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2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk

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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#181 » by pepe1991 » Sat Nov 7, 2020 7:23 am

Gordon has much lover value than fans think.

There was not a single season in his career where his offense touched league's efficiency, he still rides his +20% usage rate, his BPM for career is 0,0 and his RPM last year was in range with Mike Muscala mainly because of terrible offensive numbers.
There are far more cheapter, lower usage defenders than him like Covington, OG Anunoby, Royse O'neal, Tucker or Roberson.

JaMychal Green, Crowder, Jerami Grant, Justin Holiday, Marcus Smart are all FAs that teams can add that fit that Gordon role and teams don't have to give up anything to get them.
OFC assuming they have cap space.

Is Lavert better? I think they are viewed as same value as players, one is more offensiv oriented, other teams, i assume, view as guy they can mold into more defensive minded player ( basically playing Grant type of role)

Nobody is looking at Gordon like some fans here did for years " omg look at this future Kawhi that will take stepback long 2s in playoffs", the viewing him as " he'll spend on game on Jimmy Butler and maybe he will be able to make 2 threes from corner that night and get us 10 rebounds".
Tbh i'm not sure Gordon's ego will accept that role, but that's story for another day.
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#182 » by basketballRob » Sat Nov 7, 2020 10:21 am

I think AG has the value of a young Iguadola. If you put him on a team with DLo and Towns could put them in the playoffs.

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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#183 » by p0peye » Sat Nov 7, 2020 11:05 am

basketballRob wrote:I think AG has the value of a young Iguadola. If you put him on a team with DLo and Towns could put them in the playoffs.

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Young Iggy had immense potential and very high trade value. We're talking 20/5/5 player with elite defense at 24 years of age.
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#184 » by basketballRob » Sat Nov 7, 2020 11:57 am

p0peye wrote:
basketballRob wrote:I think AG has the value of a young Iguadola. If you put him on a team with DLo and Towns could put them in the playoffs.

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Young Iggy had immense potential and very high trade value. We're talking 20/5/5 player with elite defense at 24 years of age.
He was the focal part of that team and he played 40 mpg. Gordon's stats are comparable

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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#185 » by p0peye » Sat Nov 7, 2020 12:56 pm

basketballRob wrote:
p0peye wrote:
basketballRob wrote:I think AG has the value of a young Iguadola. If you put him on a team with DLo and Towns could put them in the playoffs.

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Young Iggy had immense potential and very high trade value. We're talking 20/5/5 player with elite defense at 24 years of age.
He was the focal part of that team and he played 40 mpg. Gordon's stats are comparable

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https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Aaron+Gordon&player_id1_select=Aaron+Gordon&player_id1=gordoaa01&idx=bbr__players&p1yrfrom=2020&player_id2_hint=Andre+Iguodala&player_id2_select=Andre+Iguodala&player_id2=iguodan01&idx=bbr__players&p2yrfrom=2008

If you want to look at it from stats perspective - Iggy was superior and factual impact player across the board: win shares, defensive win shares, dbpm, vorp, shooting, TS%.

As a talent Iguodala was very highly rated and certainly not middling talent as Aaron unfortunately is despite few raw numbers that falsely paints him better than he actually is.
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#186 » by basketballRob » Sat Nov 7, 2020 2:32 pm

p0peye wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
p0peye wrote:
Young Iggy had immense potential and very high trade value. We're talking 20/5/5 player with elite defense at 24 years of age.
He was the focal part of that team and he played 40 mpg. Gordon's stats are comparable

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https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Aaron+Gordon&player_id1_select=Aaron+Gordon&player_id1=gordoaa01&idx=bbr__players&p1yrfrom=2020&player_id2_hint=Andre+Iguodala&player_id2_select=Andre+Iguodala&player_id2=iguodan01&idx=bbr__players&p2yrfrom=2008

If you want to look at it from stats perspective - Iggy was superior and factual impact player across the board: win shares, defensive win shares, dbpm, vorp, shooting, TS%.

As a talent Iguodala was very highly rated and certainly not middling talent as Aaron unfortunately is despite few raw numbers that falsely paints him better than he actually is.
I didn't dig that deep into their stats. I still think AG is valuable to a team with stars much like Iguadola was with Golden State. I like AG but I think it's 80% that he leaves after this contract.

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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#187 » by basketballRob » Sat Nov 7, 2020 3:38 pm

Read on Twitter
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Minnesota makes too much sense for a trade partner. One they need a wing defender, two they have James Johnson's expiring contract. If they'd give up Cluver and the 17, I'd do it.

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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#188 » by yoyojw17 » Sat Nov 7, 2020 3:52 pm

basketballRob wrote:
p0peye wrote:
basketballRob wrote:He was the focal part of that team and he played 40 mpg. Gordon's stats are comparable

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https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Aaron+Gordon&player_id1_select=Aaron+Gordon&player_id1=gordoaa01&idx=bbr__players&p1yrfrom=2020&player_id2_hint=Andre+Iguodala&player_id2_select=Andre+Iguodala&player_id2=iguodan01&idx=bbr__players&p2yrfrom=2008

If you want to look at it from stats perspective - Iggy was superior and factual impact player across the board: win shares, defensive win shares, dbpm, vorp, shooting, TS%.

As a talent Iguodala was very highly rated and certainly not middling talent as Aaron unfortunately is despite few raw numbers that falsely paints him better than he actually is.
I didn't dig that deep into their stats. I still think AG is valuable to a team with stars much like Iguadola was with Golden State. I like AG but I think it's 80% that he leaves after this contract.

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It comes down to mentality with AG. When he plays within himself and doesn't try to be the man... he could very well become every good bit of whatever I would want him to be. An excellent jack of all trades that plays great defense. The day he says... i'ma out run everyone on the court... crash the glass like no ones business... cut to the basket with a purpose... and stop taking mid range and 3 pointers off the dribble.... we could see what I would think would be the most successful ag. and that would still lead to him having amazing numbers. 16-19 pnt, 4-6 ast, and 7-10 reb - with 2 Stocks and great percentages are within his grasp at that point. so yes... he still has tremendous value.

same thing i used to say about dwight. he got too infatuated with taking jumpers and being the next "Dream" that he didn't realize that he could have had the same better statistics by first being the best that he could be with his God given abilities.

And to many on here... they might only want to go by face value and not think about the potential that AG would have in the right situation where is undoubtedly the 3rd or 4th option. In that case... you will see his true value.
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#189 » by pepe1991 » Sat Nov 7, 2020 4:14 pm

Igoudala was best player on average team.
Gordon is at very best, second best player on average team.

Given where NBA went, both Isaac and Evan are more valuable given what their roles are than Gordon.

Igoudala will probably one day end up being in basketball Hall of Fame due 3 rings, 1 finals MVP, allstar selection and 2 times all nba defensive teams.

And what separates them is ego and leadership. All beat writers pointed out that Igoudala departure will take a big hit in lockeroom for Warriors due his leadership. Klay being casual, Curry being playful and Green having ugly temper, it's not hard to see how Igoudala was Kerr's exstended hand on the floor.

You will never hear anything about Gordon and his leadership abiliy, as guy was high on live brodcast on national tv....
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#190 » by Skybox » Sat Nov 7, 2020 4:15 pm

yoyojw17 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
p0peye wrote:
https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Aaron+Gordon&player_id1_select=Aaron+Gordon&player_id1=gordoaa01&idx=bbr__players&p1yrfrom=2020&player_id2_hint=Andre+Iguodala&player_id2_select=Andre+Iguodala&player_id2=iguodan01&idx=bbr__players&p2yrfrom=2008

If you want to look at it from stats perspective - Iggy was superior and factual impact player across the board: win shares, defensive win shares, dbpm, vorp, shooting, TS%.

As a talent Iguodala was very highly rated and certainly not middling talent as Aaron unfortunately is despite few raw numbers that falsely paints him better than he actually is.
I didn't dig that deep into their stats. I still think AG is valuable to a team with stars much like Iguadola was with Golden State. I like AG but I think it's 80% that he leaves after this contract.

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It comes down to mentality with AG. When he plays within himself and doesn't try to be the man... he could very well become every good bit of whatever I would want him to be. An excellent jack of all trades that plays great defense. The day he says... i'ma out run everyone on the court... crash the glass like no ones business... cut to the basket with a purpose... and stop taking mid range and 3 pointers off the dribble.... we could see what I would think would be the most successful ag. and that would still lead to him having amazing numbers. 16-19 pnt, 4-6 ast, and 7-10 reb - with 2 Stocks and great percentages are within his grasp at that point. so yes... he still has tremendous value.

same thing i used to say about dwight. he got too infatuated with taking jumpers and being the next "Dream" that he didn't realize that he could have had the same better statistics by first being the best that he could be with his God given abilities.

And to many on here... they might only want to go by face value and not think about the potential that AG would have in the right situation where is undoubtedly the 3rd or 4th option. In that case... you will see his true value.


Exactly...I've been saying AG should be modeling Rodman just like Dwight should have been Bill Russell.
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#191 » by yoyojw17 » Sat Nov 7, 2020 5:05 pm

Skybox wrote:
yoyojw17 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:I didn't dig that deep into their stats. I still think AG is valuable to a team with stars much like Iguadola was with Golden State. I like AG but I think it's 80% that he leaves after this contract.

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It comes down to mentality with AG. When he plays within himself and doesn't try to be the man... he could very well become every good bit of whatever I would want him to be. An excellent jack of all trades that plays great defense. The day he says... i'ma out run everyone on the court... crash the glass like no ones business... cut to the basket with a purpose... and stop taking mid range and 3 pointers off the dribble.... we could see what I would think would be the most successful ag. and that would still lead to him having amazing numbers. 16-19 pnt, 4-6 ast, and 7-10 reb - with 2 Stocks and great percentages are within his grasp at that point. so yes... he still has tremendous value.

same thing i used to say about dwight. he got too infatuated with taking jumpers and being the next "Dream" that he didn't realize that he could have had the same better statistics by first being the best that he could be with his God given abilities.

And to many on here... they might only want to go by face value and not think about the potential that AG would have in the right situation where is undoubtedly the 3rd or 4th option. In that case... you will see his true value.


Exactly...I've been saying AG should be modeling Rodman just like Dwight should have been Bill Russell.

With his combination of size, athleticism and speed ... i see no reason why AG couldn't get 8-12 pnts on a nightly basis by just outworking the other teams power forward. Stop waiting at half court for an outlet pass ... just to then slow down... pumping your hands to tell the team settle down.

Instead outrun the opposing bigman with your superior speed and get to the opposite side of the court and making yourself available for the easy two. Two points is two point no matter how you look at it. only difference is... how effectively you can get it. AG should be part of the the top 5% in this league in transition alone.. and with no research i can guarantee he isn't lol

cut to the basket when someone is not looking.... Vuc is a great passer for a bigman... and the more you do it ... the more he will be looking for you. It just pains me to see that the majority of AG's shots came from the positions that he is the least efficient at... stick to the transition, rim runs, cuts, putbacks and be set up for the open 3pointer. then let your game evolve from there.

We put him in a position where we needed him to grow into a scorer... handed him keys... and now we don't know how to take em back and reel him back to reality.

Some people aren't as sold on fultz as i am... but i believe his next jump is going to be huge for the team... even if no major changes are made. I expect them to make him into a much higher usage player... and i think these higher did well in easing him in for the first year. His higher usage will allow evan and ag to be set up... more than being the setter uppers... which i believe was more of a detriment to our team than anything else. Calling it now. Fultz for team MIP next year. hahaha. but... we will see.
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#192 » by Xatticus » Sat Nov 7, 2020 5:11 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Gordon has much lover value than fans think.

There was not a single season in his career where his offense touched league's efficiency, he still rides his +20% usage rate, his BPM for career is 0,0 and his RPM last year was in range with Mike Muscala mainly because of terrible offensive numbers.
There are far more cheapter, lower usage defenders than him like Covington, OG Anunoby, Royse O'neal, Tucker or Roberson.

JaMychal Green, Crowder, Jerami Grant, Justin Holiday, Marcus Smart are all FAs that teams can add that fit that Gordon role and teams don't have to give up anything to get them.
OFC assuming they have cap space.

Is Lavert better? I think they are viewed as same value as players, one is more offensiv oriented, other teams, i assume, view as guy they can mold into more defensive minded player ( basically playing Grant type of role)

Nobody is looking at Gordon like some fans here did for years " omg look at this future Kawhi that will take stepback long 2s in playoffs", the viewing him as " he'll spend on game on Jimmy Butler and maybe he will be able to make 2 threes from corner that night and get us 10 rebounds".
Tbh i'm not sure Gordon's ego will accept that role, but that's story for another day.


Which fans? You can't be referring to all of the fans from other boards that come around here inquiring about Gordon?

I'm not giving up our most valuable trade asset for a marginal return simply because some choose to scapegoat him for the failures of this organization.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/29746442/next-moves-orlando-magic-building-markelle-fultz-aaron-gordon-nikola-vucevic

Also, an extension would take him off the trade market for six months, and Gordon represents the Magic's most valuable trade asset -- another reason an extension is unlikely this offseason.


Lets be frank here, people want to move Gordon because he is the only guy on our roster that could net something decent in return now that Isaac is hurt. He is one of the best athletes in the NBA and has demonstrated his value on the court even though he has been woefully mismanaged by this organization.

As for Gordon's willingness to accept his role... I don't recall Gordon throwing a tantrum when we drafted Isaac or when we signed Aminu. We've never constructed an offense around Gordon. We scarcely ever runs plays designed to get him shots. We should've spent the last five years working on Gordon's ability as a pick-and-roll ball handler and screener, but we've had too many other guys on the roster that are useless if they aren't put in those roles, so he has only ever been used as a role player in a slow-paced offense with **** ball movement. Just about every team in the league believes he would look better on their roster.

The fact is, Gordon can provide value playing alongside anyone in the NBA. The same isn't true of LeVert or Vucevic. You have to be completely bereft of other offensive options to believe that giving 25%+ usage to these guys is a good idea and you aren't going to have them out there for what they bring at the defensive end. Even then, you are guaranteeing that you will not be a good offensive team. If you chop their usage in half, aren't you just stuck with a crappy role player on a big contract?
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#193 » by j-ragg » Sat Nov 7, 2020 5:14 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Given where NBA went, both Isaac and Evan are more valuable given what their roles are than Gordon.

Come on.

Evan just had the best year of his career where he shot with elite efficiency and no one wants him. Majority of his career his team has been better with him off the court. Bobby Marks projects him to be a 12-14 million dollar player if he opts out. He is a 1 way, low IQ guard who should play at forward because his athleticism is similar to Clifford's.

Teams like GSW will give value to players like Vucevic and Gordon. I sincerely think no one really wants Fournier unless he gets bought out and can be brought in at the deadline for the minimum (although he's 28 or so, doubt that happens for a long time).


Isaac of course I agree is a superior prospect to Gordon and will be a better player if he can stay 70% healthy.
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#194 » by pepe1991 » Sat Nov 7, 2020 9:16 pm

j-ragg wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Given where NBA went, both Isaac and Evan are more valuable given what their roles are than Gordon.

Come on.

Evan just had the best year of his career where he shot with elite efficiency and no one wants him. Majority of his career his team has been better with him off the court. Bobby Marks projects him to be a 12-14 million dollar player if he opts out. He is a 1 way, low IQ guard who should play at forward because his athleticism is similar to Clifford's.

Teams like GSW will give value to players like Vucevic and Gordon. I sincerely think no one really wants Fournier unless he gets bought out and can be brought in at the deadline for the minimum (although he's 28 or so, doubt that happens for a long time).


Isaac of course I agree is a superior prospect to Gordon and will be a better player if he can stay 70% healthy.


Nobody wants Evan according to? Nobody wants to be FA in 2020 because nobody has money. That's why he, much like anybody else won't drop player's option.

Nobody offered Gordon anything but Orlando when he was RFA.
Only official offer for Gordon was- Oubre swap. That's craptastic trade for Magic.

I highly doubt that Magic were in position where they declined their top 10 pick- offers for Gordon.

I said it few days back, i think teams that are looking for defenders have much cheaper alternatives than Gordon ( and Evan) are for similar value.
Gordon on good or great team is 3 and D guy, but he can't shoot well enough to even fit that role. Robert Covington playing that role is payed $11M.
PJ Tucker is payed $9M
Andre Roberson $10M.
Jae Crowder makes $7,8M
Royce Oneal makes $9M with new deal

Gordon on elite team won't get any bigger role than any of them. At best he will be playing Jeremy Grant role on Nuggets. 4th option on offense if 3rd option is hurt. He is way too expensive for most elite teams to be payed $18M for 4th option.

Teams that might have interest in Gordon like Warriors or Nets are already working under strict salary restrictions, both teams in luxury tax and it's questionable what execlly Gordon brings when he is paired with guys like Draymoond Green or Jarret Allen who are complete spacing killers. On top of that is it really worth to giving pick and some salary dump just to add career 12,8ppg, 53% TS guy ? Not really.


Now on flip side what type of deal makes Magic happy? Warriors offer 2# pick with Edwards gone and trade exception so Magic trade Gordon for cap space and Lamelo Ball? Is that really worth it?
Nets offer Levert , does that sound exiting to accept?

Everybody can be traded if there is interest in seller to move player under any condition, but with most of Magic guys that's not a case ,and it's not case for specific reason. This team still lacks cornerstone to build team around so they just exit in time and space without purpose.

And under any condition Magic can't accept Wiggins + pick for Gordon and Vuc trade. It will be biggest disaster in team's history. This draft is type of draft where nobody projected to be lottery pick would not be lottery pick in 2018 draft and half of them would not even be first round selections. Second round pick only sounds good until you see draft board.
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#195 » by pepe1991 » Sat Nov 7, 2020 9:26 pm

Xatticus wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Gordon has much lover value than fans think.

There was not a single season in his career where his offense touched league's efficiency, he still rides his +20% usage rate, his BPM for career is 0,0 and his RPM last year was in range with Mike Muscala mainly because of terrible offensive numbers.
There are far more cheapter, lower usage defenders than him like Covington, OG Anunoby, Royse O'neal, Tucker or Roberson.

JaMychal Green, Crowder, Jerami Grant, Justin Holiday, Marcus Smart are all FAs that teams can add that fit that Gordon role and teams don't have to give up anything to get them.
OFC assuming they have cap space.

Is Lavert better? I think they are viewed as same value as players, one is more offensiv oriented, other teams, i assume, view as guy they can mold into more defensive minded player ( basically playing Grant type of role)

Nobody is looking at Gordon like some fans here did for years " omg look at this future Kawhi that will take stepback long 2s in playoffs", the viewing him as " he'll spend on game on Jimmy Butler and maybe he will be able to make 2 threes from corner that night and get us 10 rebounds".
Tbh i'm not sure Gordon's ego will accept that role, but that's story for another day.


Which fans? You can't be referring to all of the fans from other boards that come around here inquiring about Gordon?

I'm not giving up our most valuable trade asset for a marginal return simply because some choose to scapegoat him for the failures of this organization.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/29746442/next-moves-orlando-magic-building-markelle-fultz-aaron-gordon-nikola-vucevic

Also, an extension would take him off the trade market for six months, and Gordon represents the Magic's most valuable trade asset -- another reason an extension is unlikely this offseason.


Lets be frank here, people want to move Gordon because he is the only guy on our roster that could net something decent in return now that Isaac is hurt. He is one of the best athletes in the NBA and has demonstrated his value on the court even though he has been woefully mismanaged by this organization.

As for Gordon's willingness to accept his role... I don't recall Gordon throwing a tantrum when we drafted Isaac or when we signed Aminu. We've never constructed an offense around Gordon. We scarcely ever runs plays designed to get him shots. We should've spent the last five years working on Gordon's ability as a pick-and-roll ball handler and screener, but we've had too many other guys on the roster that are useless if they aren't put in those roles, so he has only ever been used as a role player in a slow-paced offense with **** ball movement. Just about every team in the league believes he would look better on their roster.

The fact is, Gordon can provide value playing alongside anyone in the NBA. The same isn't true of LeVert or Vucevic. You have to be completely bereft of other offensive options to believe that giving 25%+ usage to these guys is a good idea and you aren't going to have them out there for what they bring at the defensive end. Even then, you are guaranteeing that you will not be a good offensive team. If you chop their usage in half, aren't you just stuck with a crappy role player on a big contract?


Given everything Gordon showed in nba, his value as player is smilar to whatever you value in Morris twins
Same career PPG, same TS%, similar rebounding numbers, similar BPM,similar win share, similar size, similar FT shooting...

And what both twins have in common is that they are bench players on contenders.
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#196 » by Knightro » Sat Nov 7, 2020 11:39 pm

pepe1991 wrote:And under any condition Magic can't accept Wiggins + pick for Gordon and Vuc trade. It will be biggest disaster in team's history. This draft is type of draft where nobody projected to be lottery pick would not be lottery pick in 2018 draft and half of them would not even be first round selections. Second round pick only sounds good until you see draft board.


This is so over the top it's almost funny.

The Magic have a 35-40 win team with no tangible path to improve with the current pieces they have in place.

They can stubbornly stay the course and grind out one or two more 7-8 seeds if that's what they want to do, but that's all they can do with this roster.

Regardless of what you feel about tanking, and I know you're anti-tanking, any move that makes the Magic worse in the short-term almost certainly at least provides them an opportunity to be acquire better talent in the long-term.
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#197 » by Magicfanatic82 » Sat Nov 7, 2020 11:43 pm

https://tradenba.com/trades/keGbsbK9N
Orl trades Gordon, Vucevic
Orl gets #6, #30, Kanter, Dedmon

Bos trades Hayward, #30
Bos gets Gordon, Capella

Atl trades #6, Capella, Dedmon
Atl gets Vucevic, Gordon

Magic take giant step to rebuild with 6, 15, 30
Save 25 mil now and 18 more expires next year.
Develope 6, 15 okeke stash 30/45 or trade
Most important with 1 bad year we get Isaac back, a high pick in a top heavy draft class and major flexibility for 2021.

Bos adds size and balances team

Atlanta positions itself for a playoff push

Roster
Fultz Fournier(exp) Ennis(exp) Aminu Bamba
Hayes/Hali* Ross Bey/Nesmith* Okeke Birch
Cut Kanter. Dedmon(exp) Isaac(IR)
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#198 » by pepe1991 » Sun Nov 8, 2020 8:09 am

Knightro wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:And under any condition Magic can't accept Wiggins + pick for Gordon and Vuc trade. It will be biggest disaster in team's history. This draft is type of draft where nobody projected to be lottery pick would not be lottery pick in 2018 draft and half of them would not even be first round selections. Second round pick only sounds good until you see draft board.


This is so over the top it's almost funny.

The Magic have a 35-40 win team with no tangible path to improve with the current pieces they have in place.

They can stubbornly stay the course and grind out one or two more 7-8 seeds if that's what they want to do, but that's all they can do with this roster.

Regardless of what you feel about tanking, and I know you're anti-tanking, any move that makes the Magic worse in the short-term almost certainly at least provides them an opportunity to be acquire better talent in the long-term.


Adding worst contract in basketball, and salary of second overall pick that stars on base of $7,6M without any clear idea who to pick is horrific.
Building team around Fultz ( can't shoot), Wiggins ( can't play basketball), Isaac ( can't stay on the floor ) , Bamba ( has stamina of WWII vet ), some Lamelo Ball/Okongwu/Toppin/Hayes/Haliburton is definition of team without present nor future.

Adding such a dead cup such as Wiggins is, in exchange for pretty much only above average player on roster, and losing Gordon ,who isn't great, but is far away from terrible simply makes no sense whatsoever.
To add who execlly? I ask this question for months and every single person avoids to repeat with clear answer.

So i ask you, Knightro, if Magic make that trade, you tell me who "saves" this team from 2020 draft pick, epsecially if Edwards is gone from table?
And don't even start about imaginary "superstar" from 2021 draft who is yet to step foot at college court. Nassir Little went from Kawhi Leonard pre-college comparisons to being Mario Hezonja's backup in NBA in 12 months. Draft net before season gave him at least 8/10 grade in 6 major categories they rank players ( 12 categories total). Year later you can probably buy him off for top 20 protected pick and stash of cash. So no, i don't wanna hear about tanking for some 18 years old "new Ben Simmons" ( who just happends to be 3 inches shorter and 40 pounds lighter) or any of it. Straight answer. Who has at 2# slot chance to transform this team? If answer is nobody than trade for 3 years of missery called Wiggins - simply makes no sense.

Spoiler:
And for love of God don't say Hayes, guy has athletics of Andre Miller year before he retired. Guy couldn't craete space nor separation for his shots IN GERMANY ! Where Derick Williams looks like second comming of Lebron and Jordan combined in one player
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#199 » by Skybox » Sun Nov 8, 2020 3:11 pm

I proposed elsewhere...

ORL sends Gordon and Fournier
BOS sends Gordon Hayward
...some BOS fans approved but wanted us to take back more money in Poirier(2.6) or Kanter (5m IF he opts in). I countered that they should throw in pick #30 if we did take back one of those guys we don't need or want.

I know that Hayward isn't 23 and has had injuries and makes way too much money. He's a legit star buried on a deep young team. I love the potential offensive dynamic between Hayward and Vuc. Fultz driving and kicking or finishing. Okeke spotting up, moving the ball, and playing great D (AG with a 3shot and without the highlight reels). Hayward has a few very good years left and, if he's interested in ORL, I'd happily make him the face and voice of our mostly young team. At #15, we target our scoring guard or wing. If we pull the #30 we take a swing at McDaniels or Bane or some other upside freebie or surprisingly still available guy. Hayward, Vuc, and Okeke bring that smart ball-movement "old man" ball. We add shooters and Fultz, Isaac, Bamba, Okeke can all taste some winning while developing.

Vuc/Bamba/whoever
Okeke/Aminu/Clark (ultimately Isaac)
Hayward/Ennis
TRoss/Maxey(Hampton, Bey, Nesmith, Bane?)
Fultz/MCW
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#200 » by j-ragg » Sun Nov 8, 2020 3:45 pm

Skybox wrote:I proposed elsewhere...

ORL sends Gordon and Fournier
BOS sends Gordon Hayward
...some BOS fans approved but wanted us to take back more money in Poirier(2.6) or Kanter (5m IF he opts in). I countered that they should throw in pick #30 if we did take back one of those guys we don't need or want.

I know that Hayward isn't 23 and has had injuries and makes way too much money. He's a legit star buried on a deep young team. I love the potential offensive dynamic between Hayward and Vuc. Fultz driving and kicking or finishing. Okeke spotting up, moving the ball, and playing great D (AG with a 3shot and without the highlight reels). Hayward has a few very good years left and, if he's interested in ORL, I'd happily make him the face and voice of our mostly young team. At #15, we target our scoring guard or wing. If we pull the #30 we take a swing at McDaniels or Bane or some other upside freebie or surprisingly still available guy. Hayward, Vuc, and Okeke bring that smart ball-movement "old man" ball. We add shooters and Fultz, Isaac, Bamba, Okeke can all taste some winning while developing.

Vuc/Bamba/whoever
Okeke/Aminu/Clark (ultimately Isaac)
Hayward/Ennis
TRoss/Maxey(Hampton, Bey, Nesmith, Bane?)
Fultz/MCW

It's not off in value imo, but for a couple reasons I'd decline personally (while I can also understand the FO doing it).

He's 30, almost 31, which doesn't really bother me with his type of game but bothers me more because it feels like he'd just want to go to a good team and get a ring.

His declining FT rate is somewhat alarming. It dipped this year much lower than last year which was his previous career low. Him and Vucevic as the two top options in an offense imo wouldn't improve us from wherever we've been in the bottom 5 the last decade.

His shooting would make it so it wouldn't matter, but to me Hayward is really a 4 these days. Ultimately I'd talk myself into it just like most other trades. It's pretty lateral but at least it's SOMETHING different. If nothing else, it's expiring salary.
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