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WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST

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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#401 » by swarlesbarkley » Sat Aug 1, 2020 6:03 pm

The Real Dalic wrote:
swarlesbarkley wrote:Haven't read through the thread about JI, so apologize if this sentiment has already been mentioned...

I totally get it that kneeling and wearing a BLM doesn't do anything tangible for black lives and systematic racism (aside from spreading awareness), but to do the opposite (standing and wearing a white shirt), at least visually, suggests you are anti-BLM.

Kneeling and wearing a BLM shirt is basically the easiest thing to do to support the movement at this point - not doing either of those things at the very best takes the conversation away from BLM and at the very worst suggests you don't believe in BLM. I haven't read the bible in a while - what does jesus say about taking the spotlight away from a movement meant to help people in a helpless situation?

I mean, I could understand only doing one of the two: kneel and wear a white jersey, or wear a BLM shirt but don't kneel. Those show solidarity but maybe that you believe there's a better way to help. Doing neither seems purposely malicious.

Maybe he's against the BLM movement? I know I am. You make it seem like because he might disagrees with those views that he's wrong, misguided, or evil. He clearly cares about black people, being black himself. But he believes that it's through Christ that we all unify together. He even said that and I agree with him.


Yes, if he's anti-BLM I do think he's wrong and misguided. I wouldn't say evil. If his plan is to take the spotlight away from the BLM movement by wearing white and standing, then yeah that's a little evil. I just don't quite understand his reasoning for standing and wearing white - he didn't really explain it well. He believes in black lives but the way to go about it is through Christianity? Ok, fine. I don't think just being a devout Christian is a way to help black lives and social injustice but that's not a convo for a game thread. Kneeling and wearing a BLM also helps, so why not do that? His decision to stand seems actively against the movement, which is maybe why his explanation doesn't make much sense - because didn't want to come out directly and say he's against it?
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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#402 » by Magic_Johnny12 » Sat Aug 1, 2020 7:06 pm

The Real Dalic wrote:
Magic_Johnny12 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Isaac looks way stronger.

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Dude, this is so overlooked it’s mind boggling.

Isaac looks like a grown grown man out there, his frame is finally filling in and looks like a completely different person pre injury imo.

It's crazy how efficient the guy has become offensively while on rehab dealing with an injury. What was he doing in all that time that made him so much better?


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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#403 » by basketballRob » Sat Aug 1, 2020 7:56 pm

Isaac just became the most well known Magic player. The NBA will probably nationally televise more of our games.

I bet thousands don't know who Giannis is but they know Isaac.

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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#404 » by Bensational » Sat Aug 1, 2020 8:18 pm

Knightro wrote:
Read on Twitter


^ I thought this was interesting.

A *lot* of white people are significantly more comfortable with athletes, both black and white, kneeling now than they were 3 years ago (hell, even 6 months ago) because it's not really controversial anymore.

Look at a guy like Bianchi. He’s pivoted significantly on the kneeling v. not kneeling thing in short order.

Why? Because it's not controversial now, so now he’s comfortable and willing to throw his arms around it. Now of course that actually means it never really was controversial in the first place, but that's a whole different argument.


It's a good point, but is it more acceptable now because it's meaningless, or is it acceptable because such a united front has been shown? When it's one person, or a small few, it's dissent. When it's large numbers it's a movement. Movements have much more gravity and sway in terms of real change than individual dissenters.
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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#405 » by Bensational » Sat Aug 1, 2020 8:29 pm

Skybox wrote:
NotACat wrote:
Skybox wrote:I support and admire Isaac as well as those who kneel. I didn’t get to see the game as I had a meeting in S FL yesterday. I’m very politically and socially conscious and spend a lot of my time and energy on those things. I really hope I can get back to enjoying Bball opinions, debates, game info, etc here again soon...it’s kind of an escape for me. Just my “vote” but maybe the political, social, religious stances of the players warrants a unique (optional) thread. It’s a huge deal worthy of much discussion and I salute them all, particularly Kap, but sometimes I just want to see how Bamba was moving and if people thought Fultz was aggressive enough, etc

Peace.

Btw, thank you for the police sketch artist rendition of Jesus.

Bamba did not show the kind of effort and energy we're looking for, but he also wasn't getting the ball on any of his roles or when he had a mismatch in the paint. Its an odd situation that could create a negative feedback loop.

Fultz was getting to the paint, but still not great at drawing contact. He should have hunted for his shot more since he was playing with the second unit instead of Vuc and Fournier, but that's just my opinion. There's no spacing on that second unit without Bamba and shots that Vuc and Fournier would take (and make) were simply passed up.


That potential Bamba narrative is definitely concerning. I don't know what kind of support system/Agent/family he has, but it could quickly go from "he hasn't earned anything" to "he doesn't feel like he's getting an opportunity, don't know why this organization drafted me..." to "he has requested a trade". If a guy in the NBA has ANY touch of the mentality it takes to be great, he grows impatient pretty quickly and doesn't calmly accept "keep working, you'll catch on" for years (even if it's the truth)...feel free to chime in with "Screw him, he sucks, etc" but that doesn't help maximize the asset value...if he's not getting it, trade him while he has (potential?) value. A pre-draft fear I had is that while his measurables are nuts, he may be too nice and too reasonable for his own good. If you can calmly explain that he just needs to keep working hard in practice and give him 8 minutes per game and he agrees-he may not have even a shred of Mamba Mentality. Even Vuc got pissy when he got benched for Biz-he doesn't say much but he basically said he's been the best guy on the team for years and this is BS, and he was right, then he was an All-Star. That's the intangible we're missing (on our whole team)...try and bench a killer like Booker and watch him go nuts. Hopefully, that kind of unreasonable competitive spirit drives "uncoachable" Lavine into our arms.

I want to see him get meaningful minutes with unselfish players. Garbage time=Garbage lessons.

Also, why is it so understood that 21 year old Fultz has to work himself back into shape with the bench lineup? I know everything is kid gloves with him, but is a fitness demotion OK with him...and with FO? Coach? "Hey guys, anybody care to start?, hate to bother you but you make 10m a year, even when you're sitting on the couch playing Fortnite"


I've been fearing that potential storyline playing out at some point. Young players who aren't given the keys earlier. But to play devil's advocate -

We've been talking about a potential LaVine trade because he's made comments about being tired of losing. He's the kind of young guy that was given the keys, and he's put up numbers but not Ws. Whilst Vuc, Gordon and Fournier aren't exciting options for building a long term dynasty, they've done the time and learned how to work hard enough and play well enough to get into the playoffs. It was a long road for them.

There's every chance that Fultz and Bamba (and probably previously Isaac) haven't matched the standards set by Vuc, Gordon and Fournier. Instead of turning Fultz into LaVine, I'd rather turn him into Oladipo once he shows he's hungry enough to take that on. Bamba too.

That very much seems to be Clifford and WeHam's M.O. If our young guys don't have the mentality for that then I suppose we should consider other options?
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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#406 » by KillMonger » Sat Aug 1, 2020 8:53 pm

cliff just said today that the whole bamba issue is due to his conditioning "he's not where he was earlier in the season" and "his time will come" or something along those lines...problem is he's been saying similar things for a while now....when will his time come? will it be when we have to decide to extend him or not? It shouldn't take that long to find out if this kid can play or not....
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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#407 » by basketballRob » Sat Aug 1, 2020 9:58 pm

KillMonger wrote:cliff just said today that the whole bamba issue is due to his conditioning "he's not where he was earlier in the season" and "his time will come" or something along those lines...problem is he's been saying similar things for a while now....when will his time come? will it be when we have to decide to extend him or not? It shouldn't take that long to find out if this kid can play or not....
Well he did win the backup center minutes prior to the break.

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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#408 » by yoyojw17 » Sat Aug 1, 2020 10:09 pm

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:
The Real Dalic wrote:
Magic_Johnny12 wrote:

Dude, this is so overlooked it’s mind boggling.

Isaac looks like a grown grown man out there, his frame is finally filling in and looks like a completely different person pre injury imo.

It's crazy how efficient the guy has become offensively while on rehab dealing with an injury. What was he doing in all that time that made him so much better?


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But for real though he looks great.... physically and mentally!
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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#409 » by RookieStar » Sat Aug 1, 2020 10:14 pm

The Real Dalic wrote:
Magic_Johnny12 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Isaac looks way stronger.

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Dude, this is so overlooked it’s mind boggling.

Isaac looks like a grown grown man out there, his frame is finally filling in and looks like a completely different person pre injury imo.

It's crazy how efficient the guy has become offensively while on rehab dealing with an injury. What was he doing in all that time that made him so much better?


Whatever he did.. I wonder why Bamba didn't do the same? All Bamba did was packed in the pounds.
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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#410 » by KillMonger » Sat Aug 1, 2020 10:18 pm

basketballRob wrote:
KillMonger wrote:cliff just said today that the whole bamba issue is due to his conditioning "he's not where he was earlier in the season" and "his time will come" or something along those lines...problem is he's been saying similar things for a while now....when will his time come? will it be when we have to decide to extend him or not? It shouldn't take that long to find out if this kid can play or not....
Well he did win the backup center minutes prior to the break.

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opportunity vs responsibility....sure he can get minutes but if he's not involved in anything then are we using him to his full potential? i have the same misgivings but to a lesser extent about fultz and isaac...how much longer are we going to accept our "Future" giving up the ball only to stand in a corner doing nothing.....no set plays
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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#411 » by yoyojw17 » Sat Aug 1, 2020 10:27 pm

KillMonger wrote:cliff just said today that the whole bamba issue is due to his conditioning "he's not where he was earlier in the season" and "his time will come" or something along those lines...problem is he's been saying similar things for a while now....when will his time come? will it be when we have to decide to extend him or not? It shouldn't take that long to find out if this kid can play or not....

But it makes sense in my opinion. The guy has put on 28 lbs... think about that.... 28 lbs. In order to do that... a person will not be doing cardio on the regular. he i legit eating and lifting... and repeat. His weight gain will not stay now that he's doing more cardio as well. He weight will go down the more he goes through basketball drills.... but he should maintain most of the strength. a few more cycles and he will be where he wants to be, Needless to say... he is no longer getting pushed around... but doing the pushing around himself. And that has been great to see.

So... unlike many of those that have been working out and running ... keeping their cardio at certain levels... he was definitely not doing the same. Now... i was doing cardio doing the pandemic... and got myself up to the point i was running 3 -4 miles easily. Then i stopped. 2 months later..... i went out... all hyped for my run... couldn't do a mile without getting gassed.

and on top of not doing cardio... you added a near 30lb weight vest on. hahaha

one week later. of consistency.... things have progressed better and better. I get it. we want certain things and certain results.... but no matter what.... things will take time. they are natural bodily limitations... just not excuses. So i expected this to not happen... and i believe that eventually he will be good to go. i say 240-245 lb and much more pep in his step. He was a project from the beginning... so we just gotta be patient.... even though... we all... me included... want to see the fruits of it all. :-)
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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#412 » by basketballRob » Sat Aug 1, 2020 10:53 pm

RookieStar wrote:
The Real Dalic wrote:
Magic_Johnny12 wrote:

Dude, this is so overlooked it’s mind boggling.

Isaac looks like a grown grown man out there, his frame is finally filling in and looks like a completely different person pre injury imo.

It's crazy how efficient the guy has become offensively while on rehab dealing with an injury. What was he doing in all that time that made him so much better?


Whatever he did.. I wonder why Bamba didn't do the same? All Bamba did was packed in the pounds.
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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#413 » by RookieStar » Sat Aug 1, 2020 10:55 pm

Did any of you hear the interview of the Pels D. Griffin? He explained why Zion is not being given minutes and they don't believe in " playing your way to shape" or something.

He kept saying science doesn't say so. Do you think we have the same "science" method regarding Bamba?
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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#414 » by basketballRob » Sat Aug 1, 2020 10:57 pm

RookieStar wrote:Did any of you hear the interview of the Pels D. Griffin? He explained why Zion is not being given minutes and they don't believe in " playing your way to shape" or something.

He kept saying science doesn't say so. Do you think we have the same "science" method regarding Bamba?
Yes I heard it. He said, that playing when you're fatigued causes soft tissue injuries.

Also that it's backed up by sports science. That's why I was saying Cliff gets a list of minutes that players are allowed to play before the game.

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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#415 » by RookieStar » Sat Aug 1, 2020 11:44 pm

Alright. You really can't argue with science I guess. I do wish though that in the limited minutes Bamba gets, he makes the most of it.
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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#416 » by OrlandO » Sun Aug 2, 2020 7:05 am

swarlesbarkley wrote:to do the opposite (standing and wearing a white shirt), at least visually, suggests you are anti-BLM.

White shirt? You mean his jersey? lol

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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#417 » by OrlandO » Sun Aug 2, 2020 7:15 am

Paul George on Isaac

Read on Twitter




Isaac coming for lebron in jersey sales :lol:

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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#418 » by OrlandoNed » Sun Aug 2, 2020 8:18 am

OrlandO wrote:Paul George on Isaac

Read on Twitter




Isaac coming for lebron in jersey sales :lol:

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Damn, that is wild. That's one way to make the Orlando Magic relevant.
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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#419 » by basketballRob » Sun Aug 2, 2020 8:29 am

OrlandoNed wrote:
OrlandO wrote:Paul George on Isaac

Read on Twitter




Isaac coming for lebron in jersey sales

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Damn, that is wild. That's one way to make the Orlando Magic relevant.
Suddenly the NBA may want to start marketing Isaac and the Magic more.

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Re: WE'RE BACK!! GAME THREAD (Bubble Edition): Orlando Magic vs. Brooklyn Nets 7/31/20 2:30 PM EST 

Post#420 » by OrlandoNed » Sun Aug 2, 2020 8:37 am

basketballRob wrote:
OrlandoNed wrote:
OrlandO wrote:Paul George on Isaac

Read on Twitter




Isaac coming for lebron in jersey sales

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Damn, that is wild. That's one way to make the Orlando Magic relevant.
Suddenly the NBA may want to start marketing Isaac and the Magic more.

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I doubt it. I expect most extra media attention we get from isaac will be negative talking head soundbites and hit pieces but it's possible. Probably depends on Isaac staying relevant in the news cycle long term.

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