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Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($)

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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#141 » by j-ragg » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:13 pm

Xatticus wrote:There are any number of paths one could pursue. We simply choose to pursue none of them. We re-sign anyone up for free agency, draft in slot, and scour the waiver wire.

Truth.
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#142 » by Just Plain Mark » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:27 pm

j-ragg wrote:It comes down to believing your front office will nail the pick every year no matter where you’re at. I don’t believe ours will. So while I think the treadmill is the worst place to be, I don’t know we should put all of our apples into the draft necessarily unless it’s for future assets years away.


I get that skepticism about the Magic's front office nailing draft picks, but if you feel that way about their drafting ability, what evidence do you have that the front office will nail FA signings or trades?

To me, the arguments against tanking are that the draft is a crap shoot, while somehow thinking that FA and trades are much more likely to yield success even though the same people are making decisions in all three situations.

If a front office can't be trusted to successfully use the guaranteed asset source (draft picks), they are: 1) unlikely to be magically competent in other areas of talent acquisition; and 2) making FA and trades much more difficult to pull off because they are hampered by poor drafting.
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#143 » by Def Swami » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:50 pm

Just Plain Mark wrote:
j-ragg wrote:It comes down to believing your front office will nail the pick every year no matter where you’re at. I don’t believe ours will. So while I think the treadmill is the worst place to be, I don’t know we should put all of our apples into the draft necessarily unless it’s for future assets years away.


I get that skepticism about the Magic's front office nailing draft picks, but if you feel that way about their drafting ability, what evidence do you have that the front office will nail FA signings or trades?

To me, the arguments against tanking are that the draft is a crap shoot, while somehow thinking that FA and trades are much more likely to yield success even though the same people are making decisions in all three situations.

If a front office can't be trusted to successfully use the guaranteed asset source (draft picks), they are: 1) unlikely to be magically competent in other areas of talent acquisition; and 2) making FA and trades much more difficult to pull off because they are hampered by poor drafting.

After 3 years, I think the data is accumulating that our front office is wildly mediocre. I'm an off-season away from looking for a new GM and POBO.
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#144 » by MagicFan101 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:24 pm

Honestly, I can forgive them if they make a bold move to accumulate assets to go after a rising young player or a high draft pick for a targeted player and it ends up not working.

At least they took a made move and took a chance.

Fultz was a very low risk strategic move. I love the move but that doesn’t cut it.
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#145 » by OrlChamps2030 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:33 pm

j-ragg wrote:
Xatticus wrote:There are any number of paths one could pursue. We simply choose to pursue none of them. We re-sign anyone up for free agency, draft in slot, and scour the waiver wire.

Truth.

He’s right ya know

This front office seems to be seriously lacking in innovation and aggression. Complacency is what comes to my mind when I think of this front office.
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#146 » by KillMonger » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:36 pm

think we're keeping this years second rounder? or are we selling it for cash again, even though we need talent?
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#147 » by zaymon » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:10 pm

KillMonger wrote:think we're keeping this years second rounder? or are we selling it for cash again, even though we need talent?

I think we will try to pick and send to gleague on a 2way. Much depends on Ennis player option, Dj and Mcw negotiations. I like the depth around 45. Mostly guards.
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#148 » by Ducklett » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:45 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
Skin wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
#1: No team is trading a top 5 pick for anybody on this team.
#2: It would take probably 3-4 seasons of being the worst team in the entire NBA to maybe get lucky and win a superstar in the draft. Then, it would still take years to develop a winning team.
#3: The vast majority of the top teams in the NBA did not get there through the draft but by GM's making risky moves.
#4: Our GM's don't make risky moves. Need new GM.

#1: Agreed
#2: Even if we got rid of all of Henny's guys, we wouldn't be the worst team in the league. We'd get true development and evaluation though.
#3: All lies. GS, DEN, TOR, BOS, MIL all heavily reliant on players they drafted.
#4: True, but you are the very one that hates any talk of us making risky moves. Should we fire your thoughts? lol :lol:



3 isn't lie.

Most of this teams you mentioned never really tanked.

Raptors
For 7 years straight in playoffs. Siakam was 27th pick. Lowry wasn't even drafted by them, Terrence Ross is their last high draft pick.

Boston
Tatum and Brown are NOT THEIR PICKS, they are NETS picks that they wasted on KG and Paul Pierce trade disaster.

Bucks
Bucks did tank, however, not a single player from tanking era plays for them now. Middleton and Giannis are NOT lottery picks.

Nuggets Murray IS lottery pick BUT IT WASN'T THEIR PICK. Nuggets had right to swap picks with Knicks because of Carmelo Anthony trade that happend 5 years prior to 2016 draft. ALSO Jokić ISN'T LOTTERY PICK. Not even first round pick.

Warriors Another team that never actively tanked. They drafted Curry after bad year, but their added Klay after 36-46 season, that would make them 9th team on East. Given schedule difference, if they were on East, they would probably make playoffs. Not to mention they botched their 4th pick so badly in between Steph and Klay.

So now we know nobody tanked. And people should finally understand one thing:
between 40 to 60 new players every year enter NBA. Vast majority of them are drafted. So you can't just say for every player and every team that they are built through draft just because somebody drafted them. Because that's literally only way into NBA. ( there are like 2-5 undrafted ,yet signed new players every year, it's irrelevant number to even discuss ).


Drafting doesn't mean tanking. Magic, much like any other team, draft players, some teams find Gobert and Jokić, other teams find Iwundu and Frazier.

For God's sake i just can't understand why some people can't understand difference between drafting player and tanking for player. Tanking is openly sucking to get high draft pick and maximise odds of securing projected high upside talent that should be franchise altering guy.

Difference between great and average teams is asset menagment. Nobody had more lottery draft picks than Suns, T wovles and Kings last 10 years.


I would trade this roster and future picks for the TWolves or the Suns current roster and future picks. Not a second thought and it isn't close.
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#149 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:45 pm

KillMonger wrote:think we're keeping this years second rounder? or are we selling it for cash again, even though we need talent?


Betting favorites would have to say they sell it but there are some interesting picks who could immediately replace a MCW/Iwundu/Frazier type player.
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#150 » by Skin » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:03 pm

MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
KillMonger wrote:think we're keeping this years second rounder? or are we selling it for cash again, even though we need talent?


Betting favorites would have to say they sell it but there are some interesting picks who could immediately replace a MCW/Iwundu/Frazier type player.

It's really sickening when they sell it for cash. There are some guys I really like in round 2 so I hope they buy an extra pick instead.
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#151 » by zaymon » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:08 pm

Skin wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
KillMonger wrote:think we're keeping this years second rounder? or are we selling it for cash again, even though we need talent?


Betting favorites would have to say they sell it but there are some interesting picks who could immediately replace a MCW/Iwundu/Frazier type player.

It's really sickening when they sell it for cash. There are some guys I really like in round 2 so I hope they buy an extra pick instead.

I dont think we have the roster space. It will be hard to fit even one second rounder. Problem is most of the projected players at 45 our guards, and we really like Dj and MCW. I dont think there are any major difference makers unless Riller or Dotson fall. I would be all in on Reed, Tillie and Highes if they are available. Cut Frazier or something.
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#152 » by pepe1991 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:20 pm

Ducklett wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Skin wrote:#1: Agreed
#2: Even if we got rid of all of Henny's guys, we wouldn't be the worst team in the league. We'd get true development and evaluation though.
#3: All lies. GS, DEN, TOR, BOS, MIL all heavily reliant on players they drafted.
#4: True, but you are the very one that hates any talk of us making risky moves. Should we fire your thoughts? lol :lol:



3 isn't lie.

Most of this teams you mentioned never really tanked.

Raptors
For 7 years straight in playoffs. Siakam was 27th pick. Lowry wasn't even drafted by them, Terrence Ross is their last high draft pick.

Boston
Tatum and Brown are NOT THEIR PICKS, they are NETS picks that they wasted on KG and Paul Pierce trade disaster.

Bucks
Bucks did tank, however, not a single player from tanking era plays for them now. Middleton and Giannis are NOT lottery picks.

Nuggets Murray IS lottery pick BUT IT WASN'T THEIR PICK. Nuggets had right to swap picks with Knicks because of Carmelo Anthony trade that happend 5 years prior to 2016 draft. ALSO Jokić ISN'T LOTTERY PICK. Not even first round pick.

Warriors Another team that never actively tanked. They drafted Curry after bad year, but their added Klay after 36-46 season, that would make them 9th team on East. Given schedule difference, if they were on East, they would probably make playoffs. Not to mention they botched their 4th pick so badly in between Steph and Klay.

So now we know nobody tanked. And people should finally understand one thing:
between 40 to 60 new players every year enter NBA. Vast majority of them are drafted. So you can't just say for every player and every team that they are built through draft just because somebody drafted them. Because that's literally only way into NBA. ( there are like 2-5 undrafted ,yet signed new players every year, it's irrelevant number to even discuss ).


Drafting doesn't mean tanking. Magic, much like any other team, draft players, some teams find Gobert and Jokić, other teams find Iwundu and Frazier.

For God's sake i just can't understand why some people can't understand difference between drafting player and tanking for player. Tanking is openly sucking to get high draft pick and maximise odds of securing projected high upside talent that should be franchise altering guy.

Difference between great and average teams is asset menagment. Nobody had more lottery draft picks than Suns, T wovles and Kings last 10 years.


I would trade this roster and future picks for the TWolves or the Suns current roster and future picks. Not a second thought and it isn't close.


Huh, you do know those teams have no sucess whatsoever, right ? Where Suns might turn the corner for first time in last 10 years ( by turning corner i mean making playoffs and losing to some healthy Warriors team in sweep ) , T wolves are beyond hopless.
Both teams have "star" that puts up incredible numbers yet never achives anything close to playing winning basketball.
Both teams are knees deep into salary hell without any hope to be FA player for next 2 years at least.

Chances are, both stars will ask for trade within next 2 years and never-ending cycle of sucking on West for both teams will turn into another decade long pain. I mean that's pretty much T wolves in nutshell, they have history of having 1 elite player and having no clue what to do with him. KG, Kevin Love and now Towns. Wasteland of talents.
Suns,from Barkley to Nash, had 2 serious NBA rosters, and nothing serious since Amare left. Another- decade long , never ending rebuild.
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#153 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:22 pm

zaymon wrote:
Skin wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
Betting favorites would have to say they sell it but there are some interesting picks who could immediately replace a MCW/Iwundu/Frazier type player.

It's really sickening when they sell it for cash. There are some guys I really like in round 2 so I hope they buy an extra pick instead.

I dont think we have the roster space. It will be hard to fit even one second rounder. Problem is most of the projected players at 45 our guards, and we really like Dj and MCW. I dont think there are any major difference makers unless Riller or Dotson fall. I would be all in on Reed, Tillie and Highes if they are available. Cut Frazier or something.


There absolutely is room and it's as easy as waiving Frazier's useless contract of 1.6M like you said. Pointless for Orlando to re sign both DJ and MCW IMO with the poor wing depth we have currently. I also don't see a need for 3 PG's on a roster especially when 2 of them are poor shooters, if that 3rd guard could shoot then yeah. Between Dotson, Nwora, Flynn, Riller, Howard, Scrubb, Mane one of them hopefully is on the board at 45.
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#154 » by zaymon » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:05 pm

MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
zaymon wrote:
Skin wrote:It's really sickening when they sell it for cash. There are some guys I really like in round 2 so I hope they buy an extra pick instead.

I dont think we have the roster space. It will be hard to fit even one second rounder. Problem is most of the projected players at 45 our guards, and we really like Dj and MCW. I dont think there are any major difference makers unless Riller or Dotson fall. I would be all in on Reed, Tillie and Highes if they are available. Cut Frazier or something.


There absolutely is room and it's as easy as waiving Frazier's useless contract of 1.6M like you said. Pointless for Orlando to re sign both DJ and MCW IMO with the poor wing depth we have currently. I also don't see a need for 3 PG's on a roster especially when 2 of them are poor shooters, if that 3rd guard could shoot then yeah. Between Dotson, Nwora, Flynn, Riller, Howard, Scrubb, Mane one of them hopefully is on the board at 45.

Clifford turned MCW into a wing. He got more bulky and his lack of 3 pointer became less of a problem becouse he could play with dj. Dj + MCW was one of our absolute best pairings. Dj is also a vocal leader of this team i wouldnt flip him for some minor talent.
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#155 » by Ducklett » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:42 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
Ducklett wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:

3 isn't lie.

Most of this teams you mentioned never really tanked.

Raptors
For 7 years straight in playoffs. Siakam was 27th pick. Lowry wasn't even drafted by them, Terrence Ross is their last high draft pick.

Boston
Tatum and Brown are NOT THEIR PICKS, they are NETS picks that they wasted on KG and Paul Pierce trade disaster.

Bucks
Bucks did tank, however, not a single player from tanking era plays for them now. Middleton and Giannis are NOT lottery picks.

Nuggets Murray IS lottery pick BUT IT WASN'T THEIR PICK. Nuggets had right to swap picks with Knicks because of Carmelo Anthony trade that happend 5 years prior to 2016 draft. ALSO Jokić ISN'T LOTTERY PICK. Not even first round pick.

Warriors Another team that never actively tanked. They drafted Curry after bad year, but their added Klay after 36-46 season, that would make them 9th team on East. Given schedule difference, if they were on East, they would probably make playoffs. Not to mention they botched their 4th pick so badly in between Steph and Klay.

So now we know nobody tanked. And people should finally understand one thing:
between 40 to 60 new players every year enter NBA. Vast majority of them are drafted. So you can't just say for every player and every team that they are built through draft just because somebody drafted them. Because that's literally only way into NBA. ( there are like 2-5 undrafted ,yet signed new players every year, it's irrelevant number to even discuss ).


Drafting doesn't mean tanking. Magic, much like any other team, draft players, some teams find Gobert and Jokić, other teams find Iwundu and Frazier.

For God's sake i just can't understand why some people can't understand difference between drafting player and tanking for player. Tanking is openly sucking to get high draft pick and maximise odds of securing projected high upside talent that should be franchise altering guy.

Difference between great and average teams is asset menagment. Nobody had more lottery draft picks than Suns, T wovles and Kings last 10 years.


I would trade this roster and future picks for the TWolves or the Suns current roster and future picks. Not a second thought and it isn't close.


Huh, you do know those teams have no sucess whatsoever, right ? Where Suns might turn the corner for first time in last 10 years ( by turning corner i mean making playoffs and losing to some healthy Warriors team in sweep ) , T wolves are beyond hopless.
Both teams have "star" that puts up incredible numbers yet never achives anything close to playing winning basketball.
Both teams are knees deep into salary hell without any hope to be FA player for next 2 years at least.

Chances are, both stars will ask for trade within next 2 years and never-ending cycle of sucking on West for both teams will turn into another decade long pain. I mean that's pretty much T wolves in nutshell, they have history of having 1 elite player and having no clue what to do with him. KG, Kevin Love and now Towns. Wasteland of talents.
Suns,from Barkley to Nash, had 2 serious NBA rosters, and nothing serious since Amare left. Another- decade long , never ending rebuild.


You realize we haven't had any success either over this last 7 years either. 1 playoff win is the difference between us and the Timberwolves. The Suns and the Timberwolves at this moment in time have much brighter futures with their stars, rosters, and assets than we do and it isn't close. If they were in the East and we were in the West, this wouldn't even be a discussion.
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#156 » by MagicMatic » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:54 pm

You don’t need to tank to get a top 10 pick.

Cool. Now that that’s out of the way....

Let’s build through utilizing draft assets like every other team. :lol:
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#157 » by SOUL » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:05 pm

zaymon wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
zaymon wrote:I dont think we have the roster space. It will be hard to fit even one second rounder. Problem is most of the projected players at 45 our guards, and we really like Dj and MCW. I dont think there are any major difference makers unless Riller or Dotson fall. I would be all in on Reed, Tillie and Highes if they are available. Cut Frazier or something.


There absolutely is room and it's as easy as waiving Frazier's useless contract of 1.6M like you said. Pointless for Orlando to re sign both DJ and MCW IMO with the poor wing depth we have currently. I also don't see a need for 3 PG's on a roster especially when 2 of them are poor shooters, if that 3rd guard could shoot then yeah. Between Dotson, Nwora, Flynn, Riller, Howard, Scrubb, Mane one of them hopefully is on the board at 45.

Clifford turned MCW into a wing. He got more bulky and his lack of 3 pointer became less of a problem becouse he could play with dj. Dj + MCW was one of our absolute best pairings. Dj is also a vocal leader of this team i wouldnt flip him for some minor talent.


While all those things can be true, DJ:

1. Still shot 39/34 for the season
2. Is too short to guard anybody and creates bad defensive mismatches
3. Wastes possessions at times with his dribbling (IIRC, he had highest amount of ball holding in the league/or dribbling metrics)
4. Takes too long to get his own shot off

He does have his pluses. Is a 3 point threat regardless so he stretches the floor, gets hot at times, can draw contact really well.. I just think there's really obvious flaws with him that are always going to be there and he's going to be 33 soon. I think there's a lot of solid backup PG talent out there that can shoot better or just as good, has size, and moves the ball better.
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#158 » by cedric76 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:21 pm

SOUL wrote:
zaymon wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
There absolutely is room and it's as easy as waiving Frazier's useless contract of 1.6M like you said. Pointless for Orlando to re sign both DJ and MCW IMO with the poor wing depth we have currently. I also don't see a need for 3 PG's on a roster especially when 2 of them are poor shooters, if that 3rd guard could shoot then yeah. Between Dotson, Nwora, Flynn, Riller, Howard, Scrubb, Mane one of them hopefully is on the board at 45.

Clifford turned MCW into a wing. He got more bulky and his lack of 3 pointer became less of a problem becouse he could play with dj. Dj + MCW was one of our absolute best pairings. Dj is also a vocal leader of this team i wouldnt flip him for some minor talent.


While all those things can be true, DJ:

1. Still shot 39/34 for the season
2. Is too short to guard anybody and creates bad defensive mismatches
3. Wastes possessions at times with his dribbling (IIRC, he had highest amount of ball holding in the league/or dribbling metrics)
4. Takes too long to get his own shot off

He does have his pluses. Is a 3 point threat regardless so he stretches the floor, gets hot at times, can draw contact really well.. I just think there's really obvious flaws with him that are always going to be there and he's going to be 33 soon. I think there's a lot of solid backup PG talent out there that can shoot better or just as good, has size, and moves the ball better.



Please please please do not resign DJ
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AG for Johnson+culver+#17
use #17 to gamble on kopusevski (keep him oversee)


**** load of money under the cap for summer 2021

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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#159 » by cedric76 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:21 pm

SOUL wrote:
zaymon wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
There absolutely is room and it's as easy as waiving Frazier's useless contract of 1.6M like you said. Pointless for Orlando to re sign both DJ and MCW IMO with the poor wing depth we have currently. I also don't see a need for 3 PG's on a roster especially when 2 of them are poor shooters, if that 3rd guard could shoot then yeah. Between Dotson, Nwora, Flynn, Riller, Howard, Scrubb, Mane one of them hopefully is on the board at 45.

Clifford turned MCW into a wing. He got more bulky and his lack of 3 pointer became less of a problem becouse he could play with dj. Dj + MCW was one of our absolute best pairings. Dj is also a vocal leader of this team i wouldnt flip him for some minor talent.


While all those things can be true, DJ:

1. Still shot 39/34 for the season
2. Is too short to guard anybody and creates bad defensive mismatches
3. Wastes possessions at times with his dribbling (IIRC, he had highest amount of ball holding in the league/or dribbling metrics)
4. Takes too long to get his own shot off

He does have his pluses. Is a 3 point threat regardless so he stretches the floor, gets hot at times, can draw contact really well.. I just think there's really obvious flaws with him that are always going to be there and he's going to be 33 soon. I think there's a lot of solid backup PG talent out there that can shoot better or just as good, has size, and moves the ball better.



Please please please do not resign DJ
Prediction : weham will draft AARON NESMITH

AG for Johnson+culver+#17
use #17 to gamble on kopusevski (keep him oversee)


**** load of money under the cap for summer 2021

Core of the Future: Fultz, culver, chuma, JI, Mo, Kopusevski and AARON NESMITH
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#160 » by KillMonger » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:27 pm

Skin wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
KillMonger wrote:think we're keeping this years second rounder? or are we selling it for cash again, even though we need talent?


Betting favorites would have to say they sell it but there are some interesting picks who could immediately replace a MCW/Iwundu/Frazier type player.

It's really sickening when they sell it for cash. There are some guys I really like in round 2 so I hope they buy an extra pick instead.

Orlando isn't really a top tier free agent destination so one of the reliable ways to add talent is through the draft....so selling secound rounders does make me cringe a bit where you can find productive players in the second round....just going off recent memory....

Brogdon(2nd rounder)
Dinwiddie(2nd rounder)
Kendrick Nunn(undrafted)
Pashcall(2nd rounder)
Devonte Graham(2nd rounder)
jalen brunson(2nd rounder)
Gary Trent Jr. (2nd rounder)
Hamidou Diallo(2nd rounder)

All productive players, we can surely find somebody that can contribute in the second round....however this front office gives me pause though
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FREE AG...... FREE HEZONJA....... FREE AG...... FREE HEZONJA

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