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2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk

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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#161 » by Def Swami » Thu Nov 5, 2020 7:37 pm

Xatticus wrote:
Def Swami wrote:The league is just as confused as the rest of us. Zach Lowe on the off-season:
The East is kinda good, which means the Orlando Magic can't count on running back this group and coasting to the Brown Participation Ribbon Junior Varsity No. 7/8 Playoff Spot -- which might really just be No. 8 unless one of Milwaukee, Miami, Boston, Toronto, Brooklyn, Philadelphia, and Indiana disappoints.

Per usual, teams who have talked with the Magic have a hard time parsing their intentions. The wager here is they would be fine with Evan Fournier opting into the final year on his contract, and playing things out. If so, they should investigate what they might get for him in a trade.

The leaguewide interest level in Aaron Gordon is murkier. Brooklyn discussed chasing him in prior years, but that is probably moot now. He makes sense in Portland, though NBA Twitter's beloved Gordon-for-CJ McCollum swap has never been discussed in any serious way, sources say. Could Portland pry Gordon away without surrendering McCollum? Does Zach Collins appeal to a team with Nikola Vucevic, Mo Bamba, and Jonathan Isaac? What about Anfernee Simons?

Isaac could miss the season because of a knee injury; does that make Orlando less likely to move Gordon or Vucevic? Does the franchise have the stomach to take a step back?


FWIW, I'd take a deal centered around Anfernee Simons and Aaron Gordon. Simons + Ariza + 17 is still short on salary to match Gordon's, but that's the making of a deal I could get behind.


I'd much rather get Collins back. I'm not sure Bamba would ever see the floor again if Collins is healthy though. I just don't think there is much to Simons.

I like Collins' game. I just don't know where he gets the playing time as constructed.

At 20 years old, where does Simons go in the 2020 draft? Top 10? Perhaps Top 5? I'd probably favor him over someone like LaMelo Ball, but I'm much lower on Ball than most.
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#162 » by zaymon » Thu Nov 5, 2020 7:52 pm

Def Swami wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
Def Swami wrote:The league is just as confused as the rest of us. Zach Lowe on the off-season:


FWIW, I'd take a deal centered around Anfernee Simons and Aaron Gordon. Simons + Ariza + 17 is still short on salary to match Gordon's, but that's the making of a deal I could get behind.


I'd much rather get Collins back. I'm not sure Bamba would ever see the floor again if Collins is healthy though. I just don't think there is much to Simons.

I like Collins' game. I just don't know where he gets the playing time as constructed.

At 20 years old, where does Simons go in the 2020 draft? Top 10? Perhaps Top 5? I'd probably favor him over someone like LaMelo Ball, but I'm much lower on Ball than most.


I would say Simons is looking more like a early to mid second round. I would definetly take Riller, Flynn even Mannion before him. Collins is not bad but he is not Weltmans type of guy. I kind of like his team building philosophy.
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#163 » by Def Swami » Thu Nov 5, 2020 8:42 pm

zaymon wrote:
Def Swami wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
I'd much rather get Collins back. I'm not sure Bamba would ever see the floor again if Collins is healthy though. I just don't think there is much to Simons.

I like Collins' game. I just don't know where he gets the playing time as constructed.

At 20 years old, where does Simons go in the 2020 draft? Top 10? Perhaps Top 5? I'd probably favor him over someone like LaMelo Ball, but I'm much lower on Ball than most.


I would say Simons is looking more like a early to mid second round. I would definetly take Riller, Flynn even Mannion before him. Collins is not bad but he is not Weltmans type of guy. I kind of like his team building philosophy.


Simons is a 6'5" guard with high end athleticism and still 20 years. He had some moments in his short career. His rookie year was better than his sophomore year. He also plays behind two high usage guards in Portland. I think most teams would gamble on his ceiling more than some of those "safer" prospects in the 2nd round. Simons is the kind of young player that I'd poach for cheap. Guys like Riller and Flynn are coming into the league at 23 and 22 years old. Good prospects, but limited athleticism and age are knocks on them that drop them to the late 1st round (in Flynn's case) and 2nd round (Riller's case), fair or unfair.

RJ Hampton is still slated to go mid-1st round. Maybe that's the better comparison to Simons in this draft and perhaps mid-1st round is where his stock would be. I think Simons is probably a better shooter than Hampton, but Hampton might be a better passer. Both are equally athletic guards with size.
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#164 » by zaymon » Thu Nov 5, 2020 9:28 pm

Def Swami wrote:
zaymon wrote:
Def Swami wrote:I like Collins' game. I just don't know where he gets the playing time as constructed.

At 20 years old, where does Simons go in the 2020 draft? Top 10? Perhaps Top 5? I'd probably favor him over someone like LaMelo Ball, but I'm much lower on Ball than most.


I would say Simons is looking more like a early to mid second round. I would definetly take Riller, Flynn even Mannion before him. Collins is not bad but he is not Weltmans type of guy. I kind of like his team building philosophy.


Simons is a 6'5" guard with high end athleticism and still 20 years. He had some moments in his short career. His rookie year was better than his sophomore year. He also plays behind two high usage guards in Portland. I think most teams would gamble on his ceiling more than some of those "safer" prospects in the 2nd round. Simons is the kind of young player that I'd poach for cheap. Guys like Riller and Flynn are coming into the league at 23 and 22 years old. Good prospects, but limited athleticism and age are knocks on them that drop them to the late 1st round (in Flynn's case) and 2nd round (Riller's case), fair or unfair.

RJ Hampton is still slated to go mid-1st round. Maybe that's the better comparison to Simons in this draft and perhaps mid-1st round is where his stock would be. I think Simons is probably a better shooter than Hampton, but Hampton might be a better passer. Both are equally athletic guards with size.

Hard to say, picks are more valueable than players most of the time. We dont really know how good is Hampton becouse he never played in nba setting. After 2 years Simons is not even a rotation level player, its not a good sign. He reminds me of Gordon. Athletic freak but without basketball mind. I dont put much faith in those type of players.
Isnt Simons 6'3 ?
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#165 » by Xatticus » Thu Nov 5, 2020 11:37 pm

Def Swami wrote:
zaymon wrote:
Def Swami wrote:I like Collins' game. I just don't know where he gets the playing time as constructed.

At 20 years old, where does Simons go in the 2020 draft? Top 10? Perhaps Top 5? I'd probably favor him over someone like LaMelo Ball, but I'm much lower on Ball than most.


I would say Simons is looking more like a early to mid second round. I would definetly take Riller, Flynn even Mannion before him. Collins is not bad but he is not Weltmans type of guy. I kind of like his team building philosophy.


Simons is a 6'5" guard with high end athleticism and still 20 years. He had some moments in his short career. His rookie year was better than his sophomore year. He also plays behind two high usage guards in Portland. I think most teams would gamble on his ceiling more than some of those "safer" prospects in the 2nd round. Simons is the kind of young player that I'd poach for cheap. Guys like Riller and Flynn are coming into the league at 23 and 22 years old. Good prospects, but limited athleticism and age are knocks on them that drop them to the late 1st round (in Flynn's case) and 2nd round (Riller's case), fair or unfair.

RJ Hampton is still slated to go mid-1st round. Maybe that's the better comparison to Simons in this draft and perhaps mid-1st round is where his stock would be. I think Simons is probably a better shooter than Hampton, but Hampton might be a better passer. Both are equally athletic guards with size.


He might be those things, but Portland has been terrible when he is on the floor. I'd honestly rather have an early 2nd-round pick this year than Simons. I just don't think he is a good basketball player at this point and I'd rather have Collins, even if the fit isn't as obvious. Collins can share the floor with another big and he doesn't clog the paint. I suspect that they would be very happy to turn Simons into someone that can help them right now. Lillard isn't going to carry on forever and I don't think they can afford to invest too heavily in developmental pieces that hurt them out on the court.
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#166 » by Skin » Fri Nov 6, 2020 6:35 am

https://www.nbaanalysis.net/2020/11/04/this-magic-rockets-trade-breaks-up-the-harden-westbrook-duo/4/

This is an interesting one. AG and Fournier for Westbrook. I'm down. 8-)
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#167 » by Skybox » Fri Nov 6, 2020 10:14 am

Skin wrote:https://www.nbaanalysis.net/2020/11/04/this-magic-rockets-trade-breaks-up-the-harden-westbrook-duo/4/

This is an interesting one. AG and Fournier for Westbrook. I'm down. 8-)


I love Westbrook but, given his deal, take those picks out
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#168 » by Skin » Fri Nov 6, 2020 10:44 am

Skybox wrote:
Skin wrote:https://www.nbaanalysis.net/2020/11/04/this-magic-rockets-trade-breaks-up-the-harden-westbrook-duo/4/

This is an interesting one. AG and Fournier for Westbrook. I'm down. 8-)


I love Westbrook but, given his deal, take those picks out

There were picks involved? Yeah taking them out is a must. That's a crazy notion that we would give up 2 firsts. Look what Miami give up for Butler....

Whiteside, Richardson and a future 1st and the Heat also got Meyers.

Gordon, Fournier and a future heavily protected 1st sounds about right.
Fultz, _____, Okeke, Isaac, Bamba. LET'S GO!
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#169 » by Magicfanatic82 » Fri Nov 6, 2020 12:50 pm

Skin wrote:https://www.nbaanalysis.net/2020/11/04/this-magic-rockets-trade-breaks-up-the-harden-westbrook-duo/4/

This is an interesting one. AG and Fournier for Westbrook. I'm down. 8-)

Dont think Westbrook is what we need. Fultz is so much cheaper. He also would hurt our shooting even more.
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#170 » by jonbob17 » Fri Nov 6, 2020 1:35 pm

They would have to give us at least a pick just to move westbrook. We definitely are not giving up AG and picks.
No way Westbrook comes to Orlando. It would make one of the worst constructed rosters in the league a worse composition.

What is the starting line up, 2 point guards that can't shoot (at all), 2 Power forwards, and a center.
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#171 » by Magic_Johnny12 » Fri Nov 6, 2020 6:37 pm

Random thought - who currently with everything considered has more trade value?

Aaron Gordon or Caris LeVert?

Options

They both have equal value
Gordon has higher value by a smidge
Gordon has lower value by a smidge

(I dont think we're going to get Aaron Gordon has higher/lower by A LOT responses)
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#172 » by Bensational » Fri Nov 6, 2020 7:07 pm

Depends what you're looking for. If you want a player to shoulder more of the scoring load for your team, you probably value Levert. If you have a star or two already, you probably value Gordon as an all-rounder glue guy.
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#173 » by Skybox » Fri Nov 6, 2020 7:18 pm

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:Random thought - who currently with everything considered has more trade value?

Aaron Gordon or Caris LeVert?

Options

They both have equal value
Gordon has higher value by a smidge
Gordon has lower value by a smidge

(I dont think we're going to get Aaron Gordon has higher/lower by A LOT responses)


I think they're pretty equal all-around but Levert would be better for US. Honestly, I think AG would be great for BRK.
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#174 » by yoyojw17 » Fri Nov 6, 2020 8:25 pm

Skybox wrote:
Magic_Johnny12 wrote:Random thought - who currently with everything considered has more trade value?

Aaron Gordon or Caris LeVert?

Options

They both have equal value
Gordon has higher value by a smidge
Gordon has lower value by a smidge

(I dont think we're going to get Aaron Gordon has higher/lower by A LOT responses)


I think they're pretty equal all-around but Levert would be better for US. Honestly, I think AG would be great for BRK.

I think they both would benefit greatly by a swap. Levert needs the room to grow more as he's starting hit that offensive next gear.... while AG would be amazing as a 100% 3 rd or 4th option on a Nets team as he will stick to what he's best at and that would allow him to flourish even more. and both players might not attain those trajectories if they stay where they are. So a swap of those two players could be beneficial for both teams and both players.
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#175 » by Bensational » Fri Nov 6, 2020 8:41 pm

If you're trading for Westbrook then you need to move Fultz, because there's no point even trying to balance that backcourt with the two of them. May as well make him part of the trade so he comprises the bulk of the returning value then, as well.

Fultz + Ross + Aminu for Westbrook

Vuc/Bamba/Birch
Gordon/Clark/(Isaac)
Ennis/Okeke
Fournier/Iwundu/MCW
Westbrook/(Lewis Jr?)

I know it's not a contender, but that team would be competitive and probably fun to watch. Maybe see if another trade can be made to get up and grab Haliburton. A Westbrook/Haliburton backcourt could probably compliment each other well.

At least you know Westbrook is gonna teach the team how to have some fire and heart. If he can embed that in the youth over a couple of seasons, I'll take that and hope it carries through to improved development.
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#176 » by Skybox » Fri Nov 6, 2020 8:52 pm

Bensational wrote:If you're trading for Westbrook then you need to move Fultz, because there's no point even trying to balance that backcourt with the two of them. May as well make him part of the trade so he comprises the bulk of the returning value then, as well.

Fultz + Ross + Aminu for Westbrook

Vuc/Bamba/Birch
Gordon/Clark/(Isaac)
Ennis/Okeke
Fournier/Iwundu/MCW
Westbrook/(Lewis Jr?)

I know it's not a contender, but that team would be competitive and probably fun to watch. Maybe see if another trade can be made to get up and grab Haliburton. A Westbrook/Haliburton backcourt could probably compliment each other well.

At least you know Westbrook is gonna teach the team how to have some fire and heart. If he can embed that in the youth over a couple of seasons, I'll take that and hope it carries through to improved development.


Cant argue with the logic but perhaps Fultz would feed off the "Westbeast effect" the way Oladipo did and turn into a younger firebreathing version of him.
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#177 » by Bensational » Fri Nov 6, 2020 9:55 pm

Skybox wrote:
Bensational wrote:If you're trading for Westbrook then you need to move Fultz, because there's no point even trying to balance that backcourt with the two of them. May as well make him part of the trade so he comprises the bulk of the returning value then, as well.

Fultz + Ross + Aminu for Westbrook

Vuc/Bamba/Birch
Gordon/Clark/(Isaac)
Ennis/Okeke
Fournier/Iwundu/MCW
Westbrook/(Lewis Jr?)

I know it's not a contender, but that team would be competitive and probably fun to watch. Maybe see if another trade can be made to get up and grab Haliburton. A Westbrook/Haliburton backcourt could probably compliment each other well.

At least you know Westbrook is gonna teach the team how to have some fire and heart. If he can embed that in the youth over a couple of seasons, I'll take that and hope it carries through to improved development.


Cant argue with the logic but perhaps Fultz would feed off the "Westbeast effect" the way Oladipo did and turn into a younger firebreathing version of him.


Maybe. But their games just can't coexist in the same backcourt unless Fultz becomes a much better 3pt shooter. Rather than pressing that issue, might as well move him and hope to draft the player who will soak up the "Westbeast effect", like a Haliburton/Hayes/Maxey or something.

I don't love the way Westbrook plays, but he plays hard and plays to win. I'll take that and hope his offensive style softens a bit in his later years, especially if he's surrounded by a good passing team.
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#178 » by Max Power » Fri Nov 6, 2020 10:10 pm

A trade for Westbrook is an interesting proposition. One we get a superstar here who can score and distribute with the best of them. We’d arguably have the exact player our franchise has been missing for years, thee guy in the entire NBA with the ultimate fire in his gut. Westbrook and Vuc could be lethal offensively when both are on. It’s definitely the type of move I’d be up for just for ridding us of Fournier. Not to mention Russell’s one of my favs league wide to watch.

I’d drop that second draft pick for sure. The trade scenario is a bit heavily one sided. Another issue is it’s not a championship maneuver, because we wouldn’t have enough around Westbrook and Vuc. I’d say we’d end up 5th or 6th tops if everything went perfect.
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#179 » by Xatticus » Fri Nov 6, 2020 11:54 pm

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:Random thought - who currently with everything considered has more trade value?

Aaron Gordon or Caris LeVert?

Options

They both have equal value
Gordon has higher value by a smidge
Gordon has lower value by a smidge

(I dont think we're going to get Aaron Gordon has higher/lower by A LOT responses)


Gordon. I'd want real value attached if we were to make that swap. LeVert isn't really appealing to me at all. He is a high-usage, low-efficiency guy. He might be a slight positive at the offensive end, but probably not. We'd be doing Brooklyn a favor.
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#180 » by jonbob17 » Sat Nov 7, 2020 3:08 am

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:Random thought - who currently with everything considered has more trade value?

Aaron Gordon or Caris LeVert?

Options

They both have equal value
Gordon has higher value by a smidge
Gordon has lower value by a smidge

(I dont think we're going to get Aaron Gordon has higher/lower by A LOT responses)


I'd probably say Gordon has lower value around the league based on performance, but I am not sure how much of a risk Levert's injury history is viewed. Personally I would be more scared of his injuries than Isaac's. Going back to college he has missed at least 25% of the season in 5 of the last 6 seasons.

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