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When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise?

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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#21 » by MagicFan101 » Sat May 9, 2020 5:20 pm

drsd wrote:Okeke was a boom or bust selection. Let's reasonably assume the Magic will do the same this year (that is, the Magic is not drafting for a rotational bench player).


I think you meant Okeke was a “draft and stash” pick. A “boom or bust” selection is very different.

Okeke has a very well defined and a safe skill set. The risk for bust is very low. However, the opportunity for becoming a breakout star or “booming” is very low as well.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#22 » by drsd » Sun May 10, 2020 6:53 am

MagicFan101 wrote:I think you meant Okeke was a “draft and stash” pick. A “boom or bust” selection is very different.

Okeke has a very well defined and a safe skill set. The risk for bust is very low. However, the opportunity for becoming a breakout star or “booming” is very low as well.


By "Boom" I meant that he has starter potential, and that is a value pick at #16.

By "Bust" I meant, when he was drafted, none of us knew if he would play one-minute of basketball. His injury and is recovery process could not be certain to be complete. Heck: we don't know if Okeke is no predisposed for another, different injury.

...

That said, I agree with your "stash" comment in that by red0shirting a year, the Magic might have created value whee it did not exist. But I cannot accept that; Nickeil Alexander-Walker was available and he was easily BPA for me.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#23 » by MagicFan101 » Sun May 10, 2020 2:12 pm

drsd wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:I think you meant Okeke was a “draft and stash” pick. A “boom or bust” selection is very different.

Okeke has a very well defined and a safe skill set. The risk for bust is very low. However, the opportunity for becoming a breakout star or “booming” is very low as well.


By "Boom" I meant that he has starter potential, and that is a value pick at #16.

By "Bust" I meant, when he was drafted, none of us knew if he would play one-minute of basketball. His injury and is recovery process could not be certain to be complete. Heck: we don't know if Okeke is no predisposed for another, different injury.

...

That said, I agree with your "stash" comment in that by red0shirting a year, the Magic might have created value whee it did not exist. But I cannot accept that; Nickeil Alexander-Walker was available and he was easily BPA for me.


You can mean what you wish but that is not what Boom-Or-Bust refers to.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#24 » by MagicMatic » Sun May 10, 2020 4:11 pm

drsd wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:I'm going through this 2020 draft and i have no clue who next McCullum/Gobert /Giannis are, but probability and odds tell me that this draft still has 4-5 really good players in it hidden somwhere.



Okeke was a boom or bust selection. Let's reasonably assume the Magic will do the same this year (that is, the Magic is not drafting for a rotational bench player).

So: my (reasonable) list is ...

Jaden McDaniels - length and athleticism are key tools for this management.
RJ Hampton - he for me is the highest upside or bust player in this draft.
Precious Achiuwa - another forward, but his game screams NBA starter.


That's my list.


Interesting choices.

How do you see minute distribution for McDaniels and Achiuwa? Assuming Orlando doesn’t trade AG, does that make McDaniels the third or fourth option off the bench behind AG, Isaac, Okeke, Aminu, etc.? Same question with Achiuwa, a PF/C is getting how many minutes behind Bamba, Vuc, Birch, Isaac, etc.?

Orlando doesn’t have enough starting level talent to have the luxury of drafting 3-4 string bench bigs for the foreseeable future. This pick needs to be someone that will actually be able to see the court sometime soon, OR be used in a trade scenario.

RJ Hampton would at least see the court for us, but his skill set seems very duplicative to Fultz.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#25 » by Creativetran » Sun May 10, 2020 5:02 pm

fendilim wrote:
jezzerinho wrote:On Avdija, I'd be worried that he's already more or less maxed out as a player. He's been heavily coached since he was a small kid. Maybe this is it with him...

Not saying he is the next Luka, but this was also said about Luka.

Being heavily coached isn’t bad, IMO. Because it only shows he has strong foundation. What matters is how much does he want it.

You are right, but people were also saying hes the best Euro prospect at his age, maybe every. NO ONE is saying that about Avdija
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#26 » by Creativetran » Sun May 10, 2020 5:06 pm

j-ragg wrote:
Xatticus wrote:The more I ponder the future of our organization, the less I care about whether or not the season resumes.

Last sentence stung the most to read.

This is how I felt pretty much the past decade, lol
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#27 » by j_n » Tue May 12, 2020 9:14 pm

jezzerinho wrote:On Avdija, I'd be worried that he's already more or less maxed out as a player. He's been heavily coached since he was a small kid. Maybe this is it with him...

As an Israeli have been following him for years, he has improved a lot in the last few years and even during this season, he has plenty of room for improvement, especially with his shot, which is also a big concern with him.

He has a great form and his misses don't look bad but his percentages are not good and his free throws are a big red flag, if he becomes a good shooter I can see him become a more athletic, worse shooting hedo, which is a borderline all star.

He also has a great basketball iq and he plays with a fire, though sometimes he goes off on his teammates, but yeah, unfortunately he's not in the same stratosphere as Luka as a prospect, that comparison makes no sense.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#28 » by drsd » Wed May 13, 2020 8:35 am

j_n wrote:As an Israeli have been following him for years, he has improved a lot in the last few years and even during this season, he has plenty of room for improvement, especially with his shot, which is also a big concern with him.

He has a great form and his misses don't look bad but his percentages are not good and his free throws are a big red flag, if he becomes a good shooter I can see him become a more athletic, worse shooting hedo, which is a borderline all star.


Orlando does not need another shooting project. So you sold me on a "NO" here.

..
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#29 » by Priest24 » Thu May 14, 2020 2:17 pm

Midway through next season when Caris Levert becomes tired of being a 3rd scoring option and demands a trade.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#30 » by dsg2003mach1 » Thu May 14, 2020 6:16 pm

when one falls into their lap via dumb luck the way things are going
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#31 » by Skybox » Thu May 14, 2020 8:14 pm

Priest24 wrote:Midway through next season when Caris Levert becomes tired of being a 3rd scoring option and demands a trade.


could be 4th or 4th with Dinwiddie and also Harris now playing off of 2 legit offensive superstars. Levert is a bit of a luxury/redundancy...meaning he's great but can never fully blossom in that setting. Similar to Isaac/Gordon...I like both very much but together is not optimal efficient use of their talent.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#32 » by MasterGMer » Thu May 14, 2020 8:33 pm

Skybox wrote:
Priest24 wrote:Midway through next season when Caris Levert becomes tired of being a 3rd scoring option and demands a trade.


could be 4th or 4th with Dinwiddie and also Harris now playing off of 2 legit offensive superstars. Levert is a bit of a luxury/redundancy...meaning he's great but can never fully blossom in that setting. Similar to Isaac/Gordon...I like both very much but together is not optimal efficient use of their talent.


So we trade for Levert or GSW's top 3 pick?
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#33 » by Bensational » Thu May 14, 2020 10:19 pm

Priest24 wrote:Midway through next season when Caris Levert becomes tired of being a 3rd scoring option and demands a trade.


I don't think he'll demand a trade, I think BKN will move him for another piece. That squad needs its Igoudala or Draymond. I can see a Gordon for Levert swap being on the table, for sure. Maybe Durant would prefer Vuc instead? Levert + Jordan for Vuc would also match salary wise.

Vucevic/Bamba
Isaac/Aminu
Levert/Okeke
Fournier/Ross
Fultz/MCW

or

Isaac/Bamba/Jordan
Gordon/Aminu
Fournier/Okeke
Levert/Ross
Fultz/MCW

I think Levert is loaded with talent, he's just gotta get and stay healthy. Great darkhorse investment for a potential lead player. In his splits this season, in 17 games where he played between 30-39mpg, he averaged 19fgas, scoring 25ppg, 5rpg, 5apg, on 58% TS%. He also averaged 5ftas a game, getting to the line well.

Levert definitely feels like one of the more promising options out there. Someone who could up his value a bunch with the exposure, even if he doesn't eventuate into being a franchise player.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#34 » by Tarheel » Fri May 15, 2020 10:17 am

Bensational wrote:Levert definitely feels like one of the more promising options out there. Someone who could up his value a bunch with the exposure, even if he doesn't eventuate into being a franchise player.


I agree with this - he's certainly more likely to bloom than Gordon IMO, the only knock is his health record.

A deal centered around the two would be beneficial for both sides, putting both players into a situation that is more suited to them.

Having Isaac, Fultz and LeVert as the three main options going forward would worry me slightly in that they all have chequered injury histories, but the potential is definitely there.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#35 » by Priest24 » Sat May 16, 2020 3:57 am

Skybox wrote:
Priest24 wrote:Midway through next season when Caris Levert becomes tired of being a 3rd scoring option and demands a trade.


could be 4th or 4th with Dinwiddie and also Harris now playing off of 2 legit offensive superstars. Levert is a bit of a luxury/redundancy...meaning he's great but can never fully blossom in that setting. Similar to Isaac/Gordon...I like both very much but together is not optimal efficient use of their talent.


I agree. A Levert for Gordon trade would benefit both teams in my opinion. Throw in a Fournier trade for a defensive SF/SG would be the next move in building a legit contender.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#36 » by Priest24 » Sat May 16, 2020 4:03 am

Bensational wrote:
Priest24 wrote:Midway through next season when Caris Levert becomes tired of being a 3rd scoring option and demands a trade.


I don't think he'll demand a trade, I think BKN will move him for another piece. That squad needs its Igoudala or Draymond. I can see a Gordon for Levert swap being on the table, for sure. Maybe Durant would prefer Vuc instead? Levert + Jordan for Vuc would also match salary wise.

Vucevic/Bamba
Isaac/Aminu
Levert/Okeke
Fournier/Ross
Fultz/MCW

or

Isaac/Bamba/Jordan
Gordon/Aminu
Fournier/Okeke
Levert/Ross
Fultz/MCW

I think Levert is loaded with talent, he's just gotta get and stay healthy. Great darkhorse investment for a potential lead player. In his splits this season, in 17 games where he played between 30-39mpg, he averaged 19fgas, scoring 25ppg, 5rpg, 5apg, on 58% TS%. He also averaged 5ftas a game, getting to the line well.

Levert definitely feels like one of the more promising options out there. Someone who could up his value a bunch with the exposure, even if he doesn't eventuate into being a franchise player.



Levert for Gordon is definitely what I was thinking. I'm not exactly sure how they would swing it because Leverts salary jumps next season and I believe he has 2 more years than Gordon. I'm pretty sure Brooklyn won't trade Deandre though because Durant and Kyrie wanted him there.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#37 » by Priest24 » Sat May 16, 2020 4:06 am

MasterGMer wrote:
Skybox wrote:
Priest24 wrote:Midway through next season when Caris Levert becomes tired of being a 3rd scoring option and demands a trade.


could be 4th or 4th with Dinwiddie and also Harris now playing off of 2 legit offensive superstars. Levert is a bit of a luxury/redundancy...meaning he's great but can never fully blossom in that setting. Similar to Isaac/Gordon...I like both very much but together is not optimal efficient use of their talent.


So we trade for Levert or GSW's top 3 pick?


I would rather see Levert. The only top 3 pick I would want to see in a Magic uni is Anthony Edwards but I don't believe he's going to light the league up immediately.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#38 » by j-ragg » Sat May 16, 2020 2:18 pm

Priest24 wrote:
MasterGMer wrote:
Skybox wrote:
could be 4th or 4th with Dinwiddie and also Harris now playing off of 2 legit offensive superstars. Levert is a bit of a luxury/redundancy...meaning he's great but can never fully blossom in that setting. Similar to Isaac/Gordon...I like both very much but together is not optimal efficient use of their talent.


So we trade for Levert or GSW's top 3 pick?


I would rather see Levert. The only top 3 pick I would want to see in a Magic uni is Anthony Edwards but I don't believe he's going to light the league up immediately.

In Levert we at least know what we got. Trading for a top 3 pick would probably cost more than it's worth in this draft, then we gotta hope Hammond takes the right guy which is probably worse than 50/50 odds.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#39 » by Xatticus » Sat May 16, 2020 3:49 pm

j-ragg wrote:
Priest24 wrote:
MasterGMer wrote:
So we trade for Levert or GSW's top 3 pick?


I would rather see Levert. The only top 3 pick I would want to see in a Magic uni is Anthony Edwards but I don't believe he's going to light the league up immediately.

In Levert we at least know what we got. Trading for a top 3 pick would probably cost more than it's worth in this draft, then we gotta hope Hammond takes the right guy which is probably worse than 50/50 odds.


I don't see the appeal of LeVert. He has a nice first step that he uses to get into the paint, but he doesn't draw many fouls and his finishing around the rim is lackluster. Perhaps he can use his dribble to facilitate, but you are hoping that he adds that to his game. Most of his creation is for himself and his usage far exceeds his efficiency. His AST%/TOV% is nice, but his AST%/USG% isn't.

People around here b*tch that Gordon's problem is that he wants to be a star (20.6 USG%). Wait til they get a good look at LeVert.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#40 » by T-Cat » Sat May 16, 2020 5:22 pm

If Giannis magically says he will not sign max extension and Bucks have to trade him:

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yafhnu5s

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