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Aaron Gordon - In or Out?

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Is Aaron Gordon a Building Block for Magic

Yes, Keep him, he still has potential
15
25%
No, Trade him, we know what he is
44
75%
 
Total votes: 59

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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#121 » by jezzerinho » Mon Oct 5, 2020 8:38 pm

Totally agree, xatticus.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#122 » by Rainwater » Mon Oct 5, 2020 9:54 pm

NW wrote:Getting the number 2 pick for Gordon without giving up at least the 15 or eating Wiggins contract? As a Warriors fan, could you at least take our front office out to dinner first before screwing them?


Yeah, completely agree with this post. Just don't see how GSW makes this trade without Orlando adding or taking a lot more.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#123 » by MagicMatic » Mon Oct 5, 2020 10:46 pm

Rainwater wrote:
NW wrote:Getting the number 2 pick for Gordon without giving up at least the 15 or eating Wiggins contract? As a Warriors fan, could you at least take our front office out to dinner first before screwing them?


Yeah, completely agree with this post. Just don't see how GSW makes this trade without Orlando adding or taking a lot more.


AG is likely our highest valued asset outside of Isaac, regardless of what he provides us on the court. Trading him and #15 for the #2 in this draft, with no returning player of value, is a risk WeHam wouldn’t take.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#124 » by Rainwater » Tue Oct 6, 2020 2:46 am

MagicMatic wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
NW wrote:Getting the number 2 pick for Gordon without giving up at least the 15 or eating Wiggins contract? As a Warriors fan, could you at least take our front office out to dinner first before screwing them?


Yeah, completely agree with this post. Just don't see how GSW makes this trade without Orlando adding or taking a lot more.


AG is likely our highest valued asset outside of Isaac, regardless of what he provides us on the court. Trading him and #15 for the #2 in this draft, with no returning player of value, is a risk WeHam wouldn’t take.


Being an asset on the current magic team is not saying much. Fultz is an asset for the magic and I doubt most teams would even touch him. And when your best asset is a guy who just tore his ACL and could barely stay on the floor that should tell you the current assets of the Magic.

AG is a role player, a known commodity; he is replaceable. Regardless of the the draft a #2 pick has a high potential of being an all star, who at worse would be just as good as AG at some point. There is no way I trade that pick alone for AG who would be a likely be a bench player in hopes of being an Iggy (who was a far superior player and an all star). If I were GS and AG was my only option, I would just take Wiseman and call it day. AG+15 for the second pick is a fair trade.

And honestly, it's the Magic that need to make this trade not the Warriors. GSW are contenders regardless if the magic make the trade or not. Vets are likely to sign just to contend and their owners are willing to pay. And pretty certain if the magic are not willing to deal they could likely find something just as good if not better.

The Magic on the other hand are an awful team with a desperate need of an All Star. With no cap space and below avg assets they should be doing everything in their power at the chance of getting an All Star. If that means giving up AG and the 15th so be it. We talk about how bad this draft class is that the 2nd overall pick is only worth only AG; if that is the case, the 15th pick is definitely not worth much either and we might as well give that up too.

If giving up AG and the 15th pick in a terrible draft for a chance at a potential star is considered risky than Weham needs to be fired because the alternative is to remain crappy. Pretty certain that AG and the 15 pick will likely not get you further than we got this year.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#125 » by pepe1991 » Tue Oct 6, 2020 6:22 am

MagicMatic wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
NW wrote:Getting the number 2 pick for Gordon without giving up at least the 15 or eating Wiggins contract? As a Warriors fan, could you at least take our front office out to dinner first before screwing them?


Yeah, completely agree with this post. Just don't see how GSW makes this trade without Orlando adding or taking a lot more.


AG is likely our highest valued asset outside of Isaac, regardless of what he provides us on the court. Trading him and #15 for the #2 in this draft, with no returning player of value, is a risk WeHam wouldn’t take.


I do not think GMs view Gordon as huge asset. He is role player attached with $18M price tag.

Very few players make that much money without being considered borderline allstars (Oladipo, Lavine, Bogdanovic, Sabonis...).

Also vast majority of nba teams do not have player that they can trade Gordon straight up, so it's always combination of lesser value ( by salary) , rookie scale contracts or some ever more payed ( probably grossly overpaid, projected to be a star, but didn't live up to money ) type player like Batum, Adams, Porter, Russell or Buddy Hield ... that require Magic adding even more salary to make trade possible and in almost all that scenarios Isaac, Bamba, 2020 pick or Okeke are gone.


Realistic trades are Nets get Gordon, Magic get Prince and Tample.
Hornets get Gordon, Magic get Zeller and Washington.
Bulls get Gordon, Magic get Thad Young and Arcidiacono ( and signed second round pick player )
Suns Get Gordon, Magic get Oubre and Jerome

Or some oddball trades like Magic get Warriors pick and Draymoond Green and send Gordon and Birch

With Vuc declining salary, as he is projected to be on bottom of top 50 highest payed players, he is probably better asset than Gordon.
Evan, as somebody who can shoot, on 1 year contract, is also better value than Gordon, especially in this day and age where it's almost impossible to play serious basketball without lot of shooters around.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#126 » by Bensational » Tue Oct 6, 2020 7:55 am

Pepe you're really undervaluing Gordon there.

I think a lot of teams would want to take the chance that post ASB Gordon can become a consistent thing. They'll trade for him knowing they'll get a great defender and Swiss army knife player. At 25, with a declining contract, he's a consistent 3pt shot away from being one of the best value players in the league.

Depending on how much each team needs those skills will dictate his value. If there's a run on forwards who might be able to contain LeBron/Kawhi/Luka just a little in the West then a bidding war might begin.

Minnesota, Golden State, Phoenix, Portland, Houston, Dallas, Utah all want that guy to get deeper into the playoffs (or just get in). In the East, Brooklyn, Boston and Indy could use that guy.

So then you start shaping up some of the potential offerings. Let's say a Gordon for Oubre swap is a possibility. Oubre now becomes the minimum and other teams know they have to be prepared to match that price if they want him.

Go through those other teams and start fishing out deals of comparable value.

Minny - Culver? The #1 - too much.
GSW - Wiggins - negative. #2 - too much.
Portland - CJ - too much. Simons/Collins - not enough.
Houston - Eric Gordon? After that it's Westbrook.
Dallas - nothing
Boston - Smart? Hayward - too expensive and expiring.
Brooklyn - Levert? Dinwiddie?
Indiana - Warren? Oladipo? Turner?

See how it kind of antes itself up? This doesn't factor in how badly those teams want Gordon and would be prepared to pay that price. But I would say that's closer to Gordon's market.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#127 » by Blue_and_Whte » Tue Oct 6, 2020 9:23 am

I have a hard time believing GS would gift us #2 without having to take on the Wiggins contract (which makes me throw up a little) Or that WeHam would mortgage our future with a stronger draft / FA class coming up. At least I’d like to think that. Wiggins has never really had a positive impact.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#128 » by Bensational » Fri Oct 9, 2020 6:15 pm

Clifford's comments on Gordon in the last Magic Pod Squad was nice to hear (AG talk around the 17 minute mark).



Summary:

- Post ASB and pre-stoppage, Clifford thought Gordon was playing the best basketball of his career. Rattled off his numbers, 9 rebounds, shooting 48% and 35%, but was emphatically impressed with his 6.7apg.

- Said part of it was increased transition and Gordon being a part of getting out and pushing those breaks more.

- Considers AG (and Vuc) the reason why the team was able to be good offensively against zone defenses, with their playmaking ability from inside and outside.

- Thinks AG can improve if he focuses more on using his power in post ups, instead of turnaround jumpers.

- Thinks the game will be completely different for AG if he can get up to 37-38% from 3.


Post ASB Gordon was really working at another level in terms of IQ and playing within the team. I'm much more inclined to keep him rather than trade him. Not because I think he's about to unlock untapped star level talent, but because I think he can and will be a central piece to a winning team in the near future. The Iggy/Draymond/Smart kind of guy.

Is that player worth keeping when we don't have a Curry/Klay/Tatum/Brown calibre player to go with him? Generally I'd say no, but I think we have more to gain by moving other players to see if they can return that star player instead. I would rather have Gordon + prospect than Fournier + prospect, or Bamba + prospect for example.

This just feels like the worst time to be considering trading him, if he's finally settling into the best version of his game. I'd rather keep him and see if his play does go up or not. I don't think his trade value will drop, and if his play improves it will only make it better.

I got the feeling from that interview with Clifford that the team's plan this offseason will be to add shooting. He specifically mentioned his offseason in Charlotte where they brought in Batum, Lin and Lee, and how their boost to perimeter performance (as well as further internal improvement from players) made a big difference for them. So I take that to mean we'll be scouring FA and trades for more guys like Ennis, and shooting depth.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#129 » by cedric76 » Fri Oct 9, 2020 6:54 pm

Bensational wrote:Clifford's comments on Gordon in the last Magic Pod Squad was nice to hear (AG talk around the 17 minute mark).



Summary:

- Post ASB and pre-stoppage, Clifford thought Gordon was playing the best basketball of his career. Rattled off his numbers, 9 rebounds, shooting 48% and 35%, but was emphatically impressed with his 6.7apg.

- Said part of it was increased transition and Gordon being a part of getting out and pushing those breaks more.

- Considers AG (and Vuc) the reason why the team was able to be good offensively against zone defenses, with their playmaking ability from inside and outside.

- Thinks AG can improve if he focuses more on using his power in post ups, instead of turnaround jumpers.

- Thinks the game will be completely different for AG if he can get up to 37-38% from 3.


Post ASB Gordon was really working at another level in terms of IQ and playing within the team. I'm much more inclined to keep him rather than trade him. Not because I think he's about to unlock untapped star level talent, but because I think he can and will be a central piece to a winning team in the near future. The Iggy/Draymond/Smart kind of guy.

Is that player worth keeping when we don't have a Curry/Klay/Tatum/Brown calibre player to go with him? Generally I'd say no, but I think we have more to gain by moving other players to see if they can return that star player instead. I would rather have Gordon + prospect than Fournier + prospect, or Bamba + prospect for example.

This just feels like the worst time to be considering trading him, if he's finally settling into the best version of his game. I'd rather keep him and see if his play does go up or not. I don't think his trade value will drop, and if his play improves it will only make it better.

I got the feeling from that interview with Clifford that the team's plan this offseason will be to add shooting. He specifically mentioned his offseason in Charlotte where they brought in Batum, Lin and Lee, and how their boost to perimeter performance (as well as further internal improvement from players) made a big difference for them. So I take that to mean we'll be scouring FA and trades for more guys like Ennis, and shooting depth.


Once AG understands that he isn't Paul George and stop this **** turn around jumpers, he ll be very helpful to our team
Prediction : weham will draft AARON NESMITH

AG for Johnson+culver+#17
use #17 to gamble on kopusevski (keep him oversee)


**** load of money under the cap for summer 2021

Core of the Future: Fultz, culver, chuma, JI, Mo, Kopusevski and AARON NESMITH
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#130 » by cedric76 » Fri Oct 9, 2020 7:06 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=19
Prediction : weham will draft AARON NESMITH

AG for Johnson+culver+#17
use #17 to gamble on kopusevski (keep him oversee)


**** load of money under the cap for summer 2021

Core of the Future: Fultz, culver, chuma, JI, Mo, Kopusevski and AARON NESMITH
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#131 » by KillMonger » Fri Oct 9, 2020 7:39 pm

cedric76 wrote:
Bensational wrote:Clifford's comments on Gordon in the last Magic Pod Squad was nice to hear (AG talk around the 17 minute mark).



Summary:

- Post ASB and pre-stoppage, Clifford thought Gordon was playing the best basketball of his career. Rattled off his numbers, 9 rebounds, shooting 48% and 35%, but was emphatically impressed with his 6.7apg.

- Said part of it was increased transition and Gordon being a part of getting out and pushing those breaks more.

- Considers AG (and Vuc) the reason why the team was able to be good offensively against zone defenses, with their playmaking ability from inside and outside.

- Thinks AG can improve if he focuses more on using his power in post ups, instead of turnaround jumpers.

- Thinks the game will be completely different for AG if he can get up to 37-38% from 3.


Post ASB Gordon was really working at another level in terms of IQ and playing within the team. I'm much more inclined to keep him rather than trade him. Not because I think he's about to unlock untapped star level talent, but because I think he can and will be a central piece to a winning team in the near future. The Iggy/Draymond/Smart kind of guy.

Is that player worth keeping when we don't have a Curry/Klay/Tatum/Brown calibre player to go with him? Generally I'd say no, but I think we have more to gain by moving other players to see if they can return that star player instead. I would rather have Gordon + prospect than Fournier + prospect, or Bamba + prospect for example.

This just feels like the worst time to be considering trading him, if he's finally settling into the best version of his game. I'd rather keep him and see if his play does go up or not. I don't think his trade value will drop, and if his play improves it will only make it better.

I got the feeling from that interview with Clifford that the team's plan this offseason will be to add shooting. He specifically mentioned his offseason in Charlotte where they brought in Batum, Lin and Lee, and how their boost to perimeter performance (as well as further internal improvement from players) made a big difference for them. So I take that to mean we'll be scouring FA and trades for more guys like Ennis, and shooting depth.


Once AG understands that he isn't Paul George and stop this **** turn around jumpers, he ll be very helpful to our team
I'm not counting on that
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#132 » by fendilim » Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:01 am

KillMonger wrote:
cedric76 wrote:
Bensational wrote:Clifford's comments on Gordon in the last Magic Pod Squad was nice to hear (AG talk around the 17 minute mark).



Summary:

- Post ASB and pre-stoppage, Clifford thought Gordon was playing the best basketball of his career. Rattled off his numbers, 9 rebounds, shooting 48% and 35%, but was emphatically impressed with his 6.7apg.

- Said part of it was increased transition and Gordon being a part of getting out and pushing those breaks more.

- Considers AG (and Vuc) the reason why the team was able to be good offensively against zone defenses, with their playmaking ability from inside and outside.

- Thinks AG can improve if he focuses more on using his power in post ups, instead of turnaround jumpers.

- Thinks the game will be completely different for AG if he can get up to 37-38% from 3.


Post ASB Gordon was really working at another level in terms of IQ and playing within the team. I'm much more inclined to keep him rather than trade him. Not because I think he's about to unlock untapped star level talent, but because I think he can and will be a central piece to a winning team in the near future. The Iggy/Draymond/Smart kind of guy.

Is that player worth keeping when we don't have a Curry/Klay/Tatum/Brown calibre player to go with him? Generally I'd say no, but I think we have more to gain by moving other players to see if they can return that star player instead. I would rather have Gordon + prospect than Fournier + prospect, or Bamba + prospect for example.

This just feels like the worst time to be considering trading him, if he's finally settling into the best version of his game. I'd rather keep him and see if his play does go up or not. I don't think his trade value will drop, and if his play improves it will only make it better.

I got the feeling from that interview with Clifford that the team's plan this offseason will be to add shooting. He specifically mentioned his offseason in Charlotte where they brought in Batum, Lin and Lee, and how their boost to perimeter performance (as well as further internal improvement from players) made a big difference for them. So I take that to mean we'll be scouring FA and trades for more guys like Ennis, and shooting depth.


Once AG understands that he isn't Paul George and stop this **** turn around jumpers, he ll be very helpful to our team
I'm not counting on that

not too late. iguodala realized that later in his career, on another team.

guys we have here are good enough to give us the 8th seed every yr, but if we want to move up, a painful rebuild will have to happen.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#133 » by PrimeThyme » Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:16 am

If it was for a guard/forward with upside on a rookie deal you could certainly talk me into moving him. But what you couldn't talk me into doing is moving him for a veteran rental who would only benefit us in the short term.

Isaac's health has made AG much less moveable for me. Until I see Okeke on a basketball court he won't make me eager to move AG either.

We're in a pretty bad place right now. It would be a great time to strike gold with our draft pick this year but I don't really have any confidence that Weltman will pull that off.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#134 » by KillMonger » Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:48 am

PrimeThyme wrote:If it was for a guard/forward with upside on a rookie deal you could certainly talk me into moving him. But what you couldn't talk me into doing is moving him for a veteran rental who would only benefit us in the short term.

Isaac's health has made AG much less moveable for me. Until I see Okeke on a basketball court he won't make me eager to move AG either.

We're in a pretty bad place right now. It would be a great time to strike gold with our draft pick this year but I don't really have any confidence that Weltman will pull that off.

But it shouldn't for the front office.....JI got injured in January earlier this year with reports saying he was out for the year and the trade deadline was Feb.......Reports were AG was close to getting traded we just didn't get our asking price.....so injury didn't stop them from shopping and almost trading him then why would it now?
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#135 » by PrimeThyme » Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:22 am

KillMonger wrote:But it shouldn't for the front office.....JI got injured in January earlier this year with reports saying he was out for the year and the trade deadline was Feb.......Reports were AG was close to getting traded we just didn't get our asking price.....so injury didn't stop them from shopping and almost trading him then why would it now?

Isaac hadn't suffered another injury and torn his ACL in January. That's now another major injury he has suffered on top of the ankle and the original knee injury he suffered in December.

From what I've heard from people like Lowe, it's not like they have been holding a firesale on AG. It's going to take the right deal to move him, and I think Isaac's injury history has to at least factor into it somewhat. Even from a win-now perspective, which this FO clearly has, they can't feel as comfortable filling AG's spot with Aminu/Okeke as they would have been when they thought Isaac would be back next year. If this was a full rebuild, there would be no hesitation to move him, but, unfortunately, it's not. The FO has chosen this route and they now have to consider the short-term ramifications of trading AG without a healthy Isaac.

Again tho, I'm not saying that he shouldn't be moved if there is another forward/guard on the trade market with upside (or in a deal to move up in the draft), but I wouldn't be as eager to move him as I was in January before Isaac suffered another major injury.

It all depends on what you're getting back in a trade.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#136 » by KillMonger » Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:53 am

PrimeThyme wrote:
KillMonger wrote:But it shouldn't for the front office.....JI got injured in January earlier this year with reports saying he was out for the year and the trade deadline was Feb.......Reports were AG was close to getting traded we just didn't get our asking price.....so injury didn't stop them from shopping and almost trading him then why would it now?

Isaac hadn't suffered another injury and torn his ACL in January. That's now another major injury he has suffered on top of the ankle and the original knee injury he suffered in December.

From what I've heard from people like Lowe, it's not like they have been holding a firesale on AG. It's going to take the right deal to move him, and I think Isaac's injury history has to at least factor into it somewhat. Even from a win-now perspective, which this FO clearly has, they can't feel as comfortable filling AG's spot with Aminu/Okeke as they would have been when they thought Isaac would be back next year. If this was a full rebuild, there would be no hesitation to move him, but, unfortunately, it's not. The FO has chosen this route and they now have to consider the short-term ramifications of trading AG without a healthy Isaac.

Again tho, I'm not saying that he shouldn't be moved if there is another forward/guard on the trade market with upside (or in a deal to move up in the draft), but I wouldn't be as eager to move him as I was in January before Isaac suffered another major injury.

It all depends on what you're getting back in a trade.

thats what i've been saying all along the only reason they didn't move him at the deadline was because they wouldn't move off their asking price....If they get their asking price AG is gone regardless of JI being injured or not since that's what a GM should do, They're not going to trade him for a bag of chips but if they're going to trade him now is a great time to do so......Vuc too as they're both players that other teams might feel is that one piece to put them over the top.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#137 » by Bensational » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:06 am

If they get their asking price on any player then I'm sure they're getting moved.

The big question is: 'what is the asking price?', followed by the question of how likely it is we get it.

Ie, sounds like Oubre alone wasn't enough to get AG from Phoenix. Is it Oubre + #10? Or Bridges + #10? Johnson + #10? More? How much more? Do they want a young prospect, or proven commodity? Hopefully this sort of goss leaks out over the next month in the lead up to the draft, but nobody cares about us so nobody will likely ask, lol.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#138 » by fendilim » Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:52 am

Bensational wrote:If they get their asking price on any player then I'm sure they're getting moved.

The big question is: 'what is the asking price?', followed by the question of how likely it is we get it.

Ie, sounds like Oubre alone wasn't enough to get AG from Phoenix. Is it Oubre + #10? Or Bridges + #10? Johnson + #10? More? How much more? Do they want a young prospect, or proven commodity? Hopefully this sort of goss leaks out over the next month in the lead up to the draft, but nobody cares about us so nobody will likely ask, lol.
not sure where you’re hearing the oubre for ag deal, but based from what i read, it was the other way around. Ag alone wasnt enough for oubre. So they countered with some other deal.
https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2020/3/6/21168248/suns-made-a-late-push-for-aaron-gordon-at-trade-deadline
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#139 » by Bensational » Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:40 am

fendilim wrote:
Bensational wrote:If they get their asking price on any player then I'm sure they're getting moved.

The big question is: 'what is the asking price?', followed by the question of how likely it is we get it.

Ie, sounds like Oubre alone wasn't enough to get AG from Phoenix. Is it Oubre + #10? Or Bridges + #10? Johnson + #10? More? How much more? Do they want a young prospect, or proven commodity? Hopefully this sort of goss leaks out over the next month in the lead up to the draft, but nobody cares about us so nobody will likely ask, lol.
not sure where you’re hearing the oubre for ag deal, but based from what i read, it was the other way around. Ag alone wasnt enough for oubre. So they countered with some other deal.
https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2020/3/6/21168248/suns-made-a-late-push-for-aaron-gordon-at-trade-deadline


Ahhhh, was that it? Thanks for clarifying. Oh well, I guess WeHam didn't get their asking price?

Well, now Oubre is an expiring and we don't even get the benefit of a half season 'trial window' had we dealt for him at the deadline. So Oubre's value has to be down on our side now. If he didn't work out with our team and we had to ship him out at the following deadline, we'd be getting pennies on the dollar.

For Phoenix, I see the incentive for them to throw some extra youth assets at securing the right player to get them over the line and back into the playoffs. Is Gordon it? I don't know. But they've got expiring Oubre, Bridges, Johnson and #10, so they can afford to spend at least two of those on that new guy if they like them enough.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#140 » by Rainwater » Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:18 pm

fendilim wrote:
Bensational wrote:If they get their asking price on any player then I'm sure they're getting moved.

The big question is: 'what is the asking price?', followed by the question of how likely it is we get it.

Ie, sounds like Oubre alone wasn't enough to get AG from Phoenix. Is it Oubre + #10? Or Bridges + #10? Johnson + #10? More? How much more? Do they want a young prospect, or proven commodity? Hopefully this sort of goss leaks out over the next month in the lead up to the draft, but nobody cares about us so nobody will likely ask, lol.
not sure where you’re hearing the oubre for ag deal, but based from what i read, it was the other way around. Ag alone wasnt enough for oubre. So they countered with some other deal.
https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2020/3/6/21168248/suns-made-a-late-push-for-aaron-gordon-at-trade-deadline


I was just about to say, why would the suns give up the 10th pick and Oubre for AG. Oubre for AG is fair trade in my opinion.

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