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Markell Fultz

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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#21 » by MagicFan101 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:45 pm

zaymon wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:I don't think anythings wrong with taking wide open shots. He just needs to shoot every time he's open. Plus for appearance sake he should stop shooting heaves. If you subtract the 1-8 heaves for the year, including playoffs, he's shooting 29%.

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The problem is he gets the shots because the opponent currently allows him to. They don’t respect his shot.

If he starts hitting those wide open shots more regularly they have complete control over the situation, not Fultz. They can change their strategy and guard him, taking away his one deep shot entirely.

What does he do then?

If they start to guard him then he can use his hesi dribble style to get to the rim or pull up from midrange. It also makes more room for cutting teammates.


So he becomes Ben Simmons and never attempts 3s? That’s working out swell for them.

The point is he needs to become more aggressive, more confident and all around more consistent with that shot.
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#22 » by Knightro » Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:57 pm

There's just no scenario where Fultz can become a viable starting point guard on a good team without increasing both his willingness and effectiveness as a 3 point shooter.

He started all year for the Magic and they had a poor offense and a losing record.

His three point shooting has to develop more next season or he simply can't be a guy for the Magic to move forward with.
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#23 » by zaymon » Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:49 pm

MagicFan101 wrote:
zaymon wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:
The problem is he gets the shots because the opponent currently allows him to. They don’t respect his shot.

If he starts hitting those wide open shots more regularly they have complete control over the situation, not Fultz. They can change their strategy and guard him, taking away his one deep shot entirely.

What does he do then?

If they start to guard him then he can use his hesi dribble style to get to the rim or pull up from midrange. It also makes more room for cutting teammates.


So he becomes Ben Simmons and never attempts 3s? That’s working out swell for them.

The point is he needs to become more aggressive, more confident and all around more consistent with that shot.

I think you misunderstood me. His shot needs to get better. As we all now there is a limit where Vucevic and Fournier can get us without legitimate lead ball handler. In the long run he needs to have a pull up 3 pointer, without it he will never be more than below average starter. Him being guarded at the 3 point line doesnt make him Simmons who is being left wide open at all occasions.
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#24 » by NotACat » Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:53 pm

Knightro wrote:There's just no scenario where Fultz can become a viable starting point guard on a good team without increasing both his willingness and effectiveness as a 3 point shooter.

He started all year for the Magic and they had a poor offense and a losing record.

His three point shooting has to develop more next season or he simply can't be a guy for the Magic to move forward with.

19-20 regular season: 26.7% on 1.9 attempts a game
19-20 playoffs: 45.5% on 2.8 attempts a game

He's playing just one more minute per game in the playoffs vs the regular season. He just turned 22. I'm a believer.
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#25 » by GelbeWand09 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:48 pm

NotACat wrote:
Knightro wrote:There's just no scenario where Fultz can become a viable starting point guard on a good team without increasing both his willingness and effectiveness as a 3 point shooter.

He started all year for the Magic and they had a poor offense and a losing record.

His three point shooting has to develop more next season or he simply can't be a guy for the Magic to move forward with.

19-20 regular season: 26.7% on 1.9 attempts a game
19-20 playoffs: 45.5% on 2.8 attempts a game

He's playing just one more minute per game in the playoffs vs the regular season. He just turned 22. I'm a believer.


The problem is with his current shooting form, i doubt he will ever be a reliable/respected 3Point shooter, no matter the occasionally hot streak on wide open attempts. Question is, if he is able to shoot with a normal form from that distance in the future or if his shoulder doesnt allow it. I hope so for us & him, but i'm more in the half empty section to be honest.
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#26 » by zaymon » Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:48 pm

GelbeWand09 wrote:
NotACat wrote:
Knightro wrote:There's just no scenario where Fultz can become a viable starting point guard on a good team without increasing both his willingness and effectiveness as a 3 point shooter.

He started all year for the Magic and they had a poor offense and a losing record.

His three point shooting has to develop more next season or he simply can't be a guy for the Magic to move forward with.

19-20 regular season: 26.7% on 1.9 attempts a game
19-20 playoffs: 45.5% on 2.8 attempts a game

He's playing just one more minute per game in the playoffs vs the regular season. He just turned 22. I'm a believer.


The problem is with his current shooting form, i doubt he will ever be a reliable/respected 3Point shooter, no matter the occasionally hot streak on wide open attempts. Question is, if he is able to shoot with a normal form from that distance in the future or if his shoulder doesnt allow it. I hope so for us & him, but i'm more in the half empty section to be honest.

i think even Markelle doesnt know it but the progress is visible and his pull up range is longer and longer. His last game was very immpressive and against Bucks which limit his greatest strength.
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#27 » by Skin » Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:26 pm

Knightro wrote:There's just no scenario where Fultz can become a viable starting point guard on a good team without increasing both his willingness and effectiveness as a 3 point shooter.

He started all year for the Magic and they had a poor offense and a losing record.

His three point shooting has to develop more next season or he simply can't be a guy for the Magic to move forward with.

Dwayne Wade and Demar DeRozan were not PGs... well... Wade was at times, but you could say it would be even worse for your SG to not have a 3pt shot. However they made/make it work because they had the skills and mentality to attack on the drive and also hit pull up 2s. Right now that is where Markelle is at.

That's not to say he will never expand his range. He's just not there yet. Obviously it is a focus for him. But also let's not overreact. He's shooting 45.5% from 2.8 attempts per game in the playoffs. They are nice open shots, but he's playing smart... letting the game come to him... not forcing bad shots... doing what he needs to do so that they eventually start to pay attention. Even the attempt to take a 3 more often would open up opportunities for him and others. Look at Ross and Fournier who shoot unconsciously at bad percentages. They are creating the effect that they are a threat when they really are just hot and cold depending on the day.
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#28 » by pepe1991 » Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:48 am

He made 5 threes in 4 games. It's not like he is on Dame Time- Lillard pulling out contested 3s from 40 feet
Not a single 3 he made was contested at all

Image


Image


and ones who he misses

they are same shots.
Nobody near him.

Image

And despite being 5/11 for 3, his playoffs TS is actually much worst than in regular season ( 47,7%).
But once again, it's not about making or missing shots, it's about commanding attention. No matter how crappy Ross and Evan can shoot ( and do shoot at times, pretty much whole playoffs) ,their defenders can't just walk off them and camp on other side of the floor to contain Vuc.

In all 3 pics, his defender is more interested into doubling Vuc than covering him. It's by design of defense. Magic won't beat anybody with Fultz jumpers. And that's why DJ plays so much. He is overdribbling basketball midget who can't put shots up because he is like 4 foot tall, but nobody will leave him wide open.
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#29 » by Skybox » Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:12 pm

Baby steps...I can't criticize him for taking uncontested 3's or for opposition daring him. Good game plan for now. He's looking for contested 3's to take but can't create any :lol:
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#30 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:54 pm

pepe1991 wrote:He made 5 threes in 4 games. It's not like he is on Dame Time- Lillard pulling out contested 3s from 40 feet
Not a single 3 he made was contested at all

Image


Image


and ones who he misses

they are same shots.
Nobody near him.

Image

And despite being 5/11 for 3, his playoffs TS is actually much worst than in regular season ( 47,7%).
But once again, it's not about making or missing shots, it's about commanding attention. No matter how crappy Ross and Evan can shoot ( and do shoot at times, pretty much whole playoffs) ,their defenders can't just walk off them and camp on other side of the floor to contain Vuc.

In all 3 pics, his defender is more interested into doubling Vuc than covering him. It's by design of defense. Magic won't beat anybody with Fultz jumpers. And that's why DJ plays so much. He is overdribbling basketball midget who can't put shots up because he is like 4 foot tall, but nobody will leave him wide open.


baby steps IMO, at least he's taking them unlike Iwundu who will double clutch and drive the lane. Don't think Fultz will get average but it's at least a shot.
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#31 » by TheGlyde » Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:24 am

pepe1991 wrote:He made 5 threes in 4 games. It's not like he is on Dame Time- Lillard pulling out contested 3s from 40 feet
Not a single 3 he made was contested at all

~images snipped to save vertical space~

and ones who he misses

~images snipped to save vertical space~

they are same shots.
Nobody near him.

And despite being 5/11 for 3, his playoffs TS is actually much worst than in regular season ( 47,7%).
But once again, it's not about making or missing shots, it's about commanding attention. No matter how crappy Ross and Evan can shoot ( and do shoot at times, pretty much whole playoffs) ,their defenders can't just walk off them and camp on other side of the floor to contain Vuc.

In all 3 pics, his defender is more interested into doubling Vuc than covering him. It's by design of defense. Magic won't beat anybody with Fultz jumpers. And that's why DJ plays so much. He is overdribbling basketball midget who can't put shots up because he is like 4 foot tall, but nobody will leave him wide open.


I agree with most of your points.

It's very clear that the playoffs is a small sample size (remember the "best midrange shooting percentages since the all star break" stat? Well now Kelle's midrange game has gone down hill since) that we can't really get excited about.

I mean, is 5-11 better than if Fultz had shot 7-25 (Ross) or 9-28 (Fournier), sure, but as you point out that is an apples to oranges comparison influenced by the quality of the shots.

I agree he needs to vastly increase his percentages to draw attention/defence away from Vuc/others, and improve his mechanics as right now the only way he has enough time to get that ugly push off without getting blocked is when he catches the ball and is wide open on the catch.

So why am I replying? :lol:

Just the smallest of things really; just because you receive the ball when you are wide open, doesn't mean that your shot is not contested.

Example:
Image

Image
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#32 » by basketballRob » Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:40 am

TheGlyde wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:He made 5 threes in 4 games. It's not like he is on Dame Time- Lillard pulling out contested 3s from 40 feet
Not a single 3 he made was contested at all

~images snipped to save vertical space~

and ones who he misses

~images snipped to save vertical space~

they are same shots.
Nobody near him.

And despite being 5/11 for 3, his playoffs TS is actually much worst than in regular season ( 47,7%).
But once again, it's not about making or missing shots, it's about commanding attention. No matter how crappy Ross and Evan can shoot ( and do shoot at times, pretty much whole playoffs) ,their defenders can't just walk off them and camp on other side of the floor to contain Vuc.

In all 3 pics, his defender is more interested into doubling Vuc than covering him. It's by design of defense. Magic won't beat anybody with Fultz jumpers. And that's why DJ plays so much. He is overdribbling basketball midget who can't put shots up because he is like 4 foot tall, but nobody will leave him wide open.


I agree with most of your points.

It's very clear that the playoffs is a small sample size (remember the "best midrange shooting percentages since the all star break" stat? Well now Kelle's midrange game has gone down hill since) that we can't really get excited about.

I mean, is 5-11 better than if Fultz had shot 7-25 (Ross) or 9-28 (Fournier), sure, but as you point out that is an apples to oranges comparison influenced by the quality of the shots.

I agree he needs to vastly increase his percentages to draw attention/defence away from Vuc/others, and improve his mechanics as right now the only way he has enough time to get that ugly push off without getting blocked is when he catches the ball and is wide open on the catch.

So why am I replying?

Just the smallest of things really; just because you receive the ball when you are wide open, doesn't mean that your shot is not contested.

Example:
Image

Image
I don't recall seeing Fournier making a guarded 3 during the series.

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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#33 » by TheGlyde » Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:00 am

basketballRob wrote:
I don't recall seeing Fournier making a guarded 3 during the series.



These were his 3 makes from game 4:
Image
Image
Image

I would say the 2nd one was pretty heavily contested... 3rd one was quite open.

From looking through the film, many of his 6misses in game 4 were less contested than these first two, so he has been getting some open looks... At least by game 4 anyway as the Bucks have realised he's in a slump and they don't need to be as close.
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#34 » by basketballRob » Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:50 am

TheGlyde wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
I don't recall seeing Fournier making a guarded 3 during the series.



These were his 3 makes from game 4:
Image
Image
Image

I would say the 2nd one was pretty heavily contested... 3rd one was quite open.

From looking through the film, many of his 6misses in game 4 were less contested than these first two, so he has been getting some open looks... At least by game 4 anyway as the Bucks have realised he's in a slump and they don't need to be as close.
I remember him getting hitting 3 wide open shots late in one game. He needs some space unlike Ross who elevates so high on his jump shots.

Thanks for the research.

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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#35 » by Skin » Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:50 am

Must watch. Everyone except pepe is bound to enjoy it.

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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#36 » by MagicHolland » Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:34 pm

I think he was pretty good for his “rookie” season. He brings a much needed skill to the table. Creating of the dribble. I’m excited but he does need to improve his outside shooting for him and the Magic to take the next step. I’m still a believer.
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#37 » by ARandomStranger » Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:00 pm

I can easily see Markelle being a 20 ppg guy and constantly flirting with double doubles with points and assists.

And that is without a pull up three.

I get people want more than that, but in all honesty I think just being able to hit open 3s is enough for now and should be enough to force defenses to adjust to him. Would I love for him to pull up from behind the line? Sure, but I've tempered my expectations, and am fine with him just being willing to take 3s at all.

This Markelle is after all a hundred times more reliable than Philly Markelle and I have faith that even if he doesn't become a three point marksman he will still bring playmaking, mid range, transition offense, defense, and drives.

That is still a capable starter in the NBA.
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#38 » by dsg2021 » Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:32 pm

I have been so impressed by him this year and in the playoffs. I am only rooting for him, and I think he might get his first All Star nod in a couple more seasons.
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#39 » by tiderulz » Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:31 pm

ARandomStranger wrote:I can easily see Markelle being a 20 ppg guy and constantly flirting with double doubles with points and assists.

And that is without a pull up three.

I get people want more than that, but in all honesty I think just being able to hit open 3s is enough for now and should be enough to force defenses to adjust to him. Would I love for him to pull up from behind the line? Sure, but I've tempered my expectations, and am fine with him just being willing to take 3s at all.

This Markelle is after all a hundred times more reliable than Philly Markelle and I have faith that even if he doesn't become a three point marksman he will still bring playmaking, mid range, transition offense, defense, and drives.

That is still a capable starter in the NBA.

i cant. that 3 pt shot will be a requirement, if nothing else to give him space to drive. otherwise teams will sit back on him and his driving lanes will be smaller.
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Re: Markell Fultz 

Post#40 » by Skin » Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:21 pm

tiderulz wrote:
ARandomStranger wrote:I can easily see Markelle being a 20 ppg guy and constantly flirting with double doubles with points and assists.

And that is without a pull up three.

I get people want more than that, but in all honesty I think just being able to hit open 3s is enough for now and should be enough to force defenses to adjust to him. Would I love for him to pull up from behind the line? Sure, but I've tempered my expectations, and am fine with him just being willing to take 3s at all.

This Markelle is after all a hundred times more reliable than Philly Markelle and I have faith that even if he doesn't become a three point marksman he will still bring playmaking, mid range, transition offense, defense, and drives.

That is still a capable starter in the NBA.

i cant. that 3 pt shot will be a requirement, if nothing else to give him space to drive. otherwise teams will sit back on him and his driving lanes will be smaller.

Well there is some give and take on that opinion. Driving lanes would be open if we had other players capable of hitting 3s as well. I'm not taking about guys who can hit 3s some days and lay bricks other days (which we currently have).

Fournier, Ross and Ennis is just not gonna cut it. Vuc has been great and Bamba can spread the floor as well, so no worry there. But our 2 and 3 spots are terrible.

Hoping that a healthy Okeke translates because he is an ideal pairing theoretically. His shot is wet.
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