pepe1991 wrote:What i find confusing is cry for lottery picks , and in same time pretending it won't require complete tanking to get there.
Didn't Magic do execlly that for years? Half a** tanking never going all in for that ? How did that play out.
Magic in last 7 years had FIVE different top 6 pick players on rookie contracts ( not all in same time ).
Why some of you acting like you are not rooting for 76ers process type of rebuild ? Because you know it failed ?
Why be in "closet" about it?
Why, if tanking is such a miracle work, 6th pick from 2018 isn't superstar ? Why 1st overall pick from 2017 isn't averaging 30 ppg against Bucks this year ? Why 2015 first overall pick can't even win 35 games as leader of his team ?
Why rebuild via draft didn't work for literally nobody else but Warriors over last 2 decades?
So now you will pull Doncic and Mavs, when same posters claimed Trae Young was better (or at least, not much worst) and how Hawks won a trade -last year.
Why Kings spent 14 years in lottery for 0 superstars ?
Heat, Bucks , Lakers, Clippers, Celtics. How many years any of them spent in lottery to draft their best player? Execlly zero.
Heat got their best player as free agent, drafted Adebayo with late lotto pick, Bucks have 2 players they drafted as best players, non of them was lottery pick. Lakers literally traded everybody for Davis. 0 starters were drafted there. Clippers, same story, 2 major FA moves, 0 starters drafted by them.
Celtics used worst GM in history to do all the tanking for them, but they never went to lottery to add Brown nor Tatum.
Jokić and Nuggets- their best player wasn't even first round pick.
Jazz - 13# pick and 27th pick
Rockets- whole team build via trades and FA
OKC- 11th pick (SGA)
Raptors- 27th pick (Siakam) rest via trades or non lottery picks..
That's pretty much reality of landscape of nba. Nobody tanked for best player.
II already replyed to Magic Matic and flawed logic of " not needing to blow it up" .
You actually have to blow whole thing up to put yourself in position to not win games. It absolutely requires adding negative assets and players without any basketball impact, to keep chances of winning games minimal. ( if you don't, you have Orlando Magic, team that drafed 3 players in 4 years - 5,6,6 , and missed on all impacful players) .
But in process of gutting roster for picks, you get rid of all talent and now you have lottery pick and bunch of crap with probably bloated contracts , added through trades for more picks and trading away your positive assets.
And this is execlly where 76ers plan went to s***. They had bunch of picks, bunch of lottery picks and lot of average, yet overpayed players. In 2017-18 they payed for Covington, JJ Redick, Amir Johnson and Trevor Booker- $60 M.
Next year Embiid was no longer rookie scale contract player and his salary become bloated as well. So in order to stop paying bunch of Amir Johnson's $11M a year they had to cash in, made a trade for established star Butler and solid offensive option Harris. However, in moment Butler decided to walk, whole process was dead at sight.
Drafting star is amazing. But you only have window of 3 years to actually pay him as rookie. After that he is just another cap eating monster that makes it that much harder to put respecful team around.
There are 14 lottery picks. We are picking 15th. There is a really good chance that we will be picking in the lottery next year regardless of this front office's wants. We aren't talking about breaking up the 98 Bulls. This team is not good. It really wouldn't take much to significantly improve the EV of our draft picks.
The Process ended the day that Hinkie stepped down. Colangelo took over and immediately started trading in the assets that Hinkie accumulated. It's just weird to me that you characterize it as a failure. If that's a failure... then how in the **** would you characterize the Orlando Magic right now? Philly won 50+ games the past couple years and reached the second round of the playoffs. We have 7 50+ win seasons in our franchise's history and we have reached the second round of the playoffs only 5 times. Oh... and the process began a year after our rebuild started. If Philadelphia decides to go in a different direction, at least they have the assets to get something of value in return.
Speaking of assets... that's basically what this is all about. Anthony Davis was picked first. That didn't lead to a great deal of success in New Orleans, but where would they be without all of the assets they got in return for Davis? How would the Lakers have acquired Davis without the lottery assets they acquired? If you don't have assets, then you need to acquire them. You aren't guaranteed to get something of value out of your draft picks, but it's still the best place to go if you want to stockpile talent. There is some uncertainty involved, but to argue against the value of high draft picks is asinine. And if your front office can't figure out how to get some value out of lottery picks, why would you think non-lottery or second-round success stories would serve as proper examples of how to build a roster?
If you aren't where you want to be, then where you are isn't what matters. Where you are going is what matters. We are perfecting the art of sabotaging the value of our own prospects while filling out the rotation with non-assets in an attempt to polish the same turds year after year. We are not in a good place and we are going nowhere. Unfortunately, this seems to be where our ownership and front office wants to be. I just don't know how anyone can advocate against trying anything other than what we are doing now. I don't know precisely what the best course of action is, but I know that sitting around with your thumb up your ass isn't going to fix anything.
This is still complete cherrypicking.
What happend to a team that lost most games for Anthony Davis same year ? Charlotte Bobcats and their worst win percentage in history? 7-59 record that year led them to... Michael Kid Gilchrist.
Where you are going is what matters. We are perfecting the art of sabotaging the value of our own prospects while filling out the rotation with non-assets in an attempt to polish the same turds year after year.
Every year you use same phrase. Who are turds you are always mentioning? Nikola Vučević? Can we have more of this 30 points a game in playoff series against best defense in nba turds?
Who are allegedly sabotaged prospects ? MO Bamba who can't get off bench for more than 15 min because he is too lazy to put body in playing shape?
Fultz ? NBA guard without jumpshot? Inserted in starting role after 20 games for no good reason.
Isaac who was inserted as starter basically from day one?
Okeke ? 0 nba games played.
Or you are refering to past, where Payton was starter from day one, Oladipo - starter from day one, Harris- starter from day one. OR Hezonja and how much he developed after Magic?
Maybe just maybe it's obvious from start that some players don't have high potential, so sabotaging team to "develop" them is complete waste of time. Hence, we already tried that, when we gutted roster to "develop" Oladipo, Payton and Gordon. That turned great
I just don't know how anyone can advocate against trying anything other than what we are doing now.
Because we tried tanking road from 2012 to 2018. That's why we drafted 2,4,5,6,6 in six years. Non of them turned into anything.
If tanking and collecting assets is best path, by now Kings would be king of nba. They just missed playoffs for 14th time in a row. 14 lottery picks. Cousins was last respecful allstar theey had.
Not only them ,Suns ( 10) and Knicks (7) are still ongoing playoff droughts. Suns have bunch of guys and Booker, Knicks don't even have that.
My main issue with this FO is complete lack of desire to take chances in trades and having zero desire to adjust team to modern requirements. Where everybody goes for spacing, ballhandling and shooting ,they draft bigs who can't handle nor shoot.