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Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($)

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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#181 » by MagicMatic » Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:43 am

KillMonger wrote:It's tough man, changes need to be made but we have no flexibility the only way to really make a splash this offseason is through trades.....If we're going to trade Vuc this is the year.....if we're going to trade AG this is the year......both of those guys might be that piece another team might need to put them over....i'm just afraid it's going to be another run it back season especially if you go by the bile weltman was spewing in this interview......i mean does he think he has an unlimited contract? He inherited the main cogs of this team, he has to start laying some ground work at some point right?


It’s funny because he’s taken SO much time that he’s eventually going to be on the hot seat, which will lead him to be taken advantage of by other GMs. When in reality he should have been making moves the entire time to avoid what happened to Hennigan. How many seasons does he have left before fans start turning on him? Most of the hardcore fans that understand the league already have.
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#182 » by KillMonger » Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:01 am

MagicMatic wrote:
KillMonger wrote:It's tough man, changes need to be made but we have no flexibility the only way to really make a splash this offseason is through trades.....If we're going to trade Vuc this is the year.....if we're going to trade AG this is the year......both of those guys might be that piece another team might need to put them over....i'm just afraid it's going to be another run it back season especially if you go by the bile weltman was spewing in this interview......i mean does he think he has an unlimited contract? He inherited the main cogs of this team, he has to start laying some ground work at some point right?


It’s funny because he’s taken SO much time that he’s eventually going to be on the hot seat, which will lead him to be taken advantage of by other GMs. When in reality he should have been making moves the entire time to avoid what happened to Hennigan. How many seasons does he have left before fans start turning on him? Most of the hardcore fans that understand the league already have.

i agree, there is only so many times you can "run it back" with more or less the same roster....that being said though it isn't impossible to shake up this current roster so we'll see what happens....however i believe as far as fans is concerned? that seat is starting to get warm
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#183 » by pepe1991 » Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:40 am

At the end of a day, this is make it or break it year for Weltman and Hammond. Without any cap flexibility, with Isaac out and being forced into blind -resign, only way to improve this team is via trades.
If they do nothing for whole year, and Magic are ( as expected ) 7-9th seed, or lower, they should be on hot seats.
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#184 » by zaymon » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:08 am

pepe1991 wrote:At the end of a day, this is make it or break it year for Weltman and Hammond. Without any cap flexibility, with Isaac out and being forced into blind -resign, only way to improve this team is via trades.
If they do nothing for whole year, and Magic are ( as expected ) 7-9th seed, or lower, they should be on hot seats.

If Fultz, Okeke and Bamba take another step i have nothing against finishing 7-9. If Fultz shoots from 3, Okeke starts and Bamba becomes best reserve center in the nba it could still be not enough to finish above 7, especially with injuries. Pacers could be worse, 76ers could implode, maybe Toronto will lose some veterans, but Nets will be better and Wizards could be good ( i dont think so unless they get some better veterans).
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#185 » by MagicMatic » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:55 am

zaymon wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:At the end of a day, this is make it or break it year for Weltman and Hammond. Without any cap flexibility, with Isaac out and being forced into blind -resign, only way to improve this team is via trades.
If they do nothing for whole year, and Magic are ( as expected ) 7-9th seed, or lower, they should be on hot seats.

If Fultz, Okeke and Bamba take another step i have nothing against finishing 7-9. If Fultz shoots from 3, Okeke starts and Bamba becomes best reserve center in the nba it could still be not enough to finish above 7, especially with injuries. Pacers could be worse, 76ers could implode, maybe Toronto will lose some veterans, but Nets will be better and Wizards could be good ( i dont think so unless they get some better veterans).


So you are banking their success on the failings of other franchises. What a high bar you have for them.

Finishing 7-9 isn’t good enough when you have no ceiling and continue to pick 15-18.
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#186 » by pepe1991 » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:11 am

zaymon wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:At the end of a day, this is make it or break it year for Weltman and Hammond. Without any cap flexibility, with Isaac out and being forced into blind -resign, only way to improve this team is via trades.
If they do nothing for whole year, and Magic are ( as expected ) 7-9th seed, or lower, they should be on hot seats.

If Fultz, Okeke and Bamba take another step i have nothing against finishing 7-9. If Fultz shoots from 3, Okeke starts and Bamba becomes best reserve center in the nba it could still be not enough to finish above 7, especially with injuries. Pacers could be worse, 76ers could implode, maybe Toronto will lose some veterans, but Nets will be better and Wizards could be good ( i dont think so unless they get some better veterans).


IF Fultz can't be treat and demands no attention pass 15 feet, he is no go for long term starter. And there is no objective reason to belive he can do that.
Bamba most of the nights isn't best backup C on the floor, while being only backup C on the floor, as half of the teams don't even use backup Cs any more ( Celtics, Heat for example ).

Raptors are keeping Lowry, Siakam, OG and Powell, they can now use rest of the cap to sign somebody like Derick Favors ( to replace Gasol) and go over cap to keep Vleet and Ibaka (Ibaka shorter contract , Vleet longer, obviouslly ).

We will see how much Wall declined.
Bulls with actual coach and 4th pick could be suprising team, they will have finally have healthy Porter.
Hawks now actually have nba level backup PG and actual center for once ( and backup C ).
If Pacers lose Oladipo is that really big deal? Brogdon, TJ Warren, Sabonis,Turner... more than enough to still win 45-48 games.

It's not set in stones this team is making playoffs next year.
"A straight path never leads anywhere except to the objective."
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#187 » by zaymon » Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:49 am

pepe1991 wrote:
zaymon wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:At the end of a day, this is make it or break it year for Weltman and Hammond. Without any cap flexibility, with Isaac out and being forced into blind -resign, only way to improve this team is via trades.
If they do nothing for whole year, and Magic are ( as expected ) 7-9th seed, or lower, they should be on hot seats.

If Fultz, Okeke and Bamba take another step i have nothing against finishing 7-9. If Fultz shoots from 3, Okeke starts and Bamba becomes best reserve center in the nba it could still be not enough to finish above 7, especially with injuries. Pacers could be worse, 76ers could implode, maybe Toronto will lose some veterans, but Nets will be better and Wizards could be good ( i dont think so unless they get some better veterans).


IF Fultz can't be treat and demands no attention pass 15 feet, he is no go for long term starter. And there is no objective reason to belive he can do that.
Bamba most of the nights isn't best backup C on the floor, while being only backup C on the floor, as half of the teams don't even use backup Cs any more ( Celtics, Heat for example ).

Raptors are keeping Lowry, Siakam, OG and Powell, they can now use rest of the cap to sign somebody like Derick Favors ( to replace Gasol) and go over cap to keep Vleet and Ibaka (Ibaka shorter contract , Vleet longer, obviouslly ).

We will see how much Wall declined.
Bulls with actual coach and 4th pick could be suprising team, they will have finally have healthy Porter.
Hawks now actually have nba level backup PG and actual center for once ( and backup C ).
If Pacers lose Oladipo is that really big deal? Brogdon, TJ Warren, Sabonis,Turner... more than enough to still win 45-48 games.

It's not set in stones this team is making playoffs next year.


Young teams rarely make playoffs. If we can make it in stronger east next year while having Fultz, Okeke, Bamba and our 2020 frp in rotation I call it a good season. Look at successful "young" teams. Max 2 young players < 24.

Boston: Walker 30, Hayward 30, Wanamaker 30, Theis 28, Kanter 27, Smart 26, Brown 24, Tatum 22
Heat: Dragic 34, Butler 31, Crowder 30, Olynyk 29, Robinson 26, Nunn 24, Adebayo 23, Herro 20
Denver: Millsap 35, Barton 29, Craig 29, Harris 26, Grant 26, Jokic 25, Morris 25, Murray 23, Porter 22

While we this year:

Augustin 32, Ennis 30, Vucevic 29, Ross 29, MCW 28, Fournier 27, Aaron Gordon 25, Fultz 22, Isaac 22, Bamba 22.

If we can add Okeke 22, and another 20 y.o rookie and make playoffs it will be outlier. Such young teams very rarely succed. Especially with such raw or flawed prospects as Fultz and Bamba. How could anybody expect we will be top 4 team this year with that many injuries ? Madness. If we cant make it to the post season we will be in the lottery in propably very strong draft. Its basically win- win with such a young rotation.
Bold Predictions:
1. Deandre Ayton biggest disappointment of 2018 draft.
2. Nick Nurse becomes Orlando Magic Head Coach. (15.04.2018)
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#188 » by pepe1991 » Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:43 pm

zaymon wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
zaymon wrote:If Fultz, Okeke and Bamba take another step i have nothing against finishing 7-9. If Fultz shoots from 3, Okeke starts and Bamba becomes best reserve center in the nba it could still be not enough to finish above 7, especially with injuries. Pacers could be worse, 76ers could implode, maybe Toronto will lose some veterans, but Nets will be better and Wizards could be good ( i dont think so unless they get some better veterans).


IF Fultz can't be treat and demands no attention pass 15 feet, he is no go for long term starter. And there is no objective reason to belive he can do that.
Bamba most of the nights isn't best backup C on the floor, while being only backup C on the floor, as half of the teams don't even use backup Cs any more ( Celtics, Heat for example ).

Raptors are keeping Lowry, Siakam, OG and Powell, they can now use rest of the cap to sign somebody like Derick Favors ( to replace Gasol) and go over cap to keep Vleet and Ibaka (Ibaka shorter contract , Vleet longer, obviouslly ).

We will see how much Wall declined.
Bulls with actual coach and 4th pick could be suprising team, they will have finally have healthy Porter.
Hawks now actually have nba level backup PG and actual center for once ( and backup C ).
If Pacers lose Oladipo is that really big deal? Brogdon, TJ Warren, Sabonis,Turner... more than enough to still win 45-48 games.

It's not set in stones this team is making playoffs next year.


Young teams rarely make playoffs. If we can make it in stronger east next year while having Fultz, Okeke, Bamba and our 2020 frp in rotation I call it a good season. Look at successful "young" teams. Max 2 young players < 24.

Boston: Walker 30, Hayward 30, Wanamaker 30, Theis 28, Kanter 27, Smart 26, Brown 24, Tatum 22
Heat: Dragic 34, Butler 31, Crowder 30, Olynyk 29, Robinson 26, Nunn 24, Adebayo 23, Herro 20
Denver: Millsap 35, Barton 29, Craig 29, Harris 26, Grant 26, Jokic 25, Morris 25, Murray 23, Porter 22


While we this year:

Augustin 32, Ennis 30, Vucevic 29, Ross 29, MCW 28, Fournier 27, Aaron Gordon 25, Fultz 22, Isaac 22, Bamba 22.

If we can add Okeke 22, and another 20 y.o rookie and make playoffs it will be outlier. Such young teams very rarely succed. Especially with such raw or flawed prospects as Fultz and Bamba. How could anybody expect we will be top 4 team this year with that many injuries ? Madness. If we cant make it to the post season we will be in the lottery in propably very strong draft. Its basically win- win with such a young rotation.



So good season is sucking with young guys now? I guess Suns and Kings are kings (pun intended ) of sucess :lol:

If Magic make playoffs, once again, it will be despite young players, not because of them. Where Celtics and Nuggets make playoffs because of their young players. Because their young players are actually talented and productive.
Injuries happen, it's not excuse and never will be.

Difference between planning to be bad for year or two and ending up being bad as result of poor asset menagment, salary stuffing and having no clue how to build proper team are two separate things. Magic fron office is looking like later thing.
Magic simply have no cap space. Period. Magic aslo having " young core" without any "special" talent. So it's not really young core but bunch of unpolished players that belong in " young" category by default. Young does not mean good or super talented. (easly biggest misconception among sport fans alltogether ).
Magic don't even have strong "experienced" core. It's just Vučević who is above average player on whole roster and couple of solid rotation players like Gordon, Evan, Isaac and DJ. 2 of 4 probably won't even play for Magic next year ( one won't for sure ).


There are only three objective options here:
a) flip vets to multiple lower salary players and picks
b) flip some young guys into actually proven players without mortgaging whole future
c) flip all assets for superstar

a) option can easly end up being disaster that costs them their jobs, that's main reason why they don't do it
b) option requires talent, some luck and good eye for a talent. Not what we saw from We-Ham last 3 years
c) option is least realistic mostly because not many superstars are traded, but it's easiest path to being relevant franchise.


Or you can do nothing, be one year older, still pretend that Isaac was your Durant and him not playing you are robbed of some HOF - 30 000 career points player, while he was 12 ppg, defense only player. Not my problem.
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#189 » by zaymon » Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:14 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
zaymon wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
IF Fultz can't be treat and demands no attention pass 15 feet, he is no go for long term starter. And there is no objective reason to belive he can do that.
Bamba most of the nights isn't best backup C on the floor, while being only backup C on the floor, as half of the teams don't even use backup Cs any more ( Celtics, Heat for example ).

Raptors are keeping Lowry, Siakam, OG and Powell, they can now use rest of the cap to sign somebody like Derick Favors ( to replace Gasol) and go over cap to keep Vleet and Ibaka (Ibaka shorter contract , Vleet longer, obviouslly ).

We will see how much Wall declined.
Bulls with actual coach and 4th pick could be suprising team, they will have finally have healthy Porter.
Hawks now actually have nba level backup PG and actual center for once ( and backup C ).
If Pacers lose Oladipo is that really big deal? Brogdon, TJ Warren, Sabonis,Turner... more than enough to still win 45-48 games.

It's not set in stones this team is making playoffs next year.


Young teams rarely make playoffs. If we can make it in stronger east next year while having Fultz, Okeke, Bamba and our 2020 frp in rotation I call it a good season. Look at successful "young" teams. Max 2 young players < 24.

Boston: Walker 30, Hayward 30, Wanamaker 30, Theis 28, Kanter 27, Smart 26, Brown 24, Tatum 22
Heat: Dragic 34, Butler 31, Crowder 30, Olynyk 29, Robinson 26, Nunn 24, Adebayo 23, Herro 20
Denver: Millsap 35, Barton 29, Craig 29, Harris 26, Grant 26, Jokic 25, Morris 25, Murray 23, Porter 22


While we this year:

Augustin 32, Ennis 30, Vucevic 29, Ross 29, MCW 28, Fournier 27, Aaron Gordon 25, Fultz 22, Isaac 22, Bamba 22.

If we can add Okeke 22, and another 20 y.o rookie and make playoffs it will be outlier. Such young teams very rarely succed. Especially with such raw or flawed prospects as Fultz and Bamba. How could anybody expect we will be top 4 team this year with that many injuries ? Madness. If we cant make it to the post season we will be in the lottery in propably very strong draft. Its basically win- win with such a young rotation.



So good season is sucking with young guys now? I guess Suns and Kings are kings (pun intended ) of sucess :lol:

If Magic make playoffs, once again, it will be despite young players, not because of them. Where Celtics and Nuggets make playoffs because of their young players. Because their young players are actually talented and productive.


I would argue if we have worse young talent than Miami. Adebayo is great, but Isaac still has similar ceiling to me. Herro is great, but he is basically Fournier lite. Yes Boston and Denver are both a lot better but i compared us to best 4 teams ;)
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#190 » by j-ragg » Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:29 pm

zaymon wrote:I would argue if we have worse young talent than Miami.

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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#191 » by MagicMatic » Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:05 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
zaymon wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
IF Fultz can't be treat and demands no attention pass 15 feet, he is no go for long term starter. And there is no objective reason to belive he can do that.
Bamba most of the nights isn't best backup C on the floor, while being only backup C on the floor, as half of the teams don't even use backup Cs any more ( Celtics, Heat for example ).

Raptors are keeping Lowry, Siakam, OG and Powell, they can now use rest of the cap to sign somebody like Derick Favors ( to replace Gasol) and go over cap to keep Vleet and Ibaka (Ibaka shorter contract , Vleet longer, obviouslly ).

We will see how much Wall declined.
Bulls with actual coach and 4th pick could be suprising team, they will have finally have healthy Porter.
Hawks now actually have nba level backup PG and actual center for once ( and backup C ).
If Pacers lose Oladipo is that really big deal? Brogdon, TJ Warren, Sabonis,Turner... more than enough to still win 45-48 games.

It's not set in stones this team is making playoffs next year.


Young teams rarely make playoffs. If we can make it in stronger east next year while having Fultz, Okeke, Bamba and our 2020 frp in rotation I call it a good season. Look at successful "young" teams. Max 2 young players < 24.

Boston: Walker 30, Hayward 30, Wanamaker 30, Theis 28, Kanter 27, Smart 26, Brown 24, Tatum 22
Heat: Dragic 34, Butler 31, Crowder 30, Olynyk 29, Robinson 26, Nunn 24, Adebayo 23, Herro 20
Denver: Millsap 35, Barton 29, Craig 29, Harris 26, Grant 26, Jokic 25, Morris 25, Murray 23, Porter 22


While we this year:

Augustin 32, Ennis 30, Vucevic 29, Ross 29, MCW 28, Fournier 27, Aaron Gordon 25, Fultz 22, Isaac 22, Bamba 22.

If we can add Okeke 22, and another 20 y.o rookie and make playoffs it will be outlier. Such young teams very rarely succed. Especially with such raw or flawed prospects as Fultz and Bamba. How could anybody expect we will be top 4 team this year with that many injuries ? Madness. If we cant make it to the post season we will be in the lottery in propably very strong draft. Its basically win- win with such a young rotation.



There are only three objective options here:
a) flip vets to multiple lower salary players and picks
b) flip some young guys into actually proven players without mortgaging whole future
c) flip all assets for superstar

a) option can easly end up being disaster that costs them their jobs, that's main reason why they don't do it
b) option requires talent, some luck and good eye for a talent. Not what we saw from We-Ham last 3 years
c) option is least realistic mostly because not many superstars are traded, but it's easiest path to being relevant franchise.

Or you can do nothing, be one year older, still pretend that Isaac was your Durant and him not playing you are robbed of some HOF - 30 000 career points player, while he was 12 ppg, defense only player. Not my problem.


They should have been slowly doing option A this entire time. Which is why most people were wondering wtf they were doing 1 year into their tenure as “evaluation”. They’ve lost the luxury of time now. Too bad.

They could have been building up and it probably wouldn’t have been too different an outcome comparatively. Options B and C require a better asset pool, which is something we obviously don’t have because they aren’t good at acquiring talent.
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#192 » by Skin » Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:51 pm

zaymon wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:At the end of a day, this is make it or break it year for Weltman and Hammond. Without any cap flexibility, with Isaac out and being forced into blind -resign, only way to improve this team is via trades.
If they do nothing for whole year, and Magic are ( as expected ) 7-9th seed, or lower, they should be on hot seats.

If Fultz, Okeke and Bamba take another step i have nothing against finishing 7-9. If Fultz shoots from 3, Okeke starts and Bamba becomes best reserve center in the nba it could still be not enough to finish above 7, especially with injuries. Pacers could be worse, 76ers could implode, maybe Toronto will lose some veterans, but Nets will be better and Wizards could be good ( i dont think so unless they get some better veterans).

Amen.

I don't care what our record looks like. If these things happened, I'd say we're progressing and that's all I want.

1) Markelle takes over as the unquestioned starter and starts shooting from 3.
2) Okeke shows out as a 3 and D player.
3) Bamba gets right with his conditioning and shows out as a 3 and D player.
4) The rookie that we draft has some NBA ready now skills and gets a lot of playing time.
Fultz, _____, Okeke, Isaac, Bamba. LET'S GO!
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#193 » by pepe1991 » Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:01 pm

Skin wrote:
zaymon wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:At the end of a day, this is make it or break it year for Weltman and Hammond. Without any cap flexibility, with Isaac out and being forced into blind -resign, only way to improve this team is via trades.
If they do nothing for whole year, and Magic are ( as expected ) 7-9th seed, or lower, they should be on hot seats.

If Fultz, Okeke and Bamba take another step i have nothing against finishing 7-9. If Fultz shoots from 3, Okeke starts and Bamba becomes best reserve center in the nba it could still be not enough to finish above 7, especially with injuries. Pacers could be worse, 76ers could implode, maybe Toronto will lose some veterans, but Nets will be better and Wizards could be good ( i dont think so unless they get some better veterans).

Amen.

I don't care what our record looks like. If these things happened, I'd say we're progressing and that's all I want.

1) Markelle takes over as the unquestioned starter and starts shooting from 3.
2) Okeke shows out as a 3 and D player.
3) Bamba gets right with his conditioning and shows out as a 3 and D player.
4) The rookie that we draft has some NBA ready now skills and gets a lot of playing time.


1) Nothing stops Fultz from shooting now other than his condition so his issue is irrelevant who he plays with
2) Okeke is yet to show he is NBA player. This might be most overhyped post ACL tear, two years away from basketball, not even lottery pick in nba history by Orlando fans
3) nobody stopped him from being just that for 2 years straight other than his inability to be that
4) and once again, it's on him, not players around him to be nba ready

Hawks are also just few steps from 60 wins ... if..
a) Cam Reddish becomes new Kawhi
b) Trae Young grows up 3 inches and gets 30 pounds of muscles
c) De'andre Hunter is new Klay Thompson

it's not impossible it's just highly unlikely.
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#194 » by MagicMatic » Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:04 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
Skin wrote:
zaymon wrote:If Fultz, Okeke and Bamba take another step i have nothing against finishing 7-9. If Fultz shoots from 3, Okeke starts and Bamba becomes best reserve center in the nba it could still be not enough to finish above 7, especially with injuries. Pacers could be worse, 76ers could implode, maybe Toronto will lose some veterans, but Nets will be better and Wizards could be good ( i dont think so unless they get some better veterans).

Amen.

I don't care what our record looks like. If these things happened, I'd say we're progressing and that's all I want.

1) Markelle takes over as the unquestioned starter and starts shooting from 3.
2) Okeke shows out as a 3 and D player.
3) Bamba gets right with his conditioning and shows out as a 3 and D player.
4) The rookie that we draft has some NBA ready now skills and gets a lot of playing time.


1) Nothing stops Fultz from shooting now other than his condition so his issue is irrelevant who he plays with
2) Okeke is yet to show he is NBA player. This might be most overhyped post ACL tear, two years away from basketball, not even lottery pick in nba history by Orlando fans
3) nobody stopped him from being just that for 2 years straight other than his inability to be that
4) and once again, it's on him, not players around him to be nba ready

Hawks are also just few steps from 60 wins ... if..
a) Cam Reddish becomes new Kawhi
b) Trae Young grows up 3 inches and gets 30 pounds of muscles
c) De'andre Hunter is new Klay Thompson

it's not impossible it's just highly unlikely.


I see what you are saying pepe, but the bigger takeaway to these idealistic “ifs” comes down to the fact that Orlando is still left in a position without a go-to scorer or star caliber player.

Simultaneously this leaves Orlando in a worse position to land said upper tier player they are lacking. That is unless someone makes an enormous leap in development that nobody saw coming.

Even if everything breaks perfectly, this team isn’t equipped for serious contention in its current situation. It would only mean Orlando has better role players and capable starters.
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#195 » by BlueBlazer » Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:12 pm

Unless it’s Giannis or Lebron, I don’t think it’s prudent to wage next year and beyond’s success on players returning from injury and just another year of cohesion. We need to starting being much more aggressive and take some swings in this bizarre offseason, because being passive has led us to constantly fail anyway without ANY possibility of success.
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#196 » by drsd » Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:49 am

pepe1991 wrote:At the end of a day, this is make it or break it year for Weltman and Hammond. Without any cap flexibility, with Isaac out and being forced into blind -resign, only way to improve this team is via trades.
If they do nothing for whole year, and Magic are ( as expected ) 7-9th seed, or lower, they should be on hot seats.


With Fournier looking certain to opt in (he just bought a $2.9M house in Winter Park: LINK )

And as Ennis also would project to opt-in, I think the real season to test the "modern" Magic roster will be the 2021/22 season. Indeed there is perhaps not a major overhaul expected this off-season, beyond the lone potential trade of Gordon.
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#197 » by tiderulz » Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:58 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
Skin wrote:
zaymon wrote:If Fultz, Okeke and Bamba take another step i have nothing against finishing 7-9. If Fultz shoots from 3, Okeke starts and Bamba becomes best reserve center in the nba it could still be not enough to finish above 7, especially with injuries. Pacers could be worse, 76ers could implode, maybe Toronto will lose some veterans, but Nets will be better and Wizards could be good ( i dont think so unless they get some better veterans).

Amen.

I don't care what our record looks like. If these things happened, I'd say we're progressing and that's all I want.

1) Markelle takes over as the unquestioned starter and starts shooting from 3.
2) Okeke shows out as a 3 and D player.
3) Bamba gets right with his conditioning and shows out as a 3 and D player.
4) The rookie that we draft has some NBA ready now skills and gets a lot of playing time.


1) Nothing stops Fultz from shooting now other than his condition so his issue is irrelevant who he plays with
2) Okeke is yet to show he is NBA player. This might be most overhyped post ACL tear, two years away from basketball, not even lottery pick in nba history by Orlando fans
3) nobody stopped him from being just that for 2 years straight other than his inability to be that
4) and once again, it's on him, not players around him to be nba ready

Hawks are also just few steps from 60 wins ... if..
a) Cam Reddish becomes new Kawhi
b) Trae Young grows up 3 inches and gets 30 pounds of muscles
c) De'andre Hunter is new Klay Thompson

it's not impossible it's just highly unlikely.

i think you are hating on the Hawks just a little. I know you dont like Young and thought he would be a bust. Collins is a legit scorer at PF and they have Capela to help shore up defense. Hunter projects as a solid 2-way wing. Reddish will be interesting to see how he develops, but he did play fairly decently especially as a rookie, in 2020 (12/4 in Jan, 13/3 in Feb, 17/4 in March). I dont believe Reddish has to become Kawhi like. And they will either add #6 or trade it for a player. and they have a lot of cap space.
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#198 » by pepe1991 » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:02 pm

tiderulz wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Skin wrote:Amen.

I don't care what our record looks like. If these things happened, I'd say we're progressing and that's all I want.

1) Markelle takes over as the unquestioned starter and starts shooting from 3.
2) Okeke shows out as a 3 and D player.
3) Bamba gets right with his conditioning and shows out as a 3 and D player.
4) The rookie that we draft has some NBA ready now skills and gets a lot of playing time.


1) Nothing stops Fultz from shooting now other than his condition so his issue is irrelevant who he plays with
2) Okeke is yet to show he is NBA player. This might be most overhyped post ACL tear, two years away from basketball, not even lottery pick in nba history by Orlando fans
3) nobody stopped him from being just that for 2 years straight other than his inability to be that
4) and once again, it's on him, not players around him to be nba ready

Hawks are also just few steps from 60 wins ... if..
a) Cam Reddish becomes new Kawhi
b) Trae Young grows up 3 inches and gets 30 pounds of muscles
c) De'andre Hunter is new Klay Thompson

it's not impossible it's just highly unlikely.

i think you are hating on the Hawks just a little. I know you dont like Young and thought he would be a bust. Collins is a legit scorer at PF and they have Capela to help shore up defense. Hunter projects as a solid 2-way wing. Reddish will be interesting to see how he develops, but he did play fairly decently especially as a rookie, in 2020 (12/4 in Jan, 13/3 in Feb, 17/4 in March). I dont believe Reddish has to become Kawhi like. And they will either add #6 or trade it for a player. and they have a lot of cap space.


You just defend them because you live there.
What's the positive take on 20-47 team , that last year was 29-53 team? They got even worst.
Funniest part about Atlanta is that both their offensive rating and defensive rating are actually worst than previous year. And ofc, win percentage got worst.

Only thing they had "going" witch means literally nothing in reality, is that they overstuffed roster with bunch of teens. And last time I check, nobody gives you youth-benefits for playing kids in professional league.

Cam Reddish and Hunter showed nothing. Their RPMs show they are some of the worst nba players among rotation players. Hunter isn't even that young. Guy turns 23 in 2 months.

And as far as their "core" of Collins and Young goes, sure they put up 29 and 21 ppg, but how many of those points are products of them playing garbage time , inflated by pace and playing no defense whatsoever? There was period of time when Kevin Love averaged 26 points and 15 rebounds a game (in separate years) where in reality he was at best 3rd best player on championship team where one guy had to be top 3 player of all time among players better than him to make it work.

One thing this playoffs this year showed and proved. Teams where 6'2 guys are best players never go anywhere, ragardless of talant. Lillard, Chris Paul, Westbrook combine for 0 nba finals. Even if you go in past and look at Nash, Kidd, Stockton , Iverson, result is always the same. They never won anything.
Steph is outliner who won ring in same year where Cavs lost Irving and Love and played bunch of nobodies and Lebron. Year later same Steph Curry- led team couldn't even finish 3-1 lead. And as history showed, without KD he would never play nor win nba finals of 2017 and 2018. And that's one of the best guards in nba history. Maybe best point guard since Magic ( who was 6'9 and not even your standard PG ).

Anyway. Hawks now have Capela, Collin, Young and bunch of other players, i still can't imagine them winning 35 games.
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#199 » by MagicMatic » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:42 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
1) Nothing stops Fultz from shooting now other than his condition so his issue is irrelevant who he plays with
2) Okeke is yet to show he is NBA player. This might be most overhyped post ACL tear, two years away from basketball, not even lottery pick in nba history by Orlando fans
3) nobody stopped him from being just that for 2 years straight other than his inability to be that
4) and once again, it's on him, not players around him to be nba ready

Hawks are also just few steps from 60 wins ... if..
a) Cam Reddish becomes new Kawhi
b) Trae Young grows up 3 inches and gets 30 pounds of muscles
c) De'andre Hunter is new Klay Thompson

it's not impossible it's just highly unlikely.

i think you are hating on the Hawks just a little. I know you dont like Young and thought he would be a bust. Collins is a legit scorer at PF and they have Capela to help shore up defense. Hunter projects as a solid 2-way wing. Reddish will be interesting to see how he develops, but he did play fairly decently especially as a rookie, in 2020 (12/4 in Jan, 13/3 in Feb, 17/4 in March). I dont believe Reddish has to become Kawhi like. And they will either add #6 or trade it for a player. and they have a lot of cap space.


You just defend them because you live there.
What's the positive take on 20-47 team , that last year was 29-53 team? They got even worst.
Funniest part about Atlanta is that both their offensive rating and defensive rating are actually worst than previous year. And ofc, win percentage got worst.

Only thing they had "going" witch means literally nothing in reality, is that they overstuffed roster with bunch of teens. And last time I check, nobody gives you youth-benefits for playing kids in professional league.

Cam Reddish and Hunter showed nothing. Their RPMs show they are some of the worst nba players among rotation players. Hunter isn't even that young. Guy turns 23 in 2 months.

And as far as their "core" of Collins and Young goes, sure they put up 29 and 21 ppg, but how many of those points are products of them playing garbage time , inflated by pace and playing no defense whatsoever? There was period of time when Kevin Love averaged 26 points and 15 rebounds a game (in separate years) where in reality he was at best 3rd best player on championship team where one guy had to be top 3 player of all time among players better than him to make it work.

One thing this playoffs this year showed and proved. Teams where 6'2 guys are best players never go anywhere, ragardless of talant. Lillard, Chris Paul, Westbrook combine for 0 nba finals. Even if you go in past and look at Nash, Kidd, Stockton , Iverson, result is always the same. They never won anything.
Steph is outliner who won ring in same year where Cavs lost Irving and Love and played bunch of nobodies and Lebron. Year later same Steph Curry- led team couldn't even finish 3-1 lead. And as history showed, without KD he would never play nor win nba finals of 2017 and 2018. And that's one of the best guards in nba history. Maybe best point guard since Magic ( who was 6'9 and not even your standard PG ).

Anyway. Hawks now have Capela, Collin, Young and bunch of other players, i still can't imagine them winning 35 games.


The difference is that their asset pool is much larger than Orlando. They can move multiple young players and picks in a package for a centerpiece because of how they drafted. Orlando can’t do that. Also, again we are talking about players that are 1-2 years into the league that have shown improvements along the way.

It’s not unfathomable that Atlanta hits on 1-2 of these guys and they strike big in the next season. They already have their young go-to guys in Collins/Young. That’s more than Orlando can say with a huge salary cap and boring team stuck in the middle.
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Re: Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($) 

Post#200 » by pepe1991 » Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:21 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
tiderulz wrote:i think you are hating on the Hawks just a little. I know you dont like Young and thought he would be a bust. Collins is a legit scorer at PF and they have Capela to help shore up defense. Hunter projects as a solid 2-way wing. Reddish will be interesting to see how he develops, but he did play fairly decently especially as a rookie, in 2020 (12/4 in Jan, 13/3 in Feb, 17/4 in March). I dont believe Reddish has to become Kawhi like. And they will either add #6 or trade it for a player. and they have a lot of cap space.


You just defend them because you live there.
What's the positive take on 20-47 team , that last year was 29-53 team? They got even worst.
Funniest part about Atlanta is that both their offensive rating and defensive rating are actually worst than previous year. And ofc, win percentage got worst.

Only thing they had "going" witch means literally nothing in reality, is that they overstuffed roster with bunch of teens. And last time I check, nobody gives you youth-benefits for playing kids in professional league.

Cam Reddish and Hunter showed nothing. Their RPMs show they are some of the worst nba players among rotation players. Hunter isn't even that young. Guy turns 23 in 2 months.

And as far as their "core" of Collins and Young goes, sure they put up 29 and 21 ppg, but how many of those points are products of them playing garbage time , inflated by pace and playing no defense whatsoever? There was period of time when Kevin Love averaged 26 points and 15 rebounds a game (in separate years) where in reality he was at best 3rd best player on championship team where one guy had to be top 3 player of all time among players better than him to make it work.

One thing this playoffs this year showed and proved. Teams where 6'2 guys are best players never go anywhere, ragardless of talant. Lillard, Chris Paul, Westbrook combine for 0 nba finals. Even if you go in past and look at Nash, Kidd, Stockton , Iverson, result is always the same. They never won anything.
Steph is outliner who won ring in same year where Cavs lost Irving and Love and played bunch of nobodies and Lebron. Year later same Steph Curry- led team couldn't even finish 3-1 lead. And as history showed, without KD he would never play nor win nba finals of 2017 and 2018. And that's one of the best guards in nba history. Maybe best point guard since Magic ( who was 6'9 and not even your standard PG ).

Anyway. Hawks now have Capela, Collin, Young and bunch of other players, i still can't imagine them winning 35 games.


The difference is that their asset pool is much larger than Orlando. They can move multiple young players and picks in a package for a centerpiece because of how they drafted. Orlando can’t do that. Also, again we are talking about players that are 1-2 years into the league that have shown improvements along the way.

It’s not unfathomable that Atlanta hits on 1-2 of these guys and they strike big in the next season. They already have their young go-to guys in Collins/Young. That’s more than Orlando can say with a huge salary cap and boring team stuck in the middle.


They are doing nothing but tanking for last 3 years, ofc they have lot of assets. 2020 pick will be their 4th top 10 pick in last 4 years. Those assets do not contribute to winning, at least did not to this date. They went from 29% win rate to 35% to 29% again. No progress whatsoever other than empty calory stats from individual players who are viewed as "young stars" because of free reing they have. ( wink wink Deamrcus Cousins " superstar" 27 ppg seasons on Kings while never being anything better than average player on unrealistic usage rate and all sad attemps from Kings to build roster around stat padding machine he was ).

Also Atlanta isn't place players go, but place where players go away from. Their biggest FA players they ever signed are Joe Johnson and Dan Roundfield, who signed for them 42 years ago ... Thats objective fact.

They might turn their assets to something great, but they also might waste another year chasing ping pong balls and end up paying Collins based on empty stats full max worth $140M and that's where their honeymoon of " building" ends.
If i had to predict i belive by the 2022 be capped out on Trae and Collins who will be stuck in first round until front office is fired or one of them demands a trade. Only thing worst than inflated salary is inflated ego of overrated star. (once again, wink wink Demarcus Cousins thinking he is superstar , rejecting $20M a year deal , being "insulted " by it. Now he can't even play basketball, year later ).

Is this grim prediction? Yes. And that's why it's objective. Vast majority of rebuilds via draft ending up being salary cap disaster via overpaying to keep current, emotionally attached to GMs who drafted them players..
If you go to some random 2013 draft you will see that not a single team that tanked that year actually had sucessful rebuild.
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