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Aaron Gordon - In or Out?

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Is Aaron Gordon a Building Block for Magic

Yes, Keep him, he still has potential
21
25%
No, Trade him, we know what he is
62
75%
 
Total votes: 83

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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#221 » by MagicMatic » Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:54 am

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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#222 » by pepe1991 » Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:19 am

MagicMatic wrote:
zaymon wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Shocking

7th year player, $18M a year, comming of worst season since 2016-17, abysmal shooting splits, 0,00 BPM, adding negative 68 points by shots taken, having negative on-off court value, comming off in every single advanced stats as below average ---- has low trade value?

Even if you look at his statistical projection

Image

Things don't look too great.

Making points like " he would thrive with Nets" really means nothing. Who wouldn't ? Put DJ Augustin on Lakers and he looks like starting PG. Playing behind few superstars really isn't that hard. It's actually so easy that even Alex Caruso from time to time looks like nba player. There was period of time where Mathew Dillawidova looked like good player, mainly because he played behind Lebron.
Being very good player on your own and being valuable player in specific situation are two different things. Gordon is 3rd option on mediocre team. If you change Vuc and Evan for Durant and Irving, Gordon will still be mediocre 3rd option, but now, no longer it will be so obvious how medicore he is. Instad he will get WIDEEE open looks and wide open dunks, but also won't shoot 12 times on 21% usage a game but 9-10 times a game, on 15% usage and spend most of the possessions standing in corner.

Just like Kuzma went from 19ppg/ 15.5 shots, to and delusional fanboys called him future star, to 12 points/11 shots and same fanboys started petition to not give him championship ring, because he was that awful.

Maybe Morris twins are even better example, Marcus went from 20 ppg to 10 ppg going from Knicks to Clippers over span of 5 days. He was still very,very ,very average player on Knicks but somebody had to take shots.

(This doesn't mean Vuc or Evan should be 1# or 2# options by any streach of imagination, this post is my attemp to show how people deflate Gordon issues, by pointing out how he would look like with superstars, while ignoring what he is as stand alone nba player, and ignoring how everybody looks fine if you tag them along 2 allstar- superstar player ).


I really dont know why we didnt trade Gordon last year. We knew what player he is. We knew his value is propably inflated after playoffs. I hope we still get some assets for him.


This logic applies to Vuc as well pre- 4/$100m.



Vuc only played one year of his new contract. In that year, "last = this" year ( however you gonna call 2019-20 ) he had 28 points per game in playoffs.
But since playoffs ended and free agency is yet to start, how execlly could Magic trade him? :lol: in lockeroom during half time ?
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#223 » by zaymon » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:13 am

MagicMatic wrote:
zaymon wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Shocking

7th year player, $18M a year, comming of worst season since 2016-17, abysmal shooting splits, 0,00 BPM, adding negative 68 points by shots taken, having negative on-off court value, comming off in every single advanced stats as below average ---- has low trade value?

Even if you look at his statistical projection

Image

Things don't look too great.

Making points like " he would thrive with Nets" really means nothing. Who wouldn't ? Put DJ Augustin on Lakers and he looks like starting PG. Playing behind few superstars really isn't that hard. It's actually so easy that even Alex Caruso from time to time looks like nba player. There was period of time where Mathew Dillawidova looked like good player, mainly because he played behind Lebron.
Being very good player on your own and being valuable player in specific situation are two different things. Gordon is 3rd option on mediocre team. If you change Vuc and Evan for Durant and Irving, Gordon will still be mediocre 3rd option, but now, no longer it will be so obvious how medicore he is. Instad he will get WIDEEE open looks and wide open dunks, but also won't shoot 12 times on 21% usage a game but 9-10 times a game, on 15% usage and spend most of the possessions standing in corner.

Just like Kuzma went from 19ppg/ 15.5 shots, to and delusional fanboys called him future star, to 12 points/11 shots and same fanboys started petition to not give him championship ring, because he was that awful.

Maybe Morris twins are even better example, Marcus went from 20 ppg to 10 ppg going from Knicks to Clippers over span of 5 days. He was still very,very ,very average player on Knicks but somebody had to take shots.

(This doesn't mean Vuc or Evan should be 1# or 2# options by any streach of imagination, this post is my attemp to show how people deflate Gordon issues, by pointing out how he would look like with superstars, while ignoring what he is as stand alone nba player, and ignoring how everybody looks fine if you tag them along 2 allstar- superstar player ).


I really dont know why we didnt trade Gordon last year. We knew what player he is. We knew his value is propably inflated after playoffs. I hope we still get some assets for him.


This logic applies to Vuc as well pre- 4/$100m.


I think Vucevic value is the highest right now. He proved himself in the playoffs (at least on the surface), also skilled big man are more and more appreciated these days. Defensively there is a trend to involve 3 and 4 more in protecting the paint which lessens the defensive burden on centers.
With regard to our young core development Vucevic and Gordon are on the opposite side of the spectrum. Vucevic provides spacing and playmaking while Gordon makes life harder for everyone involved, especially Fultz and Isaac.
I cant see how those cases are similar.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#224 » by Topofthekey » Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:28 am

I think the issue with AG is one of expectations

AG isn't going to be the type of player who can carry a team. He's never going to be a superstar; one may even argue that he's not even star material

Invariably, people get disappointed when they expect AG to "dominate" or "explode" but it never happened

What AG can be though, is an elite role player on a contender

So either start building a contender, or trade him to a contender where he can be useful
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#225 » by UnFadeable21 » Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:38 pm

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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#226 » by Blue_and_Whte » Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:09 pm

zaymon wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
zaymon wrote:
I really dont know why we didnt trade Gordon last year. We knew what player he is. We knew his value is propably inflated after playoffs. I hope we still get some assets for him.


This logic applies to Vuc as well pre- 4/$100m.


I think Vucevic value is the highest right now. He proved himself in the playoffs (at least on the surface), also skilled big man are more and more appreciated these days. Defensively there is a trend to involve 3 and 4 more in protecting the paint which lessens the defensive burden on centers.
With regard to our young core development Vucevic and Gordon are on the opposite side of the spectrum. Vucevic provides spacing and playmaking while Gordon makes life harder for everyone involved, especially Fultz and Isaac.
I cant see how those cases are similar.

because they aren't. You could platoon AG's spot with Okeke, Clark, and Aminu and probably be ok. Theres nobody on this team who could replace Vuc's production. If they move him its a clear sign that they're tanking.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#227 » by Rainwater » Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:29 am

Topofthekey wrote:I think the issue with AG is one of expectations

AG isn't going to be the type of player who can carry a team. He's never going to be a superstar; one may even argue that he's not even star material

Invariably, people get disappointed when they expect AG to "dominate" or "explode" but it never happened

What AG can be though, is an elite role player on a contender

So either start building a contender, or trade him to a contender where he can be useful


Been saying this for years
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#228 » by Rainwater » Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:33 am

Per GB GSW pursuing kelly Oubre, guess AG wasn't the only option.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#229 » by Bensational » Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:48 am

Rainwater wrote:Per GB GSW pursuing kelly Obure, guess AG wasn't the only option.


Oubre + #10 for #2?

Who does Phoenix want that bad who would fit a young, playoff hopeful team? Is Edwards a fit? Ball looks too wild, be maybe? Haliburton would give them instant reliability.

Or do they try flip the #2 for something?
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#230 » by Ducklett » Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:15 am

If you guys think AG is bad, go look at Oubre's stats. Let's ignore that PHX in the bubble looked like a playoff team by subtraction of his play. Statistically, it is really rough.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#231 » by Rainwater » Sat Oct 31, 2020 4:18 am

Ducklett wrote:If you guys think AG is bad, go look at Oubre's stats. Let's ignore that PHX in the bubble looked like a playoff team by subtraction of his play. Statistically, it is really rough.


They love him in phoenix, his stats are pretty much the same as AGs if not better.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#232 » by Rainwater » Sat Oct 31, 2020 4:29 am

Bensational wrote:
Rainwater wrote:Per GB GSW pursuing kelly Obure, guess AG wasn't the only option.


Oubre + #10 for #2?

Who does Phoenix want that bad who would fit a young, playoff hopeful team? Is Edwards a fit? Ball looks too wild, be maybe? Haliburton would give them instant reliability.

Or do they try flip the #2 for something?


I agree, while I see Phoenix trading for the pick as they are young and rebounding, I don't know who exactly they would take. Could Booker play the 3 so Edwards play the 2? Ball makes the most sense since he can play the point but he is wild.

But I think the main reason that phoenix is doing this is because they don't want to lose Oubre for nothing. It seems like a good trade for both sides though.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#233 » by basketballRob » Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:04 am

Phoenix just went 8-0 without Oubre. Plus rumors are they want to cut salary. Not sure the Warriors would give up the 2, they're doing them a favor by taking his salary with the TPE.

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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#234 » by pepe1991 » Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:55 pm

basketballRob wrote:Phoenix just went 8-0 without Oubre. Plus rumors are they want to cut salary. Not sure the Warriors would give up the 2, they're doing them a favor by taking his salary with the TPE.

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Because it allows them to trade pick down, now ofc, i would not touch Oubre, but i would also not touch Wiggins. It's fair to assume somebody is abusing pain killers in that front office since Durant left. They are on autopilot, just being interested in one stiff wood after another.

They should probably just dump everything they have for Giannis or Ben Simmons as they own their 2# pick in 2020 but also T wolves pick next year that will probably once again be lottery pick. ( i mean come on, Towns and Russell and that defense will never reach .500 wins in serious basketball without some miracle coaching)
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#235 » by UnFadeable21 » Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:47 pm

Image

Orlando Magic send Aaron Gordon to the Timberwolves

Minnesota sends #17, expiring James Johnson and Omari Spellman.

Why for Orlando:

Magic would have picks 15, 17, 45

Would also clear out $40 million of expiring cap space for 2021 free agency.

Fourmier 17 million
Johnson 16 million
Berch 3 million
Ennis 2 million
Spellman 2 million

The only contracts Orlando would have on the books after this season would be

Vuc 24 million
Ross 12.5 million
Amino 10 million

Fultz RFA - Qualifying offer 16 million
Issac RFA - Q 10 million
Mo Bamba - team option 7.5 million


Magic - $46.5 million in committed salaries
Salary Cap $109 Million - Tax Line $132 million - Hard Cap $138 million
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#236 » by thelead » Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:49 pm

Gross
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#237 » by UnFadeable21 » Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:54 pm

thelead wrote:Gross


Magic would basically have two late lottery picks:

Pick 15 draft Maxey

Pick 17 draft Bey, McDaniel, Precious or anything your team needs.

And clear their books completely for the 2021 Big Free Agency Class with guys like Giannis, Dinwiddle, Beal, Olandipo, Drummond etc.

For reference, The Denver Nuggets traded the 25th pick to the OKC Thunder for Jermai Grant, a player very similar to Aaron Gordon and will be paid the same amount this off season.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#238 » by Bensational » Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:55 pm

If all you wanted for Gordon was expirings and a mid first then may as well trade him to Portland for Ariza + Simmons + their pick.

Wolves would have to include Culver instead of Spellman for my liking.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#239 » by UnFadeable21 » Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:05 pm

Bensational wrote:If all you wanted for Gordon was expirings and a mid first then may as well trade him to Portland for Ariza + Simmons + their pick.

Wolves would have to include Culver instead of Spellman for my liking.


The reason why I put Spellman in was because the money would be exact 18 million in and 18 million out for both teams. Gordon 18 million, Johnson 16 Million, Spellman 2 million.

Culver makes 6 million so him and Johnson would be 24 million in and too much for Orlando to take in for the deal to work. They would have to add a similar contract which the only guy would be Mo Bamba who also makes 6 million.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#240 » by zaymon » Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:00 pm

I get the feeling we could wait with Gordon trade until some bigger fish is available. #17 doesnt seem to move the needle for us when we have #15. If our target is not available at 15 it will not be available at 17. Maybe some future picks.
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