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2020 NBA Playoffs Round 1 Game 4- Milwaukee Bucks (2-1) vs Orlando Magic 1:30 pm EST on NBA TV and Fox Sports FL

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Re: 2020 NBA Playoffs Round 1 Game 4- Milwaukee Bucks (2-1) vs Orlando Magic 1:30 pm EST on NBA TV and Fox Sports FL 

Post#301 » by Bakomagic » Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:26 am

Like I’ve said many many times.... Coach Clifford Is not the reason we lose but he is also not the reason we win.


Everyone has their own feelings on whether or not that is good enough for them as a fan, player, or organization
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoffs Round 1 Game 4- Milwaukee Bucks (2-1) vs Orlando Magic 1:30 pm EST on NBA TV and Fox Sports FL 

Post#302 » by KillMonger » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:38 am

Bakomagic wrote:Like I’ve said many many times.... Coach Clifford Is not the reason we lose but he is also not the reason we win.


Everyone has their own feelings on whether or not that is good enough for them as a fan, player, or organization

I really don't want to be down on Clifford, he's a good guy and he's been through a lot....but i got to call a spade a spade....There is a lot of the same stuff going on without growth imo.....just a couple of examples from the past in his charlotte days, just raise your hand if anything sounds familiar.....

In the past five years, head coach Steve Clifford has established himself as a beloved and respected part of the Hornets franchise. He took over the then-Bobcats in 2013 after a pair of abysmal seasons and immediately brought them to the playoffs. It resulted in a first-round sweep, but that didn’t matter. Clifford managed to turn a league-worst defense with 21 wins to a top-five unit and a postseason berth. Morale was high, and the future looked bright.

Things have changed quite a bit since then.

The defense has regressed, and with the exception of an offense-powered playoff run in 2016, the team has struggled. With 29 games left this season, Charlotte is mediocre-to-bad on both ends of the floor and staring down another summer watching the playoffs from home. Sure, Clifford isn’t solely responsible for those struggles. But it’s not hard to see the issues with his style, specifically on defense. With a reputation as a defensive mastermind, that’s a major issue for Clifford.

The biggest issue with Clifford’s defense is simple: it’s outdated. The primary goal of defense should be making life as difficult as possible for offenses. As the NBA has changed, Clifford’s defense no longer accomplishes that. Today, teams are taking and making three-pointers more frequently than ever. And the Hornets let them.


The NBA coaching business is very much a "what have you done for me lately" industry. No one exemplifies that more than Steve Clifford. His rejuvenation of the 2013-14 Charlotte Bobcats was short-lived, as he now has to pick up the pieces left behind by a brutal 33-49 season with the rebranded Hornets.

To say Charlotte fell short of expectations would be an understatement. The buzz of the rebranding was only amplified by the big offseason, where the Hornets signed Lance Stephenson and drafted big-name rookies Noah Vonleh and P.J. Hairston. Then, the season started, and Charlotte never eclipsed the .500 mark after winning on opening night.

Now, Clifford's defensive acumen is being overshadowed by possible ineptitude when it comes to offense and player development. He has a shopping list full of problems to fix for this franchise in order to save his job.



At no point did either rookie become a key member of the rotation for the Hornets. Even with the season up in flames and starters Al Jefferson and Cody Zeller hurt, Vonleh saw just 10.4 minutes of action a night in 25 games. Hairston didn't fare much better despite Lance Stephenson landing in the doghouse.

Vonleh did exhibit some eye-opening ability once his number was finally called over the last few games of the year. He posted a double-double with 16 points and 12 boards

Those skills mean little if Clifford doesn't unleash him in some capacity. A 33-49 record is unacceptable, especially if it doesn't feature any youth development


Not only was Charlotte the worst three-point shooting team in the NBA, but it was also the second-worst squad in fast-break points. It scored just 9.2 points per game in the open floor.

It's absolutely inexcusable for a team this athletic to play so slow.


Does none of this sound familiar to people? this is what writers were saying about him back then along with fans....look there are good things about clifford, for the most part he can get teams to play defense and not turn the ball over....he's a player's coach and he's a really good person those are all good things...he's not the sole reason why things are the way they are however he does have some culpability in this...that's all....maybe he needs a good roster but looking at how our FO has handled things so far? do you see a good roster materializing before his contract is up?
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoffs Round 1 Game 4- Milwaukee Bucks (2-1) vs Orlando Magic 1:30 pm EST on NBA TV and Fox Sports FL 

Post#303 » by Knightro » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:50 am

But look at the two young guys that article repeatedly refers to.

Noah Vonleh is on his 6th team in six NBA seasons and PJ Hairston didn't even make it to the third year of his rookie contract before being dumped from the NBA entirely.

Both of those guys were terrible and playing them more would have hurt the the team. Steve Clifford is simply not the coach you want if your primary goal is to develop youth through playing time. He just doesn't gift minutes to young guys who can't play.

And really in Orlando, there's no young guys that Clifford has really buried on the bench.

Isaac played a ton in Clifford's first season as a 21-year-old and was playing even more this year until his knee injury. Bamba was the primary backup C every game in his rookie year until he broke his leg and every game in his second year until COVID ravaged him.

Fultz can't really even shoot and Clifford stuck him into the starting lineup almost immediately and he never left. That was ahead of Augustin who started 81 games for a team with a winning record the year before mind you.

People are down on the Bamba situation and I get that, but Clifford never benched him for performance. When he's been healthy, he's been the backup C period.
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoffs Round 1 Game 4- Milwaukee Bucks (2-1) vs Orlando Magic 1:30 pm EST on NBA TV and Fox Sports FL 

Post#304 » by KillMonger » Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:30 am

sure you can give them minutes but are they involved really or are they deferring by design? rationalization or not, at this point it doesn't really matter much anymore....what's that led zeppelin track? the song remains the same?..we're already on the treadmill only thing we can do now is ride it out...







P.S......Also with vonleh and PJ we know now that they suck but at the time? especially when the hornets were already losing? it wouldn't hurt anything to play and feature them.....still didn't play them
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoffs Round 1 Game 4- Milwaukee Bucks (2-1) vs Orlando Magic 1:30 pm EST on NBA TV and Fox Sports FL 

Post#305 » by Bensational » Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:58 am

Clifford develops talent just fine. He will eventually help most players find their most efficient shots - which is yet to be shown to be at their detriment.

The problem is we don't have good shot creators, or reliable shot finishers. He got the best out of Vuc, Gordon, Ross, MCW and some could say Fournier, DJ, Iwundu and Clark.

But none of them have talent. None of them are Luka or Trae. We gotta give him real talent before we judge how he would mould it. Kemba looks fine to me.
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoffs Round 1 Game 4- Milwaukee Bucks (2-1) vs Orlando Magic 1:30 pm EST on NBA TV and Fox Sports FL 

Post#306 » by KillMonger » Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:45 am

Bensational wrote:Clifford develops talent just fine. He will eventually help most players find their most efficient shots - which is yet to be shown to be at their detriment.

The problem is we don't have good shot creators, or reliable shot finishers. He got the best out of Vuc, Gordon, Ross, MCW and some could say Fournier, DJ, Iwundu and Clark.

But none of them have talent. None of them are Luka or Trae. We gotta give him real talent before we judge how he would mould it. Kemba looks fine to me.

Yeah but how did that team play though? That's part of the problem....having athletic players but not running? Kinda familiar to me how there are times where we get rebounds and instead of pushing the pace and putting pressure on the defense....we're jogging to halfcourt, i can't count how many times fultz would get a rebound and take off but almost no one else is running nearly as hard and he has to slow down....It's his style but that's the point, same style he had back then and it was outdated even back then...Listen get the whole talent point but look around man, where's the talent going to come from? he signed a 4 year deal and we're 2 years in.....got to make something happen soon
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoffs Round 1 Game 4- Milwaukee Bucks (2-1) vs Orlando Magic 1:30 pm EST on NBA TV and Fox Sports FL 

Post#307 » by MagicStarwipe » Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:49 am

SOUL wrote:If I was forced to eat crow on Elfrid, I'm gonna need some of ya'll to eat crow on Fournier and realize what he is.. so much wasted typing defending him over the years.. :lol:


Hey man, Defenders of the Elf never fold. NEVER!

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Re: 2020 NBA Playoffs Round 1 Game 4- Milwaukee Bucks (2-1) vs Orlando Magic 1:30 pm EST on NBA TV and Fox Sports FL 

Post#308 » by pepe1991 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:32 am

Main Hornets fanbase crying about Clifford, as Knightro pointed out, was about Vonleh, Monk and Hairston.
Vonleh is definition of backup, overdrafted as " new Aldrige" just without jumpshot at all.
Monk is volumen scorer who can't score.
PJ Hairstone retired from basketball at age of 25.


In mean time Kemba Walker at later stage of his career had exponentional growth as player under Clifford.
MKG reached his career highs with him.
Howard played his last respectful season as starter with him.
Jeremy Lamb reached career date (to this date ) in efficiency, RPM, win share...

It's pretty obvious, under Clifford good players improve, bad players lose rotation spot. Just like it should be.

Same people here who want faster pace are ones who want more Isaac and Bamba. One can't run for 3. min straight and other has asthma, along with many, many other health issues.


Irrational crying.

"Nobody runs the floor with Fultz" ummm yea... because Giannis will just hunt him down and block living life out of him if he goes at rim like he does to everybody in that situations...
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoffs Round 1 Game 4- Milwaukee Bucks (2-1) vs Orlando Magic 1:30 pm EST on NBA TV and Fox Sports FL 

Post#309 » by TheGlyde » Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:30 am

pepe1991 wrote:
"Nobody runs the floor with Fultz" ummm yea... because Giannis will just hunt him down and block living life out of him if he goes at rim like he does to everybody in that situations...


I could be wrong, but I think he meant no Magic players run the floor with Fultz, because if they did they could have a numbers advantage in certain situations where the right pass could lead to easy buckets... Giannis cant guard everyone.

Im starting to wonder if the Magic dont do any transition drills or passing/weaving on the run. Its fundamental stuff... and a good warmup... but maybe its be beneath them.

Meanwhile, we blew a 3 on 1 break with Ennis, Evan and someone else when IIRC Ennis made the wrong pass, Evan blew a 2 on 1 by going too soft on the pass to Ennis... I think Wes has blown a 2 on 1 or two and there have been other examples as well.

Any time we have a 2 or 3 on 1 break, unless AG is jumping over people to finish there is a solid chance we blow it.
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoffs Round 1 Game 4- Milwaukee Bucks (2-1) vs Orlando Magic 1:30 pm EST on NBA TV and Fox Sports FL 

Post#310 » by pepe1991 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:47 am

TheGlyde wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
"Nobody runs the floor with Fultz" ummm yea... because Giannis will just hunt him down and block living life out of him if he goes at rim like he does to everybody in that situations...


I could be wrong, but I think he meant no Magic players run the floor with Fultz, because if they did they could have a numbers advantage in certain situations where the right pass could lead to easy buckets... Giannis cant guard everyone.

Im starting to wonder if the Magic dont do any transition drills or passing/weaving on the run. Its fundamental stuff... and a good warmup... but maybe its be beneath them.

Meanwhile, we blew a 3 on 1 break with Ennis, Evan and someone else when IIRC Ennis made the wrong pass, Evan blew a 2 on 1 by going too soft on the pass to Ennis... I think Wes has blown a 2 on 1 or two and there have been other examples as well.

Any time we have a 2 or 3 on 1 break, unless AG is jumping over people to finish there is a solid chance we blow it.


Magic are only behind 76ers when it comes to being the worst efficiency -transition team in playoffs.
Matter of fact Magic are so damn terrible in transition that their overall FG% is much better on set defense than in transition.

10 ppg, 32% FG.

Those are Magic transition numbers in playoffs. And second highest turnover frequency.

2 out of 4 best transition teams ( ppg scored in transition) got swept in playoffs already :lol:

There is so little co-relation between good teams and transition points that 5 of 10 top tranisition teams in regular season were not playoffs teams this year. ( Suns and Nets have top 4 most effective transition offense in nba - regular season )


There is also whole new thing in transition where pull up 3s are new normal. How many Magic players can stop and pop from 25 feet? Ross and Evan? Dj? 3 out of 12 players ? Maybe.
Transition nowdays is like everything else, you simply have to be able to shoot and dribble.

There is also big misconception about Gordon and how fast he is. His average speed of running is worst than Isaac' and Khem Birch runs faster than both. Matter of fact Aminu is faster than all 3 i mentioned before.

On offense once again Gordon is one of slower Magic players. Fultz is fastest.
Defense, same story, Gordon is only faster than Vuc and Dj Augustin (lol )

I do not find running speed particularly useful basketball skill ( being explosive is more important from athletic perspective). But Magic do not have horses nor skill to play faster. Half of the roster can't even make right pass while standing still :lol:
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoffs Round 1 Game 4- Milwaukee Bucks (2-1) vs Orlando Magic 1:30 pm EST on NBA TV and Fox Sports FL 

Post#311 » by Knightro » Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:39 pm

SOUL wrote:Cliff can only extract so much out of this team so it's not his "fault", but I don't like his long term prospects here. He's very set in his ways and I think that is very good for a specific team. I think we're going to be in a big transitional period in the next year or two which probably won't gel with how he wants to coach/allot minutes.

I would like a coach that is proactive rather than reactive when it comes to stuff but it would require reaching out to a coach that isn't a retread.


The only thing I will say to this is that I would 100% agree... if I believed the Magic were actually going to be in a big transitional period over the next year or two.

I just don't expect to see many changes that will actively make the Magic worse in the short-term even if it may improve their outlook in the long-term.

Unfortunately, I really do believe that ownership would rather win 35-40 games year in and year out with fans continuing to buy tickets and watch watch the team on television "compete for the playoffs" than win 20-25 and finish in the bottom 5.

I could see Gordon get moved because they will have Aminu, Okeke and Clark all on the roster next year to man the PF slot and they might be able to get a rotation caliber guard or wing for him along with a draft pick. But I don't see anyone else of significance being send out.
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoffs Round 1 Game 4- Milwaukee Bucks (2-1) vs Orlando Magic 1:30 pm EST on NBA TV and Fox Sports FL 

Post#312 » by j-ragg » Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:46 pm

Another great shooting game by Vuc. Glad he’s doing well with the big lights on.

I still think Gasol is given too much credit by this board for last post season. There were a lot of missed open jumpers. But seemed like almost everyone in the lineup was scared of Toronto last year.
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoffs Round 1 Game 4- Milwaukee Bucks (2-1) vs Orlando Magic 1:30 pm EST on NBA TV and Fox Sports FL 

Post#313 » by drsd » Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:58 pm

With Gordon, Isaac, and Carter-Williams fully healthy, Orlando would not have run out of gas in the 4th quarter. This was a winnable game.

This series really makes me question the "below-it-up" narrative.

Fultz and Gordon need regular, consistent 3-balls. Beyond that, I think most of this team's problems are more mental than physical.

Vučević is effective this post-season (and thus clearly learned from his failures of last season).

Clark has definitely earned itself a lot of NBA-coin moving forward. (all puns intended)


..
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoffs Round 1 Game 4- Milwaukee Bucks (2-1) vs Orlando Magic 1:30 pm EST on NBA TV and Fox Sports FL 

Post#314 » by yoyojw17 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:00 pm

drsd wrote:With Gordon, Isaac, and Carter-Williams fully healthy, Orlando would not have run out of gas in the 4th quarter. This was a winnable game.

This series really makes me question the "below-it-up" narrative.

Fultz and Gordon need regular, consistent 3-balls. Beyond that, I think most of this team's problems are more mental than physical.

Vučević is effective this post-season (and thus clearly learned from his failures of last season).

Clark has definitely earned itself a lot of NBA-coin moving forward. (all puns intended)


..

EXACTLY... can you imagine how much energy players have to exert in order to sustain a level of play to match up against the best team in the league... while missing some of your core players.... and player that would match up defensively against the top players on the opposing team. I find it hard to just say "blow it up" up as well. No one will say that clark is in the same realm as gordon or Isaac.... and DJ wouldn't have to be putting in so many minutes if MCW was available. Getting down and clawing back into contention every game is an exhausting uphill battle.... AND IT'S THE BUCKS!!! People make it seem like we are losing against the hornets or something. lol. But... i digress... and i understand peoples frustration and desire to see a winning team.

for me the confidence and culture is being built... but injuries have definitely sapped our strength.
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoffs Round 1 Game 4- Milwaukee Bucks (2-1) vs Orlando Magic 1:30 pm EST on NBA TV and Fox Sports FL 

Post#315 » by NotACat » Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:06 pm

drsd wrote:With Gordon, Isaac, and Carter-Williams fully healthy, Orlando would not have run out of gas in the 4th quarter. This was a winnable game.

This series really makes me question the "below-it-up" narrative.

Fultz and Gordon need regular, consistent 3-balls. Beyond that, I think most of this team's problems are more mental than physical.

Vučević is effective this post-season (and thus clearly learned from his failures of last season).

Clark has definitely earned itself a lot of NBA-coin moving forward. (all puns intended)


..

Something to note about Vuc: he only took 2.6 attempts from 3 vs the Raptors last year, he's attempting 8.5 this year vs the Bucks.

Having Fultz has been a huge help - 3.5 (41.2%) of Vuc's 3pt attempts have come off a pass from Fultz. Its a symbiotic relationship - Vuc opens up the paint for Fultz to drive, Fultz's drive collapses the defense for Vuc's to get an open shot on the perimeter.

This is a huge reason why I'm strongly opposed to trading Vuc right now. He's too important to Fultz's development. Long term, I think the FO hopes to see Bamba taking those 3s instead of Vuc.
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoffs Round 1 Game 4- Milwaukee Bucks (2-1) vs Orlando Magic 1:30 pm EST on NBA TV and Fox Sports FL 

Post#316 » by Xatticus » Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:11 pm

NBlue wrote:Its hard to have perspective after playoff losses but the Cliff hate here seems completely insane to me.

Our team isn't made up of members of the island of misfit toys because those guys would be too good for our team. He is STARTING a dude that released midseason, another guy that Philly basically gave to us midseason, a pg that was a massive reclamation project, Evan (who we have already discussed) and Vooch (who has played his best ball of his career in this series under Cliff).

How the entire Orlando Magic fan base does not give Cliff a standing ovation for keeping the magic even close for 3 quarters is beyond me. He got our squad to hustle their asses off and fight all they could for 3 quarters. You want to take issue with some of the rotation choices -- me too -- but you have to keep in mind the bigger picture. This team doesn't even have a chance without Cliff's coaching and failing to acknowledge that is simply absurd.


We aren't in this series. The only reason it isn't really ugly is because Milwaukee is just letting us shoot threes and we have hit enough to keep the scores respectable. Vucevic is taking 8.5 threes per game and hitting 44% of them. He is completely unguarded every time we run the pick and roll. He pops out wide open after every screen and Milwaukee just doesn't give a ****. If Budenholzer considered Orlando to be a threat, he would've adjusted the defense by now.

I'm not going to blame Clifford for losing the series. That would be silly. I'm also not going to give him credit for losing the series, especially when the other coach isn't really even coaching right now. Toronto adjusted to shut down the pick and roll after the first game last year and Clifford had no response. Milwaukee simply hasn't bothered to adjust.
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoffs Round 1 Game 4- Milwaukee Bucks (2-1) vs Orlando Magic 1:30 pm EST on NBA TV and Fox Sports FL 

Post#317 » by basketballRob » Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:29 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
TheGlyde wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
"Nobody runs the floor with Fultz" ummm yea... because Giannis will just hunt him down and block living life out of him if he goes at rim like he does to everybody in that situations...


I could be wrong, but I think he meant no Magic players run the floor with Fultz, because if they did they could have a numbers advantage in certain situations where the right pass could lead to easy buckets... Giannis cant guard everyone.

Im starting to wonder if the Magic dont do any transition drills or passing/weaving on the run. Its fundamental stuff... and a good warmup... but maybe its be beneath them.

Meanwhile, we blew a 3 on 1 break with Ennis, Evan and someone else when IIRC Ennis made the wrong pass, Evan blew a 2 on 1 by going too soft on the pass to Ennis... I think Wes has blown a 2 on 1 or two and there have been other examples as well.

Any time we have a 2 or 3 on 1 break, unless AG is jumping over people to finish there is a solid chance we blow it.


Magic are only behind 76ers when it comes to being the worst efficiency -transition team in playoffs.
Matter of fact Magic are so damn terrible in transition that their overall FG% is much better on set defense than in transition.

10 ppg, 32% FG.

Those are Magic transition numbers in playoffs. And second highest turnover frequency.

2 out of 4 best transition teams ( ppg scored in transition) got swept in playoffs already

There is so little co-relation between good teams and transition points that 5 of 10 top tranisition teams in regular season were not playoffs teams this year. ( Suns and Nets have top 4 most effective transition offense in nba - regular season )


There is also whole new thing in transition where pull up 3s are new normal. How many Magic players can stop and pop from 25 feet? Ross and Evan? Dj? 3 out of 12 players ? Maybe.
Transition nowdays is like everything else, you simply have to be able to shoot and dribble.

There is also big misconception about Gordon and how fast he is. His average speed of running is worst than Isaac' and Khem Birch runs faster than both. Matter of fact Aminu is faster than all 3 i mentioned before.

On offense once again Gordon is one of slower Magic players. Fultz is fastest.
Defense, same story, Gordon is only faster than Vuc and Dj Augustin (lol )

I do not find running speed particularly useful basketball skill ( being explosive is more important from athletic perspective). But Magic do not have horses nor skill to play faster. Half of the roster can't even make right pass while standing still
Gordon was one of the fastest runners at the combine.

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Re: 2020 NBA Playoffs Round 1 Game 4- Milwaukee Bucks (2-1) vs Orlando Magic 1:30 pm EST on NBA TV and Fox Sports FL 

Post#318 » by TheGlyde » Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:17 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
TheGlyde wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
"Nobody runs the floor with Fultz" ummm yea... because Giannis will just hunt him down and block living life out of him if he goes at rim like he does to everybody in that situations...


I could be wrong, but I think he meant no Magic players run the floor with Fultz, because if they did they could have a numbers advantage in certain situations where the right pass could lead to easy buckets... Giannis cant guard everyone.

Im starting to wonder if the Magic dont do any transition drills or passing/weaving on the run. Its fundamental stuff... and a good warmup... but maybe its be beneath them.

Meanwhile, we blew a 3 on 1 break with Ennis, Evan and someone else when IIRC Ennis made the wrong pass, Evan blew a 2 on 1 by going too soft on the pass to Ennis... I think Wes has blown a 2 on 1 or two and there have been other examples as well.

Any time we have a 2 or 3 on 1 break, unless AG is jumping over people to finish there is a solid chance we blow it.


Magic are only behind 76ers when it comes to being the worst efficiency -transition team in playoffs.
Matter of fact Magic are so damn terrible in transition that their overall FG% is much better on set defense than in transition.

10 ppg, 32% FG.

Those are Magic transition numbers in playoffs. And second highest turnover frequency.

2 out of 4 best transition teams ( ppg scored in transition) got swept in playoffs already :lol:

There is so little co-relation between good teams and transition points that 5 of 10 top tranisition teams in regular season were not playoffs teams this year. ( Suns and Nets have top 4 most effective transition offense in nba - regular season )


There is also whole new thing in transition where pull up 3s are new normal. How many Magic players can stop and pop from 25 feet? Ross and Evan? Dj? 3 out of 12 players ? Maybe.
Transition nowdays is like everything else, you simply have to be able to shoot and dribble.

There is also big misconception about Gordon and how fast he is. His average speed of running is worst than Isaac' and Khem Birch runs faster than both. Matter of fact Aminu is faster than all 3 i mentioned before.

On offense once again Gordon is one of slower Magic players. Fultz is fastest.
Defense, same story, Gordon is only faster than Vuc and Dj Augustin (lol )

I do not find running speed particularly useful basketball skill ( being explosive is more important from athletic perspective). But Magic do not have horses nor skill to play faster. Half of the roster can't even make right pass while standing still :lol:


My point with Gordon was his finishing ability more than his speed.

If hes out on the break any passer can lob the ball over the defender somewhere in the general vicinity of the rim and he will usually finish. When we have Ennis/Evan/Clark and other unathletic players running, you need a pinpoint pass to finsh the break and they have not been good at making it.

Also don't disagree with your transition stats and the correlation to playoff teams, and I'm not saying we should be trying to be the best transition offence in the league, but, sure wouldn't help to improve it a little and get a few easy buckets when they are there for the taking.
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoffs Round 1 Game 4- Milwaukee Bucks (2-1) vs Orlando Magic 1:30 pm EST on NBA TV and Fox Sports FL 

Post#319 » by zaymon » Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:55 am

TheGlyde wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
TheGlyde wrote:
I could be wrong, but I think he meant no Magic players run the floor with Fultz, because if they did they could have a numbers advantage in certain situations where the right pass could lead to easy buckets... Giannis cant guard everyone.

Im starting to wonder if the Magic dont do any transition drills or passing/weaving on the run. Its fundamental stuff... and a good warmup... but maybe its be beneath them.

Meanwhile, we blew a 3 on 1 break with Ennis, Evan and someone else when IIRC Ennis made the wrong pass, Evan blew a 2 on 1 by going too soft on the pass to Ennis... I think Wes has blown a 2 on 1 or two and there have been other examples as well.

Any time we have a 2 or 3 on 1 break, unless AG is jumping over people to finish there is a solid chance we blow it.


Magic are only behind 76ers when it comes to being the worst efficiency -transition team in playoffs.
Matter of fact Magic are so damn terrible in transition that their overall FG% is much better on set defense than in transition.

10 ppg, 32% FG.

Those are Magic transition numbers in playoffs. And second highest turnover frequency.

2 out of 4 best transition teams ( ppg scored in transition) got swept in playoffs already :lol:

There is so little co-relation between good teams and transition points that 5 of 10 top tranisition teams in regular season were not playoffs teams this year. ( Suns and Nets have top 4 most effective transition offense in nba - regular season )


There is also whole new thing in transition where pull up 3s are new normal. How many Magic players can stop and pop from 25 feet? Ross and Evan? Dj? 3 out of 12 players ? Maybe.
Transition nowdays is like everything else, you simply have to be able to shoot and dribble.

There is also big misconception about Gordon and how fast he is. His average speed of running is worst than Isaac' and Khem Birch runs faster than both. Matter of fact Aminu is faster than all 3 i mentioned before.

On offense once again Gordon is one of slower Magic players. Fultz is fastest.
Defense, same story, Gordon is only faster than Vuc and Dj Augustin (lol )

I do not find running speed particularly useful basketball skill ( being explosive is more important from athletic perspective). But Magic do not have horses nor skill to play faster. Half of the roster can't even make right pass while standing still :lol:


My point with Gordon was his finishing ability more than his speed.

If hes out on the break any passer can lob the ball over the defender somewhere in the general vicinity of the rim and he will usually finish. When we have Ennis/Evan/Clark and other unathletic players running, you need a pinpoint pass to finsh the break and they have not been good at making it.

Also don't disagree with your transition stats and the correlation to playoff teams, and I'm not saying we should be trying to be the best transition offence in the league, but, sure wouldn't help to improve it a little and get a few easy buckets when they are there for the taking.

Gordon is one of our worst transition players by the numbers and eye test. Not fast with the ball like pepe mentioned, commits a lot of turnovers, cant finish outside a dunk. If we want to run with Fultz Gordon is not a great option really.
Bold Predictions:
1. Deandre Ayton biggest disappointment of 2018 draft.
2. Nick Nurse becomes Orlando Magic Head Coach. (15.04.2018)
yoyojw17
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoffs Round 1 Game 4- Milwaukee Bucks (2-1) vs Orlando Magic 1:30 pm EST on NBA TV and Fox Sports FL 

Post#320 » by yoyojw17 » Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:35 am

zaymon wrote:
TheGlyde wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Magic are only behind 76ers when it comes to being the worst efficiency -transition team in playoffs.
Matter of fact Magic are so damn terrible in transition that their overall FG% is much better on set defense than in transition.

10 ppg, 32% FG.

Those are Magic transition numbers in playoffs. And second highest turnover frequency.

2 out of 4 best transition teams ( ppg scored in transition) got swept in playoffs already :lol:

There is so little co-relation between good teams and transition points that 5 of 10 top tranisition teams in regular season were not playoffs teams this year. ( Suns and Nets have top 4 most effective transition offense in nba - regular season )


There is also whole new thing in transition where pull up 3s are new normal. How many Magic players can stop and pop from 25 feet? Ross and Evan? Dj? 3 out of 12 players ? Maybe.
Transition nowdays is like everything else, you simply have to be able to shoot and dribble.

There is also big misconception about Gordon and how fast he is. His average speed of running is worst than Isaac' and Khem Birch runs faster than both. Matter of fact Aminu is faster than all 3 i mentioned before.

On offense once again Gordon is one of slower Magic players. Fultz is fastest.
Defense, same story, Gordon is only faster than Vuc and Dj Augustin (lol )

I do not find running speed particularly useful basketball skill ( being explosive is more important from athletic perspective). But Magic do not have horses nor skill to play faster. Half of the roster can't even make right pass while standing still :lol:


My point with Gordon was his finishing ability more than his speed.

If hes out on the break any passer can lob the ball over the defender somewhere in the general vicinity of the rim and he will usually finish. When we have Ennis/Evan/Clark and other unathletic players running, you need a pinpoint pass to finsh the break and they have not been good at making it.

Also don't disagree with your transition stats and the correlation to playoff teams, and I'm not saying we should be trying to be the best transition offence in the league, but, sure wouldn't help to improve it a little and get a few easy buckets when they are there for the taking.

Gordon is one of our worst transition players by the numbers and eye test. Not fast with the ball like pepe mentioned, commits a lot of turnovers, cant finish outside a dunk. If we want to run with Fultz Gordon is not a great option really.


The problem with AG at times/most of the time is that he holds up with and for the ball a lot more than i would like. Agreed with BasketballRob... i distinctively remember him being one of the fastest end to end players in the combine. and that's what he should be doing instead of waiting for the ball at half court or taking it the length of the court by himself....waving people off or telling everyone to slow down. in a dead sprint.... there aren't many bigs.... let alone players that can consistently keep up with him. Either he'll get to the basket first... or he'll get to his spot first. As i've said many of times.... if he plays within himself and to his strengths ... the skies the limit for the guy. Pick and choose his spots.... be aggressive , but do so in the flow of the game and not stop the ball to do something that is most likely inefficient and a detriment to the team possessions. the best version of AG is the one that shoots to efficiently land in the 15-18 pnt range... grab 7-9 rebounds... and dealing 5-6 asst with 2 stocks. ut yeah... the guy still has room to grow at 24 years old.

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