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Dennis Smith??

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Re: Dennis Smith?? 

Post#21 » by MagicFan101 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:25 pm

p0peye wrote:So is that the bar of what we wanna get out of 15th pick? Like a sure thing, so we can trade for? A guy that is not going to be resigned after rookie contract?



Well, the article talks of the Knicks wanting to trade down from #8 and DSjr being a throw in.

I’m just confused as to what we would have to add to the deal.

If Killian Hayes falls to #8 I’m very interested in converting the #15 into the #8 pick ... depending on what else we have to add. I have no interest in including AG.

People seem to being missing the #8 pick and only focusing on DSjr ...
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Re: Dennis Smith?? 

Post#22 » by pepe1991 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:31 pm

MagicFan101 wrote:
p0peye wrote:So is that the bar of what we wanna get out of 15th pick? Like a sure thing, so we can trade for? A guy that is not going to be resigned after rookie contract?



Well, the article talks of the Knicks wanting to trade down from #8 and DSjr being a throw in.

I’m just confused as to what we would have to add to the deal.

If Killian Hayes falls to #8 I’m very interested in converting the #15 into the #8 pick ... depending on what else we have to add. I have no interest in including AG.

People seem to being missing the #8 pick and only focusing on DSjr ...


It would probably be swap between Magic 15# pick and 8th pick.
Magic are not entering 2021 season with 3 rookies. No way in hell.
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Re: Dennis Smith?? 

Post#23 » by MagicFan101 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:36 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:
p0peye wrote:So is that the bar of what we wanna get out of 15th pick? Like a sure thing, so we can trade for? A guy that is not going to be resigned after rookie contract?



Well, the article talks of the Knicks wanting to trade down from #8 and DSjr being a throw in.

I’m just confused as to what we would have to add to the deal.

If Killian Hayes falls to #8 I’m very interested in converting the #15 into the #8 pick ... depending on what else we have to add. I have no interest in including AG.

People seem to being missing the #8 pick and only focusing on DSjr ...


It would probably be swap between Magic 15# pick and 8th pick.
Magic are not entering 2021 season with 3 rookies. No way in hell.


Any deal would be more involved than just that.

The Knicks are a bad organization but they aren’t bad enough to give away #8 for #15 without getting something else back.

My point is that I’m confused on what else would be included. I’m not giving up AG for anything on their roster other than RJ who isn’t available. So I’m not sure I see a deal they would want.
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Re: Dennis Smith?? 

Post#24 » by pepe1991 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:04 pm

MagicFan101 wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:

Well, the article talks of the Knicks wanting to trade down from #8 and DSjr being a throw in.

I’m just confused as to what we would have to add to the deal.

If Killian Hayes falls to #8 I’m very interested in converting the #15 into the #8 pick ... depending on what else we have to add. I have no interest in including AG.

People seem to being missing the #8 pick and only focusing on DSjr ...


It would probably be swap between Magic 15# pick and 8th pick.
Magic are not entering 2021 season with 3 rookies. No way in hell.


Any deal would be more involved than just that.

The Knicks are a bad organization but they aren’t bad enough to give away #8 for #15 without getting something else back.

My point is that I’m confused on what else would be included. I’m not giving up AG for anything on their roster other than RJ who isn’t available. So I’m not sure I see a deal they would want.


Randle? :dontknow: sounds like logical trade, salaries match
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Re: Dennis Smith?? 

Post#25 » by MagicFan101 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:32 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
It would probably be swap between Magic 15# pick and 8th pick.
Magic are not entering 2021 season with 3 rookies. No way in hell.


Any deal would be more involved than just that.

The Knicks are a bad organization but they aren’t bad enough to give away #8 for #15 without getting something else back.

My point is that I’m confused on what else would be included. I’m not giving up AG for anything on their roster other than RJ who isn’t available. So I’m not sure I see a deal they would want.


Randle? :dontknow: sounds like logical trade, salaries match


Are you saying you would trade AG for Randle just to move up 7 spots in this class?

Pass for me.

They can have Aminu or Birch or 2nd rounder. Therefore ... I don’t see a deal they would accept.
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Re: Dennis Smith?? 

Post#26 » by Bensational » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:30 pm

Pulling in the T-wolves and the rumour they want to trade down to pick up a win-now player...

MIN: Fournier + Randle + (#15 or future FRP)

NYK: #1 + James Johnson

ORL: #8 + DSJr


I would actually like to see how that Minnesota team went. Towns/Randle/Fournier/Beasley/Russell. They'd have the talent to compete, would just need to all get on the same page.
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Re: Dennis Smith?? 

Post#27 » by nicnac215 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:56 pm

MagicFan101 wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:
Any deal would be more involved than just that.

The Knicks are a bad organization but they aren’t bad enough to give away #8 for #15 without getting something else back.

My point is that I’m confused on what else would be included. I’m not giving up AG for anything on their roster other than RJ who isn’t available. So I’m not sure I see a deal they would want.


Randle? :dontknow: sounds like logical trade, salaries match


Are you saying you would trade AG for Randle just to move up 7 spots in this class?

Pass for me.

They can have Aminu or Birch or 2nd rounder. Therefore ... I don’t see a deal they would accept.

Id swap AG for Randle if we can move up and draft the guy we want.
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Re: Dennis Smith?? 

Post#28 » by SD2042 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:18 am

nicnac215 wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Randle? :dontknow: sounds like logical trade, salaries match


Are you saying you would trade AG for Randle just to move up 7 spots in this class?

Pass for me.

They can have Aminu or Birch or 2nd rounder. Therefore ... I don’t see a deal they would accept.

Id swap AG for Randle if we can move up and draft the guy we want.



Randle for his talents is reckless and selfish on offense and will prove to be a potential locker room problem. If he wasn't reckless and selfish, I think he would be a better overall. This team and Julius Randle can never link up. This guy needs to be around vets who will hold him accountable for his actions on the floor.
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Re: Dennis Smith?? 

Post#29 » by pepe1991 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:12 am

MagicFan101 wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:
Any deal would be more involved than just that.

The Knicks are a bad organization but they aren’t bad enough to give away #8 for #15 without getting something else back.

My point is that I’m confused on what else would be included. I’m not giving up AG for anything on their roster other than RJ who isn’t available. So I’m not sure I see a deal they would want.


Randle? :dontknow: sounds like logical trade, salaries match


Are you saying you would trade AG for Randle just to move up 7 spots in this class?

Pass for me.

They can have Aminu or Birch or 2nd rounder. Therefore ... I don’t see a deal they would accept.


No, i'm saying that is type of deal Knicks are looking for.
Moving few spots in a draft back,to take upgrade.

On paper Knicks shouldn't even be this bad, problem is complete lack of efficiency they have and concept of team defense.
Offense won't be upgraded with 3 PGs who can't shoot but good, smart GM could cook Knicks roster back into "watchable" fast.

Knicks can enter FA with proposed trade ( Smith, Randle for Gordon , pick swap) and offer VanVleet 4 years $70M contract and something like 3 years, $50M to Jeremi Grant ( or bit more for Otto Porter). Out of nowhere Knicks starting 5 is Vleet, Barrett, Grant, Gordon and MItchell Robinson. That's probably most balanced starting 5 in last decade for them.

But main reason why Knicks stayed irrelevant for years is that they try to go from zero to hero over span of 1 month and just miss on every single good FA under a sun.
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Re: Dennis Smith?? 

Post#30 » by Knightro » Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:01 pm

MagicFan101 wrote:Are you saying you would trade AG for Randle just to move up 7 spots in this class?

Pass for me.

They can have Aminu or Birch or 2nd rounder. Therefore ... I don’t see a deal they would accept.


If Killian Hayes is available at 8 and you really like him that much, then sacrificing Gordon to get him really isn’t a big deal when you look at from a wider perspective.

Essentially you’d be giving up 2 years of Gordon for at least 5 of Hayes and probably 7 or 8 or if he’s good because almost every good player signs an extension off their rookie deal with the team that drafted them.

If Hayes ends up being an all-star caliber guard, then it really won’t matter if the Magic gave up Gordon to get him, ya know?
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Re: Dennis Smith?? 

Post#31 » by PrimeThyme » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:54 pm

Absolutely zero interest in DSJ. Seriously, guys, he averaged 5 ppg for the Knicks this year and shot under 40% (34 fg%) from the field for the 2nd time in 4 seasons. He also had a -6.1 BPM in those same minutes this year bringing his average to -2.7 for his career.

The only semblance of value he has left is from him being a top 10 draft pick (and projected top 5 pick at one point), but, in hindsight, when you go back and look at his college career, stats, and remember the excuses that everyone made for him coming out of NC State, you start to realize that he may have never been a good basketball player.

Flashy? Yes. Good? Very debatable. Certainly not since coming to the league.
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Re: Dennis Smith?? 

Post#32 » by drsd » Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:08 pm

PrimeThyme wrote:Absolutely zero interest in DSJ.


Zero?

All comments here are about Smith as a back-up PG. If we accept that he has a better contract than what it would take to resign Augustin, then this is a no-brainer trade for me. (If the Magic could somehow dump Aminu in this, even better).


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Re: Dennis Smith?? 

Post#33 » by Xatticus » Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:45 pm

drsd wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:Absolutely zero interest in DSJ.


Zero?

All comments here are about Smith as a back-up PG. If we accept that he has a better contract than what it would take to resign Augustin, then this is a no-brainer trade for me. (If the Magic could somehow dump Aminu in this, even better).


..


Zero.

He had a -17.1 netrtg in 537 minutes this year. That’s obscene. You can’t simply blame the roster for that when he was far worse than anybody else on the roster. Is he completely broken? I don’t know. Bamba had an atrocious netrtg last year, but he bounced back this year. The issue with Smith is that he is 23 years old now and there is no evidence to suggest that he is anything better than awful. He is also on an inflated rookie-scale deal because he was a lottery pick. He is negative value and the upside is fantastical at this point. We’d be far better off buying a second-round pick this year and taking a PG. We should be taking a PG somewhere in this draft regardless. It’s stacked with point guards. Bringing back Augustin is only a short-term solution as he is 33 years old.
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Re: Dennis Smith?? 

Post#34 » by drsd » Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:06 pm

Xatticus wrote:Zero.

He had a -17.1 netrtg in 537 minutes this year. That’s obscene. You can’t simply blame the roster for that when he was far worse than anybody else on the roster. Is he completely broken? I don’t know. Bamba had an atrocious netrtg last year, but he bounced back this year. The issue with Smith is that he is 23 years old now and there is no evidence to suggest that he is anything better than awful. He is also on an inflated rookie-scale deal because he was a lottery pick. He is negative value and the upside is fantastical at this point. We’d be far better off buying a second-round pick this year and taking a PG. We should be taking a PG somewhere in this draft regardless. It’s stacked with point guards. Bringing back Augustin is only a short-term solution as he is 33 years old.



I guess my hope is that the re-up Carter-Williams on a two-year ~6M deal. And go for RJ Hampton at #15. That resolves the PG depth chart with Hampton as the 3rd stringer.

p.s. I'd be happy with either Tyrese Haliburton or Tyrell Terry as the 3rd stringer as well.


EDIT: Aaron Nesmith is starting to slide on mock boards. If he is outright available;lable at #15, then there is no way Orlando should trade up to #8 to swallow Smith.


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Re: Dennis Smith?? 

Post#35 » by Skybox » Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:35 pm

Kinda depends, IMO, who they draft...I like MCW as a 3rd string PG/utility guy but I'm hoping they draft a guy that can play an aggressive lead guard role with the second unit. I could accept DSJ for next to nothing or part of a bigger deal to move up if we draft a wing that can't really play point. Either way, I don't want DJ back although I appreciate his contribution.
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Re: Dennis Smith?? 

Post#36 » by Driguez » Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:36 am

Knightro wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:Are you saying you would trade AG for Randle just to move up 7 spots in this class?

Pass for me.

They can have Aminu or Birch or 2nd rounder. Therefore ... I don’t see a deal they would accept.


If Killian Hayes is available at 8 and you really like him that much, then sacrificing Gordon to get him really isn’t a big deal when you look at from a wider perspective.

Essentially you’d be giving up 2 years of Gordon for at least 5 of Hayes and probably 7 or 8 or if he’s good because almost every good player signs an extension off their rookie deal with the team that drafted them.

If Hayes ends up being an all-star caliber guard, then it really won’t matter if the Magic gave up Gordon to get him, ya know?


I like the way you think :thumbsup:
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Re: Dennis Smith?? 

Post#37 » by Knightro » Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:26 pm

Driguez wrote:I like the way you think :thumbsup:


I have been very much guilty of this before, but there's this weird sense sometimes from fans about not wanting to see their teams "overpay" in a trade.

And I get it. You don't want to be left in a worse position than you were before.

But in the Magic's case... who cares? The Magic are on treadmill of mediocrity with no real path to get off it.

If they take a big swing and it doesn't work, what are they out exactly? They go from mediocre to really bad? So be it. At least that opens up additional options and possibilities to move forward with.
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Re: Dennis Smith?? 

Post#38 » by JBSouthpaw » Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:58 am

Knightro wrote:
Driguez wrote:I like the way you think :thumbsup:


I have been very much guilty of this before, but there's this weird sense sometimes from fans about not wanting to see their teams "overpay" in a trade.

And I get it. You don't want to be left in a worse position than you were before.

But in the Magic's case... who cares? The Magic are on treadmill of mediocrity with no real path to get off it.

If they take a big swing and it doesn't work, what are they out exactly? They go from mediocre to really bad? So be it. At least that opens up additional options and possibilities to move forward with.


I've been beating the one step back two steps forward for a couple years now, there are so many ways this can happen right now. This would be one of them.. There are five east teams that we aren't going to pass this year and maybe even the next. Lets just get younger and try to develop that talent
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Re: Dennis Smith?? 

Post#39 » by drsd » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:50 am

JBSouthpaw wrote:Lets just get younger and try to develop that talent


The Magic is one of the league's youngest teams and looks to bring in two rookies whilst letting Augustin move on.

How young to you want Orlando to be?


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Re: Dennis Smith?? 

Post#40 » by JBSouthpaw » Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:06 pm

drsd wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:Lets just get younger and try to develop that talent


The Magic is one of the league's youngest teams and looks to bring in two rookies whilst letting Augustin move on.

How young to you want Orlando to be?


..


It's more about if we are trading AG or Evan, take back picks or 1st contract players. Not another player equal, just different (Wiggins).
We don't have a shot at the EC champ for 2 years, with Bos, Miami, Tor, Mil, Bkn (also factoring in we don't have J.I. next year). We'd just be spinning our wheels.

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