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I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan)

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Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#101 » by fateis007 » Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:30 pm

Watching our starters shoot 15% in the first quarter and a half yesterday was enough to turn off the game and go watch some paint dry.
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Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#102 » by pepe1991 » Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:52 pm

Vast majority of superstars didn't need development from ground up, matter of fact they were super impactful from day one.
DId Cavs have elite developmental infrastructure to turn Lebron into superstar? :rofl:

That notion has to die, people were acting for years how amazing Spurs developmental is, in reality they just had good eye for already solid talent, but once they runed out of superstar potential guys ( Duncan, Parker, Leonard) they could not "develop" anybody into anything worth talking about.

Magic never positioned themselfs good enough to land superstar rookie talent. Everything after that is just wasting words. In mean time draft lottery changed so tanking become usless.
It's not hard to see that Magic ceiling is based on inability or ability of Fultz to learn how to shoot and Isaac to develop any sort of reliable offense.

In a league where Giannis, Simmons, Trae, Luka, Tatum, MItchell, Adebayo and many other stars are all 25 or younger.
Not to mention that league will still belong to Lebron, Kawhi, Davis, Harden, Durant, Curry, GIannis for another 3-4 years anyway.
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Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#103 » by OrlChamps2030 » Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:18 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Vast majority of superstars didn't need development from ground up, matter of fact they were super impactful from day one.
DId Cavs have elite developmental infrastructure to turn Lebron into superstar? :rofl:

That notion has to die, people were acting for years how amazing Spurs developmental is, in reality they just had good eye for already solid talent, but once they runed out of superstar potential guys ( Duncan, Parker, Leonard) they could not "develop" anybody into anything worth talking about.

Magic never positioned themselfs good enough to land superstar rookie talent. Everything after that is just wasting words. In mean time draft lottery changed so tanking become usless.
It's not hard to see that Magic ceiling is based on inability or ability of Fultz to learn how to shoot and Isaac to develop any sort of reliable offense.

In a league where Giannis, Simmons, Trae, Luka, Tatum, MItchell, Adebayo and many other stars are all 25 or younger.
Not to mention that league will still belong to Lebron, Kawhi, Davis, Harden, Durant, Curry, GIannis for another 3-4 years anyway.


There’s definitely some truth to this. Long gone are the days where players emerge in year 4 or 5 of their career.

The arguments can go on for days whether it’s Vuc holding Bamba back or Bamba not being good enough. But regardless of which side you stand on, Bamba playing so few minutes is not a good sign.
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Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#104 » by MagicMatic » Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:14 pm

zaymon wrote:
thelead wrote:
zaymon wrote:Yet we are starting both Isaac and Fultz. Its not that we dont play young players, we just dont play bad players. Fultz.is nowhere near Mitchell.right now, and still we inserted him into our starting lineup becouse we care more.about our future than present.

lol... because DJ is better than Fultz? Is your argument that we play Fultz over DJ because of the future?

Is your argument that Fournier is better than Mitchell and thats why Donovan would play 15 minutes from the bench ? You dont even understand your own writing. I made the case that we play young players extended minutes if they are capable of handling it. Regarding DJ vs Fultz its close between them, but DJ makes everyone better, while Fultz destroys our spacing. When you check lineups our team performs noticeably better when Dj is on the floor.


Let’s stop using the terms “better” like the metrics don’t need context in the terms of future development and necessary goals. That’s the whole argument and your kind of proving our point. It doesn’t matter that DJ puts up slightly better numbers, he’s irrelevant in the bigger picture.

Nothing ever compares to valuable in game experience against nba level competition. Idc what people believe, FO or otherwise.

Why are people acting like these mistakes of playing mediocre vets, significant minutes over young developing talent, isn’t something that takes place in Orlando? Are people rally that dense to believe drafting, contract, and roster mistakes aren’t made on a yearly basis?

You can’t possibly believe that this FO has solved even the slightest problems we had years ago under Hennigan. Fultz and Isaac are bright spots, but even they aren’t necessarily real answers to the previous questions.
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Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#105 » by npiper17 » Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:47 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
zaymon wrote:
thelead wrote:lol... because DJ is better than Fultz? Is your argument that we play Fultz over DJ because of the future?

Is your argument that Fournier is better than Mitchell and thats why Donovan would play 15 minutes from the bench ? You dont even understand your own writing. I made the case that we play young players extended minutes if they are capable of handling it. Regarding DJ vs Fultz its close between them, but DJ makes everyone better, while Fultz destroys our spacing. When you check lineups our team performs noticeably better when Dj is on the floor.


Let’s stop using the terms “better” like the metrics don’t need context in the terms of future development and necessary goals. That’s the whole argument and your kind of proving our point. It doesn’t matter that DJ puts up slightly better numbers, he’s irrelevant in the bigger picture.

Nothing ever compares to valuable in game experience against nba level competition. Idc what people believe, FO or otherwise.

Why are people acting like these mistakes of playing mediocre vets, significant minutes over young developing talent, isn’t something that takes place in Orlando? Are people rally that dense to believe drafting, contract, and roster mistakes aren’t made on a yearly basis?

You can’t possibly believe that this FO has solved even the slightest problems we had years ago under Hennigan. Fultz and Isaac are bright spots, but even they aren’t necessarily real answers to the previous questions.


This is pessimistic to say the least. I think most people would agree the team is in a better place than the last of the Hennigan years. You have a DPOY-level player that is starting to gain recognition though he admittedly needs to finish a full season and a potential future point guard in Fultz who is, essentially, finishing his rookie season.

That said, I agree that this front office are conservative to say the least and pre-pandemic, I think this summer was likely to see the greatest change in the Weltham era - Fournier was going to opt out and Gordon was going to be traded (these are my opinions of course) which would have led to the greatest amount of change one way or another. However, with Fournier likely opting in and player movement being harder to pull off with the unknowns of the salary cap and how the next couple of seasons will look revenue-wise, I am concerned that they will remain conservative in their approach.
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Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#106 » by Bensational » Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:00 pm

npiper17 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
zaymon wrote:Is your argument that Fournier is better than Mitchell and thats why Donovan would play 15 minutes from the bench ? You dont even understand your own writing. I made the case that we play young players extended minutes if they are capable of handling it. Regarding DJ vs Fultz its close between them, but DJ makes everyone better, while Fultz destroys our spacing. When you check lineups our team performs noticeably better when Dj is on the floor.


Let’s stop using the terms “better” like the metrics don’t need context in the terms of future development and necessary goals. That’s the whole argument and your kind of proving our point. It doesn’t matter that DJ puts up slightly better numbers, he’s irrelevant in the bigger picture.

Nothing ever compares to valuable in game experience against nba level competition. Idc what people believe, FO or otherwise.

Why are people acting like these mistakes of playing mediocre vets, significant minutes over young developing talent, isn’t something that takes place in Orlando? Are people rally that dense to believe drafting, contract, and roster mistakes aren’t made on a yearly basis?

You can’t possibly believe that this FO has solved even the slightest problems we had years ago under Hennigan. Fultz and Isaac are bright spots, but even they aren’t necessarily real answers to the previous questions.


This is pessimistic to say the least. I think most people would agree the team is in a better place than the last of the Hennigan years. You have a DPOY-level player that is starting to gain recognition though he admittedly needs to finish a full season and a potential future point guard in Fultz who is, essentially, finishing his rookie season.

That said, I agree that this front office are conservative to say the least and pre-pandemic, I think this summer was likely to see the greatest change in the Weltham era - Fournier was going to opt out and Gordon was going to be traded (these are my opinions of course) which would have led to the greatest amount of change one way or another. However, with Fournier likely opting in and player movement being harder to pull off with the unknowns of the salary cap and how the next couple of seasons will look revenue-wise, I am concerned that they will remain conservative in their approach.


I think the problem is the slow pace of this FO transitioning out of the team they inherited, because a lot of the changes they've made won't show up for another season or two.

They brought in a good coach to stabilise this team and get better performance out of our veterans, but they're now becoming a crutch he leans on too much.

The young players they have acquired are all big projects in some way or another. Isaac has needed to strengthen his body, and his offense is still a massive work in progress. Bamba has had to fill out his body, improve his conditioning, dramatically improve his bball IQ and develop the will to compete. Chuma is still rehabbing. Fultz is rehabbing and relearning the game.

All of them have missed substantial time in their young careers and need substantially more before they're capable of carrying a team to the playoffs without the veterans, but most of them are still 1-2 seasons away from that. But - I think once all of WeHam's pieces are ready to take over, they will have formed a solid foundation at the very least.

Pepe is right, too, that we've avoided drafting players who are capable of playing out of the gates. We don't value a skilled floor on this team. We go for projects and measurables hoping everyone can become a Giannis/Embiid/Siakam style late bloomer with the right development.
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Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#107 » by thelead » Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:03 pm

zaymon wrote:
thelead wrote:
zaymon wrote:Yet we are starting both Isaac and Fultz. Its not that we dont play young players, we just dont play bad players. Fultz.is nowhere near Mitchell.right now, and still we inserted him into our starting lineup becouse we care more.about our future than present.

lol... because DJ is better than Fultz? Is your argument that we play Fultz over DJ because of the future?

Is your argument that Fournier is better than Mitchell and thats why Donovan would play 15 minutes from the bench ? You dont even understand your own writing. I made the case that we play young players extended minutes if they are capable of handling it. Regarding DJ vs Fultz its close between them, but DJ makes everyone better, while Fultz destroys our spacing. When you check lineups our team performs noticeably better when Dj is on the floor.


If you truly feel that way why aren’t you harder about the crap players that the GM is drafting and bringing in? Fultz is so crap that he isn’t even better than a career backup... and that’s who the FO is banking on?

For the record, I’m a big fan of Fultz, was advocating for a trade before it happened and want him to play a much bigger role now.
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Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#108 » by zaymon » Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:30 pm

thelead wrote:
zaymon wrote:
thelead wrote:lol... because DJ is better than Fultz? Is your argument that we play Fultz over DJ because of the future?

Is your argument that Fournier is better than Mitchell and thats why Donovan would play 15 minutes from the bench ? You dont even understand your own writing. I made the case that we play young players extended minutes if they are capable of handling it. Regarding DJ vs Fultz its close between them, but DJ makes everyone better, while Fultz destroys our spacing. When you check lineups our team performs noticeably better when Dj is on the floor.


If you truly feel that way why aren’t you harder about the crap players that the GM is drafting and bringing in? Fultz is so crap that he isn’t even better than a career backup... and that’s who the FO is banking on?

For the record, I’m a big fan of Fultz, was advocating for a trade before it happened and want him to play a much bigger role now.

I dont think they are crap. Weltman brings high ceiling players who need time to mature and develop. He got rid of crap players as soon as he could ( Payton, Hezonja). Fultz hasnt played for 2 years and didnt shoot 3s late into offseason. Him being close to proven veteran like dj even without his shot is a compliment not insult.
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