ImageImageImageImage

I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan)

Moderators: UCFJayBird, Howard Mass, UCF, ChosenSavior, Knightro, SOUL, Def Swami

basketballRob
General Manager
Posts: 8,948
And1: 3,241
Joined: May 05, 2014
     

Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#21 » by basketballRob » Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:27 am

PrimeThyme wrote:
KillMonger wrote:For me personally this is my biggest problem with this organization.....they bring these kids in and they put a leash AND training wheels on them.....trial by fire....sink or swim....we baby these kids so much i kinda think we're stunting growth instead of fostering it....i mean Bol Bol played 32 minutes in his DEBUT but bamba played 6 minutes today...is Bol Bol's cardio that much better than bamba's with Bol coming off an injury? and bamba iirc being injury free? idk man but i know it's going to be the same thing with fultz and the same with issac

i feel we did the same thing to AG as well, we tried to make him fit into a role more instead of playing to his strengths and just letting him play more free earlier in his career maybe that would've resulted in more growth.....who really knows though? i just hope this front office hits pay dirt sooner rather than later, i'll never give up on the team but it's getting harder and harder every year no cap.....

There is absolutely something to this imo, particularly with how Bamba has been handled. I feel like the organization and us as fans have just been making excuses for him at every step of the way. I mean this isn't the first time we've tried to justify him playing low minutes due to cardio.

It just seems like we are scared to see if this kid can actually play or not. There is really no excuse why in year two after only playing 16 mpg his rookie year that his minutes would trend down to 14 mpg this season. We keep the leash so incredibly tight on him to the point where if he does play good or he does play bad it's in such limited stretches due to the low minutes he plays that it really doesn't make a difference one way or the other.

I mean there is no doubt that they are scared to let go of the reigns on Fultz/Issac as well, but at least they get enough minutes to develop as players and have seen their roles incrementally increase. Bamba is an entirely different story.
Bamba had a stress fracture and was unable to practice during last summer. That was a huge set back. I guess he has two more years, either him, Isaac, Okeke, and Fultz can stay healthy or they can't. All of them have missed valuable time in their development.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app
basketballRob
General Manager
Posts: 8,948
And1: 3,241
Joined: May 05, 2014
     

Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#22 » by basketballRob » Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:28 am

zaymon wrote:
Bakomagic wrote:P.s. I have no idea how AG should factor in all of this haha.


Trade asset.
He's our only player with value. No one wants Fournier or Vuc.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
BadMofoPimp
RealGM
Posts: 46,176
And1: 10,833
Joined: Oct 12, 2003
Location: In the Paint

Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#23 » by BadMofoPimp » Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:37 am

TheGlyde wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:Magic ain't gonna win any superstar in the draft. They need to find diamonds in the rough aka Billups/Rip/Prince/Wallaces etc. Solid role players who excel in their roles.


Those bloody 2004 Pistons eh..

The exception that proves the rule.

Not since the 1979 Seattle Supersonics have we seen a team that gave desperate fanbases as many glimpses of hope that they could somehow win a title without a hall of fame superstar in their prime.


I would say Ben was a superstar defender and rebounder. Billups was a 5 time all star and may end up a hall of famer. Rip was a 3 time all-star. Sheed was a 4 time all-star.
Image

Provin Ya'll Wrong!!!
User avatar
KillMonger
RealGM
Posts: 10,427
And1: 4,565
Joined: Oct 13, 2012
     

Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#24 » by KillMonger » Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:42 am

basketballRob wrote:
zaymon wrote:
Bakomagic wrote:P.s. I have no idea how AG should factor in all of this haha.


Trade asset.
He's our only player with value. No one wants Fournier or Vuc.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

here we go, this comment here is how i know basketball is coming back :lol: :lol:
Image

FREE AG...... FREE HEZONJA....... FREE AG...... FREE HEZONJA
User avatar
TheGlyde
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 12,559
And1: 340
Joined: Mar 01, 2005
Location: Retire #25!
 

Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#25 » by TheGlyde » Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:07 am

BadMofoPimp wrote:
TheGlyde wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:Magic ain't gonna win any superstar in the draft. They need to find diamonds in the rough aka Billups/Rip/Prince/Wallaces etc. Solid role players who excel in their roles.


Those bloody 2004 Pistons eh..

The exception that proves the rule.

Not since the 1979 Seattle Supersonics have we seen a team that gave desperate fanbases as many glimpses of hope that they could somehow win a title without a hall of fame superstar in their prime.


I would say Ben was a superstar defender and rebounder. Billups was a 5 time all star and may end up a hall of famer. Rip was a 3 time all-star. Sheed was a 4 time all-star.


I agree with all of that (most are just listing facts so thats not up for debate) except I don't agree that Ben was a superstar.

He was an elite defender, all star, multiple DPOY etc, but he wasn't a superstar in my definition of the word.

Orlando has had all stars, great defenders, rebounders... they don't equal a title, and none of those 4 Pistons without the other 3 (+Rasheed Wallace and a HOF coach) wins a title.

Every single other NBA Champion in the last 40 years (some Champions have multiple) had a transcendent superstar player whom their hall of fame status is not open to debate.
Orlando Magic Historian
Skin
RealGM
Posts: 15,169
And1: 7,018
Joined: Jul 03, 2009
   

Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#26 » by Skin » Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:17 am

This is still Henny's team.

WeHam came in and gave us the Otis speech... "I like this team".

They've been taking baby steps to reshape this team in their vision, but their patience from fans is at a boiling point. They need to be aggressive on the trade front once and for all!!! MORPH THIS TEAM!!!
Fultz, _____, Okeke, Isaac, Bamba. LET'S GO!
User avatar
drsd
RealGM
Posts: 27,935
And1: 4,438
Joined: Mar 16, 2003
     

Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#27 » by drsd » Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:27 am

Skin wrote:This is still Henny's team.

WeHam came in and gave us the Otis speech... "I like this team".

They've been taking baby steps to reshape this team in their vision, but their patience from fans is at a boiling point. They need to be aggressive on the trade front once and for all!!! MORPH THIS TEAM!!!


The Fournier decision and a potential Gordon trade would "MORPH THIS TEAM". But I think the team identity itself changes in the 2021/22 off-season.


..
User avatar
bigdogdylan5
Starter
Posts: 2,388
And1: 998
Joined: May 13, 2011

Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#28 » by bigdogdylan5 » Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:18 pm

Skin wrote:This is still Henny's team.

WeHam came in and gave us the Otis speech... "I like this team".

They've been taking baby steps to reshape this team in their vision, but their patience from fans is at a boiling point. They need to be aggressive on the trade front once and for all!!! MORPH THIS TEAM!!!

You have to be careful Morphing this team. Forcing a trade is how we trade for and sign ibaka and Biz respectively
Magic BaT
Garrity's Gang
Owners: bigdogdylan5
PG Rod Strickland
SG Jason Richardson
SF Doug Christie
PF Al Harrington
C Shawn Kemp
Sixth man: Kenny Smith
Coach: Rick Carlisle
User avatar
j-ragg
RealGM
Posts: 17,583
And1: 10,927
Joined: Mar 31, 2005
Location: the don't re-sign Hedo bandwagon.
   

Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#29 » by j-ragg » Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:22 pm

drsd wrote:
Skin wrote:This is still Henny's team.

WeHam came in and gave us the Otis speech... "I like this team".

They've been taking baby steps to reshape this team in their vision, but their patience from fans is at a boiling point. They need to be aggressive on the trade front once and for all!!! MORPH THIS TEAM!!!


The Fournier decision and a potential Gordon trade would "MORPH THIS TEAM". But I think the team identity itself changes in the 2021/22 off-season.


..

Just crazy to me it’d take 5 years after they took over to “change the identity” (not saying you’re wrong). All that expensive experience for not much production.
BadMofoPimp wrote:Durant thinks Vooch is one of the Best Centers in the NBA. I will take his word over a couch-GM yelling at a TV.
User avatar
BadMofoPimp
RealGM
Posts: 46,176
And1: 10,833
Joined: Oct 12, 2003
Location: In the Paint

Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#30 » by BadMofoPimp » Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:58 pm

TheGlyde wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
TheGlyde wrote:
Those bloody 2004 Pistons eh..

The exception that proves the rule.

Not since the 1979 Seattle Supersonics have we seen a team that gave desperate fanbases as many glimpses of hope that they could somehow win a title without a hall of fame superstar in their prime.


I would say Ben was a superstar defender and rebounder. Billups was a 5 time all star and may end up a hall of famer. Rip was a 3 time all-star. Sheed was a 4 time all-star.


I agree with all of that (most are just listing facts so thats not up for debate) except I don't agree that Ben was a superstar.

He was an elite defender, all star, multiple DPOY etc, but he wasn't a superstar in my definition of the word.

Orlando has had all stars, great defenders, rebounders... they don't equal a title, and none of those 4 Pistons without the other 3 (+Rasheed Wallace and a HOF coach) wins a title.

Every single other NBA Champion in the last 40 years (some Champions have multiple) had a transcendent superstar player whom their hall of fame status is not open to debate.


Having Elite or Superstar talent never guarantees success. It is with the right group of players in a system that works to their strengths that pushes teams over the edge. Magic need more of that instead of just praying for a superstar miraculously land in their lap to carry them there. Because, even if they get one, they probably won't be any better than a middle of the road team aka McGrady years.
Image

Provin Ya'll Wrong!!!
Knightro
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 7,811
And1: 8,642
Joined: Dec 18, 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
 

Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#31 » by Knightro » Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:18 pm

The unexpected success of the 2018-2019 Magic completely changed the path of the organization and unfortunately it doesn't appear that's going to be in a good way in the long run.

But it's wasn't necessarily a black and white decision.

I can't imagine trying to tell Steve Clifford, his coaching staff and all the players who played so hard last year "hey guys, we know you increased your win total by 17 games, but we've decided to play the tanking game again without giving you the opportunity to build off what you accomplished."

Now obviously with benefit of hindsight (which is always 20/20), the Magic wouldn't have locked themselves into a team with such a low ceiling. But in the moment, that would have been a difficult sell.
User avatar
thelead
RealGM
Posts: 25,190
And1: 12,955
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
 

Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#32 » by thelead » Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:26 pm

bigdogdylan5 wrote:
Skin wrote:This is still Henny's team.

WeHam came in and gave us the Otis speech... "I like this team".

They've been taking baby steps to reshape this team in their vision, but their patience from fans is at a boiling point. They need to be aggressive on the trade front once and for all!!! MORPH THIS TEAM!!!

You have to be careful Morphing this team. Forcing a trade is how we trade for and sign ibaka and Biz respectively

Meh. Then you suck enough to draft someone like Isaac. Worth the risk as long as we’re not trading young players.
Image
J the Drafter
Starter
Posts: 2,018
And1: 213
Joined: Sep 17, 2009

Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#33 » by J the Drafter » Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:43 pm

I think the only sound way to improve a team is by degrees. If you add Isaac, then Bamba, then Fultz year after year after year, you’ve made the team better year after year after year—if not immediately, then in the future. The continued presence of Fournier and Vucevic has no bearing on this improvement; the young players will refine their games in team and individual practices, and will be awarded playing time based on the needs of the team.

Now, obviously, trades can also make a team better, provided good trades are available. Gambling on a trade can put you in a worse position, especially if the trade is made in desperation.
Remember when Kobe elbowed Jameer in the chin so hard Jameer was knocked down and sent skidding across the floor?
Pepperidge Farm remembers.*

*Futurama
User avatar
bigdogdylan5
Starter
Posts: 2,388
And1: 998
Joined: May 13, 2011

Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#34 » by bigdogdylan5 » Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:18 pm

thelead wrote:
bigdogdylan5 wrote:
Skin wrote:This is still Henny's team.

WeHam came in and gave us the Otis speech... "I like this team".

They've been taking baby steps to reshape this team in their vision, but their patience from fans is at a boiling point. They need to be aggressive on the trade front once and for all!!! MORPH THIS TEAM!!!

You have to be careful Morphing this team. Forcing a trade is how we trade for and sign ibaka and Biz respectively

Meh. Then you suck enough to draft someone like Isaac. Worth the risk as long as we’re not trading young players.

Oladipo was young. If you want to trade Vuc or Fournier(if he opts in) I couldn’t be more on board for reasonable value but when we start talking AG I am super nervous about that.
Magic BaT
Garrity's Gang
Owners: bigdogdylan5
PG Rod Strickland
SG Jason Richardson
SF Doug Christie
PF Al Harrington
C Shawn Kemp
Sixth man: Kenny Smith
Coach: Rick Carlisle
User avatar
bigdogdylan5
Starter
Posts: 2,388
And1: 998
Joined: May 13, 2011

Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#35 » by bigdogdylan5 » Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:29 pm

I have no issue with minute restrictions on Bamba. I don’t believe it’s coddling he just put on a bunch of needed weight. You over stress the body without him adapting to his new playing weight he will get hurt. This front office ethos is patience it’s not always easy to watch but hopefully the youth keeps getting better.
Magic BaT
Garrity's Gang
Owners: bigdogdylan5
PG Rod Strickland
SG Jason Richardson
SF Doug Christie
PF Al Harrington
C Shawn Kemp
Sixth man: Kenny Smith
Coach: Rick Carlisle
User avatar
Furinkazan
Head Coach
Posts: 7,186
And1: 3,139
Joined: May 11, 2005
       

Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#36 » by Furinkazan » Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:32 pm

drsd wrote:
Skin wrote:This is still Henny's team.

WeHam came in and gave us the Otis speech... "I like this team".

They've been taking baby steps to reshape this team in their vision, but their patience from fans is at a boiling point. They need to be aggressive on the trade front once and for all!!! MORPH THIS TEAM!!!


The Fournier decision and a potential Gordon trade would "MORPH THIS TEAM". But I think the team identity itself changes in the 2021/22 off-season.


..

Then they will keep losing fans and money in the process and in this NWO reality or virus reality or whatever you want to call it...
it may be a nail in the coffin.
I never was more uninterested in this team or NBA in that matter than I am right now.
I downloaded the game and deleted it after 5 mins.I coudnt bear to watch this bs.
Skin
RealGM
Posts: 15,169
And1: 7,018
Joined: Jul 03, 2009
   

Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#37 » by Skin » Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:28 pm

bigdogdylan5 wrote:
Skin wrote:This is still Henny's team.

WeHam came in and gave us the Otis speech... "I like this team".

They've been taking baby steps to reshape this team in their vision, but their patience from fans is at a boiling point. They need to be aggressive on the trade front once and for all!!! MORPH THIS TEAM!!!

You have to be careful Morphing this team. Forcing a trade is how we trade for and sign ibaka and Biz respectively

Agreed they have to be careful, but still get something done. Show us why you're the GM that gets paid millions.

Meanwhile Bol Bol putting up stat lines that Bamba never has. 2nd round, 44th pick. FML.
Fultz, _____, Okeke, Isaac, Bamba. LET'S GO!
Skin
RealGM
Posts: 15,169
And1: 7,018
Joined: Jul 03, 2009
   

Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#38 » by Skin » Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:00 pm

J the Drafter wrote:I think the only sound way to improve a team is by degrees. If you add Isaac, then Bamba, then Fultz year after year after year, you’ve made the team better year after year after year—if not immediately, then in the future. The continued presence of Fournier and Vucevic has no bearing on this improvement; the young players will refine their games in team and individual practices, and will be awarded playing time based on the needs of the team.

Now, obviously, trades can also make a team better, provided good trades are available. Gambling on a trade can put you in a worse position, especially if the trade is made in desperation.

Well it's not the only way, but it's definitely the way we're trying it. Why not trade Vuc, Fournier for draft picks or players you missed out on in the draft that you liked (at positions we need help at)? I'm not trying to suggest trades for more PFs and Cs... but bring us some wings. Keeping them just so you can maintain mediocrity and stifle playing time for your young guys is frustrating.
Fultz, _____, Okeke, Isaac, Bamba. LET'S GO!
EAS Law
Analyst
Posts: 3,393
And1: 3,394
Joined: Nov 01, 2015
     

Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#39 » by EAS Law » Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:05 pm

I have minimal interest in the NBA generally at this point. I check in on the Magic occasionally as well, but to be honest, I feel so detached as a “fan” from this team that it doesn’t even bother me anymore if people say awful things about the franchise.
User avatar
Xatticus
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,206
And1: 4,341
Joined: Feb 18, 2016
Location: the land of the blind
         

Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#40 » by Xatticus » Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:11 pm

Knightro wrote:The unexpected success of the 2018-2019 Magic completely changed the path of the organization and unfortunately it doesn't appear that's going to be in a good way in the long run.

But it's wasn't necessarily a black and white decision.

I can't imagine trying to tell Steve Clifford, his coaching staff and all the players who played so hard last year "hey guys, we know you increased your win total by 17 games, but we've decided to play the tanking game again without giving you the opportunity to build off what you accomplished."

Now obviously with benefit of hindsight (which is always 20/20), the Magic wouldn't have locked themselves into a team with such a low ceiling. But in the moment, that would have been a difficult sell.


This is what Gabriel did with the heart-and-hustle squad. He hired Rivers the year before and proceeded to strip the roster down in an effort to clear cap space and tank. We didn't get the high lottery pick because the team far exceeded expectations, but Gabriel didn't abandon his plans due to the unexpected success.

The lottery has always been an artificial floor. No matter how much you screw up, as long as you don't trade away your own picks, there is a built-in mechanism that prevents you from slipping into despair. There is no relegation and you get higher draft choices if everything goes pear-shaped. This should be liberating for GMs that are secure enough in their position to survive a dark period. It should afford them some measure of confidence to commit to the unknown. When Gabriel's plan imploded, for various reasons, we ended up back at the top of the lottery and the ashes of the McGrady era became the foundation of the team that ultimately reached the finals.

Look at Atlanta. Schlenk tore it all down and gave his coach a roster where he was forced to play the prospects. Some have thrived while others haven't, but at least they have learned a lot about what they have. They've continued to collect high-value assets along the way. They have their offensive engine and it will be so easy for them to augment their core and charge up the standings in the coming years. How far will they go? Who knows right now, but at least they have reason for optimism.

We've taken a completely different path. We've been reactionary. There might be some general principles involved, but there is no plan. They had years of data and film to pore over, but they let a late-season surge last year alter everything and proceeded to double down on what we know doesn't work. They hired a coach that tries to grind out wins by sucking the variance out of the game and they have placated him by stacking the roster with low-ceiling, try-hard journeymen that he doesn't have to teach. Now we are the Charlotte Magic.

It's just so difficult to be optimistic about this roster.
"Xatticus has always been, in my humble opinion best poster here. Should write articles or something."
-pepe1991

Return to Orlando Magic