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Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15

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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#1381 » by Skin » Tue Nov 9, 2021 5:32 pm

Cole Anthony HATER here, checking in for some crow.

He's growing on me. I'll say that. It seems like his handle has been more crisp and under control lately. Some of his jab steps and cross overs have been working to his credit. Always liked his 3 point and dunking ability so nothing new there. Nobody cares about a chucker if their shots are falling, so yeah. He deserves his due for making the shots that he's been taking.

But the thing that I've had to take a step back and and re-analyze.... and this is probably just a generational thing at this point probably... but damn, his mouth and the stuff spewing out of it is sooooooo cringy to me. Everytime I see him in front of a mic I'm always embarrassed for what he's about to say next. BUT... His teammates LOVE him! ...I think? The way he is, is just the way kids are these days? He seems to love fun and he obviously loves being a good teammates. He's one of those guys that can unite a group. I value that. He's turned himself into a team leader and face of the franchise, and man, his play on the floor... Nobody can knock him right now. Not even a hater like me.
Markelle Fultz, Jalen Suggs, Chuma Okeke, Jonathan Isaac, Wendell Carter Jr.
Cole Anthony, RJ Hampton, Franz Wagner, Moritz Wagner, Mo Bamba. LESSSSGOOOOO!
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#1382 » by Knightro » Tue Nov 9, 2021 6:29 pm

Anthony's interviews make me laugh. He's like a caricature of a actual person, only that's really him.

Just a harmless, goofy zoomer.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#1383 » by UCF » Tue Nov 9, 2021 7:27 pm

Knightro wrote:Anthony's interviews make me laugh. He's like a caricature of a actual person, only that's really him.

Just a harmless, goofy zoomer.


It’s all entertainment and definitely makes me laugh when he stares right into the camera. I like that he’s all about his teammates and giving credit.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#1384 » by RookieStar » Tue Nov 9, 2021 7:53 pm

Optimus_Steel wrote:Is he reminding anyone of CJ McCollum?


Honestly? It's hard to seeing as CJ would always be linked as a sidekick to Dame....

So who is Cole's Dame? Suggs not there yet.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#1385 » by Bensational » Tue Nov 9, 2021 9:55 pm

Skin wrote:Cole Anthony HATER here, checking in for some crow.

He's growing on me. I'll say that. It seems like his handle has been more crisp and under control lately. Some of his jab steps and cross overs have been working to his credit. Always liked his 3 point and dunking ability so nothing new there. Nobody cares about a chucker if their shots are falling, so yeah. He deserves his due for making the shots that he's been taking.

But the thing that I've had to take a step back and and re-analyze.... and this is probably just a generational thing at this point probably... but damn, his mouth and the stuff spewing out of it is sooooooo cringy to me. Everytime I see him in front of a mic I'm always embarrassed for what he's about to say next. BUT... His teammates LOVE him! ...I think? The way he is, is just the way kids are these days? He seems to love fun and he obviously loves being a good teammates. He's one of those guys that can unite a group. I value that. He's turned himself into a team leader and face of the franchise, and man, his play on the floor... Nobody can knock him right now. Not even a hater like me.


My only gripe is that I don’t like his brand of hype, but I’ve just gotta get over it. It’s certainly not hurting anyone. He really is playing out of his mind right now, and it’s fun to watch for. If he can keep hitting difficult shots at an elite level and crazy confidence helps him get there, then I can get down with it.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#1386 » by tooler » Tue Nov 9, 2021 10:10 pm

Maybe this board skews more toward the old fuddy duddy end of the spectrum than I expected. If you go anywhere else on the Internet, almost everyone is laughing up a storm at Cole's interviews. They're having a ton of fun with it.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#1387 » by Bigmagicfan82 » Tue Nov 9, 2021 10:56 pm

I wonder how some of you would react if we had Trae Young on this team. He is shorter than Cole, shoots about as much as Cole, and right now Cole is shooting better than Young did in his second year in the league. Hell is shooting better than Young this year. I don't see you calling Young a chucker.

For some reason many magic fans seem to suffer from some cognitive biases. In particular confirmation bias and anchoring. The reality is it seems like with some of you will always have negative impression of the man no matter what he does. You have anchored yourself to the impression that he is a "chucker" and that he is nothing more than a back up. When you are presented with data that shows that he has improved and is playing spectacular all you do is try to discount or ignore it. All the haters say " He is just a chucker", "how long will it last", or "he will regress back to the mean". Yeah except for one fact that the mean can move. Players can improve. Using last years mean is just silly. Will Cole Anthony cool off some? Most likely but that doesn't mean that he will go back to least years efficiency. Assuming that doesn't make sense. In fact most players make their biggest jump from year 1 to year 2. Also, don't forget that last years was not a traditional year for the league. Covid took away summer league and most of the pre-season last year. This may have skewed the performance of many of the players. He had a more traditional year this year and that most likely helped.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#1388 » by Skybox » Tue Nov 9, 2021 10:56 pm

UCF wrote:
Knightro wrote:Anthony's interviews make me laugh. He's like a caricature of a actual person, only that's really him.

Just a harmless, goofy zoomer.


It’s all entertainment and definitely makes me laugh when he stares right into the camera. I like that he’s all about his teammates and giving credit.


WWF style
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#1389 » by Knightro » Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:09 am

Bigmagicfan82 wrote:I wonder how some of you would react if we had Trae Young on this team. He is shorter than Cole, shoots about as much as Cole, and right now Cole is shooting better than Young did in his second year in the league. Hell is shooting better than Young this year. I don't see you calling Young a chucker.

For some reason many magic fans seem to suffer from some cognitive biases. In particular confirmation bias and anchoring. The reality is it seems like with some of you will always have negative impression of the man no matter what he does. You have anchored yourself to the impression that he is a "chucker" and that he is nothing more than a back up. When you are presented with data that shows that he has improved and is playing spectacular all you do is try to discount or ignore it. All the haters say " He is just a chucker", "how long will it last", or "he will regress back to the mean". Yeah except for one fact that the mean can move. Players can improve. Using last years mean is just silly. Will Cole Anthony cool off some? Most likely but that doesn't mean that he will go back to least years efficiency. Assuming that doesn't make sense. In fact most players make their biggest jump from year 1 to year 2. Also, don't forget that last years was not a traditional year for the league. Covid took away summer league and most of the pre-season last year. This may have skewed the performance of many of the players. He had a more traditional year this year and that most likely helped.


People are not pessimistic on Cole Anthony's future because he's a chucker. Not in the slightest. If he's able to shoot and score this efficiently over the course of a full season, he has a SIGNIFICANT role on any NBA team. Even if his efficiency drops off a little bit from where it is now, he still has plenty of paths to being a productive player on a good team.

What people are concerned with is that he doesn't seem like he's capable of doing much else at a high level beyond shoot/score.

-He is not a particularly good passer or capable of consistently making plays for other people
-He is not big or long enough to defend anything but PGs and he's not good at defending PGs either at the moment
-He isn't really capable of playing in an off the ball SG role full time because he looks lost and uncomfortable when the ball isn't in his hands.

So what is he? Right now he's a shooting guard in a point guard's body who has to play point guard because of size and skill limitations, but with a shooting guard's mentality and game.

And the Trae Young comparison is a particularly bad one for a lot of reasons. Trae has his warts, but he is pretty clearly a plus playmaker. In fact, that's overwhelmingly his best overall skill.

If Anthony could pass and make plays for others as well as Trae can, he'd be a sure fire all-star.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#1390 » by Bigmagicfan82 » Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:48 am

Knightro wrote:
Bigmagicfan82 wrote:I wonder how some of you would react if we had Trae Young on this team. He is shorter than Cole, shoots about as much as Cole, and right now Cole is shooting better than Young did in his second year in the league. Hell is shooting better than Young this year. I don't see you calling Young a chucker.

For some reason many magic fans seem to suffer from some cognitive biases. In particular confirmation bias and anchoring. The reality is it seems like with some of you will always have negative impression of the man no matter what he does. You have anchored yourself to the impression that he is a "chucker" and that he is nothing more than a back up. When you are presented with data that shows that he has improved and is playing spectacular all you do is try to discount or ignore it. All the haters say " He is just a chucker", "how long will it last", or "he will regress back to the mean". Yeah except for one fact that the mean can move. Players can improve. Using last years mean is just silly. Will Cole Anthony cool off some? Most likely but that doesn't mean that he will go back to least years efficiency. Assuming that doesn't make sense. In fact most players make their biggest jump from year 1 to year 2. Also, don't forget that last years was not a traditional year for the league. Covid took away summer league and most of the pre-season last year. This may have skewed the performance of many of the players. He had a more traditional year this year and that most likely helped.


People are not pessimistic on Cole Anthony's future because he's a chucker. Not in the slightest. If he's able to shoot and score this efficiently over the course of a full season, he has a SIGNIFICANT role on any NBA team. Even if his efficiency drops off a little bit from where it is now, he still has plenty of paths to being a productive player on a good team.

What people are concerned with is that he doesn't seem like he's capable of doing much else at a high level beyond shoot/score.

-He is not a particularly good passer or capable of consistently making plays for other people
-He is not big or long enough to defend anything but PGs and he's not good at defending PGs either at the moment
-He isn't really capable of playing in an off the ball SG role full time because he looks vlost and uncomfortable when the ball isn't in his hands.

So what is he? Right now he's a shooting guard in a point guard's body who has to play point guard because of size and skill limitations, but with a shooting guard's mentality and game.

And the Trae Young comparison is a particularly bad one for a lot of reasons. Trae has his warts, but he is pretty clearly a plus playmaker. In fact, that's overwhelmingly his best overall skill.

If Anthony could pass and make plays for others as well as Trae can, he'd be a sure fire all-star.


I don't think it is fair to say that he is not good at anything else but scoring. He has shown him himself to be a very good rebounder, and he is not a bad passer. He is not a defensive stopper but isn't a traffic cone either. The team is better on both ends of the floor with him on the court.

I don't think it is fair to say that he isn't a good passer. You don't average over 5 assists a game as a bad passer. The reality is that the Magic run him more as a SG than as a PG. They need him to shoot more. But when you compare his numbers to a player like Trae Young and take into consideration the fact that Suggs is doing most of the setting up for the Magic, you see that his numbers aren't that bad. Young is a good comparison. In fact Young is worst defender by large margin as compared to Cole. Their Assist to Turnover ratios are in line with each other. Yes, Young's Assist % is higher than Cole's but Young has more responsibility in that area then Cole does. But that mean that Cole can't set people up.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#1391 » by Xatticus » Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:32 am

Bigmagicfan82 wrote:
Knightro wrote:
Bigmagicfan82 wrote:I wonder how some of you would react if we had Trae Young on this team. He is shorter than Cole, shoots about as much as Cole, and right now Cole is shooting better than Young did in his second year in the league. Hell is shooting better than Young this year. I don't see you calling Young a chucker.

For some reason many magic fans seem to suffer from some cognitive biases. In particular confirmation bias and anchoring. The reality is it seems like with some of you will always have negative impression of the man no matter what he does. You have anchored yourself to the impression that he is a "chucker" and that he is nothing more than a back up. When you are presented with data that shows that he has improved and is playing spectacular all you do is try to discount or ignore it. All the haters say " He is just a chucker", "how long will it last", or "he will regress back to the mean". Yeah except for one fact that the mean can move. Players can improve. Using last years mean is just silly. Will Cole Anthony cool off some? Most likely but that doesn't mean that he will go back to least years efficiency. Assuming that doesn't make sense. In fact most players make their biggest jump from year 1 to year 2. Also, don't forget that last years was not a traditional year for the league. Covid took away summer league and most of the pre-season last year. This may have skewed the performance of many of the players. He had a more traditional year this year and that most likely helped.


People are not pessimistic on Cole Anthony's future because he's a chucker. Not in the slightest. If he's able to shoot and score this efficiently over the course of a full season, he has a SIGNIFICANT role on any NBA team. Even if his efficiency drops off a little bit from where it is now, he still has plenty of paths to being a productive player on a good team.

What people are concerned with is that he doesn't seem like he's capable of doing much else at a high level beyond shoot/score.

-He is not a particularly good passer or capable of consistently making plays for other people
-He is not big or long enough to defend anything but PGs and he's not good at defending PGs either at the moment
-He isn't really capable of playing in an off the ball SG role full time because he looks vlost and uncomfortable when the ball isn't in his hands.

So what is he? Right now he's a shooting guard in a point guard's body who has to play point guard because of size and skill limitations, but with a shooting guard's mentality and game.

And the Trae Young comparison is a particularly bad one for a lot of reasons. Trae has his warts, but he is pretty clearly a plus playmaker. In fact, that's overwhelmingly his best overall skill.

If Anthony could pass and make plays for others as well as Trae can, he'd be a sure fire all-star.


I don't think it is fair to say that he is not good at anything else but scoring. He has shown him himself to be a very good rebounder, and he is not a bad passer. He is not a defensive stopper but isn't a traffic cone either. The team is better on both ends of the floor with him on the court.

I don't think it is fair to say that he isn't a good passer. You don't average over 5 assists a game as a bad passer. The reality is that the Magic run him more as a SG than as a PG. They need him to shoot more. But when you compare his numbers to a player like Trae Young and take into consideration the fact that Suggs is doing most of the setting up for the Magic, you see that his numbers aren't that bad. Young is a good comparison. In fact Young is worst defender by large margin as compared to Cole. Their Assist to Turnover ratios are in line with each other. Yes, Young's Assist % is higher than Cole's but Young has more responsibility in that area then Cole does. But that mean that Cole can't set people up.


I'm sure you've heard of Stephon Marbury and Jason Kidd. They were traded for each other once upon a time. Marbury had scored 24 ppg and made the All-Star team for a 26-56 New Jersey Nets team in the previous season. The very next year, they won 52 games and went to the NBA Finals with Kidd leading the team. Phoenix won 51 games in Kidd's last year there. After they acquired Marbury, they won 36 games in the subsequent season.

I get that people love anybody that comes along and scores a bunch of points, but teams don't win by accident. They win because they are good. They win because they are more efficient (offensively and defensively) than their opponents on a nightly basis. You always pay for guys that score a lot of points regardless of whether or not they actually win you games. When you look around the league, the best guys on the best teams are really good at things other than just scoring. Marbury scored many more points per game than did Steve Nash, but Steve Nash was a great offensive player. Marbury was not. Marbury's teams averaged 36 wins. Nash's teams averaged 53 wins. Marbury somehow earned more money in his NBA career than did Nash despite playing for five fewer seasons.

I'm going to have a difficult time liking anybody that can't defend. I'm going to have a difficult time liking anyone whose only real strength is volume scoring. If that bothers people... I don't know what to tell you. It certainly seems as though it bothers a lot of people on this forum.

Cole has shot the ball really well so far and he is scoring a lot of points. That's enough to win him fans and it's enough to make him a lot of money, but it's not yet nearly enough to make him a good player in this league. He is young. I'm not going to write him off at this point, but he has a long way to go as a facilitator and defender and I'm skeptical of his ceiling given where he currently is in those areas. If he continues to shoot the way he is, then there is certainly a place for him in this league regardless of whether or not that development comes. What we should be concerned with is what he will cost and whether or not he helps us win games. People are comparing him to McCollum now. Is that a good thing? Do people around here believe that paying CJ McCollum $30M per year is appealing? Would that be a good outcome for Anthony? Would our front office have the courage to let a Collin Sexton hit restricted free agency?

I'm not here to rain on anyone's parade. I'm not here to ruin anyone's enjoyment. I've watched a lot of basketball in my life and my interest in following this organization isn't to watch in awe as someone scores a bunch of points. I want to watch this franchise win games. This underpins every statement I make or question I ask.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#1392 » by The Real Dalic » Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:14 am

Xatticus wrote:
Bigmagicfan82 wrote:
Knightro wrote:
People are not pessimistic on Cole Anthony's future because he's a chucker. Not in the slightest. If he's able to shoot and score this efficiently over the course of a full season, he has a SIGNIFICANT role on any NBA team. Even if his efficiency drops off a little bit from where it is now, he still has plenty of paths to being a productive player on a good team.

What people are concerned with is that he doesn't seem like he's capable of doing much else at a high level beyond shoot/score.

-He is not a particularly good passer or capable of consistently making plays for other people
-He is not big or long enough to defend anything but PGs and he's not good at defending PGs either at the moment
-He isn't really capable of playing in an off the ball SG role full time because he looks vlost and uncomfortable when the ball isn't in his hands.

So what is he? Right now he's a shooting guard in a point guard's body who has to play point guard because of size and skill limitations, but with a shooting guard's mentality and game.

And the Trae Young comparison is a particularly bad one for a lot of reasons. Trae has his warts, but he is pretty clearly a plus playmaker. In fact, that's overwhelmingly his best overall skill.

If Anthony could pass and make plays for others as well as Trae can, he'd be a sure fire all-star.


I don't think it is fair to say that he is not good at anything else but scoring. He has shown him himself to be a very good rebounder, and he is not a bad passer. He is not a defensive stopper but isn't a traffic cone either. The team is better on both ends of the floor with him on the court.

I don't think it is fair to say that he isn't a good passer. You don't average over 5 assists a game as a bad passer. The reality is that the Magic run him more as a SG than as a PG. They need him to shoot more. But when you compare his numbers to a player like Trae Young and take into consideration the fact that Suggs is doing most of the setting up for the Magic, you see that his numbers aren't that bad. Young is a good comparison. In fact Young is worst defender by large margin as compared to Cole. Their Assist to Turnover ratios are in line with each other. Yes, Young's Assist % is higher than Cole's but Young has more responsibility in that area then Cole does. But that mean that Cole can't set people up.


I'm sure you've heard of Stephon Marbury and Jason Kidd. They were traded for each other once upon a time. Marbury had scored 24 ppg and made the All-Star team for a 26-56 New Jersey Nets team in the previous season. The very next year, they won 52 games and went to the NBA Finals with Kidd leading the team. Phoenix won 51 games in Kidd's last year there. After they acquired Marbury, they won 36 games in the subsequent season.

I get that people love anybody that comes along and scores a bunch of points, but teams don't win by accident. They win because they are good. They win because they are more efficient (offensively and defensively) than their opponents on a nightly basis. You always pay for guys that score a lot of points regardless of whether or not they actually win you games. When you look around the league, the best guys on the best teams are really good at things other than just scoring. Marbury scored many more points per game than did Steve Nash, but Steve Nash was a great offensive player. Marbury was not. Marbury's teams averaged 36 wins. Nash's teams averaged 53 wins. Marbury somehow earned more money in his NBA career than did Nash despite playing for five fewer seasons.

I'm going to have a difficult time liking anybody that can't defend. I'm going to have a difficult time liking anyone whose only real strength is volume scoring. If that bothers people... I don't know what to tell you. It certainly seems as though it bothers a lot of people on this forum.

Cole has shot the ball really well so far and he is scoring a lot of points. That's enough to win him fans and it's enough to make him a lot of money, but it's not yet nearly enough to make him a good player in this league. He is young. I'm not going to write him off at this point, but he has a long way to go as a facilitator and defender and I'm skeptical of his ceiling given where he currently is in those areas. If he continues to shoot the way he is, then there is certainly a place for him in this league regardless of whether or not that development comes. What we should be concerned with is what he will cost and whether or not he helps us win games. People are comparing him to McCollum now. Is that a good thing? Do people around here believe that paying CJ McCollum $30M per year is appealing? Would that be a good outcome for Anthony? Would our front office have the courage to let a Collin Sexton hit restricted free agency?

I'm not here to rain on anyone's parade. I'm not here to ruin anyone's enjoyment. I've watched a lot of basketball in my life and my interest in following this organization isn't to watch in awe as someone scores a bunch of points. I want to watch this franchise win games. This underpins every statement I make or question I ask.

But my question is, why is everyone crapping on Cole, who's been amazing and much better than RJ and Suggs? But are all over RJ and Suggs and saying they think they can be better than Cole when they haven't been as good as Cole? Especially in RJ's case.

People on this board like to argue and complain about the wrong things. Always going after the best players that are trying their best to win the team some games, while ignoring or excusing some insanely awful play from "their guys."

If Cole started out his first two years shooting and turning the ball over the way Suggs has so far, they'd be calling for Weltham's heads. That's just a fact.

RJ has been absolutely horrendous after everyone hyped him up all offseason and everyone still wants to focus on Cole. It makes no sense no matter how you try to justify it.

Just look at what happened with Vuc last year. The guy is one of the best players to ever play here and people were making fun of him and the Bulls and making sure to bring up every loss or flaw of his while he wasn't even on the team anymore.

People were also telling me that they were keeping track of the Bulls and their record for the pick, not to make fun of Vuc. A lot of you guys said that we'd be keeping tabs on the Nuggets this year as well since we have their pick. But I haven't seen the roasting of AG or even mentions of him or the Nuggets so far this season outside of positives.

I've seen the usual suspect already bring up Vuc's stats though.

This fan base loves to pick someone to hate irrationally and complain all day long about it. Cole's the next one up, unfortunately.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#1393 » by Knightro » Wed Nov 10, 2021 2:50 pm

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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#1394 » by MagicMatic » Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:51 pm

The Real Dalic wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
Bigmagicfan82 wrote:
I don't think it is fair to say that he is not good at anything else but scoring. He has shown him himself to be a very good rebounder, and he is not a bad passer. He is not a defensive stopper but isn't a traffic cone either. The team is better on both ends of the floor with him on the court.

I don't think it is fair to say that he isn't a good passer. You don't average over 5 assists a game as a bad passer. The reality is that the Magic run him more as a SG than as a PG. They need him to shoot more. But when you compare his numbers to a player like Trae Young and take into consideration the fact that Suggs is doing most of the setting up for the Magic, you see that his numbers aren't that bad. Young is a good comparison. In fact Young is worst defender by large margin as compared to Cole. Their Assist to Turnover ratios are in line with each other. Yes, Young's Assist % is higher than Cole's but Young has more responsibility in that area then Cole does. But that mean that Cole can't set people up.


I'm sure you've heard of Stephon Marbury and Jason Kidd. They were traded for each other once upon a time. Marbury had scored 24 ppg and made the All-Star team for a 26-56 New Jersey Nets team in the previous season. The very next year, they won 52 games and went to the NBA Finals with Kidd leading the team. Phoenix won 51 games in Kidd's last year there. After they acquired Marbury, they won 36 games in the subsequent season.

I get that people love anybody that comes along and scores a bunch of points, but teams don't win by accident. They win because they are good. They win because they are more efficient (offensively and defensively) than their opponents on a nightly basis. You always pay for guys that score a lot of points regardless of whether or not they actually win you games. When you look around the league, the best guys on the best teams are really good at things other than just scoring. Marbury scored many more points per game than did Steve Nash, but Steve Nash was a great offensive player. Marbury was not. Marbury's teams averaged 36 wins. Nash's teams averaged 53 wins. Marbury somehow earned more money in his NBA career than did Nash despite playing for five fewer seasons.

I'm going to have a difficult time liking anybody that can't defend. I'm going to have a difficult time liking anyone whose only real strength is volume scoring. If that bothers people... I don't know what to tell you. It certainly seems as though it bothers a lot of people on this forum.

Cole has shot the ball really well so far and he is scoring a lot of points. That's enough to win him fans and it's enough to make him a lot of money, but it's not yet nearly enough to make him a good player in this league. He is young. I'm not going to write him off at this point, but he has a long way to go as a facilitator and defender and I'm skeptical of his ceiling given where he currently is in those areas. If he continues to shoot the way he is, then there is certainly a place for him in this league regardless of whether or not that development comes. What we should be concerned with is what he will cost and whether or not he helps us win games. People are comparing him to McCollum now. Is that a good thing? Do people around here believe that paying CJ McCollum $30M per year is appealing? Would that be a good outcome for Anthony? Would our front office have the courage to let a Collin Sexton hit restricted free agency?

I'm not here to rain on anyone's parade. I'm not here to ruin anyone's enjoyment. I've watched a lot of basketball in my life and my interest in following this organization isn't to watch in awe as someone scores a bunch of points. I want to watch this franchise win games. This underpins every statement I make or question I ask.

But my question is, why is everyone crapping on Cole, who's been amazing and much better than RJ and Suggs? But are all over RJ and Suggs and saying they think they can be better than Cole when they haven't been as good as Cole? Especially in RJ's case.

People on this board like to argue and complain about the wrong things. Always going after the best players that are trying their best to win the team some games, while ignoring or excusing some insanely awful play from "their guys."

If Cole started out his first two years shooting and turning the ball over the way Suggs has so far, they'd be calling for Weltham's heads. That's just a fact.

RJ has been absolutely horrendous after everyone hyped him up all offseason and everyone still wants to focus on Cole. It makes no sense no matter how you try to justify it.

Just look at what happened with Vuc last year. The guy is one of the best players to ever play here and people were making fun of him and the Bulls and making sure to bring up every loss or flaw of his while he wasn't even on the team anymore.

People were also telling me that they were keeping track of the Bulls and their record for the pick, not to make fun of Vuc. A lot of you guys said that we'd be keeping tabs on the Nuggets this year as well since we have their pick. But I haven't seen the roasting of AG or even mentions of him or the Nuggets so far this season outside of positives.

I've seen the usual suspect already bring up Vuc's stats though.

This fan base loves to pick someone to hate irrationally and complain all day long about it. Cole's the next one up, unfortunately.


Respectfully, no.

This is the difference between being a fan of players specifically as opposed to being a fan of a teams success.

Players can put up empty numbers on bad teams. It’s situation dependent. Vucevic has his flaws and so does Cole. That doesn’t mean they both couldn’t put up numbers on rosters lacking offensively. Kevin Love on the Timberwolves looked like an unstoppable force in his first few seasons didn’t he?

Your Suggs example doesn’t make sense. Nobody serious expects rookies to put it all together a handful of games into the season. If they do… then great! It still isn’t a benchmark for all players comparatively.

To be honest, I don’t know why people care about Vuc or AG anymore. Their situations are vastly different than when they were in Orlando. They’re now playing as the 4th or 5th options they always realistically were.

Nobody is “crapping” on Cole. He’s filling a void right now and getting the Magic talked about in the media. GOOD.
I think people are mistaking cautious optimism for scathing criticism on a forum. There are definitely valid concerns about Anthonys game despite being able to score on volume. That was never in question. He won’t be getting the same level of criticism until he signs an outrageous contract and we can look at Orlando’s record.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#1395 » by Def Swami » Wed Nov 10, 2021 9:53 pm

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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#1396 » by The Real Dalic » Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:44 am

MagicMatic wrote:
The Real Dalic wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
I'm sure you've heard of Stephon Marbury and Jason Kidd. They were traded for each other once upon a time. Marbury had scored 24 ppg and made the All-Star team for a 26-56 New Jersey Nets team in the previous season. The very next year, they won 52 games and went to the NBA Finals with Kidd leading the team. Phoenix won 51 games in Kidd's last year there. After they acquired Marbury, they won 36 games in the subsequent season.

I get that people love anybody that comes along and scores a bunch of points, but teams don't win by accident. They win because they are good. They win because they are more efficient (offensively and defensively) than their opponents on a nightly basis. You always pay for guys that score a lot of points regardless of whether or not they actually win you games. When you look around the league, the best guys on the best teams are really good at things other than just scoring. Marbury scored many more points per game than did Steve Nash, but Steve Nash was a great offensive player. Marbury was not. Marbury's teams averaged 36 wins. Nash's teams averaged 53 wins. Marbury somehow earned more money in his NBA career than did Nash despite playing for five fewer seasons.

I'm going to have a difficult time liking anybody that can't defend. I'm going to have a difficult time liking anyone whose only real strength is volume scoring. If that bothers people... I don't know what to tell you. It certainly seems as though it bothers a lot of people on this forum.

Cole has shot the ball really well so far and he is scoring a lot of points. That's enough to win him fans and it's enough to make him a lot of money, but it's not yet nearly enough to make him a good player in this league. He is young. I'm not going to write him off at this point, but he has a long way to go as a facilitator and defender and I'm skeptical of his ceiling given where he currently is in those areas. If he continues to shoot the way he is, then there is certainly a place for him in this league regardless of whether or not that development comes. What we should be concerned with is what he will cost and whether or not he helps us win games. People are comparing him to McCollum now. Is that a good thing? Do people around here believe that paying CJ McCollum $30M per year is appealing? Would that be a good outcome for Anthony? Would our front office have the courage to let a Collin Sexton hit restricted free agency?

I'm not here to rain on anyone's parade. I'm not here to ruin anyone's enjoyment. I've watched a lot of basketball in my life and my interest in following this organization isn't to watch in awe as someone scores a bunch of points. I want to watch this franchise win games. This underpins every statement I make or question I ask.

But my question is, why is everyone crapping on Cole, who's been amazing and much better than RJ and Suggs? But are all over RJ and Suggs and saying they think they can be better than Cole when they haven't been as good as Cole? Especially in RJ's case.

People on this board like to argue and complain about the wrong things. Always going after the best players that are trying their best to win the team some games, while ignoring or excusing some insanely awful play from "their guys."

If Cole started out his first two years shooting and turning the ball over the way Suggs has so far, they'd be calling for Weltham's heads. That's just a fact.

RJ has been absolutely horrendous after everyone hyped him up all offseason and everyone still wants to focus on Cole. It makes no sense no matter how you try to justify it.

Just look at what happened with Vuc last year. The guy is one of the best players to ever play here and people were making fun of him and the Bulls and making sure to bring up every loss or flaw of his while he wasn't even on the team anymore.

People were also telling me that they were keeping track of the Bulls and their record for the pick, not to make fun of Vuc. A lot of you guys said that we'd be keeping tabs on the Nuggets this year as well since we have their pick. But I haven't seen the roasting of AG or even mentions of him or the Nuggets so far this season outside of positives.

I've seen the usual suspect already bring up Vuc's stats though.

This fan base loves to pick someone to hate irrationally and complain all day long about it. Cole's the next one up, unfortunately.


Respectfully, no.

This is the difference between being a fan of players specifically as opposed to being a fan of a teams success.

Players can put up empty numbers on bad teams. It’s situation dependent. Vucevic has his flaws and so does Cole. That doesn’t mean they both couldn’t put up numbers on rosters lacking offensively. Kevin Love on the Timberwolves looked like an unstoppable force in his first few seasons didn’t he?

Your Suggs example doesn’t make sense. Nobody serious expects rookies to put it all together a handful of games into the season. If they do… then great! It still isn’t a benchmark for all players comparatively.

To be honest, I don’t know why people care about Vuc or AG anymore. Their situations are vastly different than when they were in Orlando. They’re now playing as the 4th or 5th options they always realistically were.

Nobody is “crapping” on Cole. He’s filling a void right now and getting the Magic talked about in the media. GOOD.
I think people are mistaking cautious optimism for scathing criticism on a forum. There are definitely valid concerns about Anthonys game despite being able to score on volume. That was never in question. He won’t be getting the same level of criticism until he signs an outrageous contract and we can look at Orlando’s record.

He is getting crapped on. If RJ had started this season the way Anthony had, there would be nothing but loud applause for the kid. Rightfully so.

Vice versa, if Cole had the start RJ was having, they'd be roasting Weltham for wasting our pick on a scrub.

As for Jalen, I'm not even slightly worried about him at all. But the fact is that when Cole struggled at the start of the season last year, we had around half the board roasting him. Suggs is getting a benefit of the doubt that Cole would never get. He's shooting one of the worst percentages from a rookie I've ever seen. He's also turning it over a ton. Both expected as a rookie. But Cole would never get that benefit of the doubt.

Also, every player has flaws. Certainly every player on this roster as well. Cole's flaws are the only ones being brought up consistently though. Even though he's done far more good so far than bad.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#1397 » by Xatticus » Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:18 am

The Real Dalic wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
The Real Dalic wrote:But my question is, why is everyone crapping on Cole, who's been amazing and much better than RJ and Suggs? But are all over RJ and Suggs and saying they think they can be better than Cole when they haven't been as good as Cole? Especially in RJ's case.

People on this board like to argue and complain about the wrong things. Always going after the best players that are trying their best to win the team some games, while ignoring or excusing some insanely awful play from "their guys."

If Cole started out his first two years shooting and turning the ball over the way Suggs has so far, they'd be calling for Weltham's heads. That's just a fact.

RJ has been absolutely horrendous after everyone hyped him up all offseason and everyone still wants to focus on Cole. It makes no sense no matter how you try to justify it.

Just look at what happened with Vuc last year. The guy is one of the best players to ever play here and people were making fun of him and the Bulls and making sure to bring up every loss or flaw of his while he wasn't even on the team anymore.

People were also telling me that they were keeping track of the Bulls and their record for the pick, not to make fun of Vuc. A lot of you guys said that we'd be keeping tabs on the Nuggets this year as well since we have their pick. But I haven't seen the roasting of AG or even mentions of him or the Nuggets so far this season outside of positives.

I've seen the usual suspect already bring up Vuc's stats though.

This fan base loves to pick someone to hate irrationally and complain all day long about it. Cole's the next one up, unfortunately.


Respectfully, no.

This is the difference between being a fan of players specifically as opposed to being a fan of a teams success.

Players can put up empty numbers on bad teams. It’s situation dependent. Vucevic has his flaws and so does Cole. That doesn’t mean they both couldn’t put up numbers on rosters lacking offensively. Kevin Love on the Timberwolves looked like an unstoppable force in his first few seasons didn’t he?

Your Suggs example doesn’t make sense. Nobody serious expects rookies to put it all together a handful of games into the season. If they do… then great! It still isn’t a benchmark for all players comparatively.

To be honest, I don’t know why people care about Vuc or AG anymore. Their situations are vastly different than when they were in Orlando. They’re now playing as the 4th or 5th options they always realistically were.

Nobody is “crapping” on Cole. He’s filling a void right now and getting the Magic talked about in the media. GOOD.
I think people are mistaking cautious optimism for scathing criticism on a forum. There are definitely valid concerns about Anthonys game despite being able to score on volume. That was never in question. He won’t be getting the same level of criticism until he signs an outrageous contract and we can look at Orlando’s record.

He is getting crapped on. If RJ had started this season the way Anthony had, there would be nothing but loud applause for the kid. Rightfully so.

Vice versa, if Cole had the start RJ was having, they'd be roasting Weltham for wasting our pick on a scrub.

As for Jalen, I'm not even slightly worried about him at all. But the fact is that when Cole struggled at the start of the season last year, we had around half the board roasting him. Suggs is getting a benefit of the doubt that Cole would never get. He's shooting one of the worst percentages from a rookie I've ever seen. He's also turning it over a ton. Both expected as a rookie. But Cole would never get that benefit of the doubt.

Also, every player has flaws. Certainly every player on this roster as well. Cole's flaws are the only ones being brought up consistently though. Even though he's done far more good so far than bad.


This is just tribalism. You're claiming that nobody else is facing the same criticism, when in fact they are. Just read the game threads. The difference is that some go on the offensive in defense of their guys. That's why you end up with these long debates. When someone says Hampton is playing like ****, nobody cares and it dies right there.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#1398 » by The Real Dalic » Thu Nov 11, 2021 5:36 am

Xatticus wrote:
The Real Dalic wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
Respectfully, no.

This is the difference between being a fan of players specifically as opposed to being a fan of a teams success.

Players can put up empty numbers on bad teams. It’s situation dependent. Vucevic has his flaws and so does Cole. That doesn’t mean they both couldn’t put up numbers on rosters lacking offensively. Kevin Love on the Timberwolves looked like an unstoppable force in his first few seasons didn’t he?

Your Suggs example doesn’t make sense. Nobody serious expects rookies to put it all together a handful of games into the season. If they do… then great! It still isn’t a benchmark for all players comparatively.

To be honest, I don’t know why people care about Vuc or AG anymore. Their situations are vastly different than when they were in Orlando. They’re now playing as the 4th or 5th options they always realistically were.

Nobody is “crapping” on Cole. He’s filling a void right now and getting the Magic talked about in the media. GOOD.
I think people are mistaking cautious optimism for scathing criticism on a forum. There are definitely valid concerns about Anthonys game despite being able to score on volume. That was never in question. He won’t be getting the same level of criticism until he signs an outrageous contract and we can look at Orlando’s record.

He is getting crapped on. If RJ had started this season the way Anthony had, there would be nothing but loud applause for the kid. Rightfully so.

Vice versa, if Cole had the start RJ was having, they'd be roasting Weltham for wasting our pick on a scrub.

As for Jalen, I'm not even slightly worried about him at all. But the fact is that when Cole struggled at the start of the season last year, we had around half the board roasting him. Suggs is getting a benefit of the doubt that Cole would never get. He's shooting one of the worst percentages from a rookie I've ever seen. He's also turning it over a ton. Both expected as a rookie. But Cole would never get that benefit of the doubt.

Also, every player has flaws. Certainly every player on this roster as well. Cole's flaws are the only ones being brought up consistently though. Even though he's done far more good so far than bad.


This is just tribalism. You're claiming that nobody else is facing the same criticism, when in fact they are. Just read the game threads. The difference is that some go on the offensive in defense of their guys. That's why you end up with these long debates. When someone says Hampton is playing like ****, nobody cares and it dies right there.

Because he is playing like ****. Period. Cole isn't. Period. Get out of here with that weak argument.

Yes, players playing badly are open for criticism. Players playing well should be criticized less, not the same or more than other players.

I will always defend our players getting unfairly criticized. I did it with Vuc and Afflalo, I'll continue to do it with anyone else that's playing well.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#1399 » by swarlesbarkley » Thu Nov 11, 2021 5:52 pm

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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#1400 » by The Effect » Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:17 pm

The Real Dalic wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
The Real Dalic wrote:He is getting crapped on. If RJ had started this season the way Anthony had, there would be nothing but loud applause for the kid. Rightfully so.

Vice versa, if Cole had the start RJ was having, they'd be roasting Weltham for wasting our pick on a scrub.

As for Jalen, I'm not even slightly worried about him at all. But the fact is that when Cole struggled at the start of the season last year, we had around half the board roasting him. Suggs is getting a benefit of the doubt that Cole would never get. He's shooting one of the worst percentages from a rookie I've ever seen. He's also turning it over a ton. Both expected as a rookie. But Cole would never get that benefit of the doubt.

Also, every player has flaws. Certainly every player on this roster as well. Cole's flaws are the only ones being brought up consistently though. Even though he's done far more good so far than bad.


This is just tribalism. You're claiming that nobody else is facing the same criticism, when in fact they are. Just read the game threads. The difference is that some go on the offensive in defense of their guys. That's why you end up with these long debates. When someone says Hampton is playing like ****, nobody cares and it dies right there.

Because he is playing like ****. Period. Cole isn't. Period. Get out of here with that weak argument.

Yes, players playing badly are open for criticism. Players playing well should be criticized less, not the same or more than other players.

I will always defend our players getting unfairly criticized. I did it with Vuc and Afflalo, I'll continue to do it with anyone else that's playing well.


it really is hilarious
I stand by my belief that if suggs was doing exactly what Cole is doing, this board would be hyping him as the next Dame or even the next Luka.
But with Cole, even when he has a good game people will find a way to bash him (they didnt like his interview or he didnt pass enough etc).
And to make matters even worse, they will do in the guise of "critical thinking", as if they are so brilliant and they can see something no one else can see

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