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Sacrilege- trade Isaac

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Sacrilege- trade Isaac 

Post#1 » by Skybox » Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:43 pm

Man, we love Jonathan Isaac. Me too. What move- nobody’s untouchable- could make sense?

He’s out a year. I’m not impatient, but we do have other, perhaps lesser guys like AG, Okeke, Aminu at his spot and, despite his injury, I would think he’s got tremendous value.

How about MPJ? Is he an offensive superstar in the making or an inefficient punk? I don’t see DEN missing a year of contention waiting but how good would he be next to the other Nikola? Their “injury risks” are arguable.

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Re: Sacrilege- trade Isaac 

Post#2 » by p0peye » Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:54 pm

Isaac on Nuggets has the potential to be wicked. MPJ has offensive potential with a bit of diva attitude. Both are high risks to have injuries derail their careers. How about AG for MPJ + salary dump of sort?
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Re: Sacrilege- trade Isaac 

Post#3 » by Max Power » Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:25 pm

Honestly, if I’m trading Issac, a star needs to be involved on the other side. Something that really moves the needle for this franchise turning a corner. An Issac for a star straight up won’t work mind you, I’m not that starry eyed on JI to think that’s a possibility. Maybe JI and Fournier for a CJ McCollum, Anfernee Simons and a Portland big guy. That’s just an example though, not a deal I’m necessarily advocating.
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Re: Sacrilege- trade Isaac 

Post#4 » by JRoy » Sat Sep 26, 2020 4:55 pm

Max Power wrote:Honestly, if I’m trading Issac, a star needs to be involved on the other side. Something that really moves the needle for this franchise turning a corner. An Issac for a star straight up won’t work mind you, I’m not that starry eyed on JI to think that’s a possibility. Maybe JI and Fournier for a CJ McCollum, Anfernee Simons and a Portland big guy. That’s just an example though, not a deal I’m necessarily advocating.


As a POR fan I’d do that.

I’m a sucker for the terrific defensive player with injury issues.

How about CJ, Simons and Little for Crepes and JI?
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Re: Sacrilege- trade Isaac 

Post#5 » by BlueBlazer » Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:48 pm

Don’t you have to pass a physical to be traded?
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Re: Sacrilege- trade Isaac 

Post#6 » by tiderulz » Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:58 pm

Max Power wrote:Honestly, if I’m trading Issac, a star needs to be involved on the other side. Something that really moves the needle for this franchise turning a corner. An Issac for a star straight up won’t work mind you, I’m not that starry eyed on JI to think that’s a possibility. Maybe JI and Fournier for a CJ McCollum, Anfernee Simons and a Portland big guy. That’s just an example though, not a deal I’m necessarily advocating.

the only problem. Isaac isnt a star himself, so very unlikely he could return a star. Isaac is a defensive role player who cant stay healthy.
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Re: Sacrilege- trade Isaac 

Post#7 » by PrimeThyme » Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:31 pm

The problem is with him suffering another major long term injury you are basically going to be trading him for ten cents on the dollar.

I mean it really can't be understated how catastrophic that injury was for the future prospects of this team. Not only does it significantly lower the ceiling of the already limited ceiling this roster had, but it pretty much just leaves us in a wait and see approach with him for at least the next year and a half to see if he can come back and stay healthy as his trade value has plummeted, and rightfully so.
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Re: Sacrilege- trade Isaac 

Post#8 » by SD2042 » Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:49 pm

BlueBlazer wrote:Don’t you have to pass a physical to be traded?


I think so. I recalled a Tyson Chandler trade that was reneged due to a non-disclosed injury that wasn't address within the contents of the trade itself.
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Re: Sacrilege- trade Isaac 

Post#9 » by MagicMatic » Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:25 pm

As bad as it is to admit... my expectations for Isaac are extremely low now due to his injuries. He’s going to be on the long list of players that are never 100% for whatever reason.

That’s being said, I wouldn’t move him now unless management believes he’s unsalvageable...which he likely isn’t. I wouldn’t say he’s untouchable, but I can’t see the offers being amazing for a player that can’t stay on the court.
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Re: Sacrilege- trade Isaac 

Post#10 » by Max Power » Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:06 pm

tiderulz wrote:
Max Power wrote:Honestly, if I’m trading Issac, a star needs to be involved on the other side. Something that really moves the needle for this franchise turning a corner. An Issac for a star straight up won’t work mind you, I’m not that starry eyed on JI to think that’s a possibility. Maybe JI and Fournier for a CJ McCollum, Anfernee Simons and a Portland big guy. That’s just an example though, not a deal I’m necessarily advocating.

the only problem. Isaac isnt a star himself, so very unlikely he could return a star. Isaac is a defensive role player who cant stay healthy.


Tide, that’s exactly in line with the point I was making. JI is injured. But I think he was on course with a star turn had he stayed healthy. And you’re right, a JI trade for say, Kevin Durant or Bradley Beal wouldn’t work straight up monetarily or in terms of equal player value at this point in time. That’s why I suggested a multiple piece trade with say Fournier or Gordon to tip the scales more even.

The reason I suggested such a scenario is even with this horrible injury, Issac still has the chance to be a star level player in this league and he’s arguable the Magic’s only possible long term cornerstone piece, so the return on trading him needs to be significant in my view.
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Re: Sacrilege- trade Isaac 

Post#11 » by BadMofoPimp » Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:45 pm

When Slims value is at his lowest is not the time to trade him.
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Re: Sacrilege- trade Isaac 

Post#12 » by Ducklett » Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:01 pm

I would trade him if we get something viable back.
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Re: Sacrilege- trade Isaac 

Post#13 » by SOUL » Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:22 pm

tiderulz wrote:
Max Power wrote:Honestly, if I’m trading Issac, a star needs to be involved on the other side. Something that really moves the needle for this franchise turning a corner. An Issac for a star straight up won’t work mind you, I’m not that starry eyed on JI to think that’s a possibility. Maybe JI and Fournier for a CJ McCollum, Anfernee Simons and a Portland big guy. That’s just an example though, not a deal I’m necessarily advocating.

the only problem. Isaac isnt a star himself, so very unlikely he could return a star. Isaac is a defensive role player who cant stay healthy.


This is only half true, especially when assessing young player value. He can't stay healthy but selling a 22 year old like Isaac who may have started to become a bigger offensive option next year if he wasn't injured as only a defensive role player (and by defensive role player, we're talking DPOY talks before his injury), is selling him a bit short. And it was an extremely small sample size, but he looked so much more fluid on offense when he returned just from how comfortable his shot was to him picking his spots. He's a good FT shooter and his overall FG/3PTFG improved this year too.

So phrasing it like that diminishes his value and makes it seem like teams would only look at him as a role player that plays defense when that isn't his ceiling at all. That may be what he turns out to be, but his health is the biggest thing. I knew a few Warriors fans who said they would have traded the #1 pick for Isaac and usually people expect stars there, so I think he had that value. Obviously not a superstar but he is a really good player when he's on the floor. We just need to donate him knees.
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Re: Sacrilege- trade Isaac 

Post#14 » by tiderulz » Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:23 pm

Max Power wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
Max Power wrote:Honestly, if I’m trading Issac, a star needs to be involved on the other side. Something that really moves the needle for this franchise turning a corner. An Issac for a star straight up won’t work mind you, I’m not that starry eyed on JI to think that’s a possibility. Maybe JI and Fournier for a CJ McCollum, Anfernee Simons and a Portland big guy. That’s just an example though, not a deal I’m necessarily advocating.

the only problem. Isaac isnt a star himself, so very unlikely he could return a star. Isaac is a defensive role player who cant stay healthy.


Tide, that’s exactly in line with the point I was making. JI is injured. But I think he was on course with a star turn had he stayed healthy. And you’re right, a JI trade for say, Kevin Durant or Bradley Beal wouldn’t work straight up monetarily or in terms of equal player value at this point in time. That’s why I suggested a multiple piece trade with say Fournier or Gordon to tip the scales more even.

The reason I suggested such a scenario is even with this horrible injury, Issac still has the chance to be a star level player in this league and he’s arguable the Magic’s only possible long term cornerstone piece, so the return on trading him needs to be significant in my view.

and thats where we will disagree. i dont think he was on course to be a star. I think a Draymond Green type of impact is the best we could hope for for him, but i also think Draymond has better handles. I also disagree that he is a cornerstone. he would have to finally get and stay healthy and drastically elevate his offensive game before i could call him that.
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Re: Sacrilege- trade Isaac 

Post#15 » by tiderulz » Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:27 pm

SOUL wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
Max Power wrote:Honestly, if I’m trading Issac, a star needs to be involved on the other side. Something that really moves the needle for this franchise turning a corner. An Issac for a star straight up won’t work mind you, I’m not that starry eyed on JI to think that’s a possibility. Maybe JI and Fournier for a CJ McCollum, Anfernee Simons and a Portland big guy. That’s just an example though, not a deal I’m necessarily advocating.

the only problem. Isaac isnt a star himself, so very unlikely he could return a star. Isaac is a defensive role player who cant stay healthy.


This is only half true, especially when assessing young player value. He can't stay healthy but selling a 22 year old like Isaac who may have started to become a bigger offensive option next year if he wasn't injured as only a defensive role player (and by defensive role player, we're talking DPOY talks before his injury), is selling him a bit short. And it was an extremely small sample size, but he looked so much more fluid on offense when he returned just from how comfortable his shot was to him picking his spots. He's a good FT shooter and his overall FG/3PTFG improved this year too.

So phrasing it like that diminishes his value and makes it seem like teams would only look at him as a role player that plays defense when that isn't his ceiling at all. That may be what he turns out to be, but his health is the biggest thing. I knew a few Warriors fans who said they would have traded the #1 pick for Isaac and usually people expect stars there, so I think he had that value. Obviously not a superstar but he is a really good player when he's on the floor. We just need to donate him knees.

didnt people say that about AG for like the past 6 years? He isnt very good on offense. sub par 3 pt shooter, in fact shoots 36% from 3 ft to 16 ft. not great handles.
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Re: Sacrilege- trade Isaac 

Post#16 » by Def Swami » Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:39 pm

The value of Isaac is going to go way up if you extend him to a bargain deal. To us as an asset and player and to other teams. But, his value is too low to sell now.
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Re: Sacrilege- trade Isaac 

Post#17 » by SOUL » Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:59 pm

tiderulz wrote:didnt people say that about AG for like the past 6 years? He isnt very good on offense. sub par 3 pt shooter, in fact shoots 36% from 3 ft to 16 ft. not great handles.


I think the thing with AG was that people were saying he would have NO offensive game, like, not even be able to shoot a three when he was drafted and he surpassed that pretty quickly, so people had higher expectations on offense when he showed he could play on the wing, but then obviously then people had TOO high expectations and he failed to meet that since he's pretty painfully mediocre as an offensive player.. besides his passing which I think has gotten really good for his position.

And my point isn't what he is or is not right now. Factoring in injuries, yes, people can become down on Isaac and I wouldn't blast them for it. I'm just saying that labeling him for what he is now and tying that in with perceived value isn't how most teams will look at young players. It's not like he's Jerome James out there. Hell, I'd say he's comparable value wise (pre-injury) to a Jaren Jackson Jr. who is a worse defender, worse rebounder, but looks more fluid as a shooter/scorer atm. But I think Jaren can improve his defense and rebounding and I think Isaac can get better on offense since he has shown some ability as a FT shooter, being crafty around the rim, and hitting threes from the corner.

Just saying if teams even pre-injury only looked at Isaac as a "defensive role player" as the best outcome and didn't perceive his value beyond that, it's another trade the Magic will regret.
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Re: Sacrilege- trade Isaac 

Post#18 » by BlueBlazer » Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:40 pm

SD2042 wrote:
BlueBlazer wrote:Don’t you have to pass a physical to be traded?


I think so. I recalled a Tyson Chandler trade that was reneged due to a non-disclosed injury that wasn't address within the contents of the trade itself.


Yeah I thought I heard something where both team doctors had to approve for a deal to be finalized.
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Re: Sacrilege- trade Isaac 

Post#19 » by Kent » Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:19 am

Def Swami wrote:The value of Isaac is going to go way up if you extend him to a bargain deal. To us as an asset and player and to other teams. [b]But, his value is too low to sell now.[/]


Agreed.

If I'm WeHam, of course you listen to other teams even for the guy you label "untouchable."

That's why I only move him if I'm floored by something.

But as Def Swami and some of you have already said, we're at a disadvantage trying to move him now.

Yes, other teams value the potential he still has. But with his injury, GMs aren't going to make serious and worthwhile offers.

That's why he's more valuable to us for the time being, and we have less to lose by sticking with him.
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Re: Sacrilege- trade Isaac 

Post#20 » by BadMofoPimp » Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:41 am

The chances of Slim being traded is about slim to none. No team in the entire NBA is looking to trade for a player who is not going to play for over a year and even when he comes back, wont know if he will still have the same abilities as before.
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