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Markell Fultz

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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#41 » by tiderulz » Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:36 pm

Skin wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
ARandomStranger wrote:I can easily see Markelle being a 20 ppg guy and constantly flirting with double doubles with points and assists.

And that is without a pull up three.

I get people want more than that, but in all honesty I think just being able to hit open 3s is enough for now and should be enough to force defenses to adjust to him. Would I love for him to pull up from behind the line? Sure, but I've tempered my expectations, and am fine with him just being willing to take 3s at all.

This Markelle is after all a hundred times more reliable than Philly Markelle and I have faith that even if he doesn't become a three point marksman he will still bring playmaking, mid range, transition offense, defense, and drives.

That is still a capable starter in the NBA.

i cant. that 3 pt shot will be a requirement, if nothing else to give him space to drive. otherwise teams will sit back on him and his driving lanes will be smaller.

Well there is some give and take on that opinion. Driving lanes would be open if we had other players capable of hitting 3s as well. I'm not taking about guys who can hit 3s some days and lay bricks other days (which we currently have).

Fournier, Ross and Ennis is just not gonna cut it. Vuc has been great and Bamba can spread the floor as well, so no worry there. But our 2 and 3 spots are terrible.

Hoping that a healthy Okeke translates because he is an ideal pairing theoretically. His shot is wet.

Fournier shot 40% from 3 for the season. Bamba, Isaac, Vuc all at 34% (AG at 30% :o ). so how can Evan not cut it, but the lesser shooters can? and im not saying we dont need an upgrade from Evan. its just that the other players arent better, but you say they can spread the floor and have been great.
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#42 » by zaymon » Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:49 pm

tiderulz wrote:
Skin wrote:
tiderulz wrote:i cant. that 3 pt shot will be a requirement, if nothing else to give him space to drive. otherwise teams will sit back on him and his driving lanes will be smaller.

Well there is some give and take on that opinion. Driving lanes would be open if we had other players capable of hitting 3s as well. I'm not taking about guys who can hit 3s some days and lay bricks other days (which we currently have).

Fournier, Ross and Ennis is just not gonna cut it. Vuc has been great and Bamba can spread the floor as well, so no worry there. But our 2 and 3 spots are terrible.

Hoping that a healthy Okeke translates because he is an ideal pairing theoretically. His shot is wet.

Fournier shot 40% from 3 for the season. Bamba, Isaac, Vuc all at 34% (AG at 30% :o ). so how can Evan not cut it, but the lesser shooters can? and im not saying we dont need an upgrade from Evan. its just that the other players arent better, but you say they can spread the floor and have been great.

My mind is blown aswell. I think knicks and sixers had similar team building strategy to skin this year. We should learn from them and trade our best shooters.
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#43 » by Skin » Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:20 pm

tiderulz wrote:
Skin wrote:
tiderulz wrote:i cant. that 3 pt shot will be a requirement, if nothing else to give him space to drive. otherwise teams will sit back on him and his driving lanes will be smaller.

Well there is some give and take on that opinion. Driving lanes would be open if we had other players capable of hitting 3s as well. I'm not taking about guys who can hit 3s some days and lay bricks other days (which we currently have).

Fournier, Ross and Ennis is just not gonna cut it. Vuc has been great and Bamba can spread the floor as well, so no worry there. But our 2 and 3 spots are terrible.

Hoping that a healthy Okeke translates because he is an ideal pairing theoretically. His shot is wet.

Fournier shot 40% from 3 for the season. Bamba, Isaac, Vuc all at 34% (AG at 30% :o ). so how can Evan not cut it, but the lesser shooters can? and im not saying we dont need an upgrade from Evan. its just that the other players arent better, but you say they can spread the floor and have been great.

I only said Vuc and Bamba are good 3 pt shooters but that is in terms of them being Centers.

I never said everyone else except for Fournier can cut it. That's laughable. But yeah, Fournier completely disappeared in the playoffs. He's too soft and mentally weak. It's proven. This is the second year in a row he's collapsed in the pressure of the playoffs. Regular season means very little.
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#44 » by Skin » Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:26 pm

zaymon wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
Skin wrote:Well there is some give and take on that opinion. Driving lanes would be open if we had other players capable of hitting 3s as well. I'm not taking about guys who can hit 3s some days and lay bricks other days (which we currently have).

Fournier, Ross and Ennis is just not gonna cut it. Vuc has been great and Bamba can spread the floor as well, so no worry there. But our 2 and 3 spots are terrible.

Hoping that a healthy Okeke translates because he is an ideal pairing theoretically. His shot is wet.

Fournier shot 40% from 3 for the season. Bamba, Isaac, Vuc all at 34% (AG at 30% :o ). so how can Evan not cut it, but the lesser shooters can? and im not saying we dont need an upgrade from Evan. its just that the other players arent better, but you say they can spread the floor and have been great.

My mind is blown aswell. I think knicks and sixers had similar team building strategy to skin this year. We should learn from them and trade our best shooters.

That's cute. Let me guess.... you want to extend Fournier's contract because everything is going according to plan. Do you deny that?
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#45 » by SF_Warriors » Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:52 pm

Is this guy a core player for the team? Do you guys see Fultz starting at point guard for the next 5-10+ years?
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#46 » by zaymon » Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:10 pm

SF_Warriors wrote:Is this guy a core player for the team? Do you guys see Fultz starting at point guard for the next 5-10+ years?

It all depends on his development. If his shot comes along he will be a legitimate starter, right now he is a reclamation project for us.
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#47 » by MagicFan101 » Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:18 pm

Skin wrote:
zaymon wrote:
tiderulz wrote:Fournier shot 40% from 3 for the season. Bamba, Isaac, Vuc all at 34% (AG at 30% :o ). so how can Evan not cut it, but the lesser shooters can? and im not saying we dont need an upgrade from Evan. its just that the other players arent better, but you say they can spread the floor and have been great.

My mind is blown aswell. I think knicks and sixers had similar team building strategy to skin this year. We should learn from them and trade our best shooters.

That's cute. Let me guess.... you want to extend Fournier's contract because everything is going according to plan. Do you deny that?


Being the “best shooter” on one of the worst offenses in the league isn’t a title to be proud of.

I don’t see how anyone can actually watch Evan play and defend him the core SG they want this franchise to push forward with.
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#48 » by tiderulz » Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:44 pm

MagicFan101 wrote:
Skin wrote:
zaymon wrote:My mind is blown aswell. I think knicks and sixers had similar team building strategy to skin this year. We should learn from them and trade our best shooters.

That's cute. Let me guess.... you want to extend Fournier's contract because everything is going according to plan. Do you deny that?


Being the “best shooter” on one of the worst offenses in the league isn’t a title to be proud of.

I don’t see how anyone can actually watch Evan play and defend him the core SG they want this franchise to push forward with.

but shooting 40% from 3 is good shooting. Evan can be an efficient player shooter and scorer. Up to the coaches to either figure it out or move him
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#49 » by basketballRob » Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:50 pm

SF_Warriors wrote:Is this guy a core player for the team? Do you guys see Fultz starting at point guard for the next 5-10+ years?
Yes i think he'll be here the next 5 at least. He'll eventually be a 20 pt scorer. This year out of design he got little opportunities. The offense ran through Fournier and Augustine.

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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#50 » by MasterGMer » Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:00 pm

basketballRob wrote:
SF_Warriors wrote:Is this guy a core player for the team? Do you guys see Fultz starting at point guard for the next 5-10+ years?
Yes i think he'll be here the next 5 at least. He'll eventually be a 20 pt scorer. This year out of design he got little opportunities. The offense ran through Fournier and Augustine.

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I agree. Markelle is our future and he will be the starting PG for this Orlando Magic team for the next several years, at least
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#51 » by Skin » Tue Sep 1, 2020 1:03 am

tiderulz wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:
Skin wrote:That's cute. Let me guess.... you want to extend Fournier's contract because everything is going according to plan. Do you deny that?


Being the “best shooter” on one of the worst offenses in the league isn’t a title to be proud of.

I don’t see how anyone can actually watch Evan play and defend him the core SG they want this franchise to push forward with.

but shooting 40% from 3 is good shooting. Evan can be an efficient player shooter and scorer. Up to the coaches to either figure it out or move him

Moving him is the answer. Even if they can find value in advertising him as an expiring contract.

40% is good, but it's meaningless if it doesn't translate to the playoffs. Many used to think that he would be a good 3rd or 4th option on a good team, but his value has diminished after the last 2 playoff appearances.

From ESPN today...

In three (brief) playoff appearances, Fournier has never shot better than 35.3% or averaged more than 12.8 points and 2.6 assists. Three or four years ago, some within the Magic hoped Fournier would turn into a second or third option on a good team. A subset of those folks considered him a superior prospect to Oladipo.

Fournier has had some nice shooting seasons, including this one, but he has never advanced as a playmaker. His game has not withstood increased attention from postseason defenses.

Fournier is almost 28, so he probably is what he is -- a fifth starter or sixth man on a real postseason threat. That's fine. He's good! He just never made the expected developmental leap.


The future needs to be focused on building the best team they can around Fultz, Okeke, Isaac, Bamba and their pick this year.

Fournier is a decent player, but we need to focus on development more than pushing for an 8th seed, 1st round knockout. Who knows, maybe we make it that far without him. He's never been a consistent reason for wins imo.
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#52 » by Bensational » Tue Sep 1, 2020 6:08 am

Skin wrote:
The future needs to be focused on building the best team they can around Fultz, Okeke, Isaac, Bamba and their pick this year.


I'm with you moving Fournier being more or less inconsequential to the rest of the team. But I don't agree the team should be building a team around any of those guys named above.

Everyone should give up on considering Isaac as a basketball player until he can provide some quality healthy time for an extended period. Seeing people make plans for the team's future involving him makes me feel ill - it's like trying to pretend Grant Hill will be as good as he used to all over again. He's gone all next season, and then how long do we evaluate with him before we decide he's proven healthy enough that we can factor him into crucial plans?

Bamba seems like someone we should cut free. We're clearly not going to give him the focus and attention he needs to really accelerate his growth whilst Vuc is here, and now he has health complications due to covid. Even without Vuc blocking his way, I'm not sure how long it takes for Mo to 'get it' even if his strength and conditioning comes through.

Fultz has skills, but he still looks scared on the court, and his engagement levels wax and wane too much for my liking.

Okeke hasn't touched the court yet. I have no expectations for him, and just hope that he hasn't lost too much of a step or rhythm after all his time off.

So next season we have Fultz, maybe Bamba, and whatever Okeke can offer. Plus whoever our rookie is.

That's a seriously depressing 'future' after 3 years of WeHam, unless they knock this next draft pick out of the park. We might be better off flipping youth and trying some new names.
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#53 » by Skin » Tue Sep 1, 2020 7:11 am

Bensational wrote:
Skin wrote:
The future needs to be focused on building the best team they can around Fultz, Okeke, Isaac, Bamba and their pick this year.


I'm with you moving Fournier being more or less inconsequential to the rest of the team. But I don't agree the team should be building a team around any of those guys named above.

Everyone should give up on considering Isaac as a basketball player until he can provide some quality healthy time for an extended period. Seeing people make plans for the team's future involving him makes me feel ill - it's like trying to pretend Grant Hill will be as good as he used to all over again. He's gone all next season, and then how long do we evaluate with him before we decide he's proven healthy enough that we can factor him into crucial plans?

Bamba seems like someone we should cut free. We're clearly not going to give him the focus and attention he needs to really accelerate his growth whilst Vuc is here, and now he has health complications due to covid. Even without Vuc blocking his way, I'm not sure how long it takes for Mo to 'get it' even if his strength and conditioning comes through.

Fultz has skills, but he still looks scared on the court, and his engagement levels wax and wane too much for my liking.

Okeke hasn't touched the court yet. I have no expectations for him, and just hope that he hasn't lost too much of a step or rhythm after all his time off.

So next season we have Fultz, maybe Bamba, and whatever Okeke can offer. Plus whoever our rookie is.

That's a seriously depressing 'future' after 3 years of WeHam, unless they knock this next draft pick out of the park. We might be better off flipping youth and trying some new names.

Understandable, but WeHam's vision has to be given a chance to sink or swim in order for this Front Office to be fairly graded. If it fails, they fail and must be replaced. If not, then they keep coasting by wasting more years. Maintaining status quo can seem like "winning" in the eyes of ownership because they are not "losing", but we all know that we are a floundering team with no future with our current leadership core of players.

You could be right OR you could be wrong. Honestly, a large part of this depends on coaching and development. Don't let semantics get in the way though. When I say we should build around these guys, I'm not saying "these are our stars that we need to permanently build around". I'm saying "these are our guys that we need to invest our focus on" right now because we need to figure out who to keep and who to not keep.

There is no T-Mac here who I'm saying we need to "build around". We should be in constant churn, developing and evaluating our talent. We did that with the young Payton, Oladipo, Fournier, Hezonja, Harris, Gordon, Vuc era. The problem is we pushed all the wrong buttons. We drafted for straight BPA (I prefer BPA that fills a need - unless it's a can't miss player). We overlapped talent, created an unbalanced roster, made bad trades, players competed with each other, divisions were created, we had poor chemistry, endured a lot of losing, hired the wrong coaches, Alex Martins tried to do damage control, didn't tank hard enough, spent money on the wrong FAs, etc etc etc.

Now here we are with Fultz, Okeke, Isaac, Bamba, 15. I'm happy that at least we haven't overlapped talent with premium draft picks. I'm happy that there seems to be a vision for the kind of team they want to build. Eventually we need to figure out if they are piece of the future or not. That's more along the lines of what I mean of building our future around them. If they hit on their drafted potential, I don't see why they couldn't be building blocks. Too early in my mind to make final determinations on them.
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#54 » by MagicFan101 » Tue Sep 1, 2020 1:20 pm

We saw progress from Fultz in a number of key areas this season.

Most of all, availability.

Second, while the shots didn’t fall as much as we wanted we were not cringing is utter disgust at the motion anymore ... No, it’s still not beautiful.

So he is also getting a tiny bit of his stroke back. Can he get all the way back? He was never Steph or Ray Allen but this kid could shoot kinda-sorta once upon a time. This isn’t some kid who never had it and was always a project.

I hope this season gave him some mojo. He needs to spend to offseason in the gym focusing on himself and remembering why he was the #1 Overall pick. Get that swagger back kid.
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#55 » by GatorbaitDD » Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:26 pm

Fultz just doesn't have the attitude, or decision making I want out of my lead guard long term. I like him off the ball, but that's if he can find a consistent jumper. We need to forget about the current roster structure and just try to acquire talent at lead guard.

I honestly think a guy like Cole Anthony, RJ Hampton, or Tyrese Maxey are who I target in the draft to bring in some healthy competition, plus upside.
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#56 » by jezzerinho » Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:57 pm

I think attitude above all is what he lacks so far. You saw him in so many games actually start aggressively, running the floor and scoring big early. Then he would just fade into the background or when the pace dropped and he was forced to do it in half court offence, teams would go under the screen and dare him to shoot.

Despite the shooting shortcomings, he's a talented kid but yet another maddeningly inconsistent guy who can dominate LeBron one day and be insignificant the next.

I would love a Jimmy B type in Orlando, who would demand the best from the talent we have.
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#57 » by J the Drafter » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:31 pm

Fultz will be a valuable player as long as he can break down defenses and make plays for himself or others. While a shot would help a lot, both to score and to provide spacing, dribble penetration and playmaking are crucial abilities.

Skin wrote:Fournier


I know you don’t like him, and that his passing needs improvement, but multiple players struggled with retiring to basketball after the COVID-enforced layoff. Looking at Fournier’s bubble stats and ignoring the context isn’t helpful in evaluating him.

Bensational wrote:Bamba seems like someone we should cut free. We're clearly not going to give him the focus and attention he needs to really accelerate his growth whilst Vuc is here, and now he has health complications due to covid. Even without Vuc blocking his way, I'm not sure how long it takes for Mo to 'get it' even if his strength and conditioning comes through.


Bamba won’t have any long-term COVID issues, according to the team. Vuc starting doesn’t stop Bamba from practicing and developing his body, either. If we didn’t have Vuc, we’d likely still be limiting Bamba’s court-time, because he’s not ready for more. I mean, do you really think the strength and conditioning staff aren’t going to make enough time to help Bamba develop because Vucevic is starting?
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#58 » by j-ragg » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:53 pm

J the Drafter wrote:I know you don’t like him, and that his passing needs improvement, but multiple players struggled with retiring to basketball after the COVID-enforced layoff. Looking at Fournier’s bubble stats and ignoring the context isn’t helpful in evaluating him.

Going into his 7th year with the Magic. Think what you want about Fournier, love or hate, but let's stop pretending like we haven't had enough evaluation years to understand who these guys are. He sucked last year in the playoffs even worse with no pandemic or bubble.
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#59 » by cedric76 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:21 pm

GatorbaitDD wrote:Fultz just doesn't have the attitude, or decision making I want out of my lead guard long term. I like him off the ball, but that's if he can find a consistent jumper. We need to forget about the current roster structure and just try to acquire talent at lead guard.

I honestly think a guy like Cole Anthony, RJ Hampton, or Tyrese Maxey are who I target in the draft to bring in some healthy competition, plus upside.



How can you like him off the ball?

He needs the ball in his hands, he is a PG
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#60 » by Bensational » Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:34 pm

J the Drafter wrote:
Bensational wrote:Bamba seems like someone we should cut free. We're clearly not going to give him the focus and attention he needs to really accelerate his growth whilst Vuc is here, and now he has health complications due to covid. Even without Vuc blocking his way, I'm not sure how long it takes for Mo to 'get it' even if his strength and conditioning comes through.


Bamba won’t have any long-term COVID issues, according to the team. Vuc starting doesn’t stop Bamba from practicing and developing his body, either. If we didn’t have Vuc, we’d likely still be limiting Bamba’s court-time, because he’s not ready for more. I mean, do you really think the strength and conditioning staff aren’t going to make enough time to help Bamba develop because Vucevic is starting?


I think the first concern for me is that when returning to the team at the start of this season, his cardio still wasn't up to scratch, after two full offseasons with the team, even in limited minutes. His improved physique shows he can apply himself when he wants, but getting the fitness to run and stay on the court doesn't sit high on his priority list apparently.

Then there's Cliff, who seems to hate the guy. Rarely has a good thing to say about him and seems like he doesn't want to play him. Perhaps it's because Cliff values the guys who are more hustle than skill (DJ being exempt from that apparently), and Bamba isn't a hustler?

Bamba will find his place in the league and start to hit his stride around 25. But by then I think he'll be sick of Orlando and counting down the days until he can leave. And for a team starved for playmakers, is rather flip him for someone with potential in that area rather than waiting to see when Bamba turns good and trying to build a team he'll stick around for.

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