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Vucevic - Keep or Trade?

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Vuc

Keep
16
33%
Trade
32
67%
 
Total votes: 48

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Re: Vucevic - Keep or Trade? 

Post#21 » by thelead » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:05 pm

I loved him at first with the rebounding tenacity he brought. Then he got comfortable, slacked off, and started developing bad habits which had me hating him. Now with Fultz... he's actually a great big for Fultz to play the pick and roll with... IF he decides to play defense ALL THE TIME.

A lot depends on Bamba's development as well. If he can't play effective starters minutes, I'm not sure what the path forward is.
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Re: Vucevic - Keep or Trade? 

Post#22 » by The Effect » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:04 pm

With how much the rest of the top teams in the east have loaded up, there's no point in trying to develop this same team. We need to reload, build around fultz, cole and okeke

Trade away vuc, gordon and Evan for picks and young talent and rebuilding
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Re: Vucevic - Keep or Trade? 

Post#23 » by jonbob17 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:39 pm

The Effect wrote:With how much the rest of the top teams in the east have loaded up, there's no point in trying to develop this same team. We need to reload, build around fultz, cole and okeke

Trade away vuc, gordon and Evan for picks and young talent and rebuilding


Seems like management is satisfied with a team that with a peak in the 4th-6th seed, where the peak is longer. Maybe like Indiana.
Basketball is probably the toughest sport to win a championship. One player can make a team, since there is only 5 guys on the court at a time. Unless you have one of the most elite athletes in the world on your team (top 10 guy) you probably don't have a chance. Miami, this year, makes this look a bit silly, that was a hell of a job they did team building and coaching.

Personally, a small rebuild would be much more exciting to me, hope for the future and uncertainty is more interesting. I guess the average fan just wants to see a team that can win on a given night. The thought of knowing the outcome 10-7th seed, just sucks the enthusiasm from me. Which at the beginning of the bubble I had a tremendous amount of. The JI injury was just tough, i fully expected him to turn into a top 10-15 guy, and he may very well still, just all the what-ifs on this team and the limited upside, makes contender outcomes so low.
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Re: Vucevic - Keep or Trade? 

Post#24 » by fendilim » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:55 pm

I dont know how to answer this silly question.

We have players that are untouchables???
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Re: Vucevic - Keep or Trade? 

Post#25 » by The Effect » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:37 pm

fendilim wrote:I dont know how to answer this silly question.

We have players that are untouchables???

In a potential rebuild id PREFER not to trade fultz or Anthony (and for now okeke since we havent seen what he can do yet), but i wouldnt classify anyone as untouchable in the right deal

The only players in the league who should be untouchable are superstars (lebron, giannis steph etc), we dont have one of those, we have a 15 role players with a couple potential stars (not superstars, just stars)
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Re: Vucevic - Keep or Trade? 

Post#26 » by The Effect » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:40 pm

jonbob17 wrote:
The Effect wrote:With how much the rest of the top teams in the east have loaded up, there's no point in trying to develop this same team. We need to reload, build around fultz, cole and okeke

Trade away vuc, gordon and Evan for picks and young talent and rebuilding


Seems like management is satisfied with a team that with a peak in the 4th-6th seed, where the peak is longer. Maybe like Indiana.
Basketball is probably the toughest sport to win a championship. One player can make a team, since there is only 5 guys on the court at a time. Unless you have one of the most elite athletes in the world on your team (top 10 guy) you probably don't have a chance. Miami, this year, makes this look a bit silly, that was a hell of a job they did team building and coaching.

Personally, a small rebuild would be much more exciting to me, hope for the future and uncertainty is more interesting. I guess the average fan just wants to see a team that can win on a given night. The thought of knowing the outcome 10-7th seed, just sucks the enthusiasm from me. Which at the beginning of the bubble I had a tremendous amount of. The JI injury was just tough, i fully expected him to turn into a top 10-15 guy, and he may very well still, just all the what-ifs on this team and the limited upside, makes contender outcomes so low.


Yeah, the tough that this teams peak is a 4-5 seed is very disheartening, because you see teams reload so quickly, yet we have been building for 10 years now and still arent anywhere near a real contending team.

I hope Fultz continues to improve to the point that he lives up to his predraft projections, and i hope Cole becomes the guy he was thought to be 12 months ago, and that okeke was this amazing steal we got because of an injury, but as of right now, we are looking like another 7-8 seed
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Re: Vucevic - Keep or Trade? 

Post#27 » by thelead » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:48 pm

The Effect wrote:
jonbob17 wrote:
The Effect wrote:With how much the rest of the top teams in the east have loaded up, there's no point in trying to develop this same team. We need to reload, build around fultz, cole and okeke

Trade away vuc, gordon and Evan for picks and young talent and rebuilding


Seems like management is satisfied with a team that with a peak in the 4th-6th seed, where the peak is longer. Maybe like Indiana.
Basketball is probably the toughest sport to win a championship. One player can make a team, since there is only 5 guys on the court at a time. Unless you have one of the most elite athletes in the world on your team (top 10 guy) you probably don't have a chance. Miami, this year, makes this look a bit silly, that was a hell of a job they did team building and coaching.

Personally, a small rebuild would be much more exciting to me, hope for the future and uncertainty is more interesting. I guess the average fan just wants to see a team that can win on a given night. The thought of knowing the outcome 10-7th seed, just sucks the enthusiasm from me. Which at the beginning of the bubble I had a tremendous amount of. The JI injury was just tough, i fully expected him to turn into a top 10-15 guy, and he may very well still, just all the what-ifs on this team and the limited upside, makes contender outcomes so low.


Yeah, the tough that this teams peak is a 4-5 seed is very disheartening, because you see teams reload so quickly, yet we have been building for 10 years now and still arent anywhere near a real contending team.

I hope Fultz continues to improve to the point that he lives up to his predraft projections, and i hope Cole becomes the guy he was thought to be 12 months ago, and that okeke was this amazing steal we got because of an injury, but as of right now, we are looking like another 7-8 seed


Are we really looking like another 7-8 seed?

We lost Isaac for the year and teams like Washington and Atlanta likely will be significantly better. If Atlanta can sign someone like Hayward we'll be a lotto team for sure next year.
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Re: Vucevic - Keep or Trade? 

Post#28 » by pepe1991 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:52 pm

Nobody is untouchable, but if you are replacing him, shouldn't you at least have player capabele of lasting 50 games worth 25 min a game at his position ? That guy on Orlando Magic today flat out does not exist.
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Re: Vucevic - Keep or Trade? 

Post#29 » by The Effect » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:58 pm

thelead wrote:
The Effect wrote:
jonbob17 wrote:
Seems like management is satisfied with a team that with a peak in the 4th-6th seed, where the peak is longer. Maybe like Indiana.
Basketball is probably the toughest sport to win a championship. One player can make a team, since there is only 5 guys on the court at a time. Unless you have one of the most elite athletes in the world on your team (top 10 guy) you probably don't have a chance. Miami, this year, makes this look a bit silly, that was a hell of a job they did team building and coaching.

Personally, a small rebuild would be much more exciting to me, hope for the future and uncertainty is more interesting. I guess the average fan just wants to see a team that can win on a given night. The thought of knowing the outcome 10-7th seed, just sucks the enthusiasm from me. Which at the beginning of the bubble I had a tremendous amount of. The JI injury was just tough, i fully expected him to turn into a top 10-15 guy, and he may very well still, just all the what-ifs on this team and the limited upside, makes contender outcomes so low.


Yeah, the tough that this teams peak is a 4-5 seed is very disheartening, because you see teams reload so quickly, yet we have been building for 10 years now and still arent anywhere near a real contending team.

I hope Fultz continues to improve to the point that he lives up to his predraft projections, and i hope Cole becomes the guy he was thought to be 12 months ago, and that okeke was this amazing steal we got because of an injury, but as of right now, we are looking like another 7-8 seed


Are we really looking like another 7-8 seed?

We lost Isaac for the year and teams like Washington and Atlanta likely will be significantly better. If Atlanta can sign someone like Hayward we'll be a lotto team for sure next year.

Sorry, meant to say "looking like a 7-8 seed AT BEST"
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Re: Vucevic - Keep or Trade? 

Post#30 » by pepe1991 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:00 pm

The Effect wrote:With how much the rest of the top teams in the east have loaded up, there's no point in trying to develop this same team. We need to reload, build around fultz, cole and okeke

Trade away vuc, gordon and Evan for picks and young talent and rebuilding


You can't "reload" roster around players that are either unproven or flat out painfully average.
I mean building around Fultz is equivalent of building roster around Evan Fournier or Marcus Smart.

If this team is interested in rebuilding like rebuild should be done, than paying Fultz his exstension isn't really worth it and he should be trade asset , among others, for future picks.
Every serious rebuild should be around future star ballhandlers, so Fultz is easly first guy to go once that player is there, or be proactive and create space for ( yet unnamed) player to fill that role. Why even play along with " what to do with restriced free agent , resign or lose for nothing" scenario. Because you will end up losing him for nothing.

Ship him, ship Vuc, ship Evan. Ship Gordon. Start rebuild.
But you are NOT retooling roster around 12 ppg ,51% TS point guard and 6'3 shooting guard that showed zero efficiency at college, ACL tear recovery PF, ACL tear recovered rookie and guy who can't get over Corona after being cleared by doctors months ago.
That roster has no future.
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Re: Vucevic - Keep or Trade? 

Post#31 » by PrimeThyme » Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:10 pm

You could trade him. Next years draft seems pretty guard/wing heavy though. If you trade Vuc, you are basically committing to a rebuild. You also certainly arent during it under the assumption that Bamba is his replacement. It can't be understated how up in the air his career is right now. He still hasn't recovered from Covid a month out from the season.

I don't even know if he can handle rotational minutes because of it at this stage. Looking at 2021 mocks Evan Mobley seems really interesting. It would be hard to pass on one of those guards/forwards if you had a top 5 pick though.
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Re: Vucevic - Keep or Trade? 

Post#32 » by p0peye » Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:11 pm

If the trade is to bring players/assets that will improve the team in short term, than yes. If it is a dump so we can bottom out to the lottery, no.
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Re: Vucevic - Keep or Trade? 

Post#33 » by p0peye » Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:21 pm

pepe1991 wrote:But you are NOT retooling roster around 12 ppg ,51% TS point guard and 6'3 shooting guard that showed zero efficiency at college, ACL tear recovery PF, ACL tear recovered rookie and guy who can't get over Corona after being cleared by doctors months ago.
That roster has no future.


I would +1 this thousand times and again.

To add, on our present roster we have:
- 1st pick
- 4th pick
- 6th pick
- another 6th pick

To top that, we traded:
- 2nd pick
- 5th pick
- 10th pick

All that was collected by spending 6 years in lottery (2013-2018). Draw your own conclusions.
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Re: Vucevic - Keep or Trade? 

Post#34 » by pepe1991 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:46 pm

p0peye wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:But you are NOT retooling roster around 12 ppg ,51% TS point guard and 6'3 shooting guard that showed zero efficiency at college, ACL tear recovery PF, ACL tear recovered rookie and guy who can't get over Corona after being cleared by doctors months ago.
That roster has no future.


I would +1 this thousand times and again.

To add, on our present roster we have:
- 1st pick
- 4th pick
- 6th pick
- another 6th pick

To top that, we traded:
- 2nd pick
- 5th pick
- 10th pick

All that was collected by spending 6 years in lottery (2013-2018). Draw your own conclusions.


Around 2012 "best young cores" included , outside obvious suspects- OKC ( who menaged to never win championships with 3 HOFs) teams like : Nuggets (Galinari, Lawson, Farried ) , Memphis ( Conley, Gay, OJ Mayo), 76ers ( Bynum :rofl: ), T wolves ( Kevin Love, Derick Williams,Shved ) , Pacers ( George, Hibbert) , Jazz ( Burk, Hayward, Favors) , Pelicans( Davis, Eric at times viewed as superstar Gordon ) Cavs ( Kyrie , Waiters ) ...

And yes, OKC menaged to almost done impossible and never achive anything with 3 HOFs, and Warriors menaged to build championship roster and win championship with their young core, but for vast majority of reubilding and "great core" teams, their cores and rebuilds really didn't brought anything sustainable. Most taems within 5 years lost their best players in one way or another.

Rebuilds are constant cycls of trail and errors. There was period of time when nba world thought OJ Mayo and Rudy Gay will be killing NBA... And its' fine. But fans elect to cherrypick few sucessful rebuilds and act like 90% of them are not complete dumpster fire. Suns started their rebuild in what? 2012 ? When they traded 38 years old Nash if i'm not mistaking? Now, almost 8 years later, their rebuild is finished by trading for 35 years old Chris Paul. They basically wasted 8 years on nothing.
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Re: Vucevic - Keep or Trade? 

Post#35 » by SOUL » Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:58 pm

The flipside of young cores that didn't work out are trash vet playoff teams that made it for no reason year after year (like the Bucks of old). Was just in the Milwaukee board and they literally dubbed it "what Orlando did this year" when they said "how did that team make the playoffs?" .. it was Jennings/Ennis/Mbah a Moute/Ersan/Sanders.. barf.
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Re: Vucevic - Keep or Trade? 

Post#36 » by Ducklett » Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:04 pm

I put trade because Vuc has been the picture of professionalism while he has been here in Orlando. From a personality standpoint he is one of my favorite Magicians of all time. I think he deserves a shot at a ring and he will never, ever get one here.
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Re: Vucevic - Keep or Trade? 

Post#37 » by jonbob17 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:05 pm

thelead wrote:
The Effect wrote:
jonbob17 wrote:
Seems like management is satisfied with a team that with a peak in the 4th-6th seed, where the peak is longer. Maybe like Indiana.
Basketball is probably the toughest sport to win a championship. One player can make a team, since there is only 5 guys on the court at a time. Unless you have one of the most elite athletes in the world on your team (top 10 guy) you probably don't have a chance. Miami, this year, makes this look a bit silly, that was a hell of a job they did team building and coaching.

Personally, a small rebuild would be much more exciting to me, hope for the future and uncertainty is more interesting. I guess the average fan just wants to see a team that can win on a given night. The thought of knowing the outcome 10-7th seed, just sucks the enthusiasm from me. Which at the beginning of the bubble I had a tremendous amount of. The JI injury was just tough, i fully expected him to turn into a top 10-15 guy, and he may very well still, just all the what-ifs on this team and the limited upside, makes contender outcomes so low.


Yeah, the tough that this teams peak is a 4-5 seed is very disheartening, because you see teams reload so quickly, yet we have been building for 10 years now and still arent anywhere near a real contending team.

I hope Fultz continues to improve to the point that he lives up to his predraft projections, and i hope Cole becomes the guy he was thought to be 12 months ago, and that okeke was this amazing steal we got because of an injury, but as of right now, we are looking like another 7-8 seed


Are we really looking like another 7-8 seed?

We lost Isaac for the year and teams like Washington and Atlanta likely will be significantly better. If Atlanta can sign someone like Hayward we'll be a lotto team for sure next year.


You never know how those play-in games are going to change things. Depending on how the next few days goes the 8th seed seems like it is within reach. Atlanta should be a lot better. I will believe Washington is better when I see it. Their atrociousness on defense is hard to minimize, i guess that goes for Atlanta as well. Curious to see what NY does in free agency. they could challenge us too, as farfetched as it sounds.

Check out Clifford's record. He is good at getting bad teams to .500 or close to it.
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Re: Vucevic - Keep or Trade? 

Post#38 » by The Real Dalic » Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:10 pm

SOUL wrote:The flipside of young cores that didn't work out are trash vet playoff teams that made it for no reason year after year (like the Bucks of old). Was just in the Milwaukee board and they literally dubbed it "what Orlando did this year" when they said "how did that team make the playoffs?" .. it was Jennings/Ennis/Mbah a Moute/Ersan/Sanders.. barf.

I agree with making a move either to make us much better like trading for Westbrook, or something like that, or to get worse for the year and re-tool. But that Bucks team was definitely way worse than this current Magic team. We have a legitimate All-Star level player and 4 really good role players in Fultz, Gordon, Ross, Fournier. That's before even mentioning Isaac.
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Re: Vucevic - Keep or Trade? 

Post#39 » by UCF » Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:46 pm

If Bamba is healthy, we should trade Vooch if the right deal is available. We invested in Bamba with a high pick and it’s about time to give him the opportunity to rise into the role as a starter or fail.
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Re: Vucevic - Keep or Trade? 

Post#40 » by Def Swami » Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:06 pm

If there were ever a season to tank, it's the one that is shortened and without fans in the buildings.

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