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Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15

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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#321 » by Def Swami » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:36 pm

Nyce_1 wrote:Man, after a few days and nights sleep, and some youtube watching, I just can't get excited about this pick. I'll support him, 1000%, but I just don't see it off available tape. I'm looking forward to preseason games to see him with our guys. I hope he has a good camp and picks up some things quickly.

At best, I see backup PG.

p.s. Kira Lewis would've been

Kira Lewis going 2 picks before the Magic's selection will be a continued tradition of the Magic missing out on good players by a pick or two.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#322 » by zaymon » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:56 pm

Def Swami wrote:
Nyce_1 wrote:Man, after a few days and nights sleep, and some youtube watching, I just can't get excited about this pick. I'll support him, 1000%, but I just don't see it off available tape. I'm looking forward to preseason games to see him with our guys. I hope he has a good camp and picks up some things quickly.

At best, I see backup PG.

p.s. Kira Lewis would've been

Kira Lewis going 2 picks before the Magic's selection will be a continued tradition of the Magic missing out on good players by a pick or two.

I have a feeling this wont be the case this year. From Weltman comments it seems he was targeting Anthony. Lewis is not a dynamic scorer. I like Lewis but i dont think his ceiling is crazy high.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#323 » by PrimeThyme » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:06 pm

I just don't see the point in continually bringing up Cole's High school statline and accolades. It has no relevance considering he played a year of highly competitive College basketball && was a really bad player. If he was coming out of college or sat out last season, I could understand the reason for doing so but that wasn't the case.

There has been an infinite amount of all-world high school basketball players who amounted to nothing in college or the NBA. It's meaningless.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#324 » by zaymon » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:30 pm

PrimeThyme wrote:I just don't see the point in continually bringing up Cole's High school statline and accolades. It has no relevance considering he played a year of highly competitive College basketball && was a really bad player. If he was coming out of college or sat out last season, I could understand the reason for doing so but that wasn't the case.

There has been an infinite amount of all-world high school basketball players who amounted to nothing in college or the NBA. It's meaningless.

Well but the evaluation is a lot broader than one year in college. Even in the nba players change from season to season. Cole was bad as a lead ball handler, but he will not be this on our team. Not until he proves he can do it. Lets not pretend development arcs end after one year in college.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#325 » by yoyojw17 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:34 pm

tiderulz wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Bensational wrote:Lol, the only time Pepe has praise or compliments for other players is when he's using them in a comp to **** on our players. But if we suggest trading for that player he quickly finds a way to walk back anything positive he's said about that player.


lol i didn't post a word for like last 4 pages on this topic and i'm still getting qoutes :lol:

I think i just like players who know what they can't do and have strong negative feelings about players who use live games to try new things.
For example, if player is working on his pull up jumper shouldn't he try it at workouts instad of games before he is 100% comfortable with it?
Marucs Morris shot 6 pull up jumper a game while shooting 42% eFG from them, on same team Reggie Jackson was adding 5 more shots with same, miserable results. IT was 3 years ago. Spoiler alert, there was not point before or after that year where they were good pull up shooters. So logic question becomes: why shoot if you can't?

As far as Cole goes there are 2 major develomental things that have to happen to him in order to him to become anything more than backup:
1) playamking and having control of offsne, cutting turnovers, engaging teammates, trusting the pass and controling pace
2) shot efficiency, shot selection and understanding that there might be better alternatives from him taking bad shots

He has that strong attitude and mentality, and on positive note it's great thing for confidence, but on other side it's hard to teach player with such attitude and they tend to think they know everything already.
At college level his coach was non other than Roy Williams, guy who won over 800 college games in his life. Guy who did not have negative W-L record in last 17 years. Yet he could not control Cole as Cole was highjacking offense.
Granted, North Carolina roster was NOT good, but once again, it's not excuse for player to take terrible shots and play heroball.

Most people like Trae Young, and granted he had smooth transition in NBA, but you can't tell me that him shooting 40 footers for no reason will ever work in playoffs. It won't. It's complete waste of possession and does nothing for offense, offensive rythm or team spirit. If anything, it just makes his teammates that much angrier on him because he just took 10 of last 15 shots and now he is hoisting shots from half court and he is expecting them to bail his little *** on defense? I don't think so. Lillard is AMAZING scorer, he basically never did jack **** in playoffs because of similar attitude.
During Lillard era Blazers passed first round of playoffs grand total of TWO times. Witch means Jokic and Murray who are like 24 years old, already brought more sucess to their team than " amazing Dame time, show stopper Lillard" ever did. Why? Well, they DON'T pretend basketball is NBA 2K, they know wide open corner 3 from Jeremy Grant and contested half court shot have same base value 3 points. One just has 42% chance of going in, other has 30% . And there is nothing to gain but some 13 years old boy yelling Dame time at screen and some ESPN moron wetting his pants. 3 days later Dame time is over and Lilard goes home after first round. Slow motion Jokic is playing second round :dontknow:

Kawhi is best example of player who is as boring as it gets yet one of most effective players. Good basketball should be boring, it should be cerebral, it should be movment with purpose, it should be picking defense,reading what they offer and reacting. In NBA half of the teams don't even know how to execute proper half court set. It's laughable how poor some teams are because of it in playoffs. We had professional nba team that didn't know how to play against zone month and half ago. :crazy:

as you mentioned, his coach was Roy Williams. if he was really "hijacking" an offense, do you not believe Williams would have yanked his butt and sat him? He has had no problem doing that throughout his career, why would he balk at that now? its not like that team was winning so much he wouldm't be afraid to do it and risk losing. Since he didnt, that tells me the coaches had given him a green light. And by all means, he is a smart kid, son of a smart former NBA guard, still young enough to learn from coaches. I want to see him healthy before assuming he will only play selfish and inefficient



"I truly enjoyed coaching Cole this year and it will be fun to watch him play in the NBA," says UNC head coach Roy Williams. "It was unfortunate for Cole and our team that he missed those 11 games due to injury. He had some spectacular moments as a Tar Heel and showed the potential I feel will make him very successful in the NBA. He has our complete support going forward and I will be one of his biggest fans. It was a pleasure to coach him, and getting to know his family was fantastic, as well. He loves the game of basketball as much as any player I've ever coached and he will continue striving to be the absolute best player he can be. He will always be a Tar Heel."


https://goheels.com/news/2020/4/17/mens-basketball-cole-anthony-declares-for-nba-draft.aspx

they were having a winning season to start... he gets injured and his absence was obvious. Coming back after the injury ended up shooting him in the foot... but he did it cuz he felt like he owed them his best.... and he was just not able to hold up the team anymore... they had some close games.... 5 or so games decided by 2 or less points.

I don't think he was a chucker by choice.... he was a chucker by necessity cuz no one else on the team wanted to take the shot. The next two best scorers on the team were a junior big and a senior guard that were possibly bench players the years prior. Outside of Cole... this was probably also William's weakest team... Cole went down with the injury and so did the season.

The guy is not a straight numbers chaser.... cuz it looks like he's done it all. Been primary scorer in certain cases.... or averaged around a triple double with reduced scoring in his senior season. Seems like he did what he did for the team to win.

His attitude... is the winning type of attitude. And the emotions show. He LOVES the game and puts winning over everything.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#326 » by Bakomagic » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:40 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
J_Magic wrote:Lets be honest please everyone. You do not go to game or watch them to see boring basketball.

Having the fundamentals is great, but fans want to see the show men play. You have to play an entertaining effective style to get fans in the seats and sponsors.
Key word is effective.


That's why Spurs won 5 titles with Duncan and Steve Francis and Tracy McGrady led teams never found out what happends after first round of playoffs :dontknow:


Manu was as flashy as can be. Loved watching him play
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#327 » by Nyce_1 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:43 pm

zaymon wrote:
Nyce_1 wrote:
zaymon wrote:I also had Lewis a bit higher but you cant deny Cole is better shooter, especially off the dribble but also off movement. He is more dynamic ball handler and vertical finisher.
Lewis has quicker first step ( we will see how good is cole after comimg back from injury), and a better decision maker.
On defense Cole is stronger and more versatile defender. Both are smart, lewis maybe better technique.
Anthony falling from top 5 to top15 could be a blessing for him. He is now humbled and spoke already about fixing his decision making.
Lewis was a better college player but i am not so sure he will be better nba player.

Ps. Its like worse versions of Fox vs Lillard
I agree with your offensive comparison to each other. Defense, goes out the window; different ball game now.

I hope Cole does well for us. Looking forward to his year 2 here. I don't think the rookies will get a lot of burn (if we stay healthy). More importantly, I hope HE stays healthy.

Maybe i am naive but i think Okeke and Cole will get a lot of burn. Cliff started Fultz even when he was actively hurting our offense. We just didnt resigned Dj, who will space for us ?
We resigned a bunch of good veterans on minimal deals, do you think Cliff will hesitate to bench Ennis when Okeke shoots 38 % from 3 ? He didnt hesitate with benching Dj and removing Birch and Aminu from rotation.
Good point about Kelle starting early. It all depends on how well and quickly they can grasp our concepts.

I love to watch young players develop. Hopefully they earn a chance to so early on.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#328 » by Knightro » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:54 pm

PrimeThyme wrote:I just don't see the point in continually bringing up Cole's High school statline and accolades. It has no relevance considering he played a year of highly competitive College basketball && was a really bad player. If he was coming out of college or sat out last season, I could understand the reason for doing so but that wasn't the case.

There has been an infinite amount of all-world high school basketball players who amounted to nothing in college or the NBA. It's meaningless.


Yes and no.

I do agree overall performance as a player should definitely skew more towards their most recent level of play.

But specific statistical trends, namely shooting percentages, should probably be looked at over a wider scale since they can fluctuate somewhat significantly year-to-year.

You look at a guy like Bradley Beal. He obviously has a beautiful form on his jumper and he shot something like 49% from 3PT as a high school senior. That number dipped below 34% in his one year in college and then was back up to 38% as an NBA rookie and over 40% in year 2 and 3. The blip in college was the anomaly and not the start of a downward trend.

Cole Anthony and Tyrese Maxey were both guys who shot the ball much better in high school, in AAU ball and on the all-star circut than they did in college.

Was college the anomaly or a sign that they actually can't shoot?

I'm certainly not convinced Anthony is going to become a great finisher, but just based off his jumper form and his history of making shots, I think he'll be a solid/good NBA shooter.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#329 » by 3ddman23 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:13 pm

Here is the thing that I dont get ,i understand he was underwhelming his 1 year but if he would have sat out the rest of the season after his injury( ala porter jr) and the magic still picked him at 15 people would be raving about how they where able to get a top 5 pick at 15(ala porter jr).

But since he came back from Injury( probalaly to fast) instead of taking the easy way out and struggled on a dreadful unc team( whom had went 3-8 while he was out) everyone is up in arms about how bad of a pick it is.

The kid was regarded as the best pg in the country try going into the college season for a reason. He has talent, lets not act like he doesn't. The main issue is his shoot selection and decision making which are things that can be worked on.

Let him play, let him work thru these issues he has. What do we have to lose this team is garbage and is desperate need of talent. We don't know exactly what he can become lets see what we have. Give the kid a chance before crucifing him.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#330 » by basketballRob » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:30 pm

Knightro wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:I just don't see the point in continually bringing up Cole's High school statline and accolades. It has no relevance considering he played a year of highly competitive College basketball && was a really bad player. If he was coming out of college or sat out last season, I could understand the reason for doing so but that wasn't the case.

There has been an infinite amount of all-world high school basketball players who amounted to nothing in college or the NBA. It's meaningless.


Yes and no.

I do agree overall performance as a player should definitely skew more towards their most recent level of play.

But specific statistical trends, namely shooting percentages, should probably be looked at over a wider scale since they can fluctuate somewhat significantly year-to-year.

You look at a guy like Bradley Beal. He obviously has a beautiful form on his jumper and he shot something like 49% from 3PT as a high school senior. That number dipped below 34% in his one year in college and then was back up to 38% as an NBA rookie and over 40% in year 2 and 3. The blip in college was the anomaly and not the start of a downward trend.

Cole Anthony and Tyrese Maxey were both guys who shot the ball much better in high school, in AAU ball and on the all-star circut than they did in college.

Was college the anomaly or a sign that they actually can't shoot?

I'm certainly not convinced Anthony is going to become a great finisher, but just based off his jumper form and his history of making shots, I think he'll be a solid/good NBA shooter.
I don't have any stats to back it up but he appears to be able to shoot off the dribble. This is something DJ refused to do. So i could see Cole getting way more open 3 pt shots just dribbling around a screen. That's something that we haven't had over the years and how players like Kemba have killed us.

I was watching a clip of Cliff saying that the pull up 3 pt shot was the hardest shot to defend.

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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#331 » by Skybox » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:31 pm

I'd say Anthony has a much higher ceiling than Kira Lewis but also a lower floor.

Look at Hampton, Maxey, Ball shooting last year - not great but still projected scorers. Wiseman last seen beating up 5'11 HS Centers and Nesmith sets shooting records then has to tap out before conference season begins. It's a crazy year...I'm hopeful that Anthony's floor is DJ but I think he could rise quite a bit higher.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#332 » by pepe1991 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:32 pm

Knightro wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:I just don't see the point in continually bringing up Cole's High school statline and accolades. It has no relevance considering he played a year of highly competitive College basketball && was a really bad player. If he was coming out of college or sat out last season, I could understand the reason for doing so but that wasn't the case.

There has been an infinite amount of all-world high school basketball players who amounted to nothing in college or the NBA. It's meaningless.


Yes and no.

I do agree overall performance as a player should definitely skew more towards their most recent level of play.

But specific statistical trends, namely shooting percentages, should probably be looked at over a wider scale since they can fluctuate somewhat significantly year-to-year.

You look at a guy like Bradley Beal. He obviously has a beautiful form on his jumper and he shot something like 49% from 3PT as a high school senior. That number dipped below 34% in his one year in college and then was back up to 38% as an NBA rookie and over 40% in year 2 and 3. The blip in college was the anomaly and not the start of a downward trend.

Cole Anthony and Tyrese Maxey were both guys who shot the ball much better in high school, in AAU ball and on the all-star circut than they did in college.

Was college the anomaly or a sign that they actually can't shoot?

I'm certainly not convinced Anthony is going to become a great finisher, but just based off his jumper form and his history of making shots, I think he'll be a solid/good NBA shooter.


Beal's 57,5% TS is still couple of light years ahead of Cole and his 50%.

Also it's not even just shooting. He is playmaker that isn't good at play-making. He is basically averaging 1 turnover for every assist he does.
And let' not even talk about finishing around rim.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#333 » by pepe1991 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:34 pm

3ddman23 wrote:Here is the thing that I dont get ,i understand he was underwhelming his 1 year but if he would have sat out the rest of the season after his injury( ala porter jr) and the magic still picked him at 15 people would be raving about how they where able to get a top 5 pick at 15(ala porter jr).

But since he came back from Injury( probalaly to fast) instead of taking the easy way out and struggled on a dreadful unc team( whom had went 3-8 while he was out) everyone is up in arms about how bad of a pick it is.

The kid was regarded as the best pg in the country try going into the college season for a reason. He has talent, lets not act like he doesn't. The main issue is his shoot selection and decision making which are things that can be worked on.

Let him play, let him work thru these issues he has. What do we have to lose this team is garbage and is desperate need of talent. We don't know exactly what he can become lets see what we have. Give the kid a chance before crucifing him.


He averaged 19 ppg on 36% FG and 34% for 3 before injury.
Only way how he could save his top 5 pick status was that he did not play after first game at college.
In game 2 he was already chucking ( 7/24)
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#334 » by basketballRob » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:38 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
3ddman23 wrote:Here is the thing that I dont get ,i understand he was underwhelming his 1 year but if he would have sat out the rest of the season after his injury( ala porter jr) and the magic still picked him at 15 people would be raving about how they where able to get a top 5 pick at 15(ala porter jr).

But since he came back from Injury( probalaly to fast) instead of taking the easy way out and struggled on a dreadful unc team( whom had went 3-8 while he was out) everyone is up in arms about how bad of a pick it is.

The kid was regarded as the best pg in the country try going into the college season for a reason. He has talent, lets not act like he doesn't. The main issue is his shoot selection and decision making which are things that can be worked on.

Let him play, let him work thru these issues he has. What do we have to lose this team is garbage and is desperate need of talent. We don't know exactly what he can become lets see what we have. Give the kid a chance before crucifing him.


He averaged 19 ppg on 36% FG and 34% for 3 before injury.
Only way how he could save his top 5 pick status was that he did not play after first game at college.
In game 2 he was already chucking ( 7/24)
The pundits have been saying that the pros are a better fit for Cole's game.

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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#335 » by Knightro » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:51 pm

3ddman23 wrote:Here is the thing that I dont get ,i understand he was underwhelming his 1 year but if he would have sat out the rest of the season after his injury( ala porter jr) and the magic still picked him at 15 people would be raving about how they where able to get a top 5 pick at 15(ala porter jr).

But since he came back from Injury( probalaly to fast) instead of taking the easy way out and struggled on a dreadful unc team( whom had went 3-8 while he was out) everyone is up in arms about how bad of a pick it is.


His stats weren't really better before the injury for what it's worth.

Pre-injury: .368 FG% on 16.9 FGA, .355 3PT% on 6.9 3PTA, .679 FT% on 6.2 FTA
Post-injury: .389 FG% on 14.8 FGA, .342 3PT% on 6.1 3PTA, .806 FT% on 5.5 FTA
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#336 » by yoyojw17 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:11 pm

basketballRob wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
3ddman23 wrote:Here is the thing that I dont get ,i understand he was underwhelming his 1 year but if he would have sat out the rest of the season after his injury( ala porter jr) and the magic still picked him at 15 people would be raving about how they where able to get a top 5 pick at 15(ala porter jr).

But since he came back from Injury( probalaly to fast) instead of taking the easy way out and struggled on a dreadful unc team( whom had went 3-8 while he was out) everyone is up in arms about how bad of a pick it is.

The kid was regarded as the best pg in the country try going into the college season for a reason. He has talent, lets not act like he doesn't. The main issue is his shoot selection and decision making which are things that can be worked on.

Let him play, let him work thru these issues he has. What do we have to lose this team is garbage and is desperate need of talent. We don't know exactly what he can become lets see what we have. Give the kid a chance before crucifing him.


He averaged 19 ppg on 36% FG and 34% for 3 before injury.
Only way how he could save his top 5 pick status was that he did not play after first game at college.
In game 2 he was already chucking ( 7/24)
The pundits have been saying that the pros are a better fit for Cole's game.

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... and take into context that his team was miserable.... he was coming off of injury... there was not much working in his favor.

It's like saying that you beat a player... who had 12 years olds as his teammates and one leg in a cast. Would you judge him and his play... when you're double and triple-teaming him as he hobbles around the court? results would be inaccurate lol. Yes... obvious over over exaggeration.... but it's done to make a point. His season is somewhere on a spectrum.

put him on a team where players have a gravity of their own and everyone isn't just staring at him... results could be drastically better... and it is those kinds of 2nd level information that our analysts would look at and factor in.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#337 » by Skin » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:36 pm

I thought he was 6'3 with a 6'45 WS, but he's actually 6'1 with a 6'45 WS. Knew he didn't pass the eye test.
Fultz, _____, Okeke, Isaac, Bamba. LET'S GO!
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#338 » by basketballRob » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:51 pm

Skin wrote:I thought he was 6'3 with a 6'45 WS, but he's actually 6'1 with a 6'45 WS. Knew he didn't pass the eye test.
I saw 6'1.5", but we'll find out for sure in a couple weeks. They'll list him at 6'2", because they round up.


https://crownhoops.com/2019/10/08/complete-list-of-nba-player-height-changes-and-updates/

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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#339 » by basketballRob » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:52 pm

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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#340 » by 3ddman23 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:27 pm

Knightro wrote:
3ddman23 wrote:Here is the thing that I dont get ,i understand he was underwhelming his 1 year but if he would have sat out the rest of the season after his injury( ala porter jr) and the magic still picked him at 15 people would be raving about how they where able to get a top 5 pick at 15(ala porter jr).

But since he came back from Injury( probalaly to fast) instead of taking the easy way out and struggled on a dreadful unc team( whom had went 3-8 while he was out) everyone is up in arms about how bad of a pick it is.


His stats weren't really better before the injury for what it's worth.

Pre-injury: .368 FG% on 16.9 FGA, .355 3PT% on 6.9 3PTA, .679 FT% on 6.2 FTA
Post-injury: .389 FG% on 14.8 FGA, .342 3PT% on 6.1 3PTA, .806 FT% on 5.5 FTA



See i get that. But Thats all people keep bringing up. Now all of sudden his whole projection is based off of a 20 game sample size riddled with injuries and a horrid team.

Its like everyone just go well thats its, that's the player where getting. Not realizing that certain players are more keen for the nba, or that he could fully adapt and become a more refined player. The kid has a good head on his shoulders and is without a doubt talented. He has the drive and it factor to potentially become something special. Its up to him to make adjustments. Let's see what happens.

THE MAGIC ARE COMPLETE ASS, this kid was the most talented player left at 15. They took the risk that a ton of us have been asking and went with the big name high profile player that underwhelmed in college. Now let's see if luck is on our side and we get the "steal of the draft".

If not then so be it, he was a 15 pick not a top 5 or 10. We have markelle as well and too me this is more of an insurance thing if markelle doesn't work out. I guess we'll see how it unfolds.
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