ImageImageImageImage

Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team"

Moderators: Howard Mass, UCF, ChosenSavior, Knightro, SOUL, Def Swami, UCFJayBird

OrlMagic05
Rookie
Posts: 1,102
And1: 633
Joined: Aug 01, 2014
 

Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#741 » by OrlMagic05 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:26 pm

Howard Mass wrote:
OrlMagic05 wrote:
Howard Mass wrote:
It is essential that Anthony, Okeke and Bamba if he is healthy, get minutes this season.


You’re right it is essential, but we are talking about the Magic..


If things are going the wrong way or they are indeed shown to be stuck, the pressure will be on to play the young guys if they are not already playing.


The pressure has been on since 2013.. all of our rookies with the exception of Oladipo came off the bench and didnt play more than 19mpg. I want to say that Oladipo played less than 30mpg his rookie year as well.
OrlMagic05
Rookie
Posts: 1,102
And1: 633
Joined: Aug 01, 2014
 

Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#742 » by OrlMagic05 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:30 pm

This is the best year for a team to tank. Financial implications are already there due to limited capacity, so why not just go for it. We NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED a star. I think the majority of us are tired of watching Vuc and Evan win against below .500 teams and get destroyed by everyone else.
pepe1991
RealGM
Posts: 12,519
And1: 10,146
Joined: Jan 10, 2016
   

Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#743 » by pepe1991 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:31 pm

OrlMagic05 wrote:
Howard Mass wrote:
OrlMagic05 wrote:
You’re right it is essential, but we are talking about the Magic..


If things are going the wrong way or they are indeed shown to be stuck, the pressure will be on to play the young guys if they are not already playing.


The pressure has been on since 2013.. all of our rookies with the exception of Oladipo came off the bench and didnt play more than 19mpg. I want to say that Oladipo played less than 30mpg his rookie year as well.


Image

This phenom averaged 30 mpg in rookie year, started 63 of 82 games and, shined with 45% TS and 43% eFG.
"A straight path never leads anywhere except to the objective."
Andre Gide
User avatar
j-ragg
RealGM
Posts: 17,738
And1: 11,140
Joined: Mar 31, 2005
Location: the don't re-sign Hedo bandwagon.
   

Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#744 » by j-ragg » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:33 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Gordon Hayward inking $120M contract for a team that is definiton of mediocrity and in same time Lakers adding 50 new players on championship roster despite all cap regulations is clear example why nba has 30 teams but vast majority of them are there to fill need for schedule and not really compete for anything.

I hope we all on this board agree... I'm glad we're not Charlotte after this off-season. Talk about no direction... maxed out Hayward and young stud LaMelo Ball to lead them :lol:
BadMofoPimp wrote:Durant thinks Vooch is one of the Best Centers in the NBA. I will take his word over a couch-GM yelling at a TV.
User avatar
Furinkazan
Head Coach
Posts: 7,291
And1: 3,217
Joined: May 11, 2005
       

Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#745 » by Furinkazan » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:41 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
OrlMagic05 wrote:
Howard Mass wrote:
If things are going the wrong way or they are indeed shown to be stuck, the pressure will be on to play the young guys if they are not already playing.


The pressure has been on since 2013.. all of our rookies with the exception of Oladipo came off the bench and didnt play more than 19mpg. I want to say that Oladipo played less than 30mpg his rookie year as well.


Image

This phenom averaged 30 mpg in rookie year, started 63 of 82 games and, shined with 45% TS and 43% eFG.


This phenom was also a reason why Skiles ended up in a mental asylum
User avatar
PrimeThyme
General Manager
Posts: 8,444
And1: 11,055
Joined: May 25, 2016
Location: Doak Campbell
 

Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#746 » by PrimeThyme » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:50 pm

I thought Char had a horrendous offseason. Both in terms of who they drafted and who they signed. Atlanta had a far better one. I do however think that both teams will be better than us next year. Charlotte set themselves up to be better in the short term && should be fighting for a playoff spot next year. Atlanta just has a flat out better roster.

Instead of hoarding the vets on ours, this FO should accept that fact and start thinking about the development of young guys.

In my opinion, that means Fournier has to go. With the potential elite guard talent at the top of the draft next year, we have to see what we have in Fultz. No matter the result, I'd give Fultz a 28%+ usage rate next year and really find out what we have in him. I'd fully remove the training wheels (Aka Fultz standing in the corner while Fournier plays buddy ball) && determine whether or not we need to be taking a point guard at the top of the draft.

Fultz is going to be a major swing player for us next season and will decide what we need to do going forward. If he has another subpar shooting year where he is taking that push shot from the 3pt line and is still hesitant to take anything beyond a 10-foot jumper, we will know it's time to move on.

If he takes a major jump, we might be able to take one of the elite wing/center prospects projected to be there instead.
Image
OrlMagic05
Rookie
Posts: 1,102
And1: 633
Joined: Aug 01, 2014
 

Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#747 » by OrlMagic05 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:01 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
OrlMagic05 wrote:
Howard Mass wrote:
If things are going the wrong way or they are indeed shown to be stuck, the pressure will be on to play the young guys if they are not already playing.


The pressure has been on since 2013.. all of our rookies with the exception of Oladipo came off the bench and didnt play more than 19mpg. I want to say that Oladipo played less than 30mpg his rookie year as well.


Image

This phenom averaged 30 mpg in rookie year, started 63 of 82 games and, shined with 45% TS and 43% eFG.


How could I forget about Payton..
jonbob17
Sophomore
Posts: 245
And1: 126
Joined: Jul 01, 2020

Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#748 » by jonbob17 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:17 pm

j-ragg wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Gordon Hayward inking $120M contract for a team that is definiton of mediocrity and in same time Lakers adding 50 new players on championship roster despite all cap regulations is clear example why nba has 30 teams but vast majority of them are there to fill need for schedule and not really compete for anything.

I hope we all on this board agree... I'm glad we're not Charlotte after this off-season. Talk about no direction... maxed out Hayward and young stud LaMelo Ball to lead them :lol:


The Hayward signing has a real chance to look bad in a couple years, he was probably getting 4/100 from somebody else, so they paid a pretty big premium to get him there. He is good though, he has had some injuries, but there is no reason to think that past injuries should suggest a future one in his case. I mean plenty around here were suggesting we trade for him, and if we did he would have been the best player on the team. What else did Charlotte have to spend their money on. They don't have any rookie deals that are going to be super high extensions, outside of Lamelo, which is 5 years out.
And with the 3rd pick they got the best player in the draft, some of the other picks were suspect, Riller was a nice gamble late.
Not a bad offseason. They won't be great, but they won't be an easy out either.
I think our offseason was far worse. The only teams with worse than the Magic offseasons by my estimation are Detroit and Houston. We had a clear path, and we chose to ignore it.
Or maybe we just found out we are an older version of Charlotte, and are willing to overpay for guys like Vuc to stay competitive, because that is our goal too. Continuity, guys.
Nyce_1
RealGM
Posts: 10,763
And1: 4,754
Joined: Jun 29, 2009
Location: Tampa
 

Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#749 » by Nyce_1 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:48 pm

Could/should we make a play for Buddy love? Sending Fournier saves them tons but allows them to match Bogi and not worry about ling term financials.
User avatar
MagicMatic
Head Coach
Posts: 6,766
And1: 6,672
Joined: May 30, 2016
 

Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#750 » by MagicMatic » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:55 pm

j-ragg wrote:
Furinkazan wrote:Maybe its time for a new thread title.
Apologysts time.

ezzzp is gonna make his comeback

:lol: my best friend?
User avatar
MagicMatic
Head Coach
Posts: 6,766
And1: 6,672
Joined: May 30, 2016
 

Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#751 » by MagicMatic » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:09 pm

zaymon wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
zaymon wrote:Cmon guys last guys standing from Henny era are Fournier, Vucevic, Ross and Gordon.
Vucevic is rare skilled big man and allstar, Ross would fit on any team with his shooting and Gordon/Fournier are rumored to be in trade talks all the time.
No one is excited to watch Cole and Okeke ? They are both so different from what we have seen so far.


So... the entire rotation for offense production?

Yeah, they haven’t addressed or changed anything in their tenure related to the extremely limited and predictable offense.

Cole could be a change, but how much is he really going to impact anything with the aforementioned players taking all the minutes under Clifford? Maybe in 2022.

This is a clown show at this point. The FO has almost become a parody of itself.


Vucevic and Fournier were our temporary engine. Funny thing is they were not even limiting our ceiling, Isaac and Gordon were. Fournier improved to the point he is well above average pick and roll ball handler. His struggles are similar to what Cole Anthony went through in NC. You drive and have Fultz, Isaac, Gordon and Vucevic for kick out. Last year he played with Dj more and we were a seriously dangerous team at the end of season.
We wont be better until Fultz, Gordon, Ennis, whoever, become better shooters or get replaced.
I think Fultz and Vucevic becoming better shooters, bringing Okeke into rotation and possibly replacing Gordon will improve us infinitly better, than replacing Fournier and Vucevic which are not the problem in the first place.
There is a chance we have our offensive engine in place with Fultz, Anthony and Okeke. Why not give them a chance ?
Who do you think had better offseason, us or Detroid, Atlanta, Charlotte, Knicks, Wizards ?


I’m totally ok with giving Cole, Okeke, and Fultz a shot at taking a stab at leading an offense. Is Clifford?

I see no world where Clifford relies on those three + Bamba to “take over” in a down year with Fournier, Ross, AG, and Vuc on the roster. Clifford’s job is to win games. He’s a 60 year old coach that isn’t going to spend time reinventing the wheel of this anemic offense simply because next year is a strong draft and there is nothing to lose. Can’t say I blame him either. Coaches seats get hot on a season to season basis now.

Weltman and Hammond should be fired for failing to make any changes to the offense since they were hired. Ownership probably thinks they’ve done an amazing job.
pepe1991
RealGM
Posts: 12,519
And1: 10,146
Joined: Jan 10, 2016
   

Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#752 » by pepe1991 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:11 pm

j-ragg wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Gordon Hayward inking $120M contract for a team that is definiton of mediocrity and in same time Lakers adding 50 new players on championship roster despite all cap regulations is clear example why nba has 30 teams but vast majority of them are there to fill need for schedule and not really compete for anything.

I hope we all on this board agree... I'm glad we're not Charlotte after this off-season. Talk about no direction... maxed out Hayward and young stud LaMelo Ball to lead them :lol:


Well it's hard to build a team where you can't ulitize free agency at all. Same is with Magic, probably Pelicans and few other teams like OKC, Memphis, Minessota , Washington, Atlanta or Toronto in past.


So it ends up being cycle of resigns just to keep player of ugly overpays to get some.

Raptors resigned Vleet, who is at very best- very average guard on $21M a year.
Danilo Galinari is solid player. But he is 32 and injury prone and plays same position as Collins. $20,5M price tag is what was needed to Atlanta to sign him. I bet in year and half he will be bought out and play for Clippers for $1,5M.

Davis Bertans is young man Nemanja Bjelica and now he signed 5 years contract like he is some superstar because he had solid offensive season on team that was capable of allowing 151 points in 48 min? :lol:

on flip side Ibaka and Harrell gone for MLE.. because they want to live in LA :noway:

once any sort of loyality was killed in nba, it was instant death of smaller market teams.
"A straight path never leads anywhere except to the objective."
Andre Gide
Skybox
Veteran
Posts: 2,909
And1: 1,631
Joined: Jan 21, 2017
 

Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#753 » by Skybox » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:20 pm

jonbob17 wrote:
j-ragg wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Gordon Hayward inking $120M contract for a team that is definiton of mediocrity and in same time Lakers adding 50 new players on championship roster despite all cap regulations is clear example why nba has 30 teams but vast majority of them are there to fill need for schedule and not really compete for anything.

I hope we all on this board agree... I'm glad we're not Charlotte after this off-season. Talk about no direction... maxed out Hayward and young stud LaMelo Ball to lead them :lol:


The Hayward signing has a real chance to look bad in a couple years, he was probably getting 4/100 from somebody else, so they paid a pretty big premium to get him there. He is good though, he has had some injuries, but there is no reason to think that past injuries should suggest a future one in his case. I mean plenty around here were suggesting we trade for him, and if we did he would have been the best player on the team. What else did Charlotte have to spend their money on. They don't have any rookie deals that are going to be super high extensions, outside of Lamelo, which is 5 years out.
And with the 3rd pick they got the best player in the draft, some of the other picks were suspect, Riller was a nice gamble late.
Not a bad offseason. They won't be great, but they won't be an easy out either.
I think our offseason was far worse. The only teams with worse than the Magic offseasons by my estimation are Detroit and Houston. We had a clear path, and we chose to ignore it.
Or maybe we just found out we are an older version of Charlotte, and are willing to overpay for guys like Vuc to stay competitive, because that is our goal too. Continuity, guys.


Hayward had his best statistical seasons last year. Why everyone on this board feels a 30 year old star is one foot in the grave. The way people are disregarding him and Westbrook (who will probably be MVP next year depending on where he lands) is crazy. Hayward broke his leg...that's not as foreboding as the variety of things Isaac or MPJ have had.
User avatar
MagicMatic
Head Coach
Posts: 6,766
And1: 6,672
Joined: May 30, 2016
 

Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#754 » by MagicMatic » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:23 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
j-ragg wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Gordon Hayward inking $120M contract for a team that is definiton of mediocrity and in same time Lakers adding 50 new players on championship roster despite all cap regulations is clear example why nba has 30 teams but vast majority of them are there to fill need for schedule and not really compete for anything.

I hope we all on this board agree... I'm glad we're not Charlotte after this off-season. Talk about no direction... maxed out Hayward and young stud LaMelo Ball to lead them :lol:


Well it's hard to build a team where you can't ulitize free agency at all. Same is with Magic, probably Pelicans and few other teams like OKC, Memphis, Minessota , Washington, Atlanta or Toronto in past.


So it ends up being cycle of resigns just to keep player of ugly overpays to get some.

Raptors resigned Vleet, who is at very best- very average guard on $21M a year.
Danilo Galinari is solid player. But he is 32 and injury prone and plays same position as Collins. $20,5M price tag is what was needed to Atlanta to sign him. I bet in year and half he will be bought out and play for Clippers for $1,5M.

Davis Bertans is young man Nemanja Bjelica and now he signed 5 years contract like he is some superstar because he had solid offensive season on team that was capable of allowing 151 points in 48 min? :lol:

on flip side Ibaka and Harrell gone for MLE.. because they want to live in LA :noway:

once any sort of loyality was killed in nba, it was instant death of smaller market teams.


This is why the nba is almost unwatchable to me. Anyone that looks at the deals being handed out, and to which teams, can see the same pattern.

You have guys that want to get paid, guys that want to win, and the elite superstars that want both. The second group always follow the last. The first group end up on teams that have no real shot.

And then you have Orlando that refuses to move anyone.
OrlMagic05
Rookie
Posts: 1,102
And1: 633
Joined: Aug 01, 2014
 

Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#755 » by OrlMagic05 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:35 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
zaymon wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
So... the entire rotation for offense production?

Yeah, they haven’t addressed or changed anything in their tenure related to the extremely limited and predictable offense.

Cole could be a change, but how much is he really going to impact anything with the aforementioned players taking all the minutes under Clifford? Maybe in 2022.

This is a clown show at this point. The FO has almost become a parody of itself.


Vucevic and Fournier were our temporary engine. Funny thing is they were not even limiting our ceiling, Isaac and Gordon were. Fournier improved to the point he is well above average pick and roll ball handler. His struggles are similar to what Cole Anthony went through in NC. You drive and have Fultz, Isaac, Gordon and Vucevic for kick out. Last year he played with Dj more and we were a seriously dangerous team at the end of season.
We wont be better until Fultz, Gordon, Ennis, whoever, become better shooters or get replaced.
I think Fultz and Vucevic becoming better shooters, bringing Okeke into rotation and possibly replacing Gordon will improve us infinitly better, than replacing Fournier and Vucevic which are not the problem in the first place.
There is a chance we have our offensive engine in place with Fultz, Anthony and Okeke. Why not give them a chance ?
Who do you think had better offseason, us or Detroid, Atlanta, Charlotte, Knicks, Wizards ?


I’m totally ok with giving Cole, Okeke, and Fultz a shot at taking a stab at leading an offense. Is Clifford?

I see no world where Clifford relies on those three + Bamba to “take over” in a down year with Fournier, Ross, AG, and Vuc on the roster. Clifford’s job is to win games. He’s a 60 year old coach that isn’t going to spend time reinventing the wheel of this anemic offense simply because next year is a strong draft and there is nothing to lose. Can’t say I blame him either. Coaches seats get hot on a season to season basis now.

Weltman and Hammond should be fired for failing to make any changes to the offense since they were hired. Ownership probably thinks they’ve done an amazing job.



Theres no chance in hell that Clifford will give Cole, Okeke, and Fultz a chance to lead the offense.

You bring up a good point about WeltHam not doing much to change the offense. If we really think about it, what have they really done with the exception of landing Fultz. The "core" (sad to say) of Vuc, AG, and Evan seems like will get another year.. SMH
pepe1991
RealGM
Posts: 12,519
And1: 10,146
Joined: Jan 10, 2016
   

Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#756 » by pepe1991 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:35 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
j-ragg wrote:I hope we all on this board agree... I'm glad we're not Charlotte after this off-season. Talk about no direction... maxed out Hayward and young stud LaMelo Ball to lead them :lol:


Well it's hard to build a team where you can't ulitize free agency at all. Same is with Magic, probably Pelicans and few other teams like OKC, Memphis, Minessota , Washington, Atlanta or Toronto in past.


So it ends up being cycle of resigns just to keep player of ugly overpays to get some.

Raptors resigned Vleet, who is at very best- very average guard on $21M a year.
Danilo Galinari is solid player. But he is 32 and injury prone and plays same position as Collins. $20,5M price tag is what was needed to Atlanta to sign him. I bet in year and half he will be bought out and play for Clippers for $1,5M.

Davis Bertans is young man Nemanja Bjelica and now he signed 5 years contract like he is some superstar because he had solid offensive season on team that was capable of allowing 151 points in 48 min? :lol:

on flip side Ibaka and Harrell gone for MLE.. because they want to live in LA :noway:

once any sort of loyality was killed in nba, it was instant death of smaller market teams.


This is why the nba is almost unwatchable to me. Anyone that looks at the deals being handed out, and to which teams, can see the same pattern.

You have guys that want to get paid, guys that want to win, and the elite superstars that want both. The second group always follow the last. The first group end up on teams that have no real shot.

And then you have Orlando that refuses to move anyone.



Pretty much same. I figured i enjoy debating and talking nba way more than actually watch games :lol:
"A straight path never leads anywhere except to the objective."
Andre Gide
pepe1991
RealGM
Posts: 12,519
And1: 10,146
Joined: Jan 10, 2016
   

Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#757 » by pepe1991 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:38 pm

oh look, Mitchell just signed contract that will shut down chance for Jazz to build contending roster.
:lol:

Man, is it time to remove salary cap? It only hinders small market teams as Warriors and Lakers are fine burning $600 000 000 000 in luxury.
"A straight path never leads anywhere except to the objective."
Andre Gide
Skybox
Veteran
Posts: 2,909
And1: 1,631
Joined: Jan 21, 2017
 

Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#758 » by Skybox » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:43 pm

pepe1991 wrote:oh look, Mitchell just signed contract that will shut down chance for Jazz to build contending roster.
:lol:

Man, is it time to remove salary cap? It only hinders small market teams as Warriors and Lakers are fine burning $600 000 000 000 in luxury.


with Gobert coming for Supermax close behind...they'll end up trading him for pieces. Then, at the end of his deal, he'll go to the Lakers for $3m
OrlMagic05
Rookie
Posts: 1,102
And1: 633
Joined: Aug 01, 2014
 

Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#759 » by OrlMagic05 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:43 pm

pepe1991 wrote:oh look, Mitchell just signed contract that will shut down chance for Jazz to build contending roster.
:lol:

Man, is it time to remove salary cap? It only hinders small market teams as Warriors and Lakers are fine burning $600 000 000 000 in luxury.


You can't be mad at Mitchell or the Jazz. You have to pay your superstar or he will find someone else that will lol
User avatar
Ducklett
Analyst
Posts: 3,232
And1: 2,051
Joined: Jul 17, 2012

Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#760 » by Ducklett » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:53 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
j-ragg wrote:I hope we all on this board agree... I'm glad we're not Charlotte after this off-season. Talk about no direction... maxed out Hayward and young stud LaMelo Ball to lead them :lol:


Well it's hard to build a team where you can't ulitize free agency at all. Same is with Magic, probably Pelicans and few other teams like OKC, Memphis, Minessota , Washington, Atlanta or Toronto in past.


So it ends up being cycle of resigns just to keep player of ugly overpays to get some.

Raptors resigned Vleet, who is at very best- very average guard on $21M a year.
Danilo Galinari is solid player. But he is 32 and injury prone and plays same position as Collins. $20,5M price tag is what was needed to Atlanta to sign him. I bet in year and half he will be bought out and play for Clippers for $1,5M.

Davis Bertans is young man Nemanja Bjelica and now he signed 5 years contract like he is some superstar because he had solid offensive season on team that was capable of allowing 151 points in 48 min? :lol:

on flip side Ibaka and Harrell gone for MLE.. because they want to live in LA :noway:

once any sort of loyality was killed in nba, it was instant death of smaller market teams.


This is why the nba is almost unwatchable to me. Anyone that looks at the deals being handed out, and to which teams, can see the same pattern.

You have guys that want to get paid, guys that want to win, and the elite superstars that want both. The second group always follow the last. The first group end up on teams that have no real shot.

And then you have Orlando that refuses to move anyone.


Don't worry, the experts predict with all the of mass exodus out of the biggest cities towards Texas and Florida, in 25-40 years Orlando may be a top 10 market. 2060 plan!

Return to Orlando Magic