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Jonathan Isaac ran for the first time since Jan. 1 this week

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Re: Jonathan Isaac ran for the first time since Jan. 1 this week 

Post#21 » by MagicStarwipe » Sat Jun 6, 2020 3:04 pm

Def Swami wrote:So no Isaac lol

I'm fine with it. This season is pretty worthless for our franchise as far as I'm concerned. I'd rather protect the guy that has the potential to be one of the best defensive players in the league if he can stay healthy than throw him out there when we suck and have no chance of doing anything.
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Re: Jonathan Isaac ran for the first time since Jan. 1 this week 

Post#22 » by PrimeThyme » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:11 am

I've always loved everything about him as a player. Dating all the way back to his high school days when he was committed to FSU. His skill set has translated exactly as I hoped it would to the NBA level and seeing him begin to break out this year and potentially become a perennial 1st team all defense type of player was one of the few joys I had this season.

However, there has always been one caveat with Isaac, && that's his injury history. Going all the way back to his senior year in high school, first year in the NBA, and now this year as well, it's impossible to ignore. Every other year dating back to HS he has suffered a significant injury. He was in a boot for a good part of his senior year with a foot injury (I believe? Could have been ankle), suffered major ankle injuries his first year in the league (will most likely wear braces for the rest of his career similar to Steph curry), and now suffered a seemingly major knee injury.

I love him as a player, but he is not someone I'm ready to label "untouchable" or someone I'm ready to hand a big contract too. It's partly why I'm not in the let's move on from AG camp either. I need to see Isaac string a couple healthy seasons together and it would be nice to see what we have in Chuma as well.

This all applies to Fultz too. I'd prefer to let both him and Isaac hit restricted free agency in 2022 and go from there. I don't think either player with their injury history so far in the league is extension worthy in my eyes.

Maybe my opinion on that will change a year from now, but right now that's how I'm feeling. Isaac won't be back this season.
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Re: Jonathan Isaac ran for the first time since Jan. 1 this week 

Post#23 » by basketballRob » Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:43 am

I think Isaac plays. No reason to keep him out if he's healthy. They've already been overly cautious. Didn't they say 5 on 5 starts in a month? I expect him to be playing by then.

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Re: Jonathan Isaac ran for the first time since Jan. 1 this week 

Post#24 » by drsd » Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:47 pm

basketballRob wrote:I think Isaac plays. No reason to keep him out if he's healthy.


Well, Isaac is reported to have unequal leg strength and if he is not NBA-fit, then his play will not add wins. And winning is now the only point.


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Re: Jonathan Isaac ran for the first time since Jan. 1 this week 

Post#25 » by Bakomagic » Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:32 pm

drsd wrote:
basketballRob wrote:I think Isaac plays. No reason to keep him out if he's healthy.


Well, Isaac is reported to have unequal leg strength and if he is not NBA-fit, then his play will not add wins. And winning is now the only point.


..



How long does it take too remedy that, still have over a month and a half before games begin.
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Re: Jonathan Isaac ran for the first time since Jan. 1 this week 

Post#26 » by Knightro » Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:34 pm

Weltman essentially slammed the door on the possibility of Isaac returning this season.

Sounds like they've informally written him off until December.
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Re: Jonathan Isaac ran for the first time since Jan. 1 this week 

Post#27 » by RookieStar » Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:03 pm

Ok this might be an unpopular opinion/question.. but if this season resumes and we see AG gives us a good production and maybe even lead us to the 2nd round, would any o you be willing to trade JI for say like the Warrior's #1 pick?

This will cement AG as the full-time PF with Chuma the back-up Sf/PF while we use that pick to get that super-star scorer we always wanted.
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Re: Jonathan Isaac ran for the first time since Jan. 1 this week 

Post#28 » by drsd » Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:01 pm

RookieStar wrote:Ok this might be an unpopular opinion/question.. but if this season resumes and we see AG gives us a good production and maybe even lead us to the 2nd round, would any o you be willing to trade JI for say like the Warrior's #1 pick?

This will cement AG as the full-time PF with Chuma the back-up Sf/PF while we use that pick to get that super-star scorer we always wanted.



It is rumored that the Warriors are interested in Gordon, not Isaac.


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Re: Jonathan Isaac ran for the first time since Jan. 1 this week 

Post#29 » by RookieStar » Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:35 pm

drsd wrote:
RookieStar wrote:Ok this might be an unpopular opinion/question.. but if this season resumes and we see AG gives us a good production and maybe even lead us to the 2nd round, would any o you be willing to trade JI for say like the Warrior's #1 pick?

This will cement AG as the full-time PF with Chuma the back-up Sf/PF while we use that pick to get that super-star scorer we always wanted.



It is rumored that the Warriors are interested in Gordon, not Isaac.


..


Maybe.. I mean I saw other rumors that they are targeting JI but my point still stands.. JI is the one we are "theoretically" dangling to other teams.
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Re: Jonathan Isaac ran for the first time since Jan. 1 this week 

Post#30 » by drsd » Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:21 am

RookieStar wrote:
drsd wrote:

It is rumored that the Warriors are interested in Gordon, not Isaac.


..


Maybe.. I mean I saw other rumors that they are targeting JI but my point still stands.. JI is the one we are "theoretically" dangling to other teams.



If Orlando believes Anthony Edwards is a transformative guard, then swapping Isaac for him really balances the roster to (eventually) be:

Fultz/Edwards/Okeke/Gordon/Bamba. But I do not see Orlando's brass tapping on such a deal. Isaac might be untradable.


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Re: Jonathan Isaac ran for the first time since Jan. 1 this week 

Post#31 » by JBSouthpaw » Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:22 am

drsd wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
drsd wrote:

It is rumored that the Warriors are interested in Gordon, not Isaac.


..


Maybe.. I mean I saw other rumors that they are targeting JI but my point still stands.. JI is the one we are "theoretically" dangling to other teams.



If Orlando believes Anthony Edwards is a transformative guard, then swapping Isaac for him really balances the roster to (eventually) be:

Fultz/Edwards/Okeke/Gordon/Bamba. But I do not see Orlando's brass tapping on such a deal. Isaac might be untradable.

..


I absolutely love JI, who do you pay between he and Fultz? While you are still paying Vuc, AG and Ross (Evan expires)?

Someone has to go. I see AG going. You picked up the Chief to keep depth, you can't pay 3 PF 10M+
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Re: Jonathan Isaac ran for the first time since Jan. 1 this week 

Post#32 » by Knightro » Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:55 am

RookieStar wrote:Ok this might be an unpopular opinion/question.. but if this season resumes and we see AG gives us a good production and maybe even lead us to the 2nd round, would any o you be willing to trade JI for say like the Warrior's #1 pick?

This will cement AG as the full-time PF with Chuma the back-up Sf/PF while we use that pick to get that super-star scorer we always wanted.


If I was totally confident in Edwards ability to be a high-end scoring guard with the ability to also create for others at a high level like Donovan Mitchell or pre-injury Pacers Victor Oladipo or *gasp* Dwyane Wade, I'd trade Jonathan Isaac for him straight up and this is coming from someone who absolutely adores Isaac and thinks he can win Defensive Player of the Year.

Having a player who can beat the defense with the ball in his hands and create easy scoring opportunities for himself and other players on the court is the single most valuable asset you can have on an NBA roster IMO.

You look at the best players in the league right now - Giannis, LeBron, Luka, Harden, Kawhi, and many others - you can give them the ball anywhere on the court and say "make something positive happen" and they all have the ability to do it whether it's isolation, pick and roll, transition, anything.

That said, if GS thinks Edwards can become that kind of dual offensive threat, I can't imagine they'd trade him with four cost controlled years ahead of him for Isaac who is heading into restricted free agency.

Unfortunately, I also think it's very possible that Edwards is more like Dion Waiters than he is Mitchell/Oladipo/Wade.

Ultimately, I would say no to Isaac for Edwards. I'm just not confident Edwards is going to be good.

If GS wanted to do a package around Gordon for Edwards, I'd roll the dice and jump on that. But I doubt they would.
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Re: Jonathan Isaac ran for the first time since Jan. 1 this week 

Post#33 » by drsd » Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:13 pm

JBSouthpaw wrote:You picked up the Chief to keep depth, you can't pay 3 PF 10M+


I am not a fan of Aminu remaining in Magic blue. Hopefully he can be part of the package that brings in Mr. Wonderful.

(e.g. Fournier's expiring as a SnT, Aminu and Orlando's 2021 FRP in the 2021 off-season for a guard to replace Fournier, for example).

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Re: Jonathan Isaac ran for the first time since Jan. 1 this week 

Post#34 » by drsd » Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:17 pm

Knightro wrote:That said, if GS thinks Edwards can become that kind of dual offensive threat, I can't imagine they'd trade him with four cost controlled years ahead of him for Isaac who is heading into restricted free agency.


Recall when Cleveland traded the rights of overall #1 Andrew Wiggins for Kevin Love. Similar as to then, the Warriors is a Win-Now team, not a team to develop a rookie. Further, with Curry and Klay, there is no playing time for Edwards.

For me the point is that Aaron Gordon is no Kevin Love. GSW will want a lot more for the overall #1 than Gordon.

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Re: Jonathan Isaac ran for the first time since Jan. 1 this week 

Post#35 » by Bensational » Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:00 am

Knightro wrote:
RookieStar wrote:Ok this might be an unpopular opinion/question.. but if this season resumes and we see AG gives us a good production and maybe even lead us to the 2nd round, would any o you be willing to trade JI for say like the Warrior's #1 pick?

This will cement AG as the full-time PF with Chuma the back-up Sf/PF while we use that pick to get that super-star scorer we always wanted.


If I was totally confident in Edwards ability to be a high-end scoring guard with the ability to also create for others at a high level like Donovan Mitchell or pre-injury Pacers Victor Oladipo or *gasp* Dwyane Wade, I'd trade Jonathan Isaac for him straight up and this is coming from someone who absolutely adores Isaac and thinks he can win Defensive Player of the Year.

Having a player who can beat the defense with the ball in his hands and create easy scoring opportunities for himself and other players on the court is the single most valuable asset you can have on an NBA roster IMO.

You look at the best players in the league right now - Giannis, LeBron, Luka, Harden, Kawhi, and many others - you can give them the ball anywhere on the court and say "make something positive happen" and they all have the ability to do it whether it's isolation, pick and roll, transition, anything.

That said, if GS thinks Edwards can become that kind of dual offensive threat, I can't imagine they'd trade him with four cost controlled years ahead of him for Isaac who is heading into restricted free agency.

Unfortunately, I also think it's very possible that Edwards is more like Dion Waiters than he is Mitchell/Oladipo/Wade.

Ultimately, I would say no to Isaac for Edwards. I'm just not confident Edwards is going to be good.

If GS wanted to do a package around Gordon for Edwards, I'd roll the dice and jump on that. But I doubt they would.


That's the gamble on the draft isn't it. In hindsight, everyone wishes we'd given up any asking price to trade up for Luka. But plenty would have had the same reservations about the cost then, even with his pedigreed background.

We probably could have traded Oladipo and #5 to pick Porzingis on that draft night. We probably could have traded back from Bamba for SGA.

But you gotta have the conviction in that pick to do so. If it pays off you look like a winner like Cuban. If it doesn't, you look like Philly trading for Fultz and then giving up - possibly too early.
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Re: Jonathan Isaac ran for the first time since Jan. 1 this week 

Post#36 » by Knightro » Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:05 am

Bensational wrote:That's the gamble on the draft isn't it. In hindsight, everyone wishes we'd given up any asking price to trade up for Luka. But plenty would have had the same reservations about the cost then, even with his pedigreed background.

We probably could have traded Oladipo and #5 to pick Porzingis on that draft night. We probably could have traded back from Bamba for SGA.

But you gotta have the conviction in that pick to do so. If it pays off you look like a winner like Cuban. If it doesn't, you look like Philly trading for Fultz and then giving up - possibly too early.


I mean context matters a lot in these sort of cases.

Luka was the greatest European prospect in NBA draft history and was considered by many to be the best NBA prospect since LeBron. The fact that he went 3rd overall is going to end up being a Michael Jordan in 1984 caliber miscalculation by Phoenix, Sacramento and Atlanta.

Edwards isn't nearly that caliber of prospect.
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Re: Jonathan Isaac ran for the first time since Jan. 1 this week 

Post#37 » by Bensational » Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:27 pm

Knightro wrote:
Bensational wrote:That's the gamble on the draft isn't it. In hindsight, everyone wishes we'd given up any asking price to trade up for Luka. But plenty would have had the same reservations about the cost then, even with his pedigreed background.

We probably could have traded Oladipo and #5 to pick Porzingis on that draft night. We probably could have traded back from Bamba for SGA.

But you gotta have the conviction in that pick to do so. If it pays off you look like a winner like Cuban. If it doesn't, you look like Philly trading for Fultz and then giving up - possibly too early.


I mean context matters a lot in these sort of cases.

Luka was the greatest European prospect in NBA draft history and was considered by many to be the best NBA prospect since LeBron. The fact that he went 3rd overall is going to end up being a Michael Jordan in 1984 caliber miscalculation by Phoenix, Sacramento and Atlanta.

Edwards isn't nearly that caliber of prospect.


Oh yeah, but you don't always have to make a move on someone that is universally considered the top prospect (despite him going 3rd/4th). Anthony Edwards, or anyone in this draft, might be the next Tatum/Mitchell/Giannis/etc - someone not so obvious across the board, but they could have, and should have, been considered guys worth trading up for. The Clippers traded up two spots just to get SGA from Charlotte. The Jazz traded into the lottery to get Mitchell. If you've got the conviction, you gotta chase these guys and not just hope they'll fall to you.
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Re: Jonathan Isaac ran for the first time since Jan. 1 this week 

Post#38 » by Knightro » Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:23 pm

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Re: Jonathan Isaac ran for the first time since Jan. 1 this week 

Post#39 » by j-ragg » Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:47 pm

Isaac was special before this year on defense but this year is when I said damn that dude could be the best in the league on that end.

I think it was the game he shut down Porzingis.
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Re: Jonathan Isaac ran for the first time since Jan. 1 this week 

Post#40 » by AdamTheGreek » Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:33 am

There is nothing in any of Weltman's comments that says JI isn't playing this season. He's hedging. He always does that.

If Isaac comes back, and plays the last 8 regular season games, I think he'll have qualified himself game total wise to be on voted into an all-NBA defensive team (which he'd deserve, he's 2nd in bpg, and 11th in spg).

JI has super weak ankles that I would hope our athletic team the past 2 seasons have continuously worked on a program to strengthen those for him. But he needs to rely on ankle supports. He didn't wear them for the city jersey promotion at Disney Springs at the start of the season and rolled his ankle.
The knee injury he suffered January 1st isn't tied to that. It's a complete fluke combination that involved a slip, contact with a defender that exposed his knee to the awkward/prone position that led to have horrible injury. It could've been way worse.

You can't compare that to Grant Hill. G-Hill suffered surgery complications that almost killed him, and surgical procedures and technology are way more advanced now than 20 years ago.

Isaac has the 2-way potential to be our best player. Right now, Vooch is our best player. JI's made great leaps offensively, and he'll only get better. just keep wearing those ankle braces at all times and he'll get there.
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