Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15

[Bensational]

He is getting crapped on. If RJ had started this season the way Anthony had, there would be nothing but loud applause for the kid. Rightfully so.

Vice versa, if Cole had the start RJ was having, they'd be roasting Weltham for wasting our pick on a scrub.

As for Jalen, I'm not even slightly worried about him at all. But the fact is that when Cole struggled at the start of the season last year, we had around half the board roasting him. Suggs is getting a benefit of the doubt that Cole would never get. He's shooting one of the worst percentages from a rookie I've ever seen. He's also turning it over a ton. Both expected as a rookie. But Cole would never get that benefit of the doubt.

Also, every player has flaws. Certainly every player on this roster as well. Cole's flaws are the only ones being brought up consistently though. Even though he's done far more good so far than bad.

This is just tribalism. You're claiming that nobody else is facing the same criticism, when in fact they are. Just read the game threads. The difference is that some go on the offensive in defense of their guys. That's why you end up with these long debates. When someone says Hampton is playing like ****, nobody cares and it dies right there.

Because he is playing like ****. Period. Cole isn't. Period. Get out of here with that weak argument.

Yes, players playing badly are open for criticism. Players playing well should be criticized less, not the same or more than other players.

I will always defend our players getting unfairly criticized. I did it with Vuc and Afflalo, I'll continue to do it with anyone else that's playing well.

A lot of the Vuc conflict came from people like you who overrated and overhyped him and weren’t open to a fair evaluation of him. Look at him now on a team with other legit scoring options - he’s no longer looking like a central guy for a team, just a good 3rd option. But an appraisal like that was always met with “but he’s the best on our team so we should regard him as a franchise guy!”

You’re just setting Cole up as the replacement for that guy now and shouting down criticisms in a ranking season when we want to be studying and evaluating our guys. There’s no ‘hate’ on Cole, just a few voices saying “don’t believe the hype” and you seem to be allowing that to rain on the parade of your own opinion.

[The Effect]

This is just tribalism. You're claiming that nobody else is facing the same criticism, when in fact they are. Just read the game threads. The difference is that some go on the offensive in defense of their guys. That's why you end up with these long debates. When someone says Hampton is playing like ****, nobody cares and it dies right there.

Because he is playing like ****. Period. Cole isn't. Period. Get out of here with that weak argument.

Yes, players playing badly are open for criticism. Players playing well should be criticized less, not the same or more than other players.

I will always defend our players getting unfairly criticized. I did it with Vuc and Afflalo, I'll continue to do it with anyone else that's playing well.

A lot of the Vuc conflict came from people like you who overrated and overhyped him and weren’t open to a fair evaluation of him. Look at him now on a team with other legit scoring options - he’s no longer looking like a central guy for a team, just a good 3rd option. But an appraisal like that was always met with “but he’s the best on our team so we should regard him as a franchise guy!”

You’re just setting Cole up as the replacement for that guy now and shouting down criticisms in a ranking season when we want to be studying and evaluating our guys. There’s no ‘hate’ on Cole, just a few voices saying “don’t believe the hype” and you seem to be allowing that to rain on the parade of your own opinion.

You dont think "dont believe the hype" is hating?
Basically what youre saying is, hes not good, dont believe it, its all luck

[Xatticus]

Because he is playing like ****. Period. Cole isn't. Period. Get out of here with that weak argument.

Yes, players playing badly are open for criticism. Players playing well should be criticized less, not the same or more than other players.

I will always defend our players getting unfairly criticized. I did it with Vuc and Afflalo, I'll continue to do it with anyone else that's playing well.

A lot of the Vuc conflict came from people like you who overrated and overhyped him and weren’t open to a fair evaluation of him. Look at him now on a team with other legit scoring options - he’s no longer looking like a central guy for a team, just a good 3rd option. But an appraisal like that was always met with “but he’s the best on our team so we should regard him as a franchise guy!”

You’re just setting Cole up as the replacement for that guy now and shouting down criticisms in a ranking season when we want to be studying and evaluating our guys. There’s no ‘hate’ on Cole, just a few voices saying “don’t believe the hype” and you seem to be allowing that to rain on the parade of your own opinion.

You dont think "dont believe the hype" is hating?
Basically what youre saying is, hes not good, dont believe it, its all luck

That's called a straw man argument and this is just such a dumb **** conversation.

This forum doesn't need school spirit hall monitors.

I try not to demean people and if the conversation gets dumb I just switch it off. I just hate how people keep throwing all the stuff I've been right about back in my face because it makes me feel pompous.

[The Real Dalic]

This is just tribalism. You're claiming that nobody else is facing the same criticism, when in fact they are. Just read the game threads. The difference is that some go on the offensive in defense of their guys. That's why you end up with these long debates. When someone says Hampton is playing like ****, nobody cares and it dies right there.

Because he is playing like ****. Period. Cole isn't. Period. Get out of here with that weak argument.

Yes, players playing badly are open for criticism. Players playing well should be criticized less, not the same or more than other players.

I will always defend our players getting unfairly criticized. I did it with Vuc and Afflalo, I'll continue to do it with anyone else that's playing well.

A lot of the Vuc conflict came from people like you who overrated and overhyped him and weren’t open to a fair evaluation of him. Look at him now on a team with other legit scoring options - he’s no longer looking like a central guy for a team, just a good 3rd option. But an appraisal like that was always met with “but he’s the best on our team so we should regard him as a franchise guy!”

You’re just setting Cole up as the replacement for that guy now and shouting down criticisms in a ranking season when we want to be studying and evaluating our guys. There’s no ‘hate’ on Cole, just a few voices saying “don’t believe the hype” and you seem to be allowing that to rain on the parade of your own opinion.

I never overrated Vuc. We all knew who he was. The only thing I ever said was that he was the best player on this team and that everyone put all of this franchises failure squarely on his shoulders.

All, not even a lot, but ALL the Vuc conflict came from his opposition. They're the ones that kept calling him a bum while he tried his best to win this team some games. We have people to this day that still laugh at his statline.

He was the best player on this team. Fact. You guys put a hell of a lot of the blame on him. Also a fact.

This team wasn't and isn't bad due to Cole or Vuc. They're bad for many different reasons.

Edit: I also never saw anyone call Vuc a Franchise guy. Way to make something up to make your argument better.

Also no, I'm not letting that rain on my parade. I love Cole and was one of the few that celebrated drafting him last year while everyone cried about it the way some did with Franz. I'm enjoying him seeing some success individually. Hopefully the rest of the team follows suit.

His success seems to be raining on certain posters parade though. Since no one around here likes to admit they're wrong.

In before someone mentions team record when I say Cole is seeing some success. Everyone should know what I mean by that, but some will probably choose to ignore it to make a point.

[The Real Dalic]

Because he is playing like ****. Period. Cole isn't. Period. Get out of here with that weak argument.

Yes, players playing badly are open for criticism. Players playing well should be criticized less, not the same or more than other players.

I will always defend our players getting unfairly criticized. I did it with Vuc and Afflalo, I'll continue to do it with anyone else that's playing well.

A lot of the Vuc conflict came from people like you who overrated and overhyped him and weren’t open to a fair evaluation of him. Look at him now on a team with other legit scoring options - he’s no longer looking like a central guy for a team, just a good 3rd option. But an appraisal like that was always met with “but he’s the best on our team so we should regard him as a franchise guy!”

You’re just setting Cole up as the replacement for that guy now and shouting down criticisms in a ranking season when we want to be studying and evaluating our guys. There’s no ‘hate’ on Cole, just a few voices saying “don’t believe the hype” and you seem to be allowing that to rain on the parade of your own opinion.

You dont think "dont believe the hype" is hating?
Basically what youre saying is, hes not good, dont believe it, its all luck

True. But if we said the same thing about Suggs, watch as they say we're "overreacting" and "hating."

Which I'm not saying, btw. I still love Suggs and think he has the chance to be an All-Star.

[drsd]

I wonder how some of you would react if we had Trae Young on this team. He is shorter than Cole, shoots about as much as Cole, and right now Cole is shooting better than Young did in his second year in the league. Hell is shooting better than Young this year. I don't see you calling Young a chucker.

For some reason many magic fans seem to suffer from some cognitive biases. In particular confirmation bias and anchoring.

Half of RealGM-fans appear to be unvaccinated based on support of Isaac's ignorance to facts, and spew of ignorance that emerged from that. And I suspect there Are quite a few "Stop the Steal" and less "Big Lie" types here. So why are you surprised?

The reality is it seems like with some of you will always have negative impression of the man no matter what he does. You have anchored yourself to the impression that he is a "chucker" and that he is nothing more than a back up. When you are presented with data that shows that he has improved and is playing spectacular all you do is try to discount or ignore it. All the haters say " He is just a chucker", "how long will it last", or "he will regress back to the mean". Yeah except for one fact that the mean can move. Players can improve. Using last years mean is just silly. Will Cole Anthony cool off some? Most likely but that doesn't mean that he will go back to least years efficiency. Assuming that doesn't make sense. In fact most players make their biggest jump from year 1 to year 2. Also, don't forget that last years was not a traditional year for the league. Covid took away summer league and most of the pre-season last year. This may have skewed the performance of many of the players. He had a more traditional year this year and that most likely helped.

On a bad team, Anthony has the 15th best PER for PGs in the NBA. He is clearly a starting-quality lead guard. All stats support that. (Indeed one would wonder how he would look if there was "some" bench competence for Orlando).

Anthony today is statistically a better lead guard than Dinwiddie, Haliburton, Lillard (wow), Garland, Walker, Fox, Holiday, Westbrook, Beverley, Lowry, LoBall, Payne, Russell, and many others.

He is basically the same as Gilgeous-Alexander this season. And that is a max-contract player.


And as a final conclusion: as for the "Chucker" moniker, Cole Anthony is 4th amongst all PGs in made 3-balls per game. He is shooting 39% on a high volume. All accurate players that also shoot in a high volume are valuable in today's game. My thought: chuck-away!


p.s. Hampton is shooting 43% with his three ball. He looks good to be Orlando's long-term solution at backup SG.


..

[pepe1991]

Objective difference between Trae Young and Cole Anthony is fact that one averages 4,3 assist a game for career, other averages double of it.
Cole is similar to Trae in many ways but if Trae is just volumen scorer who does not provide elite playmaking and isn't pretty much elite passer ( literally makes every big around him look that much better ) he would probably be bench player .


It's like arguing Kanter and Sabonis are identical. They aren't much of defender, elite post scorers, great rebounders....but Sabonis is versitale passer and opens floor for everybody, making people around him that much better.
Kanter, once he touches ball, only sees iron and net. Ghousting other teammates.


As for CURRENT Cole's stats, they are great. But do anybody, given what type of shots he takes, belives that he will be sitting at 59% TS, 40% for 3 when we are mid -way through a season? I hope not.

[Xatticus]

Because he is playing like ****. Period. Cole isn't. Period. Get out of here with that weak argument.

Yes, players playing badly are open for criticism. Players playing well should be criticized less, not the same or more than other players.

I will always defend our players getting unfairly criticized. I did it with Vuc and Afflalo, I'll continue to do it with anyone else that's playing well.

A lot of the Vuc conflict came from people like you who overrated and overhyped him and weren’t open to a fair evaluation of him. Look at him now on a team with other legit scoring options - he’s no longer looking like a central guy for a team, just a good 3rd option. But an appraisal like that was always met with “but he’s the best on our team so we should regard him as a franchise guy!”

You’re just setting Cole up as the replacement for that guy now and shouting down criticisms in a ranking season when we want to be studying and evaluating our guys. There’s no ‘hate’ on Cole, just a few voices saying “don’t believe the hype” and you seem to be allowing that to rain on the parade of your own opinion.

I never overrated Vuc. We all knew who he was. The only thing I ever said was that he was the best player on this team and that everyone put all of this franchises failure squarely on his shoulders.

All, not even a lot, but ALL the Vuc conflict came from his opposition. They're the ones that kept calling him a bum while he tried his best to win this team some games. We have people to this day that still laugh at his statline.

He was the best player on this team. Fact. You guys put a hell of a lot of the blame on him. Also a fact.

This team wasn't and isn't bad due to Cole or Vuc. They're bad for many different reasons.

Edit: I also never saw anyone call Vuc a Franchise guy. Way to make something up to make your argument better.

Also no, I'm not letting that rain on my parade. I love Cole and was one of the few that celebrated drafting him last year while everyone cried about it the way they some did with Franz. I'm enjoying him seeing some success individually. Hopefully the rest of the team follows suit.

His success seems to be raining on certain posters parade though. Since no one around here likes to admit they're wrong.

In before someone mentions team record when I say Cole is seeing some success. Everyone should know what I mean by that, but some will probably choose to ignore it to make a point.

Of course you overrated Vucevic. Of course you are overrating Anthony.

You are The Real Quixote, tilting at windmills to advance your noble cause.

I think you'd have an aneurysm if you heard the fans of other (far more successful) franchises critiquing players that are vastly superior to those you idolize and to anyone we have seen in an Orlando Magic uniform since the departure of Dwight Howard. Some folks just aren't content to watch dudes chase fame and fortune while their teams achieve nothing of consequence.

[Skin]

I think the bottom line is that Cole improving is a good thing for the Magic. Whether he is a long term centerpiece or boosting his trade value, that's where the Magic need to be smart in determining.

I didn't like the Cole or the Franz pick, but I already know... Franz is the type of player that contributes to winning basketball and I don't know about that with Cole. I'm not adverse to changing views on players as they develop. That's natural. Thankfully, they both are trending up!

[The Real Dalic]

A lot of the Vuc conflict came from people like you who overrated and overhyped him and weren’t open to a fair evaluation of him. Look at him now on a team with other legit scoring options - he’s no longer looking like a central guy for a team, just a good 3rd option. But an appraisal like that was always met with “but he’s the best on our team so we should regard him as a franchise guy!”

You’re just setting Cole up as the replacement for that guy now and shouting down criticisms in a ranking season when we want to be studying and evaluating our guys. There’s no ‘hate’ on Cole, just a few voices saying “don’t believe the hype” and you seem to be allowing that to rain on the parade of your own opinion.

I never overrated Vuc. We all knew who he was. The only thing I ever said was that he was the best player on this team and that everyone put all of this franchises failure squarely on his shoulders.

All, not even a lot, but ALL the Vuc conflict came from his opposition. They're the ones that kept calling him a bum while he tried his best to win this team some games. We have people to this day that still laugh at his statline.

He was the best player on this team. Fact. You guys put a hell of a lot of the blame on him. Also a fact.

This team wasn't and isn't bad due to Cole or Vuc. They're bad for many different reasons.

Edit: I also never saw anyone call Vuc a Franchise guy. Way to make something up to make your argument better.

Also no, I'm not letting that rain on my parade. I love Cole and was one of the few that celebrated drafting him last year while everyone cried about it the way they some did with Franz. I'm enjoying him seeing some success individually. Hopefully the rest of the team follows suit.

His success seems to be raining on certain posters parade though. Since no one around here likes to admit they're wrong.

In before someone mentions team record when I say Cole is seeing some success. Everyone should know what I mean by that, but some will probably choose to ignore it to make a point.

Of course you overrated Vucevic. Of course you are overrating Anthony.

You are The Real Quixote, tilting at windmills to advance your noble cause.

I think you'd have an aneurysm if you heard the fans of other (far more successful) franchises critiquing players that are vastly superior to those you idolize and to anyone we have seen in an Orlando Magic uniform since the departure of Dwight Howard. Some folks just aren't content to watch dudes chase fame and fortune while their teams achieve nothing of consequence.

Nice. Making fun of me and mocking me now. Thanks for this irrelevant post!

The most I've said was that Cole was currently the best player on a terrible Magic team and that he's been great to start the year and I'm "overrating him."

Some people just can't handle being called out on their hypocrisy and will turn to insulting on here now. Anything to be "right" around here.

Damn, the quality of posters here has certainly dropped over the past 4 or 5 years now.

Also, I want to watch this team succeed more than most. I'll happily be wrong about everything if it meant the Magic were better. What I won't do is blame a 21 year old player playing much improved basketball or an All-Star Center for playing their hearts out on the court every single game. It's illogical and irrational. In simpler terms, it's really stupid.

[Xatticus]

I never overrated Vuc. We all knew who he was. The only thing I ever said was that he was the best player on this team and that everyone put all of this franchises failure squarely on his shoulders.

All, not even a lot, but ALL the Vuc conflict came from his opposition. They're the ones that kept calling him a bum while he tried his best to win this team some games. We have people to this day that still laugh at his statline.

He was the best player on this team. Fact. You guys put a hell of a lot of the blame on him. Also a fact.

This team wasn't and isn't bad due to Cole or Vuc. They're bad for many different reasons.

Edit: I also never saw anyone call Vuc a Franchise guy. Way to make something up to make your argument better.

Also no, I'm not letting that rain on my parade. I love Cole and was one of the few that celebrated drafting him last year while everyone cried about it the way they some did with Franz. I'm enjoying him seeing some success individually. Hopefully the rest of the team follows suit.

His success seems to be raining on certain posters parade though. Since no one around here likes to admit they're wrong.

In before someone mentions team record when I say Cole is seeing some success. Everyone should know what I mean by that, but some will probably choose to ignore it to make a point.

Of course you overrated Vucevic. Of course you are overrating Anthony.

You are The Real Quixote, tilting at windmills to advance your noble cause.

I think you'd have an aneurysm if you heard the fans of other (far more successful) franchises critiquing players that are vastly superior to those you idolize and to anyone we have seen in an Orlando Magic uniform since the departure of Dwight Howard. Some folks just aren't content to watch dudes chase fame and fortune while their teams achieve nothing of consequence.

Nice. Making fun of me and mocking me now. Thanks for this irrelevant post!

The most I've said was that Cole was currently the best player on a terrible Magic team and that he's been great to start the year and I'm "overrating him."

Some people just can't handle being called out on their hypocrisy and will turn to insulting on here now. Anything to be "right" around here.

Damn, the quality of posters here has certainly dropped over the past 4 or 5 years now.

Also, I want to watch this team succeed more than most. I'll happily be wrong about everything if it meant the Magic were better. What I won't do is blame a 21 year old player playing much improved basketball or an All-Star Center for playing their hearts out on the court every single game. It's illogical and irrational. In simpler terms, it's really stupid.

So now you are the martyr, eh?

Look... we've all played basketball. We've all shared the floor with dudes that put themselves ahead of the team. Some people call that out. You lionize it. That's the totality of the difference here.

You won't call out a 21-year-old, but a 23-year-old is fair game, right?

Playing their hearts out every single game? Come on, dude. Is that a joke?

[The Real Dalic]

Of course you overrated Vucevic. Of course you are overrating Anthony.

You are The Real Quixote, tilting at windmills to advance your noble cause.

I think you'd have an aneurysm if you heard the fans of other (far more successful) franchises critiquing players that are vastly superior to those you idolize and to anyone we have seen in an Orlando Magic uniform since the departure of Dwight Howard. Some folks just aren't content to watch dudes chase fame and fortune while their teams achieve nothing of consequence.

Nice. Making fun of me and mocking me now. Thanks for this irrelevant post!

The most I've said was that Cole was currently the best player on a terrible Magic team and that he's been great to start the year and I'm "overrating him."

Some people just can't handle being called out on their hypocrisy and will turn to insulting on here now. Anything to be "right" around here.

Damn, the quality of posters here has certainly dropped over the past 4 or 5 years now.

Also, I want to watch this team succeed more than most. I'll happily be wrong about everything if it meant the Magic were better. What I won't do is blame a 21 year old player playing much improved basketball or an All-Star Center for playing their hearts out on the court every single game. It's illogical and irrational. In simpler terms, it's really stupid.

So now you are the martyr, eh?

Look... we've all played basketball. We've all shared the floor with dudes that put themselves ahead of the team. Some people call that out. You lionize it. That's the totality of the difference here.

You won't call out a 21-year-old, but a 23-year-old is fair game, right?

Playing their hearts out every single game? Come on, dude. Is that a joke?

I'm not sure why you have to get personal at all. I'm not a martyr, never said I was or acted like I was. Just called you out on something again and will continue to do so. I'm annoying like that. Keep mocking though.

That's where I wholeheartedly disagree. Everyone thinks that Cole plays for Cole. I disagree with that sentiment. He's aggressive and looks for his shot. But he's not Kobe out there.

On the Bamba thing. The difference is that I called him a lazy player, might have even called him a bum a few times, when he was playing lazy or like a bum. Cole has been playing at an All-Star level to start the year and you're still acting like he's a failure.

Have you seen me post anything negative about Bamba this year? How about during Skin's offseason thread when there was a poll about if people on this board were "haters" or "supporters" or whatever it was? I said I was a "super hater", if I remember correctly, but that I was hoping for his success. How about when I said Bamba was easily our best player through the first 4 games of the season?

I can do those things because I don't care if I'm right. I care if the Magic win. I'm not gonna lie and say I don't care what people on this board think of me, but I definitely don't care enough to wish failure on someone.

That has become a serious, and quite frankly, unbearable problem on these boards here the past few years. People just can't admit when they're wrong. I've been wrong so many times on here that I can't count. I try to own up to all the ones that I know I was wrong on.

[BadMofoPimp]

I can see an All-Star appearance in Coles future. Dude is legit and will get even better over the next few years.

[KillMonger]

Only thing i need him to do is improve his decision making, and take his defense and playmaking to another level.....he's so young, he has time to get there we just have to be patient as fans

[p0peye]

I can see an All-Star appearance in Coles future. Dude is legit and will get even better over the next few years.

Is he gonna prove us all wrong?

[zaymon]

I think you guys are missing the big picture. On most good teams wings are ball handlers and guards are scorers. You could be great passer as a guard but it can be better for the team to not use it that much. Maybe Anthony as a player is not that complete but for our team building it can have little consequence. I am not comparing players overall, but with regard to passing, Anthony is right around where Curry, Lillard and Mitchell were at his age, he is even better. Those are players who leverage their scoring into passing opportunities. There is nothing wrong with that if team can use it.

[VFX]

I think people are misconstruing what is being said here about Cole.

People are glad he’s able to be efficient in his role. I’d even venture to say that people are surprised he is putting it all together in his sophomore season despite the criticism of his game prior to the draft.

That being said, everything needs context. Cole is able to put up these numbers because (again) Orlando is lacking options that can score the basketball reliably.

Nobody faults him for stepping up and delivering on what he’s capable of doing. That’s why he was even drafted in the first place. He’s taking over where Vucevic left off, 16-20fga per game and being the focal point of an offense when Ross flips tails.

The difference now is that Orlando doesn’t have the vets and the team dynamic is actually interesting. There is plenty of opportunity for this young team to tell us which way they’re heading.

People need to look at this bigger picture when thinking about what this team wants to become, because the future is more important than the right now.

[Bensational]

In simple:

All agree - we’re happy to see Cole off to such a strong start and shooting so efficiently and making exciting plays.

All agree - we’d like to see him continue to improve.

We disagree - on how that should be achieved.

We disagree - some of us are slow to warm to the charm of Cole’s showmanship.

Summary - it’s all good. We’re still all supporting the team, and Cole, in our own ways.

[Rainwater]

Kinda shocked people think Cole Anthony is a starting level PG in this league. He is stat padding on a bad team, he is 6th man at best.

[BadMofoPimp]

I can see an All-Star appearance in Coles future. Dude is legit and will get even better over the next few years.

Is he gonna prove us all wrong?

Cole gonna provem all, all wrong!!!