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General conversation and comments on Mo?
So does he not know how to play/stay in the post?
Maybe he should watch some old games of young Dwight Howard and how he made space and got the garbage points. Maybe find a better Big coach?
I mean with his size and now this weight, shouldn’t he be more of a force in the paint?
So why is he not playing? Khem that much better?
Conditioning that bad? If he’s our center of the future, we got a long way to go.

Mo will be our starting C within 3 years

magickingdom wrote:General conversation and comments on Mo?
So does he not know how to play/stay in the post?
Maybe he should watch some old games of young Dwight Howard and how he made space and got the garbage points. Maybe find a better Big coach?
I mean with his size and now this weight, shouldn’t he be more of a force in the paint?
So why is he not playing? Khem that much better?
Conditioning that bad? If he’s our center of the future, we got a long way to go.

I'll try and answer each question individually...

-Bamba does not have a good post game whatsoever. He lacked strength in college and in his first 1.5 years in a pros while also generally lacking sophisticated post moves. But posting up is one of the least efficient shots in the current NBA landscape, so I'm not too concerned with that.

-In a perfect world, Bamba would be alternating between pick and pops out to the 3 point line and pick and rolls where he dives to the rim as a lob threat with gravity because of his length.

-Mo hasn't played enough (garbage time minutes with 2nd and mostly 3rd team guys) at his new weight for any of us to know if he's learned how to be more forceful in the paint. I've seen him hold his positions under the basket better for rebounds which is a good sign, but the sample size is so tiny/meaningless it's impossible to draw real conclusions.

-He isn't playing over Birch right now because Mo gained over 20 pounds in 4 months, mostly of fat, and is pretty significantly out of shape still. To Birch's credit, he had his second best game of the entire season against the Nets on Friday.

I will say this about Birch. When he's been tasked with a clearly defined role of primary backup C playing two 7-9 minute stretches per half (14-18 MPG), he's been a very solid player. He's awful at PF and should never get minutes there. He's obviously not good enough to be a starter. He looked really bad in garbage time with third stringers this entire year.

But when Vucevic has been healthy and Mo has been hurt, Birch has looked like a perfectly capable and highly competent backup NBA center.

You look at Birch's career splits and his sweet spot of effectiveness is over 10, but less than 20 minutes a night. He's been a pretty terrible garbage time player and he's loses effectiveness when he goes over 20 MPG. Comfortable right in the middle. A classic backup C.

-This upcoming offseason is going to be really important for Mo. He going to have around 3.5 months to figure out how to maintain his heavier weight while also solving the mystery of how to get in better condition without dropping the pounds. If he can figure it out, it should be quite beneficial to his long-term prospects as a player.

Bamba was never a good basketball player, it was all projection. He has all the tools, but he cant use it. Some of it is lack of effort some of it is lack of awareness, some of it is lack of strength. On offense he has little feel for the game, he cant pass and he has bad hands. He seems to be more in his own head than on the court. There were also reports that he is not a hard worker, and that he doesnt love the game.
Can he still succed ? With his tools and touch on his shot he still can be a valueable player. He will never be the engine of an offense but in a very narrow role he can still be effective. I dont know if there are many better coaches than Clifford to develop him. Players like him need to earn everything on the floor.

It was a moronic pick no matter what contract-year stats Vuc gave. Taking a center early in a draft is silly in itself in this era. Then with fit factored in, it was pretty much their Hezonja draft.

Hope he turns himself into a solid role player in a Magic uniform so we can salvage something from his pick.

j-ragg wrote:It was a moronic pick no matter what contract-year stats Vuc gave.

I TOTALLY disagree. After Young was tabbed at 5, Orlando went BPA at 6. That was Bamba as a high risk, high reward pick (as all mid-range Lottery picks must be).


My frustration was that Orlando kept the pick at all. There were clear trade packages in the 9-13 range that cold have led to future assets plus the rights to Gilgeous-Alexander. But that is now all moot with Orlando gaining Fultz.

In conclusion: Bamba does start to wiff a BUST-stink. But it is not a bad choice at 6 to go for a home run or strike-out. If Bamba is a loss, it is not, in your words, "a moronic pick". It was a look-see pick.


And Birch has really stood tall in this narrative.



Edit: how is selecting Bamba at 6 differing from selecting Okeke at 16? The risk - reward is the point of both selections in my opinion.

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Khem deserves a lot of credit for keeping Mo on the bench. Birch's pick-setting is elite.

It would help if Bamba didn't play so tentatively in these 2 blowouts so far.

drsd wrote:

j-ragg wrote:It was a moronic pick no matter what contract-year stats Vuc gave.

I TOTALLY disagree. After Young was tabbed at 5, Orlando went BPA at 6. That was Bamba as a high risk, high reward pick (as all mid-range Lottery picks must be).


My frustration was that Orlando kept the pick at all. There were clear trade packages in the 9-13 range that cold have led to future assets plus the rights to Gilgeous-Alexander. But that is now all moot with Orlando gaining Fultz.

In conclusion: Bamba does start to wiff a BUST-stink. But it is not a bad choice at 6 to go for a home run or strike-out. If Bamba is a loss, it is not, in your words, "a moronic pick". It was a look-see pick.


And Birch has really stood tall in this narrative.



Edit: how is selecting Bamba at 6 differing from selecting Okeke at 16? The risk - reward is the point of both selections in my opinion.

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I totally agree. Half top 10 picks end up being busts. It is like playing the lottery, pun intended.

Bamba at 6 was the logical pick with how the draft shook out. You take BPA that high. If you look back you wont find a mock that had Bamba any lower then 7. I get why they took him. The issue to me is not doing what ever it took to trade up for Young. Once that DAL/ATL trade was announced I knew we were screwed. I didnt want Bamba as I wanted backcourt/offensive help.. That said I didnt expect Bamba to be this bad.

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I follow the lead of the franchise and treat Mo like he barely exists. Much easier that way.

seems like Bol Bol is already better and he was taken what? 42 or something?

Complete hindsight but if we were willing to gamble on health after injuries, like we did with Okeke (and Fultz), 2018 Michael Porter Jr should have been pick ( or simply traded down)

My problem with the Bamba situation is I just would have liked to have seen if he could truly sink or swim or not before moving on. I don’t think he was ever given that chance. He’s played such low minutes since we drafted him, had a stress fracture year one which caused him to miss 20 plus games, and now he can’t even crack the rotation and is relegated to garbage time minutes.

Now I suspect that he will probably be on the move this summer. Developing a player like Bamba doesn’t align with the 8th seed goals that this team has. You have to throw him into the fire at some point and see if he can start to put things together but I don’t think this team has the courage to do it. Maximizing wins is the priority.

My hunch is that he probably would have sunk, but it would still have been nice to have found out. Maybe we still will but I have serious doubts at this point.

If you had told me back in 2016 that we would bring in this front office and they would take Henny's asset mismanagement look mild in comparison, I would have laughed you off the board, but here we are now 3 years later as the 7th seed and the most hopeless franchise in the NBA.

pepe1991 wrote:Complete hindsight but if we were willing to gamble on health after injuries, like we did with Okeke (and Fultz), 2018 Michael Porter Jr should have been pick ( or simply traded down)

I often think about this. I wonder why the Magic were willing to wait out Okeke's recovery (or even Fultz's), but not MPJ's (who has a higher ceiling).

Bamba's NBA course feels very similar to Hezonja's so far.

Def Swami wrote:

pepe1991 wrote:Complete hindsight but if we were willing to gamble on health after injuries, like we did with Okeke (and Fultz), 2018 Michael Porter Jr should have been pick ( or simply traded down)

I often think about this. I wonder why the Magic were willing to wait out Okeke's recovery (or even Fultz's), but not MPJ's (who has a higher ceiling).

Bamba's NBA course feels very similar to Hezonja's so far.

it could end up being very wrong. But Okeke displayed against high level college competition. Porter had only played against high school players and all scouting reports said that he was only a jump shooter. Being almost 7ft and a jump shooter in HS, it is fairly easy to get your shot off. Now he may end up being good, but that was what people knew about him, especially after getting injured at Missouri requiring back surgery.

Better ability to attack the rim off the bounce would add to his scoring arsenal … Tends to rely on shooting over the defense in the half court … Ball handling has improved but still needs to improve his overall ball skills, especially with his left hand … Straight line driver lacking in creativity and doesn’t break down the defense … Doesn’t create much off the dribble or have a lot of shiftiness in his game … Has to move without the ball and have separation before receiving it to create space … Relies on outjumping opponents at this stage, will need to improve offensive game moving forward … His pull up game can be predictable and won’t come as easy at the next level … If his shot isn’t falling, he doesn’t always have a way to get easy baskets

Def Swami wrote:

pepe1991 wrote:Complete hindsight but if we were willing to gamble on health after injuries, like we did with Okeke (and Fultz), 2018 Michael Porter Jr should have been pick ( or simply traded down)

I often think about this. I wonder why the Magic were willing to wait out Okeke's recovery (or even Fultz's), but not MPJ's (who has a higher ceiling).

Bamba's NBA course feels very similar to Hezonja's so far.

Hollinger said during his podcast that he saw Porters medical history when he was part of a front office and his doctors said that it would be near impossible to play basketball for longer than few years. We will see how it turns out. Okeke had fairly straightforward injury.

I haven't seen anything that suggests he doesn't project well as an elite rim protector. He'll never be shaq, he wasn't drafted for that reason, so we should stop expecting him to be a dominant paint player.

Def Swami wrote:

pepe1991 wrote:Complete hindsight but if we were willing to gamble on health after injuries, like we did with Okeke (and Fultz), 2018 Michael Porter Jr should have been pick ( or simply traded down)

I often think about this. I wonder why the Magic were willing to wait out Okeke's recovery (or even Fultz's), but not MPJ's (who has a higher ceiling).

Bamba's NBA course feels very similar to Hezonja's so far.

Picks like Payton, Hezonja and Bamba so far make it impossible for franchise to build through draft. Looking back a decade, I am far from draft optimist I was and have begun to appreciate and prefer one round in playoffs to lottery.

zaymon wrote:

Def Swami wrote:

pepe1991 wrote:Complete hindsight but if we were willing to gamble on health after injuries, like we did with Okeke (and Fultz), 2018 Michael Porter Jr should have been pick ( or simply traded down)

I often think about this. I wonder why the Magic were willing to wait out Okeke's recovery (or even Fultz's), but not MPJ's (who has a higher ceiling).

Bamba's NBA course feels very similar to Hezonja's so far.

Hollinger said during his podcast that he saw Porters medical history when he was part of a front office and his doctors said that it would be near impossible to play basketball for longer than few years. We will see how it turns out. Okeke had fairly straightforward injury.

I heared that everybody in Porter's familly had some serious injuries in past...
But you can't deny his talent, guy dropped 37 points like 12 hours ago. He is 22 years old.

I wrote it's a hindsight, but trading 6th pick to 11-12 slot would still give them chance to take him.