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When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise?

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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#41 » by Dubious Kitty » Sun May 17, 2020 3:14 pm

I don’t want to hear Covid as an excuse for the management to stay pat yet again for another off season. We’ve waited long enough. Time to make moves.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#42 » by MagicMatic » Sun May 17, 2020 6:04 pm

This FO will make every excuse to not make moves. That’s what I feared when Isaac went down, and still believe is their m.o. moving forward.

This will become glaringly apparent if they choose not to move AG heading into next season. Why? Because they obviously shopped him before the deadline and they’ll be extremely shortsighted to think they’ll get the “perfect” deal for him on an expiring contract at lesser value. Nobody is giving up real assets for a 1/half year rental if they can avoid it.

Everyone in the league knows Orlando has a logjam positionally and lacks firepower, whether that be a “go-to” guy or individual playmakers. Outside of taking a flier on Fultz, I haven’t seen this FO take a real risk in addressing this and would be shocked if they did given the circumstances.

Realistically, the chances we are stuck with this group is much higher than people are estimating. This is what happens when you paint yourself into a corner and double/triple down on players that haven’t achieved or proven anything.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#43 » by Bensational » Mon May 18, 2020 12:32 am

I wonder if the pandemic and consequential cap-crunch that will come will lead to more player movement? If the cap drops back to $90M a season or lower and teams have multiple MAX deals, it might lead to some of those guys getting moved around. I think a new amnesty clause will definitely come into play to excuse some of those deals under the new circumstances. Will the luxury tax level drop as well? That would be what determines player movement.

Can teams like GSW, Houston, Brooklyn, LAL, Boston, LAC, Portland, Toronto, etc afford to keep 2 or more MAX dudes who will make anywhere from $70-80M at least, if the cap falls that low? GSW will get hit the hardest, with 3-4 max or near max deals on the books.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#44 » by BadMofoPimp » Mon May 18, 2020 1:51 am

With a reduced salary cap, peoples expectations and wishlist may not be viable.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#45 » by pepe1991 » Mon May 18, 2020 8:16 am

Bensational wrote:I wonder if the pandemic and consequential cap-crunch that will come will lead to more player movement? If the cap drops back to $90M a season or lower and teams have multiple MAX deals, it might lead to some of those guys getting moved around. I think a new amnesty clause will definitely come into play to excuse some of those deals under the new circumstances. Will the luxury tax level drop as well? That would be what determines player movement.

Can teams like GSW, Houston, Brooklyn, LAL, Boston, LAC, Portland, Toronto, etc afford to keep 2 or more MAX dudes who will make anywhere from $70-80M at least, if the cap falls that low? GSW will get hit the hardest, with 3-4 max or near max deals on the books.


One of things i saw in conversation about how to solve cap in upcomming years, is to move cap space down to, like you said, $90M or so, but luxury tax trashold won't exist, for same reasons you pointed, so teams don't need to do fire sale.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#46 » by drsd » Mon May 18, 2020 8:53 am

Dubious Kitty wrote:I don’t want to hear Covid as an excuse for the management to stay pat yet again for another off season. We’ve waited long enough. Time to make moves.


Management must play a waiting game on Fournier and Ennis. Until their contracts are understood, there is no action.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#47 » by Tarheel » Mon May 18, 2020 11:10 am

drsd wrote:
Dubious Kitty wrote:I don’t want to hear Covid as an excuse for the management to stay pat yet again for another off season. We’ve waited long enough. Time to make moves.


Management must play a waiting game on Fournier and Ennis. Until their contracts are understood, there is no action.


Exactly. To be honest, Fournier opting in could be a blessing if the cap shrinks. Circa $17m of expiring contract could become a lot more valuable on the trade market next year. Depends on how the league manages the cap shrink and lux tax implications.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#48 » by Bensational » Mon May 18, 2020 9:29 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
Bensational wrote:I wonder if the pandemic and consequential cap-crunch that will come will lead to more player movement? If the cap drops back to $90M a season or lower and teams have multiple MAX deals, it might lead to some of those guys getting moved around. I think a new amnesty clause will definitely come into play to excuse some of those deals under the new circumstances. Will the luxury tax level drop as well? That would be what determines player movement.

Can teams like GSW, Houston, Brooklyn, LAL, Boston, LAC, Portland, Toronto, etc afford to keep 2 or more MAX dudes who will make anywhere from $70-80M at least, if the cap falls that low? GSW will get hit the hardest, with 3-4 max or near max deals on the books.


One of things i saw in conversation about how to solve cap in upcomming years, is to move cap space down to, like you said, $90M or so, but luxury tax trashold won't exist, for same reasons you pointed, so teams don't need to do fire sale.


No luxury tax on previously signed contracts would be sensible, but they'd have to keep a threshold of some sort to stop teams piling on more salary and consolidating talent again. These contracts are just the backlash from those super teams and a way to encourage them all to go to more teams on higher salaries as reward. So a firesale wouldn't bother me, either. League parity is already much better this season.
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Re: When are we going to get us a cornerstone of this franchise? 

Post#49 » by spinedoc » Wed May 27, 2020 7:24 pm

Xatticus wrote:Image

That's our cornerstone. It sucks. I know. But this is where we are. We were in prime position to land one of the premier talents in a loaded 2018 draft, but our front office couldn't appreciate the situation and they doubled down on Vucevic last summer. If you can't catch a fish when the pond is full, then you have no chance when the pond is empty.

We aren't acquiring <insert All Star here> via trade. It doesn't work that way. The only time those guys get moved is when they are damaged goods on a massive contract (e.g. Blake Griffin) or when they force their way out (e.g. Anthony Davis) and nobody is going to force their way to Orlando.

Our best bet is to pick up a talented young player that has been marginalized in a dysfunctional offensive system, but our organization would be the first one I'd look to for players that fit those criteria (Oladipo, Harris, Gordon). Until we actually fix what is broken around here, there isn't much point in acquiring such a player.

Our offense is built around a high-volume big that can't score in the post (Vucevic), a couple wings that can't read the floor (Fournier and Ross), and a point guard that can't find a passing lane (Augustin). NBA offense is the same sets run ad nauseam. You can just look at it as a flow chart. Five guys making basic reads is how good offense happens. If everyone is making the right reads, it looks great, but it really only takes one guy to **** it all up.

The best offense in NBA history was driven by a guy that has a career 3P% of .322. What makes Doncic great is that he executes those same sets better than anyone else does. He isn't a great shooter. He doesn't have a great first step. He doesn't blow by defenders. He uses the basic actions of the offense to create space and reads the reactions of the off-ball defenders to find the right passes. Hennigan was always trying to fill out the roster with shooters, but it doesn't really matter when you don't have anyone that can work their way through the flow chart correctly.

We know Fultz can't shoot. We don't know if he can run an offense because... DJ Augustin. Yes. We had our young PG with zero off-the-ball skills playing off the ball while we run things through the aging journeyman on an expiring contract because that's just how our organization does ****. We try to turn everyone we draft into PJ Tucker while we hand out fat contracts to the guys that steer us to the bottom of the league in offensive efficiency.

The more I ponder the future of our organization, the less I care about whether or not the season resumes.


Well said, and matches my depression for this team to a "T". The only place I would quibble with you is Vuc being our cornerstone. He's currently our best player, which is discouraging enough, but I believe our cornerstone or future is JI. I believe every move needs to have him centrally considered. If he or his body turns out to be our center of the future, then Vuc is gone. If he is more of a pf, then we'll deal with him that way then, which means we'll force him to play the 3 lol. I don't see any other future on our team other than ancillary pieces with huge open question marks, guys like Okeke, and rehabs like Fultz. I'm not excited about the reopening this year either. The other angle is not getting too excited to watch it get shut down in a hurry as well. As far as getting a star, only two ways that happens in Orlando. Either we get extremely lucky in the draft and able to get a homegrown one who may or may not leave anyway, or if two stars want to play together and we create cap space for that to happen. Other than those two scenarios, we are just going through the motions. It would be nice to see some sort of logical plan either way however. Management for this organization has been the toughest part of this to watch.

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