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WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST

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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#381 » by Skybox » Sat Aug 1, 2020 1:07 pm

NotACat wrote:
Skybox wrote:I support and admire Isaac as well as those who kneel. I didn’t get to see the game as I had a meeting in S FL yesterday. I’m very politically and socially conscious and spend a lot of my time and energy on those things. I really hope I can get back to enjoying Bball opinions, debates, game info, etc here again soon...it’s kind of an escape for me. Just my “vote” but maybe the political, social, religious stances of the players warrants a unique (optional) thread. It’s a huge deal worthy of much discussion and I salute them all, particularly Kap, but sometimes I just want to see how Bamba was moving and if people thought Fultz was aggressive enough, etc

Peace.

Btw, thank you for the police sketch artist rendition of Jesus.

Bamba did not show the kind of effort and energy we're looking for, but he also wasn't getting the ball on any of his roles or when he had a mismatch in the paint. Its an odd situation that could create a negative feedback loop.

Fultz was getting to the paint, but still not great at drawing contact. He should have hunted for his shot more since he was playing with the second unit instead of Vuc and Fournier, but that's just my opinion. There's no spacing on that second unit without Bamba and shots that Vuc and Fournier would take (and make) were simply passed up.


That potential Bamba narrative is definitely concerning. I don't know what kind of support system/Agent/family he has, but it could quickly go from "he hasn't earned anything" to "he doesn't feel like he's getting an opportunity, don't know why this organization drafted me..." to "he has requested a trade". If a guy in the NBA has ANY touch of the mentality it takes to be great, he grows impatient pretty quickly and doesn't calmly accept "keep working, you'll catch on" for years (even if it's the truth)...feel free to chime in with "Screw him, he sucks, etc" but that doesn't help maximize the asset value...if he's not getting it, trade him while he has (potential?) value. A pre-draft fear I had is that while his measurables are nuts, he may be too nice and too reasonable for his own good. If you can calmly explain that he just needs to keep working hard in practice and give him 8 minutes per game and he agrees-he may not have even a shred of Mamba Mentality. Even Vuc got pissy when he got benched for Biz-he doesn't say much but he basically said he's been the best guy on the team for years and this is BS, and he was right, then he was an All-Star. That's the intangible we're missing (on our whole team)...try and bench a killer like Booker and watch him go nuts. Hopefully, that kind of unreasonable competitive spirit drives "uncoachable" Lavine into our arms.

I want to see him get meaningful minutes with unselfish players. Garbage time=Garbage lessons.

Also, why is it so understood that 21 year old Fultz has to work himself back into shape with the bench lineup? I know everything is kid gloves with him, but is a fitness demotion OK with him...and with FO? Coach? "Hey guys, anybody care to start?, hate to bother you but you make 10m a year, even when you're sitting on the couch playing Fortnite"
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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#382 » by Bergmaniac » Sat Aug 1, 2020 1:11 pm

Kudos to Isaac for having the courage to stand up for what he believes is right knowing how the clickbait media will try to shame him for it. It's completely insane how politicized the NBA has become. It's a freaking game at the end of the day. Players shouldn't be bashed for their choices what to do during the anthem. Frankly, there shouldn't be an anthem before the games either, it's silly that this happens in a game between two American teams, in the rest of the world anthems are played only before matches national teams.

Anyway, back to the game. Ourt defence was horrendous early on, but we adapted and since then it was easy against this terrible Nets team. Good to see Even in fine shooting form and Isaac dominating in his minutes. The end of the bench guys were horrendous in the 4th quarter, they looked like this was the first time they have played together, so many bad turnovers and hilariously bad defense.

Clifford really needs to rein in MCW, he shouldn't be taking outside shots unless it's end of the clock situation. He was chucking and bricking all game and completely ignoring Isaac.

I didn't watch the scrimmages so this was my first look at the post-break Bamba, and he obviously didn't look good at all, poor movement and he was content to chuck 3s the second he got the ball. Though I am not sure what he could have done even if he was at his form from earlier in the season, his lineup was a mess, nobody knew how to play with the others, Clark in particular looked like he was drunk, and DJ had completely checked out mentally.
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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#383 » by NotACat » Sat Aug 1, 2020 1:15 pm

Skybox wrote:
NotACat wrote:
Skybox wrote:I support and admire Isaac as well as those who kneel. I didn’t get to see the game as I had a meeting in S FL yesterday. I’m very politically and socially conscious and spend a lot of my time and energy on those things. I really hope I can get back to enjoying Bball opinions, debates, game info, etc here again soon...it’s kind of an escape for me. Just my “vote” but maybe the political, social, religious stances of the players warrants a unique (optional) thread. It’s a huge deal worthy of much discussion and I salute them all, particularly Kap, but sometimes I just want to see how Bamba was moving and if people thought Fultz was aggressive enough, etc

Peace.

Btw, thank you for the police sketch artist rendition of Jesus.

Bamba did not show the kind of effort and energy we're looking for, but he also wasn't getting the ball on any of his roles or when he had a mismatch in the paint. Its an odd situation that could create a negative feedback loop.

Fultz was getting to the paint, but still not great at drawing contact. He should have hunted for his shot more since he was playing with the second unit instead of Vuc and Fournier, but that's just my opinion. There's no spacing on that second unit without Bamba and shots that Vuc and Fournier would take (and make) were simply passed up.


That potential Bamba narrative is definitely concerning. I don't know what kind of support system/Agent/family he has, but it could quickly go from "he hasn't earned anything" to "he doesn't feel like he's getting an opportunity, don't know why this organization drafted me..." to "he has requested a trade". If a guy in the NBA has ANY touch of the mentality it takes to be great, he grows impatient pretty quickly and doesn't calmly accept "keep working, you'll catch on" for years (even if it's the truth)...feel free to chime in with "Screw him, he sucks, etc" but that doesn't help maximize the asset value...if he's not getting it, trade him while he has (potential?) value.

I want to see him get meaningful minutes with unselfish players. Garbage time=Garbage lessons.

Also, why is it so understood that 21 year old Fultz has to work himself back into shape with the bench lineup? I know everything is kid gloves with him, but is a fitness demotion OK with him...and with FO? Coach? "Hey guys, anybody care to start?, hate to bother you but you make 10m a year, even when you're sitting on the couch playing Fortnite"

Yea, I agree. Really hope he gets his backup job back before the playoffs, he needs to see that he's earned that spot back. We also don't know what kinds of conversations are happening behind the scenes, they could be affirming what he's doing and just saying once his conditioning gets back to what it was he'll be back with the second unit.

We'll see what happens
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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#384 » by MagicFan101 » Sat Aug 1, 2020 1:16 pm

Skybox wrote:
NotACat wrote:
Skybox wrote:I support and admire Isaac as well as those who kneel. I didn’t get to see the game as I had a meeting in S FL yesterday. I’m very politically and socially conscious and spend a lot of my time and energy on those things. I really hope I can get back to enjoying Bball opinions, debates, game info, etc here again soon...it’s kind of an escape for me. Just my “vote” but maybe the political, social, religious stances of the players warrants a unique (optional) thread. It’s a huge deal worthy of much discussion and I salute them all, particularly Kap, but sometimes I just want to see how Bamba was moving and if people thought Fultz was aggressive enough, etc

Peace.

Btw, thank you for the police sketch artist rendition of Jesus.

Bamba did not show the kind of effort and energy we're looking for, but he also wasn't getting the ball on any of his roles or when he had a mismatch in the paint. Its an odd situation that could create a negative feedback loop.

Fultz was getting to the paint, but still not great at drawing contact. He should have hunted for his shot more since he was playing with the second unit instead of Vuc and Fournier, but that's just my opinion. There's no spacing on that second unit without Bamba and shots that Vuc and Fournier would take (and make) were simply passed up.


That potential Bamba narrative is definitely concerning. I don't know what kind of support system/Agent/family he has, but it could quickly go from "he hasn't earned anything" to "he doesn't feel like he's getting an opportunity, don't know why this organization drafted me..." to "he has requested a trade". If a guy in the NBA has ANY touch of the mentality it takes to be great, he grows impatient pretty quickly and doesn't calmly accept "keep working, you'll catch on" for years (even if it's the truth)...feel free to chime in with "Screw him, he sucks, etc" but that doesn't help maximize the asset value...if he's not getting it, trade him while he has (potential?) value.

I want to see him get meaningful minutes with unselfish players. Garbage time=Garbage lessons.

Also, why is it so understood that 21 year old Fultz has to work himself back into shape with the bench lineup? I know everything is kid gloves with him, but is a fitness demotion OK with him...and with FO? Coach? "Hey guys, anybody care to start?, hate to bother you but you make 10m a year, even when you're sitting on the couch playing Fortnite"


I have been supportive of Bamba because I tend to give a chance to all new Magicians.

They are members of our team and deserve our support until proven otherwise. We may not love the pick they were chosen with but that is an issue we can have with WeHam. We should be supportive of the young player early in their career.

With that said ... it doesn’t always work out and some guys don’t earn our continued support. That is not yet the case with Bamba for me but I can’t deny that the clock is ticking.

If Bamba is the young throw in trade chip (over say the #15/16 pick) with an AG trade to acquire the scoring guard we desperately need then I will help Bamba pack his bags.
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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#385 » by Skybox » Sat Aug 1, 2020 1:19 pm

NotACat wrote:
Skybox wrote:
NotACat wrote:Bamba did not show the kind of effort and energy we're looking for, but he also wasn't getting the ball on any of his roles or when he had a mismatch in the paint. Its an odd situation that could create a negative feedback loop.

Fultz was getting to the paint, but still not great at drawing contact. He should have hunted for his shot more since he was playing with the second unit instead of Vuc and Fournier, but that's just my opinion. There's no spacing on that second unit without Bamba and shots that Vuc and Fournier would take (and make) were simply passed up.


That potential Bamba narrative is definitely concerning. I don't know what kind of support system/Agent/family he has, but it could quickly go from "he hasn't earned anything" to "he doesn't feel like he's getting an opportunity, don't know why this organization drafted me..." to "he has requested a trade". If a guy in the NBA has ANY touch of the mentality it takes to be great, he grows impatient pretty quickly and doesn't calmly accept "keep working, you'll catch on" for years (even if it's the truth)...feel free to chime in with "Screw him, he sucks, etc" but that doesn't help maximize the asset value...if he's not getting it, trade him while he has (potential?) value.

I want to see him get meaningful minutes with unselfish players. Garbage time=Garbage lessons.

Also, why is it so understood that 21 year old Fultz has to work himself back into shape with the bench lineup? I know everything is kid gloves with him, but is a fitness demotion OK with him...and with FO? Coach? "Hey guys, anybody care to start?, hate to bother you but you make 10m a year, even when you're sitting on the couch playing Fortnite"

Yea, I agree. Really hope he gets his backup job back before the playoffs, he needs to see that he's earned that spot back. We also don't know what kinds of conversations are happening behind the scenes, they could be affirming what he's doing and just saying once his conditioning gets back to what it was he'll be back with the second unit.

We'll see what happens


One possible chapter of that narrative (I hope not) is teams move a guy and that lights the fire to "prove em wrong". I like being on the + end of those deals (like Fultz) not the other (Ben Wallace, Oladipo..)
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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#386 » by J-Mezzy » Sat Aug 1, 2020 1:42 pm

I really don't like the babying in the NBA. Guys like Fultz and Bamba are young and not injured, yet they keep them on minute restrictions

New Orleans is holding Zion to 15 minutes game....

Luka is lucky that the Mavs didn't baby him like that. They gave him.the reigns and said go get it young fella
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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#387 » by NotACat » Sat Aug 1, 2020 1:50 pm

J-Mezzy wrote:I really don't like the babying in the NBA. Guys like Fultz and Bamba are young and not injured, yet they keep them on minute restrictions

New Orleans is holding Zion to 15 minutes game....

Luka is lucky that the Mavs didn't baby him like that. They gave him.the reigns and said go get it young fella

Its risk prevention, not babying. As for Zion, their coach said that he should've played to close the game out, but Fultz and Zion both missed time in the bubble after not playing any basketball since MARCH. Its going to be an adjustment for anyone to get back into NBA game shape without risking long-term injuries
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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#388 » by J-Mezzy » Sat Aug 1, 2020 1:58 pm

NotACat wrote:
J-Mezzy wrote:I really don't like the babying in the NBA. Guys like Fultz and Bamba are young and not injured, yet they keep them on minute restrictions

New Orleans is holding Zion to 15 minutes game....

Luka is lucky that the Mavs didn't baby him like that. They gave him.the reigns and said go get it young fella

Its risk prevention, not babying. As for Zion, their coach said that he should've played to close the game out, but Fultz and Zion both missed time in the bubble after not playing any basketball since MARCH. Its going to be an adjustment for anyone to get back into NBA game shape without risking long-term injuries



I know it's risk prevention, but it is over done by certain franchises. Zion is 20 years old. He was training with his team and had to leave the bubble and return. Yes you manage him and make sure he gets back into shape, which again he was working out before he had to leave for a couple of weeks, but 15 minutes for a 20 year old when your team is in the thick of things is over done.
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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#389 » by j-ragg » Sat Aug 1, 2020 2:24 pm

Read on Twitter


Don't know if it's been mentioned yet ITT. Something so disingenuous to me though asking a black dude "do black lives matter to you?"
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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#390 » by Bergmaniac » Sat Aug 1, 2020 2:38 pm

J-Mezzy wrote:
NotACat wrote:
J-Mezzy wrote:I really don't like the babying in the NBA. Guys like Fultz and Bamba are young and not injured, yet they keep them on minute restrictions

New Orleans is holding Zion to 15 minutes game....

Luka is lucky that the Mavs didn't baby him like that. They gave him.the reigns and said go get it young fella

Its risk prevention, not babying. As for Zion, their coach said that he should've played to close the game out, but Fultz and Zion both missed time in the bubble after not playing any basketball since MARCH. Its going to be an adjustment for anyone to get back into NBA game shape without risking long-term injuries



I know it's risk prevention, but it is over done by certain franchises. Zion is 20 years old. He was training with his team and had to leave the bubble and return. Yes you manage him and make sure he gets back into shape, which again he was working out before he had to leave for a couple of weeks, but 15 minutes for a 20 year old when your team is in the thick of things is over done.


Zion was getting destroyed on D in his last game, he was -16 for the game despite his super efficient scoring, his lateral movement was dreadful.
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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#391 » by basketballRob » Sat Aug 1, 2020 2:48 pm

Isaac looks way stronger.

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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#392 » by Optimus_Steel » Sat Aug 1, 2020 3:39 pm

I have no problem at all with Isaac standing, the same with Pop and Hammon. The explanation he gave about just wearing a shirt and kneeling doesn't solve the systematic issue of inequality and policing is correct. However his other reason about God is rather silly and naive.
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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#393 » by swarlesbarkley » Sat Aug 1, 2020 4:28 pm

Haven't read through the thread about JI, so apologize if this sentiment has already been mentioned...

I totally get it that kneeling and wearing a BLM doesn't do anything tangible for black lives and systematic racism (aside from spreading awareness), but to do the opposite (standing and wearing a white shirt), at least visually, suggests you are anti-BLM.

Kneeling and wearing a BLM shirt is basically the easiest thing to do to support the movement at this point - not doing either of those things at the very best takes the conversation away from BLM and at the very worst suggests you don't believe in BLM. I haven't read the bible in a while - what does jesus say about taking the spotlight away from a movement meant to help people in a helpless situation?

I mean, I could understand only doing one of the two: kneel and wear a white jersey, or wear a BLM shirt but don't kneel. Those show solidarity but maybe that you believe there's a better way to help. Doing neither seems purposely malicious.
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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#394 » by Knightro » Sat Aug 1, 2020 4:31 pm

Read on Twitter


^ I thought this was interesting.

A *lot* of white people are significantly more comfortable with athletes, both black and white, kneeling now than they were 3 years ago (hell, even 6 months ago) because it's not really controversial anymore.

Look at a guy like Bianchi. He’s pivoted significantly on the kneeling v. not kneeling thing in short order.

Why? Because it's not controversial now, so now he’s comfortable and willing to throw his arms around it. Now of course that actually means it never really was controversial in the first place, but that's a whole different argument.
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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#395 » by swarlesbarkley » Sat Aug 1, 2020 4:35 pm

Knightro wrote:
Read on Twitter


^ I thought this was interesting.

A *lot* of white people are significantly more comfortable with athletes kneeling now than they were 3 years ago (hell, even 6 months ago) because it's not really controversial anymore.

Look at a guy like Bianchi. He’s pivoted significantly on the kneeling v. not kneeling thing in short order.

Why? Because it's not controversial now, so now he’s comfortable and willing to throw his arms around it. Now of course that actually means it never really was controversial in the first place, but that's a whole different argument.


For sure. But then what is JI doing? Doing something controversial to protest injustices towards Christianity? No matter how you look at it - it's pretty misguided.
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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#396 » by KillMonger » Sat Aug 1, 2020 5:08 pm

Bergmaniac wrote:Kudos to Isaac for having the courage to stand up for what he believes is right knowing how the clickbait media will try to shame him for it. It's completely insane how politicized the NBA has become. It's a freaking game at the end of the day. Players shouldn't be bashed for their choices what to do during the anthem. Frankly, there shouldn't be an anthem before the games either, it's silly that this happens in a game between two American teams, in the rest of the world anthems are played only before matches national teams.

Anyway, back to the game. Ourt defence was horrendous early on, but we adapted and since then it was easy against this terrible Nets team. Good to see Even in fine shooting form and Isaac dominating in his minutes. The end of the bench guys were horrendous in the 4th quarter, they looked like this was the first time they have played together, so many bad turnovers and hilariously bad defense.

Clifford really needs to rein in MCW, he shouldn't be taking outside shots unless it's end of the clock situation. He was chucking and bricking all game and completely ignoring Isaac.

I didn't watch the scrimmages so this was my first look at the post-break Bamba, and he obviously didn't look good at all, poor movement and he was content to chuck 3s the second he got the ball. Though I am not sure what he could have done even if he was at his form from earlier in the season, his lineup was a mess, nobody knew how to play with the others, Clark in particular looked like he was drunk, and DJ had completely checked out mentally.

this made me damn near pull my hair out....and i have a low fade so the difficulty of that task should tell you how mad i was....under no circumstances should MCW be taking more shots than fultz or isaac
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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#397 » by Magic_Johnny12 » Sat Aug 1, 2020 5:36 pm

basketballRob wrote:Isaac looks way stronger.

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Dude, this is so overlooked it’s mind boggling.

Isaac looks like a grown grown man out there, his frame is finally filling in and looks like a completely different person pre injury imo.
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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#398 » by The Real Dalic » Sat Aug 1, 2020 5:47 pm

swarlesbarkley wrote:Haven't read through the thread about JI, so apologize if this sentiment has already been mentioned...

I totally get it that kneeling and wearing a BLM doesn't do anything tangible for black lives and systematic racism (aside from spreading awareness), but to do the opposite (standing and wearing a white shirt), at least visually, suggests you are anti-BLM.

Kneeling and wearing a BLM shirt is basically the easiest thing to do to support the movement at this point - not doing either of those things at the very best takes the conversation away from BLM and at the very worst suggests you don't believe in BLM. I haven't read the bible in a while - what does jesus say about taking the spotlight away from a movement meant to help people in a helpless situation?

I mean, I could understand only doing one of the two: kneel and wear a white jersey, or wear a BLM shirt but don't kneel. Those show solidarity but maybe that you believe there's a better way to help. Doing neither seems purposely malicious.

Maybe he's against the BLM movement? I know I am. You make it seem like because he might disagree with those views that he's wrong, misguided, or evil. He clearly cares about black people, being black himself. But he believes that it's through Christ that we all unify together. He even said that and I agree with him.
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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#399 » by The Real Dalic » Sat Aug 1, 2020 5:49 pm

Optimus_Steel wrote:I have no problem at all with Isaac standing, the same with Pop and Hammon. The explanation he gave about just wearing a shirt and kneeling doesn't solve the systematic issue of inequality and policing is correct. However his other reason about God is rather silly and naive.

It's not silly or naive. You believe that to be so. Us Christians don't. It feels like you don't respect that opinion.
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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#400 » by The Real Dalic » Sat Aug 1, 2020 5:50 pm

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basketballRob wrote:Isaac looks way stronger.

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Dude, this is so overlooked it’s mind boggling.

Isaac looks like a grown grown man out there, his frame is finally filling in and looks like a completely different person pre injury imo.

It's crazy how efficient the guy has become offensively while on rehab dealing with an injury. What was he doing in all that time that made him so much better?
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