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Aaron Gordon - In or Out?

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Is Aaron Gordon a Building Block for Magic

Yes, Keep him, he still has potential
21
25%
No, Trade him, we know what he is
62
75%
 
Total votes: 83

basketballRob
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#361 » by basketballRob » Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:11 pm

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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#362 » by pepe1991 » Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:15 pm

yoyojw17 wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
yoyojw17 wrote:
You can throw out as many stats as you can feel like inorder to make your point.... but I never said to give him a bigger role... I discussed giving him a much more defined role on a better team. It's not that he needs the ball in his hand more... It's that he needs to focus on the things that he does well and not trying to be more than he can possibly be on a nightly basis... and that's his road to success.

and guess what... he had done that at the end of the last two seasons after spending the first half of those seasons trying to fill those "star roles" you discussed.

2019-2020 Post Allstar Break
15.4 pnt
8.9 reb
5.7 ast
1.2 blk
1.0 steals
48.7% shooting on 11.7 shots

2018-2019 Post Allstar Break
16.5 pnt
7.5 reb
4.1 ast
.9 blk
.7 steals
45.8% shooting on 13.9 shots
36.5% from 3 shooting 4.5 shots

Let's not act like those numbers are so easy for so many to achieve. And it's not by chance... because... anyone that watched him play could see his difference in mentality. So yes... being placed in a position where... he is needed to rebound and sprint the floor... take the open three... cut to the basket.... offensive rebound ... make the right play.... play the best defense that he can... YES... i believe he can be of great value to another team that can help define his role.

but as always... to each their own. :-)


Context:
2018-19 number of pre allstar games : 55
2018-19 number of post allstar games : 23

2019-20 : number of pre allstar games: 49
2019-20: number of post allstar games: 13


Adding more context: 2018-19 post allstar games Magic faced in 13 out of 23 games teams that are indeed -tanking or missing playoffs.

2019-20, Magic in 8 of last 13 games he faced played against either tanking teams or teams that have below .500 record, including 5 games against Hawks, Minessota and whatever was at that point left from Brooklyn. Stelth tankers of Sacramento and San Antonio.
Even more indicative is fact that out of 13 games he played, Magic actually didn't face any top tear team such as : Lakers, Clippers, Nuggets, Celtics or Bucks and they in fact only played Raptors from teams that actually made it to second round of playoffs that year.

So you might read his games as " change in mentality" because that's what you want read from them. I could be very cold blooded and say you are reaching for things they are not there . He played better after allstar games because :
1) sample size you use are ultra limiting -36 games over 2 years
2) quality of opponents in that period is pathetic
3) teams flat out tank after allstar game and throw garbage out there on purpose

This is like that period of time when Payton would decide to stat pad after allstar break and chase his triple doubles ( assists that didn't help offense and already secured rebounds who could have been taken by any other Magic player). Payton is breaking out he even shot 37% three, just don't look at sample size. Goes back next year, same old garbage. 3 years later. Same old garbage.

But there is an obvious change in his type of play in each of them. And it is that type of play that I am specifically referring to. SO YES.... small sample size or not... The narrative of post allstar game tanking or not....the correlation is obvious. That is the sole point of the conversation.

Not sure why so much effort is spent to devalue all of our player ...but yeah... apparently this entire team is "garbage" or has little to no value.... so i guess we're just up "S*** creek without a paddle".... once again... "To each their own" :)


I just pointed that his "improvment" happend when level of competition got much worst.

I don't put much effort in talking down about him, i pointed out that Magic were really never offered anything better than Oubre for him ( or nothing in general) and main reason for it is his price of $18M for average starter.
Much like any other player he has stranghts and weaknesses but his specific skillset isn't really best suited for lot of teams. You put him on great teams and he is doing his Robert Covington -Jae Crowder role. 3rd option on elite team with 2 superstars or 4th option with 1 superstar and 2 great offensive players. Issue is that Robert Covington and Jae Crowder are payed much, much less for same roles.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#363 » by yoyojw17 » Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:20 pm

basketballRob wrote:
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Gordon + #15 for reddish + #6.... i'll take it.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#364 » by cedric76 » Sun Nov 15, 2020 8:13 pm

yoyojw17 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
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Gordon + #15 for reddish + #6.... i'll take it.


If only
Welcome to the Steal of the draft ==> Mr Cole


Core of the Future: Fultz, Cole, chuma, JI, Mo
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#365 » by Tarheel » Sun Nov 15, 2020 8:39 pm

Can’t see the Hawks wanting AG when they have Collins. Too much duplication.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#366 » by UnFadeable21 » Sun Nov 15, 2020 8:41 pm

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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#367 » by The Real Dalic » Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:12 pm

UnFadeable21 wrote:
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They could draft Ball or Edwards and get AG while they give us Beasley to run with Fultz for the future. I really like the Wolves as a trade partner, even if Beasley isn't the one in involved.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#368 » by Bensational » Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:19 pm

That's why the Wolves want a 2nd lottery pick - to use on one of those guys. But I don't think Culver + #17 + #15 gets it for them and they don't have assets outside that other than the #1. I just don't see Atlanta or NYK taking that trade back offer.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#369 » by basketballRob » Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:29 pm

yoyojw17 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
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Gordon + #15 for reddish + #6.... i'll take it.
We'd be lucky to just get the 6.

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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#370 » by UnFadeable21 » Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:31 pm

17, Jarrett Culver & Expiring James Johnson for Aaron Gordon should do it.

Magic would have picks 15 and 17.

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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#371 » by Rainwater » Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:40 pm

yoyojw17 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
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Gordon + #15 for reddish + #6.... i'll take it.


Yeah, that is not happening. If you are going to **** the hawks at least take them out to dinner first, lol.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#372 » by Rainwater » Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:47 pm

Tarheel wrote:Can’t see the Hawks wanting AG when they have Collins. Too much duplication.


And Collins is just a far better player
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#373 » by UnFadeable21 » Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:56 pm

Dennis Schroder was traded for Danny Green and the 28th for reference for trade value around the league right now
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#374 » by dsg2021 » Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:26 pm

AG ain't going nowhere. We need our guy to help us get wins this year. He'd be more valuable later on into the season, incase, as well. Playing with fire if we let him go! There's another level there.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#375 » by Bensational » Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:46 pm

dsg2021 wrote:AG ain't going nowhere. We need our guy to help us get wins this year. He'd be more valuable later on into the season, incase, as well. Playing with fire if we let him go! There's another level there.


I kind of want to see him traded for that reason. Put him on a better team with a more defined role and the motivation to prove himself on a new team and I think he reaches his next level.
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#376 » by BlueBlazer » Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:10 pm

Bensational wrote:
dsg2021 wrote:AG ain't going nowhere. We need our guy to help us get wins this year. He'd be more valuable later on into the season, incase, as well. Playing with fire if we let him go! There's another level there.


I kind of want to see him traded for that reason. Put him on a better team with a more defined role and the motivation to prove himself on a new team and I think he reaches his next level.

Why are we obligated to help him reach his next level on another team? Because he’s a nice guy?
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#377 » by Bensational » Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:18 pm

BlueBlazer wrote:
Bensational wrote:
dsg2021 wrote:AG ain't going nowhere. We need our guy to help us get wins this year. He'd be more valuable later on into the season, incase, as well. Playing with fire if we let him go! There's another level there.


I kind of want to see him traded for that reason. Put him on a better team with a more defined role and the motivation to prove himself on a new team and I think he reaches his next level.

Why are we obligated to help him reach his next level on another team? Because he’s a nice guy?


Who said anything about obligation? I just said "want".
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#378 » by BlueBlazer » Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:23 pm

Bensational wrote:
BlueBlazer wrote:
Bensational wrote:
I kind of want to see him traded for that reason. Put him on a better team with a more defined role and the motivation to prove himself on a new team and I think he reaches his next level.

Why are we obligated to help him reach his next level on another team? Because he’s a nice guy?


Who said anything about obligation? I just said "want".

My point remains the same. Why want that?
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#379 » by UnFadeable21 » Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:35 pm



Inevitability of Aaron Gordon’s position may lead Orlando Magic to deal




After a season that everyone considers disappointing, with the Magic finishing 33-40 and eighth in the Eastern Conference for another five-game gentlemen’s sweep, the Magic seem ripe for change. Everyone is eager to see this team’s future take shape.

Even if the Magic were likely to finish somewhere near 2019’s 42-40 record if not for the large amount of injuries the team faced, the Magic were not likely making up the seven games separating them from the Philadelphia 76ers as the 7-seed.

The team has seemingly hit its ceiling. And the prospects for even internal improvement pushing the team ahead are not good with Jonathan Isaac likely out for the year. The Magic are poised for a bit of a transition.

And that inevitably means everything is on the table as the Magic look ahead to their future — even if part of their goal is to continue competing in the present.

It was no surprise then to hear the Magic are looking at moving up in this draft. Kevin O’Connor of The Ringer in his latest mock draft reported several NBA sources believe the Magic are trying to move up in the Draft by packaging Aaron Gordon with their pick.

Fans though are still a bit lukewarm on the prospect of trading Gordon. Most fans see him as a key young player to continue developing. Even then, without Isaac again in the lineup, the Magic could use Gordon as the starting power forward. This could be his chance to burst out and increase his value.

Most fans see Aaron Gordon as a bigger part of this team’s future than other players like Nikola Vucevic and Evan Fournier. They want to see the team move beyond an older generation of players that represent the most difficult time in franchise history. And it is also clear that Vucevic and Fournier do not fit the long, athletic, versatile vision the team is trying to build.

They may remain necessary to carry the Magic’s fledgling offense. But they also feel fairly expendable as the team plans their future.

As always, every move the Magic makes at this point needs to have purpose and accomplish some long-term goal or fit into the team’s long-term vision.

Everyone around the league seems to recognize that there is an inevitable breaking point between the Magic and Gordon. The team has Jonathan Isaac and Chuma Okeke as young building blocks. Both need a pathway to play. Al-Farouq Aminu’s deal will be tough to trade except as necessary to match salaries.

Gordon is the odd man out. It felt clear even when Isaac was playing as the fit between the two forwards was odd at best. Perhaps they could have gotten one more year to figure it out, but Isaac is out now.

The Magic are coming to a decision and Gordon is one of the biggest chips they have to play.

They clearly believe they can use him to get higher in this Draft and take a player they want. But they should also feel comfortable enough to wait things out if that deal does not present itself. Gordon still has two years left on his deal, there is no deadline pressure to deal him.

Still, that pressure point is coming. The inevitable split seems on the horizon.



https://www.orlandomagicdaily.com/2020/11/13/inevitability-aaron-gordon-position-orlando-magic-deal/amp/
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Re: Aaron Gordon - In or Out? 

Post#380 » by Bensational » Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:50 am

BlueBlazer wrote:
Bensational wrote:
BlueBlazer wrote:Why are we obligated to help him reach his next level on another team? Because he’s a nice guy?


Who said anything about obligation? I just said "want".

My point remains the same. Why want that?


Why want to see someone do well even if they're not on my team? I suppose it's because I'm not an utter douchebag. How's that answer for you?

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