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Stay the course or rebuild now

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Stay the course or rebuild now

Run it back!
2
2%
Make minor tweaks to the roster
12
15%
Keep roster but change coach
1
1%
Keep coach but make major trades
36
44%
Make major trades and change coach
31
38%
 
Total votes: 82

Knightro
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Re: Stay the course or rebuild now 

Post#181 » by Knightro » Fri Aug 21, 2020 2:11 am

jonbob17 wrote:Who are the Wolves going to beat up on in the West next year? Warriors are a playoff team. Memphis, SA, Suns, NO? I am not sure edwards is making them any better as a rookie, if they go that way. It will be curious to see what they do with Beasley this offseason.
I mean it is top 4 protected I think, but next years draft is loaded with wings after Cade, unprotected in 2022 which might even be more valuable. All those kids probably won't all be as highly regarded by next years draft, but other players will be moving up too. I would easily take next years 7th over the 2nd in this one. Just on potential.


A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, right?

I'd rather just have the No. 2 pick now over a pick that could land anywhere from 7-15 next year.
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Re: Stay the course or rebuild now 

Post#182 » by jonbob17 » Fri Aug 21, 2020 2:39 am

Knightro wrote:


A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, right?

I'd rather just have the No. 2 pick now over a pick that could land anywhere from 7-15 next year.[/quote]


I mean I guess it just depends on what type of bird it is. Tbh I don’t really have a lot of faith in any of these guys. I’d probably lean Ball as probably the best player in the draft, but I just don’t know. It might be his brother’s slow start giving me some pause, or it might be the ugliness of his shot.

I really can’t see a sure thing, but I know there will be an all star or two to come out here, I think.
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Re: Stay the course or rebuild now 

Post#183 » by jonbob17 » Fri Aug 21, 2020 2:40 am

I mean I guess it just depends on what type of bird it is. Tbh I don’t really have a lot of faith in any of these guys. I’d probably lean Ball as probably the best player in the draft, but I just don’t know. It might be his brother’s slow start giving me some pause, or it might be the ugliness of his shot.

I really can’t see a sure thing, but I know there will be an all star or two to come out here, I think.
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Re: Stay the course or rebuild now 

Post#184 » by pepe1991 » Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:12 am

Knightro wrote:
jonbob17 wrote:Who are the Wolves going to beat up on in the West next year? Warriors are a playoff team. Memphis, SA, Suns, NO? I am not sure edwards is making them any better as a rookie, if they go that way. It will be curious to see what they do with Beasley this offseason.
I mean it is top 4 protected I think, but next years draft is loaded with wings after Cade, unprotected in 2022 which might even be more valuable. All those kids probably won't all be as highly regarded by next years draft, but other players will be moving up too. I would easily take next years 7th over the 2nd in this one. Just on potential.


A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, right?

I'd rather just have the No. 2 pick now over a pick that could land anywhere from 7-15 next year.


People have to understand value of pick from other perspectives

1) marketing value
2) buying time as GM
3) complete salary control over at least 3 (+ potentially 8 years)
4) age factor


When you move top 3 pick returning value HAS to be allstar player for all reasons you (and I )mentioned.
Gordon has some casual fans- value but his basketball player value simply isn't that high.
Even casual fans debate last few days are Magic really that much worst without him on the court, as his usage simply does not meet his production and across the board he is not moving the needle.

Suns pick looks like most objective trade for lottery pick i can see from this bunch.
Warriors can simply draft Wiseman and call it a day ( or Lamelo or Avdija ).

Knicks really got F ed up again
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Re: Stay the course or rebuild now 

Post#185 » by Def Swami » Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:43 pm

Knightro wrote:
Bensational wrote:Fournier + Ross + #15

for

Wiggins + #2

Takers?


I'd 100% do it.

Don't think Golden State would. Feels like they'd want Gordon instead of Fournier.

Which I'd still do.

Agree. I think Gordon + filler for Wiggins and #2 might be more realistic. Not sure there's interest on the GSW side, but I'd do it as well.
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Re: Stay the course or rebuild now 

Post#186 » by zaymon » Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:15 pm

Def Swami wrote:
Knightro wrote:
Bensational wrote:Fournier + Ross + #15

for

Wiggins + #2

Takers?


I'd 100% do it.

Don't think Golden State would. Feels like they'd want Gordon instead of Fournier.

Which I'd still do.

Agree. I think Gordon + filler for Wiggins and #2 might be more realistic. Not sure there's interest on the GSW side, but I'd do it as well.

We should squize gsw if they want to dump Wiggins. Both 2020frp and 2021 wolves frp or no deal. Please tell Curry he wont compete for championship next year becouse you want to draft Lamelo Ball lol. No mercy, we have no pressure
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Re: Stay the course or rebuild now 

Post#187 » by Husky1 » Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:29 pm

So glad Vooch is having a monster playoffs, would be driving his value back up. I would love to cash in with him while he's high. I'd be looking AT GSW/Brooklyn who want to compete. He would be great for both those sides. Allen/Levert for Vooch? or would we want first rounders?
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Re: Stay the course or rebuild now 

Post#188 » by Bensational » Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:09 pm

Fournier + Ross + Bamba

for

Wiggins + #2

Any takers?

Draft:
#2 - ?
#15 - ?

Who do you add to the below roster?

Vuc/Birch
Gordon/Aminu/Clark/(Isaac)
Ennis/Okeke
Wiggins/Iwundu
Fultz/(DJ - likely)
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Re: Stay the course or rebuild now 

Post#189 » by Skin » Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:23 pm

Bensational wrote:Fournier + Ross + Bamba

for

Wiggins + #2

Any takers?

Draft:
#2 - ?
#15 - ?

Who do you add to the below roster?

Vuc/Birch
Gordon/Aminu/Clark/(Isaac)
Ennis/Okeke
Wiggins/Iwundu
Fultz/(DJ - likely)

GS says no imo.

But you got my mind buzzing. Gordon, Ross, 15 for Wiggins, 2... that may do it. Or we may have to move Vuc +15 to get a higher pick that GS would take.

Fultz / Edwards / Wiggins / Isaac / Bamba. Yes please.

Water gently and provide good sunlight. In their prime, this starting 5 could bring us back in contention.
Fultz, _____, Okeke, Isaac, Bamba. LET'S GO!
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Re: Stay the course or rebuild now 

Post#190 » by Bensational » Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:50 pm

Skin wrote:
Bensational wrote:Fournier + Ross + Bamba

for

Wiggins + #2

Any takers?

Draft:
#2 - ?
#15 - ?

Who do you add to the below roster?

Vuc/Birch
Gordon/Aminu/Clark/(Isaac)
Ennis/Okeke
Wiggins/Iwundu
Fultz/(DJ - likely)

GS says no imo.

But you got my mind buzzing. Gordon, Ross, 15 for Wiggins, 2... that may do it. Or we may have to move Vuc +15 to get a higher pick that GS would take.

Fultz / Edwards / Wiggins / Isaac / Bamba. Yes please.

Water gently and provide good sunlight. In their prime, this starting 5 could bring us back in contention.


Nah, at most GSW ask for the #15 to be included. Fournier and Ross would be a scoop for them, as two guys in their primes who would be great system fits instantly, and both being better than Wiggins at this point. Bamba gives them youth, as something to show for the #2, but he’s a slightly more known commodity. Whilst he may have underwhelmed to some, GSW would be smart to snap him up on the low.

Trading Gordon for Wiggins is a downgrade and a waste of Gordon. Think, a future package of Gordon + Wiggins + #2 would be a much more enticing package for a team looking to start a rebuild. Or a team like Philly who feels pressured to make desperate moves. Or frustrated western conference stars who get sick of being blocked out of the playoffs and demand to come east. Etc.

Honestly, there’s not much I’m inclined to move up for, but this is a deal that consolidates two players into one, and is a re-roll of the dice on Bamba. Avdija would be my pick, but I wouldn’t be upset with Ball. Then use the #15 on Pokusevski as our next big man project to replace Bamba. (Or draft Lewis Jr as Fultz insurance?). Boom - we’ve got a playmaking wing in Avdija, and someone with high scoring potential in Wiggins, and a C who already has an advanced skill set for his age and position. And we still have Gordon to trade if the need be.
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Re: Stay the course or rebuild now 

Post#191 » by Skin » Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:55 pm

Bensational wrote:
Skin wrote:
Bensational wrote:Fournier + Ross + Bamba

for

Wiggins + #2

Any takers?

Draft:
#2 - ?
#15 - ?

Who do you add to the below roster?

Vuc/Birch
Gordon/Aminu/Clark/(Isaac)
Ennis/Okeke
Wiggins/Iwundu
Fultz/(DJ - likely)

GS says no imo.

But you got my mind buzzing. Gordon, Ross, 15 for Wiggins, 2... that may do it. Or we may have to move Vuc +15 to get a higher pick that GS would take.

Fultz / Edwards / Wiggins / Isaac / Bamba. Yes please.

Water gently and provide good sunlight. In their prime, this starting 5 could bring us back in contention.


Nah, at most GSW ask for the #15 to be included. Fournier and Ross would be a scoop for them, as two guys in their primes who would be great system fits instantly, and both being better than Wiggins at this point. Bamba gives them youth, as something to show for the #2, but he’s a slightly more known commodity. Whilst he may have underwhelmed to some, GSW would be smart to snap him up on the low.

Trading Gordon for Wiggins is a downgrade and a waste of Gordon. Think, a future package of Gordon + Wiggins + #2 would be a much more enticing package for a team looking to start a rebuild. Or a team like Philly who feels pressured to make desperate moves. Or frustrated western conference stars who get sick of being blocked out of the playoffs and demand to come east. Etc.

Honestly, there’s not much I’m inclined to move up for, but this is a deal that consolidates two players into one, and is a re-roll of the dice on Bamba. Avdija would be my pick, but I wouldn’t be upset with Ball. Then use the #15 on Pokusevski as our next big man project to replace Bamba. (Or draft Lewis Jr as Fultz insurance?). Boom - we’ve got a playmaking wing in Avdija, and someone with high scoring potential in Wiggins, and a C who already has an advanced skill set for his age and position. And we still have Gordon to trade if the need be.

What you say sounds sensible, but tbh the Warriors are not looking to get improved depth from their #2 pick. They're more likely to dangle it in front of MIL for something that involves Giannis. They are thinking images of granduer.
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Re: Stay the course or rebuild now 

Post#192 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:04 am

Skin wrote:
Bensational wrote:
Skin wrote:GS says no imo.

But you got my mind buzzing. Gordon, Ross, 15 for Wiggins, 2... that may do it. Or we may have to move Vuc +15 to get a higher pick that GS would take.

Fultz / Edwards / Wiggins / Isaac / Bamba. Yes please.

Water gently and provide good sunlight. In their prime, this starting 5 could bring us back in contention.


Nah, at most GSW ask for the #15 to be included. Fournier and Ross would be a scoop for them, as two guys in their primes who would be great system fits instantly, and both being better than Wiggins at this point. Bamba gives them youth, as something to show for the #2, but he’s a slightly more known commodity. Whilst he may have underwhelmed to some, GSW would be smart to snap him up on the low.

Trading Gordon for Wiggins is a downgrade and a waste of Gordon. Think, a future package of Gordon + Wiggins + #2 would be a much more enticing package for a team looking to start a rebuild. Or a team like Philly who feels pressured to make desperate moves. Or frustrated western conference stars who get sick of being blocked out of the playoffs and demand to come east. Etc.

Honestly, there’s not much I’m inclined to move up for, but this is a deal that consolidates two players into one, and is a re-roll of the dice on Bamba. Avdija would be my pick, but I wouldn’t be upset with Ball. Then use the #15 on Pokusevski as our next big man project to replace Bamba. (Or draft Lewis Jr as Fultz insurance?). Boom - we’ve got a playmaking wing in Avdija, and someone with high scoring potential in Wiggins, and a C who already has an advanced skill set for his age and position. And we still have Gordon to trade if the need be.

What you say sounds sensible, but tbh the Warriors are not looking to get improved depth from their #2 pick. They're more likely to dangle it in front of MIL for something that involves Giannis. They are thinking images of granduer.


GS is looking for an AllStar win now type of player. You have to imagine they’ll call Washington and try and snag Beal away.
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Re: Stay the course or rebuild now 

Post#193 » by Bensational » Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:04 am

Skin wrote:
Bensational wrote:
Skin wrote:GS says no imo.

But you got my mind buzzing. Gordon, Ross, 15 for Wiggins, 2... that may do it. Or we may have to move Vuc +15 to get a higher pick that GS would take.

Fultz / Edwards / Wiggins / Isaac / Bamba. Yes please.

Water gently and provide good sunlight. In their prime, this starting 5 could bring us back in contention.


Nah, at most GSW ask for the #15 to be included. Fournier and Ross would be a scoop for them, as two guys in their primes who would be great system fits instantly, and both being better than Wiggins at this point. Bamba gives them youth, as something to show for the #2, but he’s a slightly more known commodity. Whilst he may have underwhelmed to some, GSW would be smart to snap him up on the low.

Trading Gordon for Wiggins is a downgrade and a waste of Gordon. Think, a future package of Gordon + Wiggins + #2 would be a much more enticing package for a team looking to start a rebuild. Or a team like Philly who feels pressured to make desperate moves. Or frustrated western conference stars who get sick of being blocked out of the playoffs and demand to come east. Etc.

Honestly, there’s not much I’m inclined to move up for, but this is a deal that consolidates two players into one, and is a re-roll of the dice on Bamba. Avdija would be my pick, but I wouldn’t be upset with Ball. Then use the #15 on Pokusevski as our next big man project to replace Bamba. (Or draft Lewis Jr as Fultz insurance?). Boom - we’ve got a playmaking wing in Avdija, and someone with high scoring potential in Wiggins, and a C who already has an advanced skill set for his age and position. And we still have Gordon to trade if the need be.

What you say sounds sensible, but tbh the Warriors are not looking to get improved depth from their #2 pick. They're more likely to dangle it in front of MIL for something that involves Giannis. They are thinking images of granduer.


Embiid or Simmons might become the first names on the block. Or they'll just bring in a coach first before worrying about moving those names.

I don't see Giannis forcing his way to GSW. He has too much spirit than to just join up with former champs. GSW might just be in a position of having lots of trade chips, but nothing to trade for. And that #2 pick quickly loses value once Edwards/Wiseman/LaMelo step on the court unless they're a surprise star. And Curry and Klay are their window that matters most.
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Re: Stay the course or rebuild now 

Post#194 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:23 am

Bensational wrote:
Skin wrote:
Bensational wrote:
Nah, at most GSW ask for the #15 to be included. Fournier and Ross would be a scoop for them, as two guys in their primes who would be great system fits instantly, and both being better than Wiggins at this point. Bamba gives them youth, as something to show for the #2, but he’s a slightly more known commodity. Whilst he may have underwhelmed to some, GSW would be smart to snap him up on the low.

Trading Gordon for Wiggins is a downgrade and a waste of Gordon. Think, a future package of Gordon + Wiggins + #2 would be a much more enticing package for a team looking to start a rebuild. Or a team like Philly who feels pressured to make desperate moves. Or frustrated western conference stars who get sick of being blocked out of the playoffs and demand to come east. Etc.

Honestly, there’s not much I’m inclined to move up for, but this is a deal that consolidates two players into one, and is a re-roll of the dice on Bamba. Avdija would be my pick, but I wouldn’t be upset with Ball. Then use the #15 on Pokusevski as our next big man project to replace Bamba. (Or draft Lewis Jr as Fultz insurance?). Boom - we’ve got a playmaking wing in Avdija, and someone with high scoring potential in Wiggins, and a C who already has an advanced skill set for his age and position. And we still have Gordon to trade if the need be.

What you say sounds sensible, but tbh the Warriors are not looking to get improved depth from their #2 pick. They're more likely to dangle it in front of MIL for something that involves Giannis. They are thinking images of granduer.


Embiid or Simmons might become the first names on the block. Or they'll just bring in a coach first before worrying about moving those names.

I don't see Giannis forcing his way to GSW. He has too much spirit than to just join up with former champs. GSW might just be in a position of having lots of trade chips, but nothing to trade for. And that #2 pick quickly loses value once Edwards/Wiseman/LaMelo step on the court unless they're a surprise star. And Curry and Klay are their window that matters most.


GS could also just draft wiseman and laugh at everyone when he turns out to be a beast.
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Re: Stay the course or rebuild now 

Post#195 » by J-Mezzy » Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:35 am

Rebuild as soon as possible
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Re: Stay the course or rebuild now 

Post#196 » by Knightro » Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:34 am

J-Mezzy wrote:Rebuild as soon as possible


Ownership isn't going to go for that.

They want the Magic to be competitive so people will continue to buy tickets and out of towners will continue to watch games all season long.

A small market club like Orlando simply "can't" (I say can't in quotes because they obviously can, they just don't want to) have an empty building every night by the time February rolls around.
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Re: Stay the course or rebuild now 

Post#197 » by The Effect » Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:04 am

the ONLY way the warriors are trading that pick is if they can
1) Get a superstar player. They arent trading this pick for AG. It would have to be part of a deal to get an elite level player, something we dont have
2) Im guessing any deal they make will also require the team to trade wiggins with it

Only deal i can see them trying to make is a deal for Giannis

Short of that, they are staying at 2, adding an elite center (wiseman) to an already great team and having the best team in the league next year

Wiseman\Green\wiggins\klay\steph
With a bench of pascall, chriss, poole, lee etc

No team in the nba can compete night in and night out with that, and they arent passing on that for AG
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Re: Stay the course or rebuild now 

Post#198 » by Hogified05 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:56 am

I like Evan but he is a really good 3rd or 4th option on a contending team. It's obvious at this point we won't be going anywhere in the playoffs with him as our starting 2. We desperately need an upgrade there. Evan could thrive on the Lakers or something. I also hate to say it but I am over Bamba. Maybe that's not fair but I just don't think he has it. I wonder what Evan+Bamba and our first would fetch us.

Seems like the Wolves and GS would be willing to deal their picks but this draft doesn't really do anything for me up top. Edwards seems decent enough to help I guess. Don't want any part of the Ball family. Toppin and Wiseman seem redundant to what we already have.

I'd be willing to bottom out next year if the prize was Bates..but that's a couple drafts away. I think Wiggins would be interesting. But that will probably require getting rid of AG and I think pairing AG with a scorer, like hopefully Wiggins, would really open up his game more.

I have no clue what to do. We are stuck in NBA mediocre purgatory. Unless we could score like a Beal or Mitchell at the two we aren't going contend. However, there is no real incentive to suck until Bates year to me. I was starting to get excited for Isaac and Fultz but that took a deflating turn. Fultz is the only piece I have any excitement over for the future now that Isaac's proven to be injury prone.

Probably should just accept fate we are what we are going be for the forseeable future. Middle of the pack end of the lottery first round of the playoff team. So in the meantime I guess i'll just jump on the Doncic bandwagon.
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Re: Stay the course or rebuild now 

Post#199 » by cedric76 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:42 am

I think weham will bank on vuc s sky-high value

If Edwards is available at #2

Trade vuc for Wiggins +2 +assets and draft Edwards

If Evan opt in, use his Expiring contract to get assets

Trade AG for Johnson +culver +17

Resign mcw
Don't resign DJ
Draft and stash ALEKSEJ POKUSEVSKI (needs to bulk up)
Draft BPA with 17
Resign iwundu and Clark on the cheap

Fultz, mcw, culver
Edwards, culver, ross
Wiggins, chuma, iwundu
Chief, Johnson, Clark (isaac IL)
Mo. Birch


Core block

Fultz
Edwards, culver
Chuma
Isaac
Mo
Prediction : weham will draft AARON NESMITH

AG for Johnson+culver+#17
use #17 to gamble on kopusevski (keep him oversee)


**** load of money under the cap for summer 2021

Core of the Future: Fultz, culver, chuma, JI, Mo, Kopusevski and AARON NESMITH
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Re: Stay the course or rebuild now 

Post#200 » by pepe1991 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:10 am

You guys do realise that in potential Wiggins - Vuc swap, Magic are capped up for years to come with terrible player making $30M a year?

Wiggins $30M, Ross $12,5, Fultz $12 ( + extension ), Aminu $10M, Isaac $8M (+ extension). Gordon $18M, Bamba $6M (+ extension)

That's your team. 7 players, $96M, after extensions over $110M . All eggs in one basket, Anthony Edwards. Who probably won't even be aveliable when Warriors 2020 pick is on the clock to pick :lol:

I didn't even count Okeke and 2020 draft pick, that puts Magic in 9 players , over 100M cap range and with exstensions, being close to luxury tax ...


Issue of young teams is that they
a) don't win much
b) lot of times don't even have high upside

Just because players are not old, that doesn't mean they have star potential nor that they will have some exponentional development.
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