The Offseason thread

[KillMonger]

The #5 slot is not a slot Orlando would strive to move up towards. That is what I was trying to get at. It is Gordon and the #15 for the #2 or an expiring and the #15 for the #9. Those are the kinds of trades Orlando could be imagined to go for.

My point is that : the Cavs was horrible and gets to select 5th. The Hawks was horrible (but for a different reason) and gets to select 6th. Similar for the Pistons at 7th.

And the worst managed franchise in basketball, the Knickerbockers, tanked their way to the 8th pick.

"Blowing it up" can no longer be a management strategy.

Certainly worked for the Mavs with Doncic.

tanking actually worked back then for the most part.....less effective now

[Optimus_Steel]

I do not understand. Please expand.

5 and 15 are draft pick spots. It's be easier for us to move up with a better pick.

One anonimus executive told Brian Windhorst that he expects first round picks to be sold for cash this year due lack of money to go around.
That's new NBA and 2020 draft. You probably can buy your way into lottery by attaching some player and bag of money.

One owner said

"I don't know what will happen, but I may lose $50 million next season," one owner told ESPN. "If that happens, I have three options: I could borrow the money, I could sell part of the team or I could do a cash call and me and my partners would have to write checks."

This is part of us understands that tanking isn't even option. Not for Magic but for not a single nba team in upcomming years. Simply terrible money situation.

I don't know who that owner is but every team was worth atleast $1.3 billion at the start of the year so if they lose $50 mill as he claims they'll be ok.

[The Effect]

5 and 15 are draft pick spots. It's be easier for us to move up with a better pick.

One anonimus executive told Brian Windhorst that he expects first round picks to be sold for cash this year due lack of money to go around.
That's new NBA and 2020 draft. You probably can buy your way into lottery by attaching some player and bag of money.

One owner said

"I don't know what will happen, but I may lose $50 million next season," one owner told ESPN. "If that happens, I have three options: I could borrow the money, I could sell part of the team or I could do a cash call and me and my partners would have to write checks."

This is part of us understands that tanking isn't even option. Not for Magic but for not a single nba team in upcomming years. Simply terrible money situation.

I don't know who that owner is but every team was worth atleast $1.3 billion at the start of the year so if they lose $50 mill as he claims they'll be ok.

Being worth that and having that are two different things

I know living in San Diego all about owners who have no money outside the value of the team
Dean spanos (chargers owner) had a net worth of something like 1.3B, but the team was worth 1.2b, so outside the team, he didn't have much (relatively speaking).

[Skin]

But there is no GM in the world without some turd. Warriors between Curry and Klay drafted with highest pick they had - Ekpe Udoh.

As for Adebayo and letting him breath, look at year 2. 9 points, 7 rebounds ,1 steal, 1 block, 2,2 assists, 62% TS ,1,8 BPM, positive value of taken shots, 71% shooting inside 3 feet, 40% mid range , while in same time being 61% EFG scorer in pick&rolls as rolling man AAAND being the best pick& roll defending big man , according to efficiency.

All that at age of 22. Doesn't that scream " give him more playing time" ? Not to mention in same time having declining Whiteside.

And it only takes you 5 min to actually see how Bam moves to see he is Ferrari and Bamba is... Fiat Multipla. I watched nba playoffs with friend who isn't even fan of nba and after 4 min of watching Heat he asked "who is that tall fast guy" ... it was Adebayo. His mobility for center is remarkable. He defends smaller players better than any center in current nba . And he is such a solid passer for center. Like, he doesn't get trapped - at all.

Main issue with Bamba was drafting him. Wasting lottery pick for center without any basketball skills other than being tall, with long limbs, and not athletic, was all red flags good GM needs to pass on him. But our GM drafted Henson and Maker so let's not pretend he is good at evaluating centers. Oh he also gave worst Plumlee brother some epic contract, i just forgot how much. All i know guy was out of nba year and half later.
Nobody forced Magic into drafting x1,2 speeded version of Roy Hibbert, we did that to ourselfs. And one day that 2018 draft will cost them their job , or at least will be argument for them losing their job.

Not comparing Adebayo to Bamba. Different strengths and weakenesses. Don't change the FG posts. You tried to say 3rd year players don't break out. I've been saying we gotta move Vuc. Whiteside was moved and that created a huge opportunity for Adebayo's All-Star year.

I don't think it happens in a vacuum though. We aren't just looking at two players on paper and saying "look at these per36 numbers man!" These guys are evaulated daily in practice.

I imagine during/after 2018-19 the Heat evaluated Bam and Whiteside in practice side by side, multiple times, and determined Bam was ready to take the leap, and Whiteside was on the decline, and so then you make the move.

If (and I'm not saying it's guaranteed, but I think it is likely), Vuc is having his way with Bamba each and every day in practice, in multiple facets of the game, theres just no incentive there to move Vuc on and give Bamba the minutes when it means less wins, less sponsors, less fan interest, less merch (how are those Bamba jerseys selling in Switzerland?) and less money for the team as a whole in a cash strapped NBA.

Both have 3pt range but Vuc is a better rebounder, passer, screener with infinetely better midrange and post up game (even though he rushes things often). Bamba over Vuc I see only has one advantage and that is his natural instincts for weak side help shot blocking.

The hope would be for them to keep battling in practice week in and week out, until we get to a spot where Bamba is at least close to Vuc in whatever roles they want the C to fill.

The fact that Birch went from 3rd string to starting when Vuc rolled his ankle tells us we aren't there yet. Bamba has MUCH better shooting range than Birch, but again Birch is a better screener, rebounder, man to man defender and showed a nice inside game in the bubble. They both have bad hands for passing and catching, and Bamba again has the better rim protection.

Cliff was giving Bamba the 2nd unit minutes, over Birch who I would surmise outplays him in practice in most facets as above, because this was seen as a small negative in favour of Bamba's long term development.

But when Vuc went down, starting Bamba was determined to be high risk, low reward, and Birch started in his place.

Until he can outplay Birch in practice and closes the gap to Vuc, I think we hold onto Vuc and keep Bamba in the 2nd unit. Once he is outplaying him, or at least close to it, I think thats a different story and we saw that theory hold true with Fultz being inserted into the starting lineup over DJ.

I agree that Bam's situation was different due to Whiteside showing signs of decline, and there probably were signs that he was the better player in practice, but regardless... the opportunity for playing time is what gave him a chance to turn in an All Star performance.

Vuc is a better overall player than Bamba, but he lacks the one thing that I think is most important from the modern C position. Rim protection. Vuc is not declining like Whiteside showed. Judging them in practice is not going to do Bamba (especially in year 2) any favors.

But what is the goal here? Winning?...when we don't have a contender? Developing?...when we are favoring our vets? Both lost causes. Can we have a real direction? Like Winning... and pawning off youth and future draft picks for immediate impactful vets. Or Developing... and pawning off Henny's guys in order for WeHam's guys to have a chance to blossom? Trying to dump bad contracts and acquire future picks?

Maybe I'm overreacting. Maybe we're just in transition. I know that Bamba hasn't been ready to step into the starters role. That's not where my frustrations stems. My issue is that they gave Vuc a new 4 year deal. They drafted Bamba with a premium pick which says "this is our C of the future", and then proceeded to road block him? So much confusion... But like I said, maybe I'm overreacting... maybe Vuc is trade bait in a season or two.

Whiteside was included in a trade that brought Butler to Miami. That is high level GM'ing. I want WeHam to show us some high level GM'ing too. Getting Fultz for potato chips was a great move. Now let's stack more good moves on top of it.

[Skin]

Certainly worked for the Mavs with Doncic.

tanking actually worked back then for the most part.....less effective now

Less effective, but Golden St is still smiling with the #2 pick.



Meanwhile in Orlando...

[KillMonger]

tanking actually worked back then for the most part.....less effective now

Less effective, but Golden St is still smiling with the #2 pick.



Meanwhile in Orlando...

welcome to the Orlando Magic....bro we've never tanked right....so to expect anything different is kinda.....plus using that GS team? that was the perfect combination of bad injury luck to their best players(mostly) Actually commiting to the tank and also having a roster full of players if you switched out with their affiliate g-league team fans wouldn't know the difference beyond draymond...For every GS theres a knick team that did damn near everything they could to tank and got 8th....This team? Will never commit to a tank especially as long as Clifford is coach he would never tank on purpose just like Vogel said he would never purposely tank when he was here.....it would have to be purely by accident that we're bad enough to have a top 5 pick going forward.....

We should be collecting picks instead of selling them like we have been but i think we sell picks for cap reasons i guess so i can understand that....but the more picks you have the more flexibility you have or more chances to hit on a future good player...i think we're going to sell our second rounder again this year, weltman touched on the draft in his interview and didn't even mention the second rounder we got

[Skin]

welcome to the Orlando Magic....bro we've never tanked right....so to expect anything different is kinda.....plus using that GS team? that was the perfect combination of bad injury luck to their best players(mostly) Actually commiting to the tank and also having a roster full of players if you switched out with their affiliate g-league team fans wouldn't know the difference beyond draymond...For every GS theres a knick team that did damn near everything they could to tank and got 8th....This team? Will never commit to a tank especially as long as Clifford is coach he would never tank on purpose just like Vogel said he would never purposely tank when he was here.....it would have to be purely by accident that we're bad enough to have a top 5 pick going forward.....

We should be collecting picks instead of selling them like we have been but i think we sell picks for cap reasons i guess so i can understand that....but the more picks you have the more flexibility you have or more chances to hit on a future good player...i think we're going to sell our second rounder again this year, weltman touched on the draft in his interview and didn't even mention the second rounder we got

Knicks got a top 3 pick and took RJ Barrett. Thought he put together a damn good rookie season.

Tanking strategy is still a way to get you talent. Not as easy odds for the very worst team, but better odds for everyone else. Seeing as the Magic never tanked right to begin with, maybe the new system fits us better than before.

[Drygon]

That philosophy led to the Magic dumping Hedo after the 2009 Finals and bringing in Vince Carter to be a 'Kobe like scorer', and the team kept digging itself into a deeper hole and got worse each of the next 3 years until Dwight left.

Hedo was fecking awful & became shell of his former self right after leaving Magic.

It was the right decision to cut him off from the team.

Vince Carter was 34 years old & clearly past his prime, he never should've had such a big role for Magic's offense.

[KillMonger]

welcome to the Orlando Magic....bro we've never tanked right....so to expect anything different is kinda.....plus using that GS team? that was the perfect combination of bad injury luck to their best players(mostly) Actually commiting to the tank and also having a roster full of players if you switched out with their affiliate g-league team fans wouldn't know the difference beyond draymond...For every GS theres a knick team that did damn near everything they could to tank and got 8th....This team? Will never commit to a tank especially as long as Clifford is coach he would never tank on purpose just like Vogel said he would never purposely tank when he was here.....it would have to be purely by accident that we're bad enough to have a top 5 pick going forward.....

We should be collecting picks instead of selling them like we have been but i think we sell picks for cap reasons i guess so i can understand that....but the more picks you have the more flexibility you have or more chances to hit on a future good player...i think we're going to sell our second rounder again this year, weltman touched on the draft in his interview and didn't even mention the second rounder we got

Knicks got a top 3 pick and took RJ Barrett. Thought he put together a damn good rookie season.

Tanking strategy is still a way to get you talent. Not as easy odds for the very worst team, but better odds for everyone else. Seeing as the Magic never tanked right to begin with, maybe the new system fits us better than before.

perhaps but look around man, look at where we are at.......



Look at who's in charge? we'll never be as bad as we need to be or good enough to make any noise unless we change the way we do business....our ownership/FO is too content with how things are unfolding.....i'm scared they actually think that after all those years of sucking and being at the bottom of the barrel that a few first round exits is a win.....this organization has a thing with moral victories

[TheGlyde]

Not comparing Adebayo to Bamba. Different strengths and weakenesses. Don't change the FG posts. You tried to say 3rd year players don't break out. I've been saying we gotta move Vuc. Whiteside was moved and that created a huge opportunity for Adebayo's All-Star year.

I don't think it happens in a vacuum though. We aren't just looking at two players on paper and saying "look at these per36 numbers man!" These guys are evaulated daily in practice.

I imagine during/after 2018-19 the Heat evaluated Bam and Whiteside in practice side by side, multiple times, and determined Bam was ready to take the leap, and Whiteside was on the decline, and so then you make the move.

If (and I'm not saying it's guaranteed, but I think it is likely), Vuc is having his way with Bamba each and every day in practice, in multiple facets of the game, theres just no incentive there to move Vuc on and give Bamba the minutes when it means less wins, less sponsors, less fan interest, less merch (how are those Bamba jerseys selling in Switzerland?) and less money for the team as a whole in a cash strapped NBA.

Both have 3pt range but Vuc is a better rebounder, passer, screener with infinetely better midrange and post up game (even though he rushes things often). Bamba over Vuc I see only has one advantage and that is his natural instincts for weak side help shot blocking.

The hope would be for them to keep battling in practice week in and week out, until we get to a spot where Bamba is at least close to Vuc in whatever roles they want the C to fill.

The fact that Birch went from 3rd string to starting when Vuc rolled his ankle tells us we aren't there yet. Bamba has MUCH better shooting range than Birch, but again Birch is a better screener, rebounder, man to man defender and showed a nice inside game in the bubble. They both have bad hands for passing and catching, and Bamba again has the better rim protection.

Cliff was giving Bamba the 2nd unit minutes, over Birch who I would surmise outplays him in practice in most facets as above, because this was seen as a small negative in favour of Bamba's long term development.

But when Vuc went down, starting Bamba was determined to be high risk, low reward, and Birch started in his place.

Until he can outplay Birch in practice and closes the gap to Vuc, I think we hold onto Vuc and keep Bamba in the 2nd unit. Once he is outplaying him, or at least close to it, I think thats a different story and we saw that theory hold true with Fultz being inserted into the starting lineup over DJ.

I agree that Bam's situation was different due to Whiteside showing signs of decline, and there probably were signs that he was the better player in practice, but regardless... the opportunity for playing time is what gave him a chance to turn in an All Star performance.

Vuc is a better overall player than Bamba, but he lacks the one thing that I think is most important from the modern C position. Rim protection. Vuc is not declining like Whiteside showed. Judging them in practice is not going to do Bamba (especially in year 2) any favors.

But what is the goal here? Winning?...when we don't have a contender? Developing?...when we are favoring our vets? Both lost causes. Can we have a real direction? Like Winning... and pawning off youth and future draft picks for immediate impactful vets. Or Developing... and pawning off Henny's guys in order for WeHam's guys to have a chance to blossom? Trying to dump bad contracts and acquire future picks?

Maybe I'm overreacting. Maybe we're just in transition. I know that Bamba hasn't been ready to step into the starters role. That's not where my frustrations stems. My issue is that they gave Vuc a new 4 year deal. They drafted Bamba with a premium pick which says "this is our C of the future", and then proceeded to road block him? So much confusion... But like I said, maybe I'm overreacting... maybe Vuc is trade bait in a season or two.

Whiteside was included in a trade that brought Butler to Miami. That is high level GM'ing. I want WeHam to show us some high level GM'ing too. Getting Fultz for potato chips was a great move. Now let's stack more good moves on top of it.

The goal here, in all reality, is for the team to make enough money to not be sold and leave town.

Yes, the DeVos family is worth billions, but you don't get billions in your pocket by continuing to pour money into a business if it isn't making you a profit year by year (and I'm sure it didn't for several years post Dwight).

So the goal here is for the team to make money. Sell tickets. Improve TV deals. Get sponsors. Sell merch etc.

I think they drafted Bamba as BPA as insurance if Vuc left in FA, and with a hope to taking over from him once he was ready. Along the way we have had Bamba injuries and Vuc improvements, which in addition to the above monetary factors delays the replacement.

I made a comment earlier about Vuc copping flack around here when the only thing he doesn't really do well is rim protect, and Starwipe said I was way off for it, but there it is in your post.

That philosophy led to the Magic dumping Hedo after the 2009 Finals and bringing in Vince Carter to be a 'Kobe like scorer', and the team kept digging itself into a deeper hole and got worse each of the next 3 years until Dwight left.

Hedo was fecking awful & became shell of his former self right after leaving Magic.

It was the right decision to cut him off from the team.

Vince Carter was 34 years old & clearly past his prime, he never should've had such a big role for Magic's offense.

Hedo's role changed drastically from how SVG was utilising him.

If he stayed here he would have stayed in that role and we could have gotten another year or two out of him, at least.

The decline would have been there but it would have been more gradual (Like Rashard's was from 18ppg -> 17 -> 14 -> 12) and we absolutely would have gotten more out of him that Toronto and Phoenix did.

[J the Drafter]

Hedo's role changed drastically from how SVG was utilising him.

If he stayed here he would have stayed in that role and we could have gotten another year or two out of him, at least.

The decline would have been there but it would have been more gradual (Like Rashard's was from 18ppg -> 17 -> 14 -> 12) and we absolutely would have gotten more out of him that Toronto and Phoenix did.

Honestly, the Magic should have found a way to keep both, though Hedo may have demanded too much money for that. That way Vince and Jameer could focus on being scorers while Hedo ran the offense. Stan spent most of the year unsure of how to construct the offense without Hedo’s playmaking, and the solution the team found—relying on Dwight drawing a hard double-team—got the Magic in trouble once they faced an opponent with the personnel and willingness to thwart that plan.

[pepe1991]

welcome to the Orlando Magic....bro we've never tanked right....so to expect anything different is kinda.....plus using that GS team? that was the perfect combination of bad injury luck to their best players(mostly) Actually commiting to the tank and also having a roster full of players if you switched out with their affiliate g-league team fans wouldn't know the difference beyond draymond...For every GS theres a knick team that did damn near everything they could to tank and got 8th....This team? Will never commit to a tank especially as long as Clifford is coach he would never tank on purpose just like Vogel said he would never purposely tank when he was here.....it would have to be purely by accident that we're bad enough to have a top 5 pick going forward.....

We should be collecting picks instead of selling them like we have been but i think we sell picks for cap reasons i guess so i can understand that....but the more picks you have the more flexibility you have or more chances to hit on a future good player...i think we're going to sell our second rounder again this year, weltman touched on the draft in his interview and didn't even mention the second rounder we got

Knicks got a top 3 pick and took RJ Barrett. Thought he put together a damn good rookie season.

Tanking strategy is still a way to get you talent. Not as easy odds for the very worst team, but better odds for everyone else. Seeing as the Magic never tanked right to begin with, maybe the new system fits us better than before.

RJ Barret put 14 ppg on 13 shots, while shooting 47,9% TS and liability on offense and defense. Where i won't kill him for being Wiggins vol2 (yet), it's no secret Kevin Knox, another poor man Wiggins on same team, also had counting numbers year prior , in rookie year, and just kept being black hole to the point where even Knicks menagment figured he is not worth starting nor investing too much time into.

I don't watch enough Knicks but even reading their forums and just looking at numbers, highlights, it's not hard to see why they are so depressed. Their 2 lottery picks strike as this two gems



There is just not Mike Conley nor Z Bo nor M. Gasol to keep team afloat.

This is nothing new, RJ was low efficiency, high usage scorer at college, same with K. Knox. Especially RJ, who couldn't even reach college level efficiency while playing on one of most talented college teams. Sometimes ink of player's future already dried, people just want to see more than it's there.
Just track RJ's FTs and 3 point shooting. It's not hard to see he is shooting guard who can't shoot, pretty horrific iso scorer ( like, the
worst iso scorer for 2019-20 season ) and not so great nor gifted passer.

Not to pad myself on the back, but both RJ and Reddish are execlly i thought they will be in nba. Where Morat is even more than i expected.

[pepe1991]

5 and 15 are draft pick spots. It's be easier for us to move up with a better pick.

One anonimus executive told Brian Windhorst that he expects first round picks to be sold for cash this year due lack of money to go around.
That's new NBA and 2020 draft. You probably can buy your way into lottery by attaching some player and bag of money.

One owner said

"I don't know what will happen, but I may lose $50 million next season," one owner told ESPN. "If that happens, I have three options: I could borrow the money, I could sell part of the team or I could do a cash call and me and my partners would have to write checks."

This is part of us understands that tanking isn't even option. Not for Magic but for not a single nba team in upcomming years. Simply terrible money situation.

I don't know who that owner is but every team was worth atleast $1.3 billion at the start of the year so if they lose $50 mill as he claims they'll be ok.

There is clear difference between turning profit or losing money and being worth.
Most companies who lose money still have huge value to be sold, as they have infastrucutre, land, buildings, machinery, human resources that on it's own is worth a lot.

Also most owners in NBA, own other things, their goal is to have self- founding company. In other words, for example if you own a team, factory and some agency, you want team to turn profit without needing to "save" it by pouring fonds from one company to another, because at some moment, one that makes more money, will also need additional investments , and it's best to use reserves from that company. Or domino effect of crumbling companies will suck all the money out of owner fast, as in panic they will take huge loans or/and credits. Google Sean Quinn and how to lose over 3 billion dollars while investing in national bank

“The truth is, things are changing so fast that, when it comes to next season, the best we can do is put a stake in the ground and make a guess,” an Eastern Conference team president said. “The reality is nobody is probably going to operate in the black next season.

“The only question is how much each of us are going to lose.”

Silver said around 40%, but it's probably even more, that's how much revenue comes from direct ticket sale.

If SIlver has any "ballhandling" on it's own, and wants to sve NBA from total financial crumbling, he will need to reduce guareanteed salary of players. It's almost inevitable scenario at this point. COV 19 won't go away any time soon.

[Skin]

welcome to the Orlando Magic....bro we've never tanked right....so to expect anything different is kinda.....plus using that GS team? that was the perfect combination of bad injury luck to their best players(mostly) Actually commiting to the tank and also having a roster full of players if you switched out with their affiliate g-league team fans wouldn't know the difference beyond draymond...For every GS theres a knick team that did damn near everything they could to tank and got 8th....This team? Will never commit to a tank especially as long as Clifford is coach he would never tank on purpose just like Vogel said he would never purposely tank when he was here.....it would have to be purely by accident that we're bad enough to have a top 5 pick going forward.....

We should be collecting picks instead of selling them like we have been but i think we sell picks for cap reasons i guess so i can understand that....but the more picks you have the more flexibility you have or more chances to hit on a future good player...i think we're going to sell our second rounder again this year, weltman touched on the draft in his interview and didn't even mention the second rounder we got

Knicks got a top 3 pick and took RJ Barrett. Thought he put together a damn good rookie season.

Tanking strategy is still a way to get you talent. Not as easy odds for the very worst team, but better odds for everyone else. Seeing as the Magic never tanked right to begin with, maybe the new system fits us better than before.

RJ Barret put 14 ppg on 13 shots, while shooting 47,9% TS and liability on offense and defense. Where i won't kill him for being Wiggins vol2 (yet), it's no secret Kevin Knox, another poor man Wiggins on same team, also had counting numbers year prior , in rookie year, and just kept being black hole to the point where even Knicks menagment figured he is not worth starting nor investing too much time into.

I don't watch enough Knicks but even reading their forums and just looking at numbers, highlights, it's not hard to see why they are so depressed. Their 2 lottery picks strike as this two gems



There is just not Mike Conley nor Z Bo nor M. Gasol to keep team afloat.

This is nothing new, RJ was low efficiency, high usage scorer at college, same with K. Knox. Especially RJ, who couldn't even reach college level efficiency while playing on one of most talented college teams. Sometimes ink of player's future already dried, people just want to see more than it's there.
Just track RJ's FTs and 3 point shooting. It's not hard to see he is shooting guard who can't shoot, pretty horrific iso scorer ( like, the
worst iso scorer for 2019-20 season ) and not so great nor gifted passer.

Not to pad myself on the back, but both RJ and Reddish are execlly i thought they will be in nba. Where Morat is even more than i expected.

You think they are depressed? Ask those guys if they would take Vuc or Fournier for Barrett. We are the depressed ones.

[pepe1991]

Knicks got a top 3 pick and took RJ Barrett. Thought he put together a damn good rookie season.

Tanking strategy is still a way to get you talent. Not as easy odds for the very worst team, but better odds for everyone else. Seeing as the Magic never tanked right to begin with, maybe the new system fits us better than before.

RJ Barret put 14 ppg on 13 shots, while shooting 47,9% TS and liability on offense and defense. Where i won't kill him for being Wiggins vol2 (yet), it's no secret Kevin Knox, another poor man Wiggins on same team, also had counting numbers year prior , in rookie year, and just kept being black hole to the point where even Knicks menagment figured he is not worth starting nor investing too much time into.

I don't watch enough Knicks but even reading their forums and just looking at numbers, highlights, it's not hard to see why they are so depressed. Their 2 lottery picks strike as this two gems



There is just not Mike Conley nor Z Bo nor M. Gasol to keep team afloat.

This is nothing new, RJ was low efficiency, high usage scorer at college, same with K. Knox. Especially RJ, who couldn't even reach college level efficiency while playing on one of most talented college teams. Sometimes ink of player's future already dried, people just want to see more than it's there.
Just track RJ's FTs and 3 point shooting. It's not hard to see he is shooting guard who can't shoot, pretty horrific iso scorer ( like, the
worst iso scorer for 2019-20 season ) and not so great nor gifted passer.

Not to pad myself on the back, but both RJ and Reddish are execlly i thought they will be in nba. Where Morat is even more than i expected.

You think they are depressed? Ask those guys if they would take Vuc or Fournier for Barrett. We are the depressed ones.

Vuc would make a list of top 3 Knicks players in last decade ( maybe 2 decades, i'm not willing to put myself through pain of googling Knicks rosters).
Vuc is elite player. Fans here don't respect him because, reasons. Don't even want to go too deep why. I don't care.
But he is only Magic allstar that didn't took first option to run away from a team.

Not his fault team never ever menaged to find anybody good with him, nor better than him.
Not comparing him with KG, but it was same thing, KG lost in first round 7 times in a row, ( swept in 4 i belive) because T wolves simply could never find second solid player to make team anything more than borderline average.

Evan is role player, payed as role player, and much like Gordon, is having big usage as team has no better options. Once again, GM fault, not his.

[Skin]

RJ Barret put 14 ppg on 13 shots, while shooting 47,9% TS and liability on offense and defense. Where i won't kill him for being Wiggins vol2 (yet), it's no secret Kevin Knox, another poor man Wiggins on same team, also had counting numbers year prior , in rookie year, and just kept being black hole to the point where even Knicks menagment figured he is not worth starting nor investing too much time into.

I don't watch enough Knicks but even reading their forums and just looking at numbers, highlights, it's not hard to see why they are so depressed. Their 2 lottery picks strike as this two gems



There is just not Mike Conley nor Z Bo nor M. Gasol to keep team afloat.

This is nothing new, RJ was low efficiency, high usage scorer at college, same with K. Knox. Especially RJ, who couldn't even reach college level efficiency while playing on one of most talented college teams. Sometimes ink of player's future already dried, people just want to see more than it's there.
Just track RJ's FTs and 3 point shooting. It's not hard to see he is shooting guard who can't shoot, pretty horrific iso scorer ( like, the
worst iso scorer for 2019-20 season ) and not so great nor gifted passer.

Not to pad myself on the back, but both RJ and Reddish are execlly i thought they will be in nba. Where Morat is even more than i expected.

You think they are depressed? Ask those guys if they would take Vuc or Fournier for Barrett. We are the depressed ones.

Vuc would make a list of top 3 Knicks players in last decade ( maybe 2 decades, i'm not willing to put myself through pain of googling Knicks rosters).
Vuc is elite player. Fans here don't respect him because, reasons. Don't even want to go too deep why. I don't care.
But he is only Magic allstar that didn't took first option to run away from a team.

Not his fault team never ever menaged to find anybody good with him, nor better than him.
Not comparing him with KG, but it was same thing, KG lost in first round 7 times in a row, ( swept in 4 i belive) because T wolves simply could never find second solid player to make team anything more than borderline average.

Evan is role player, payed as role player, and much like Gordon, is having big usage as team has no better options. Once again, GM fault, not his.

Vuc is elite if he can bring back an elite return. Therefore, not elite.

No team is winning based off a Center based offense. It's prehistoric. We're doing it all wrong.

Vuc signed with the best deal he could take + why would he give up the only gig in the league where the team is centered around him?

GM failures we can agree on. Henny's guys should've been long gone by now.

[MoMM]

You think they are depressed? Ask those guys if they would take Vuc or Fournier for Barrett. We are the depressed ones.

Vuc would make a list of top 3 Knicks players in last decade ( maybe 2 decades, i'm not willing to put myself through pain of googling Knicks rosters).
Vuc is elite player. Fans here don't respect him because, reasons. Don't even want to go too deep why. I don't care.
But he is only Magic allstar that didn't took first option to run away from a team.

Not his fault team never ever menaged to find anybody good with him, nor better than him.
Not comparing him with KG, but it was same thing, KG lost in first round 7 times in a row, ( swept in 4 i belive) because T wolves simply could never find second solid player to make team anything more than borderline average.

Evan is role player, payed as role player, and much like Gordon, is having big usage as team has no better options. Once again, GM fault, not his.

Vuc is elite if he can bring back an elite return. Therefore, not elite.

No team is winning based off a Center based offense. It's prehistoric. We're doing it all wrong.

Vuc signed with the best deal he could take + why would he give up the only gig in the league where the team is centered around him?

GM failures we can agree on. Henny's guys should've been long gone by now.

Jokic?

[drsd]

The goal here, in all reality, is for the team to make enough money to not be sold and leave town.

a) Magic ownership has no intrinsic loyalty to Orlando; they are a Michigan-based family.

b) the "Vegas Magic" might sound nice to the Commissioner's ears.

c) The NBA is looking for "new" and Orlando is no longer that (Howard's years at the Amway are a distant memory now).

d) Owners love personal seating licenses. That is non-distributable money.

e) Seattle will also want the Magic, if available. Jeff Bezos is a real threat here.


..

[pepe1991]

You think they are depressed? Ask those guys if they would take Vuc or Fournier for Barrett. We are the depressed ones.

Vuc would make a list of top 3 Knicks players in last decade ( maybe 2 decades, i'm not willing to put myself through pain of googling Knicks rosters).
Vuc is elite player. Fans here don't respect him because, reasons. Don't even want to go too deep why. I don't care.
But he is only Magic allstar that didn't took first option to run away from a team.

Not his fault team never ever menaged to find anybody good with him, nor better than him.
Not comparing him with KG, but it was same thing, KG lost in first round 7 times in a row, ( swept in 4 i belive) because T wolves simply could never find second solid player to make team anything more than borderline average.

Evan is role player, payed as role player, and much like Gordon, is having big usage as team has no better options. Once again, GM fault, not his.

Vuc is elite if he can bring back an elite return. Therefore, not elite.

No team is winning based off a Center based offense. It's prehistoric. We're doing it all wrong.

Vuc signed with the best deal he could take + why would he give up the only gig in the league where the team is centered around him?

GM failures we can agree on. Henny's guys should've been long gone by now.

Where you in room where Vuc had no other options ? Execlly.
Vuc making $26M next year won't even make him top 40 highest payed players.

some names who will be payed more than him:
Al Horford
Nick Batum
Jrue Holiday
Wiggins
Middleton
Hayward
K Love
CHris Paul (36 y.o.)
John Wall ( didn't play for 2 years)
Griffin ( dead salary , multiple injuries)
Tobias Harris
Drummond

off bet, 35% of players who make more than him, are worst players entering 2020-21 season. And i didn't even try that hard to find all of them. ( Adams, Porter, Derozan ) or ones who make little less, yet are straight trash ( Gary Haris, Barnes, Rozier, Randle, Dieng).

You keep pretenting he is on John Wall / Chris Paul contract. He is not. Entering 2021-22 season, he probably won't be top 50 highest payed player any more.

[MagicStarwipe]

Vuc would make a list of top 3 Knicks players in last decade ( maybe 2 decades, i'm not willing to put myself through pain of googling Knicks rosters).
Vuc is elite player. Fans here don't respect him because, reasons. Don't even want to go too deep why. I don't care.
But he is only Magic allstar that didn't took first option to run away from a team.

Not his fault team never ever menaged to find anybody good with him, nor better than him.
Not comparing him with KG, but it was same thing, KG lost in first round 7 times in a row, ( swept in 4 i belive) because T wolves simply could never find second solid player to make team anything more than borderline average.

Evan is role player, payed as role player, and much like Gordon, is having big usage as team has no better options. Once again, GM fault, not his.

Vuc is elite if he can bring back an elite return. Therefore, not elite.

No team is winning based off a Center based offense. It's prehistoric. We're doing it all wrong.

Vuc signed with the best deal he could take + why would he give up the only gig in the league where the team is centered around him?

GM failures we can agree on. Henny's guys should've been long gone by now.

Jokic?

Jokic has the playmaking ability of a PG.