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I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan)

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Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#61 » by zaymon » Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:28 am

Rainwater wrote:
zaymon wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
It is hard to believe they are building around the young guys when most of the play calls are ran for Vuc, Evan, Ross, and AG. Nothing indicates they moving away from those four in terms play calls or play style. How will the young guys progress if they aren't getting the ball?

I believe a free agent knows how a NBA life works. And that is just not in the NBA but sports in general. Teams go through rebuilds, when something runs it's course vets leave and young replace them. Just how it works. If a futurefree agent holds that against a team that would just be absurd.

And I would rather go into a rebuild unsure what will happen but hopeful something will materialize at some point in terms of a draft prospect or free agent. You are right some rebuilds may take forever but some others are relatively short. Regardless, either option is better since there might be hope with this current squad you know you are watching a borderline treadmill playoff team year in and year out.

Everything indicates we want to play through Fultz in the future. If we wanted to compete with Vucevic we would have signed a starting pg like Rubio to play with him and instead we opted to start with 21 y.o still not healthy Markelle. If that is not a prove i dont know what is. He is not ready yet to shoulder heavier load, almost every game he took over he came down with cramps.
Isaac's usage is going up every year, if we trade Gordon there will be even more plays run for him.


-There is a huge difference between "we want to" and "we are".

-Doubt the magic could have afford Rubio.

-Fultz is getting starting mins if he was injured he wouldn't be playing. Don't blame an injury for something the coaches are deciding to do.

-And the mere fact you said trade AG to give Issac more usage is proving my point why AG, Vuc, Evan and Ross must go. Let the young guys play.

To be completely honest I really don't think the Magic even know what they are doing. At some point you are going to have to realize you must go all in or or just rebuild, this halfway thing is not going to work.

We are not playing everything through Fultz becouse he is not ready to. He is not injured but he is not fully rehabilitated either. Playing him as a 1st option right away would be a mistake. He barely has energy to play in his current role.
We decided to invest into Fultz, his salary is why we couldnt afford Rubio.
Gordon is the only veteran who doesnt fit with the rest of young players. Bamba is 1-2 years away from being a starter if ever.
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Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#62 » by Skin » Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:47 am

J the Drafter wrote:
Skin wrote:Vuc signed a brand new 4 year deal. Are you thinking that won't be a road block for Bamba to emerge or that Vuc won't be here for the whole term of his deal?

I don’t think Vuc’s presence will stop Bamba from getting better. Bamba is going to improve through practices and film sessions, with games being a place to demonstrate improvements.

Evan is not stopping anyone atm because he already was the reason why we got rid of Oladipo. Yay. :banghead:

I’ve always thought we got rid of Victor because Rich wanted a power forward—maybe even Ibaka specifically—and Hennigan determined that Victor was the best way to get one. There was no indication the Magic had to pick and choose between Evan and Victor.

If you don't think that Vuc is in the way of Bamba, then what year does Bamba become a starter?

2018-19 - Bamba Year 1 - No

2019-20 - Bamba Year 2 / Vucevic's New Contract Year 1 - No

2020-21 - Bamba Year 3 / Vucevic's New Contract Year 2 - Not likely. Bamba won't unseat Vuc in the 2nd year of his $100M deal.

2021-22 - Bamba Year 4 (RFA) / Vucevic's New Contract Year 3 - Will Bamba become a starter? OR Will he reach RFA as a player who we are still unsure of? Not knowing who he is, will we low ball him or overpay? Or will he accept an offer from another team? Will we match not knowing what he looks like as a starter? Or will we not match? Or will Bamba do a 1 year deal so he can enter FA in 2023 as an UFA and finally go to a place that appreciates him? All of these questions end up with a bad answer if Bamba is not starting in his 4th season in the league.

2022-23 - Bamba Year 5 (UFA) / Vucevic's New Contract Year 4 - If Bamba is still here, is this the year he becomes a starter?

Maybe Never??? How much egg on WeHam's face would that be?
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Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#63 » by J the Drafter » Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:32 pm

Rainwater wrote:It is hard to believe they are building around the young guys when most of the play calls are ran for Vuc, Evan, Ross, and AG. Nothing indicates they moving away from those four in terms play calls or play style. How will the young guys progress if they aren't getting the ball?

The young guys will progress by working on their games. That’s how all players get better, not by getting more touches. The team is transitioning from old players to young players. As time goes by, old players will lose their effectiveness and young players will improve their games. Ergo, we’re counting on our youth for our future. Jettisoning our vets won’t expedite the team’s development. It’d just mean we had no scorers, and we’d...be looking for older scorers to hold down the fort until our youth came into their own.
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Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#64 » by J the Drafter » Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:44 pm

Skin wrote:
J the Drafter wrote:
Skin wrote:Vuc signed a brand new 4 year deal. Are you thinking that won't be a road block for Bamba to emerge or that Vuc won't be here for the whole term of his deal?

I don’t think Vuc’s presence will stop Bamba from getting better. Bamba is going to improve through practices and film sessions, with games being a place to demonstrate improvements.

Evan is not stopping anyone atm because he already was the reason why we got rid of Oladipo. Yay. :banghead:

I’ve always thought we got rid of Victor because Rich wanted a power forward—maybe even Ibaka specifically—and Hennigan determined that Victor was the best way to get one. There was no indication the Magic had to pick and choose between Evan and Victor.

If you don't think that Vuc is in the way of Bamba, then what year does Bamba become a starter?

2018-19 - Bamba Year 1 - No

2019-20 - Bamba Year 2 / Vucevic's New Contract Year 1 - No

2020-21 - Bamba Year 3 / Vucevic's New Contract Year 2 - Not likely. Bamba won't unseat Vuc in the 2nd year of his $100M deal.

2021-22 - Bamba Year 4 (RFA) / Vucevic's New Contract Year 3 - Will Bamba become a starter? OR Will he reach RFA as a player who we are still unsure of? Not knowing who he is, will we low ball him or overpay? Or will he accept an offer from another team? Will we match not knowing what he looks like as a starter? Or will we not match? Or will Bamba do a 1 year deal so he can enter FA in 2023 as an UFA and finally go to a place that appreciates him? All of these questions end up with a bad answer if Bamba is not starting in his 4th season in the league.

2022-23 - Bamba Year 5 (UFA) / Vucevic's New Contract Year 4 - If Bamba is still here, is this the year he becomes a starter?

Maybe Never??? How much egg on WeHam's face would that be?

He’ll start when he’s better than Vuc. Time favors Mo. Given how undeveloped Mo is physically, we were going to need an interim center anyway.
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Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#65 » by pepe1991 » Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:58 pm

Skin wrote:
J the Drafter wrote:
Skin wrote:Vuc signed a brand new 4 year deal. Are you thinking that won't be a road block for Bamba to emerge or that Vuc won't be here for the whole term of his deal?

I don’t think Vuc’s presence will stop Bamba from getting better. Bamba is going to improve through practices and film sessions, with games being a place to demonstrate improvements.

Evan is not stopping anyone atm because he already was the reason why we got rid of Oladipo. Yay. :banghead:

I’ve always thought we got rid of Victor because Rich wanted a power forward—maybe even Ibaka specifically—and Hennigan determined that Victor was the best way to get one. There was no indication the Magic had to pick and choose between Evan and Victor.

If you don't think that Vuc is in the way of Bamba, then what year does Bamba become a starter?

2018-19 - Bamba Year 1 - No

2019-20 - Bamba Year 2 / Vucevic's New Contract Year 1 - No

2020-21 - Bamba Year 3 / Vucevic's New Contract Year 2 - Not likely. Bamba won't unseat Vuc in the 2nd year of his $100M deal.

2021-22 - Bamba Year 4 (RFA) / Vucevic's New Contract Year 3 - Will Bamba become a starter? OR Will he reach RFA as a player who we are still unsure of? Not knowing who he is, will we low ball him or overpay? Or will he accept an offer from another team? Will we match not knowing what he looks like as a starter? Or will we not match? Or will Bamba do a 1 year deal so he can enter FA in 2023 as an UFA and finally go to a place that appreciates him? All of these questions end up with a bad answer if Bamba is not starting in his 4th season in the league.

2022-23 - Bamba Year 5 (UFA) / Vucevic's New Contract Year 4 - If Bamba is still here, is this the year he becomes a starter?

Maybe Never??? How much egg on WeHam's face would that be?


Only path for Bamba to become UFA is if he sucks so badly that team has no interest in re-signing him after 3 years
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Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#66 » by zaymon » Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:28 pm

I dont know since when its Vucevic fault that Bamba is not that good. Weltman was right resigning Vuc becouse Bamba is nowhere ready with respect to body and skill.
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Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#67 » by j-ragg » Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:44 pm

Bamba should just start taking shots no matter what. Score 17 ppg on 16 shots per game. They might just call you the best offensive center in the game for it.
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Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#68 » by Skin » Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:43 pm

J the Drafter wrote:
Skin wrote:
J the Drafter wrote:I don’t think Vuc’s presence will stop Bamba from getting better. Bamba is going to improve through practices and film sessions, with games being a place to demonstrate improvements.


I’ve always thought we got rid of Victor because Rich wanted a power forward—maybe even Ibaka specifically—and Hennigan determined that Victor was the best way to get one. There was no indication the Magic had to pick and choose between Evan and Victor.

If you don't think that Vuc is in the way of Bamba, then what year does Bamba become a starter?

2018-19 - Bamba Year 1 - No

2019-20 - Bamba Year 2 / Vucevic's New Contract Year 1 - No

2020-21 - Bamba Year 3 / Vucevic's New Contract Year 2 - Not likely. Bamba won't unseat Vuc in the 2nd year of his $100M deal.

2021-22 - Bamba Year 4 (RFA) / Vucevic's New Contract Year 3 - Will Bamba become a starter? OR Will he reach RFA as a player who we are still unsure of? Not knowing who he is, will we low ball him or overpay? Or will he accept an offer from another team? Will we match not knowing what he looks like as a starter? Or will we not match? Or will Bamba do a 1 year deal so he can enter FA in 2023 as an UFA and finally go to a place that appreciates him? All of these questions end up with a bad answer if Bamba is not starting in his 4th season in the league.

2022-23 - Bamba Year 5 (UFA) / Vucevic's New Contract Year 4 - If Bamba is still here, is this the year he becomes a starter?

Maybe Never??? How much egg on WeHam's face would that be?

He’ll start when he’s better than Vuc. Time favors Mo. Given how undeveloped Mo is physically, we were going to need an interim center anyway.

Do you think the Magic made the wrong choice when they drafted him?

Was it smart to draft a player who you can't even guess when he would end up being ready to be a starter during his entire rookie contract?

Was this a move to give Magic fans hope for a better future?
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Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#69 » by Skin » Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:56 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
Skin wrote:
J the Drafter wrote:I don’t think Vuc’s presence will stop Bamba from getting better. Bamba is going to improve through practices and film sessions, with games being a place to demonstrate improvements.


I’ve always thought we got rid of Victor because Rich wanted a power forward—maybe even Ibaka specifically—and Hennigan determined that Victor was the best way to get one. There was no indication the Magic had to pick and choose between Evan and Victor.

If you don't think that Vuc is in the way of Bamba, then what year does Bamba become a starter?

2018-19 - Bamba Year 1 - No

2019-20 - Bamba Year 2 / Vucevic's New Contract Year 1 - No

2020-21 - Bamba Year 3 / Vucevic's New Contract Year 2 - Not likely. Bamba won't unseat Vuc in the 2nd year of his $100M deal.

2021-22 - Bamba Year 4 (RFA) / Vucevic's New Contract Year 3 - Will Bamba become a starter? OR Will he reach RFA as a player who we are still unsure of? Not knowing who he is, will we low ball him or overpay? Or will he accept an offer from another team? Will we match not knowing what he looks like as a starter? Or will we not match? Or will Bamba do a 1 year deal so he can enter FA in 2023 as an UFA and finally go to a place that appreciates him? All of these questions end up with a bad answer if Bamba is not starting in his 4th season in the league.

2022-23 - Bamba Year 5 (UFA) / Vucevic's New Contract Year 4 - If Bamba is still here, is this the year he becomes a starter?

Maybe Never??? How much egg on WeHam's face would that be?


Only path for Bamba to become UFA is if he sucks so badly that team has no interest in re-signing him after 3 years

Or he could feel disrespected by the way the team has treated him after 4 years and try to get out of here by signing a 1 year contract that would allow him to be a UFA the following summer.

I mean that is historically what we do here. Develop players who go on to have much better careers outside of Orlando.
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Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#70 » by MagicMatic » Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:58 pm

This team is boring.

Fultz and Isaac are interesting players to watch develop. However, neither of them I would say excite me with their play individually.

Orlando relies on the same vet players to grind out uninspired basketball. There are also players with opposing skill sets that just don’t fit together well at all with Clifford’s ideology.

The magic haven’t acquired a go-to scorer via draft or free agency in forever and their draft strategy (record) doesn’t prove that to be their priority.

Ownership also expects wins every season despite hindering any long term goal or plan. This team has zero identity.

Those are the reasons this team isn’t interesting or watchable.
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Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#71 » by pepe1991 » Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:00 pm

Skin wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Skin wrote:If you don't think that Vuc is in the way of Bamba, then what year does Bamba become a starter?

2018-19 - Bamba Year 1 - No

2019-20 - Bamba Year 2 / Vucevic's New Contract Year 1 - No

2020-21 - Bamba Year 3 / Vucevic's New Contract Year 2 - Not likely. Bamba won't unseat Vuc in the 2nd year of his $100M deal.

2021-22 - Bamba Year 4 (RFA) / Vucevic's New Contract Year 3 - Will Bamba become a starter? OR Will he reach RFA as a player who we are still unsure of? Not knowing who he is, will we low ball him or overpay? Or will he accept an offer from another team? Will we match not knowing what he looks like as a starter? Or will we not match? Or will Bamba do a 1 year deal so he can enter FA in 2023 as an UFA and finally go to a place that appreciates him? All of these questions end up with a bad answer if Bamba is not starting in his 4th season in the league.

2022-23 - Bamba Year 5 (UFA) / Vucevic's New Contract Year 4 - If Bamba is still here, is this the year he becomes a starter?

Maybe Never??? How much egg on WeHam's face would that be?


Only path for Bamba to become UFA is if he sucks so badly that team has no interest in re-signing him after 3 years

Or he could feel disrespected by the way the team has treated him after 4 years and try to get out of here by signing a 1 year contract that would allow him to be a UFA the following summer.

I mean that is historically what we do here. Develop players who go on to have much better careers outside of Orlando.


Google "Nerlens Noel turns down 4 years contract" and you'll find out not a single smart person in the world , other than Noel and his stupid menager EEVEEEER did that.
He refuses to sign extension and gets buried on the bench, or gets hurt, odds for him earning more than extension after that year are zero.
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Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#72 » by Rainwater » Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:01 pm

J the Drafter wrote:
Rainwater wrote:It is hard to believe they are building around the young guys when most of the play calls are ran for Vuc, Evan, Ross, and AG. Nothing indicates they moving away from those four in terms play calls or play style. How will the young guys progress if they aren't getting the ball?

The young guys will progress by working on their games. That’s how all players get better, not by getting more touches. The team is transitioning from old players to young players. As time goes by, old players will lose their effectiveness and young players will improve their games. Ergo, we’re counting on our youth for our future. Jettisoning our vets won’t expedite the team’s development. It’d just mean we had no scorers, and we’d...be looking for older scorers to hold down the fort until our youth came into their own.


This not true. In most cases, especially recently, teams are blown up. Vets are not resigned because it makes no sense financially and stars believe they are still stars and are effective giving little opportunity to the younger guys. Most teams end up like the 90s Bulls rather than the rare 00s Spurs. This is not just an NBA thing but sports in general. Teams get blown up.
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Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#73 » by Skin » Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:02 pm

Skin wrote:The Magic have the 5th highest salary in the league. How ridiculous is that?

SMH

1. Portland $137,534,744
2. Miami $135,262,022
3. Oklahoma City $133,935,277
4. LA Clippers $133,826,385
5. Orlando $133,692,528
6. Philadelphia $133,639,383
7. Minnesota $132,706,778
8. Washington $131,696,924
9. Golden State $131,477,176
10. Houston $131,403,744
11. Cleveland $131,371,296
12. Milwaukee $131,332,989
13. Denver $130,960,933
14. Memphis $130,750,037
15. Detroit $130,436,825
16. Brooklyn $126,830,440
17. LA Lakers $125,740,045
18. Dallas $124,616,924
19. San Antonio $124,292,187
20. Toronto $123,743,063
21. Charlotte $122,870,739
22. Utah $121,854,632
23. Phoenix $121,225,045
24. Boston $119,306,269
25. Sacramento $118,501,111
26. New Orleans $117,868,297
27. Chicago $117,090,132
28. Atlanta $116,954,541
29. Indiana $115,117,660
30. New York $110,374,031
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Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#74 » by Rainwater » Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:19 pm

zaymon wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
zaymon wrote:Everything indicates we want to play through Fultz in the future. If we wanted to compete with Vucevic we would have signed a starting pg like Rubio to play with him and instead we opted to start with 21 y.o still not healthy Markelle. If that is not a prove i dont know what is. He is not ready yet to shoulder heavier load, almost every game he took over he came down with cramps.
Isaac's usage is going up every year, if we trade Gordon there will be even more plays run for him.


-There is a huge difference between "we want to" and "we are".

-Doubt the magic could have afford Rubio.

-Fultz is getting starting mins if he was injured he wouldn't be playing. Don't blame an injury for something the coaches are deciding to do.

-And the mere fact you said trade AG to give Issac more usage is proving my point why AG, Vuc, Evan and Ross must go. Let the young guys play.

To be completely honest I really don't think the Magic even know what they are doing. At some point you are going to have to realize you must go all in or or just rebuild, this halfway thing is not going to work.

We are not playing everything through Fultz becouse he is not ready to. He is not injured but he is not fully rehabilitated either. Playing him as a 1st option right away would be a mistake. He barely has energy to play in his current role.
We decided to invest into Fultz, his salary is why we couldnt afford Rubio.
Gordon is the only veteran who doesnt fit with the rest of young players. Bamba is 1-2 years away from being a starter if ever.


I really do believe that we are just giving Fultz excuses, the guy is healthy, let him play.

I really believe we wouldn't be able to take on Rubio regardless if Fultz was here or not. Fultz was traded for a draft pick. Therefore, Fultz's money would have gone to the draft pick if we hadn't traded for him. Additionally, I am pretty certain we didn't have the cap space anyways. We already have the 5th largest payroll in the league and Rubio signed a contract that is about 17 million a year.

Lastly, all these players have mismatched timelines.
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Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#75 » by Skin » Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:45 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
Skin wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Only path for Bamba to become UFA is if he sucks so badly that team has no interest in re-signing him after 3 years

Or he could feel disrespected by the way the team has treated him after 4 years and try to get out of here by signing a 1 year contract that would allow him to be a UFA the following summer.

I mean that is historically what we do here. Develop players who go on to have much better careers outside of Orlando.


Google "Nerlens Noel turns down 4 years contract" and you'll find out not a single smart person in the world , other than Noel and his stupid menager EEVEEEER did that.
He refuses to sign extension and gets buried on the bench, or gets hurt, odds for him earning more than extension after that year are zero.

Dion Waiters turned down OKC's $6.8M qualifying offer, then they got salty and rescinded it. He ended up signing with the Heat for 1 season and then resigned with them on a 4 year, $52M deal. Greg Monroe turned down the Pistons 4 year, $54M offer...signed a qualifying offer and then signed with the Bucks on a 3 year, $50M deal. Jmmy Butler gambled on himself and won BIG. Kawhi Leonard too... when the Spurs were hesitant to give him a max deal because they wanted him to take a discount. He burned them with antics they couldn't tolerate and then went on to greatness. So this happens.

Yeah, sometimes players make mistakes gambling on themselves too... but the bottom line is that the Magic need to avoid that kind of situation. Either have a plan for him to become a star or trade him. Weltman can't afford to turn that draft asset into mush. If all they get out of the 6th pick of the draft is a backup Center then their vision failed. Their scouting failed. Their development failed.

They lose confidence from patient Magic fans who see other players drafted after Bamba become good players or even worse, put further emphasis on the agony of why they didn't trade up for players like Trae Young and Luka Doncic when they had a chance. Mavs gave up a future 1st for Luka. Magic probably never even considered giving up a future 1st in order to beat the Mavs offer. ATL was willing to move down. But no, the Magic wanted to keep their pick in order to draft a player like Chuma Okeke.

Seems like every Vuc defender has a great view of the Magic and loves the direction we are headed, despite the fact that it is a dead end. I don't know what Bamba will be, but I know that if he doesn't start showing star potential soon that we are headed down another dead end. If the Magic keep killing hopes and wasting top picks, then we will never get out of this pit of despair.
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Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#76 » by Bonafide89 » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:28 pm

MagicMatic wrote:This team is boring.

Fultz and Isaac are interesting players to watch develop. However, neither of them I would say excite me with their play individually.

Orlando relies on the same vet players to grind out uninspired basketball. There are also players with opposing skill sets that just don’t fit together well at all with Clifford’s ideology.

The magic haven’t acquired a go-to scorer via draft or free agency in forever and their draft strategy (record) doesn’t prove that to be their priority.

Ownership also expects wins every season despite hindering any long term goal or plan. This team has zero identity.

Those are the reasons this team isn’t interesting or watchable.
We had Oladip...nevermind. We had Tobias Har...nevermind. We had Saboni...nevermind

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Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#77 » by J the Drafter » Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:42 pm

Rainwater wrote:
J the Drafter wrote:
Rainwater wrote:It is hard to believe they are building around the young guys when most of the play calls are ran for Vuc, Evan, Ross, and AG. Nothing indicates they moving away from those four in terms play calls or play style. How will the young guys progress if they aren't getting the ball?

The young guys will progress by working on their games. That’s how all players get better, not by getting more touches. The team is transitioning from old players to young players. As time goes by, old players will lose their effectiveness and young players will improve their games. Ergo, we’re counting on our youth for our future. Jettisoning our vets won’t expedite the team’s development. It’d just mean we had no scorers, and we’d...be looking for older scorers to hold down the fort until our youth came into their own.


This not true. In most cases, especially recently, teams are blown up. Vets are not resigned because it makes no sense financially and stars believe they are still stars and are effective giving little opportunity to the younger guys. Most teams end up like the 90s Bulls rather than the rare 00s Spurs. This is not just an NBA thing but sports in general. Teams get blown up.

Vuc and Evan aren’t impeding anyone. The new players will take over as they get better and the vets get worse.

Had the Magic traded Vuc and Evan, tanked, and gotten a top pick, they’d be counting on a rookie to make a poor team into a good team. If the new pick wasn’t that good right away we’d be wasting Isaac’s, Fultz’s and Bamba’s prime while we tried to get better, and giving them incentive to leave.

In five years, Fultz, Isaac and Bamba will be leading the team if their development (which will happen in practice, not during games) goes as expected. (I hope Gordon stays, but his contract expires sooner so there’s no guarantee he does). If they’re not good enough to do that, then criticism is warranted.
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Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#78 » by thelead » Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:18 am

J the Drafter wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
J the Drafter wrote:The young guys will progress by working on their games. That’s how all players get better, not by getting more touches. The team is transitioning from old players to young players. As time goes by, old players will lose their effectiveness and young players will improve their games. Ergo, we’re counting on our youth for our future. Jettisoning our vets won’t expedite the team’s development. It’d just mean we had no scorers, and we’d...be looking for older scorers to hold down the fort until our youth came into their own.


This not true. In most cases, especially recently, teams are blown up. Vets are not resigned because it makes no sense financially and stars believe they are still stars and are effective giving little opportunity to the younger guys. Most teams end up like the 90s Bulls rather than the rare 00s Spurs. This is not just an NBA thing but sports in general. Teams get blown up.

Vuc and Evan aren’t impeding anyone. The new players will take over as they get better and the vets get worse.

Had the Magic traded Vuc and Evan, tanked, and gotten a top pick, they’d be counting on a rookie to make a poor team into a good team. If the new pick wasn’t that good right away we’d be wasting Isaac’s, Fultz’s and Bamba’s prime while we tried to get better, and giving them incentive to leave.

In five years, Fultz, Isaac and Bamba will be leading the team if their development (which will happen in practice, not during games) goes as expected. (I hope Gordon stays, but his contract expires sooner so there’s no guarantee he does). If they’re not good enough to do that, then criticism is warranted.


Only 1 more decade of Vuc and Evan to go! It shouldn't take 7-8 years to develop players.
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Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#79 » by SOUL » Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:24 am

thelead wrote:
J the Drafter wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
This not true. In most cases, especially recently, teams are blown up. Vets are not resigned because it makes no sense financially and stars believe they are still stars and are effective giving little opportunity to the younger guys. Most teams end up like the 90s Bulls rather than the rare 00s Spurs. This is not just an NBA thing but sports in general. Teams get blown up.

Vuc and Evan aren’t impeding anyone. The new players will take over as they get better and the vets get worse.

Had the Magic traded Vuc and Evan, tanked, and gotten a top pick, they’d be counting on a rookie to make a poor team into a good team. If the new pick wasn’t that good right away we’d be wasting Isaac’s, Fultz’s and Bamba’s prime while we tried to get better, and giving them incentive to leave.

In five years, Fultz, Isaac and Bamba will be leading the team if their development (which will happen in practice, not during games) goes as expected. (I hope Gordon stays, but his contract expires sooner so there’s no guarantee he does). If they’re not good enough to do that, then criticism is warranted.


Only 1 more decade of Vuc and Evan to go! It shouldn't take 7-8 years to develop players.


People were saying the same thing with Afflalo, Jeff Green, CJ Watson, Ben Gordon here getting minutes/putting up **** numbers as they literally left the NBA the year after. We're the last stop for vets that want to get #s because our other guys "aren't ready" lol
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Re: I have lost interest in this team, why? (25 year fan) 

Post#80 » by Rainwater » Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:16 am

J the Drafter wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
J the Drafter wrote:The young guys will progress by working on their games. That’s how all players get better, not by getting more touches. The team is transitioning from old players to young players. As time goes by, old players will lose their effectiveness and young players will improve their games. Ergo, we’re counting on our youth for our future. Jettisoning our vets won’t expedite the team’s development. It’d just mean we had no scorers, and we’d...be looking for older scorers to hold down the fort until our youth came into their own.


This not true. In most cases, especially recently, teams are blown up. Vets are not resigned because it makes no sense financially and stars believe they are still stars and are effective giving little opportunity to the younger guys. Most teams end up like the 90s Bulls rather than the rare 00s Spurs. This is not just an NBA thing but sports in general. Teams get blown up.

Vuc and Evan aren’t impeding anyone. The new players will take over as they get better and the vets get worse.

Had the Magic traded Vuc and Evan, tanked, and gotten a top pick, they’d be counting on a rookie to make a poor team into a good team. If the new pick wasn’t that good right away we’d be wasting Isaac’s, Fultz’s and Bamba’s prime while we tried to get better, and giving them incentive to leave.

In five years, Fultz, Isaac and Bamba will be leading the team if their development (which will happen in practice, not during games) goes as expected. (I hope Gordon stays, but his contract expires sooner so there’s no guarantee he does). If they’re not good enough to do that, then criticism is warranted.


That is how a rebuild works, lol. You let your young guys lead. Of course there are some growing pains and there are no guarantees but that is just part of the process of going young. Most of the greats had to do it that way. So just let the young guys play, lol.

And Wasting their prime?!?!? 19 to 25 is typically considered your developmental period as the team and player gets their **** together. You don't hit your prime until you are 26.

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