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Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15

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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#341 » by yoyojw17 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:59 pm

Def Swami wrote:
Nyce_1 wrote:Man, after a few days and nights sleep, and some youtube watching, I just can't get excited about this pick. I'll support him, 1000%, but I just don't see it off available tape. I'm looking forward to preseason games to see him with our guys. I hope he has a good camp and picks up some things quickly.

At best, I see backup PG.

p.s. Kira Lewis would've been

Kira Lewis going 2 picks before the Magic's selection will be a continued tradition of the Magic missing out on good players by a pick or two.

Funniest part about that is.... if we were choosing at 16... there would be people up in arms saying... "we missed out on a possible top tier talent in cole by 1 pick... typical magic" :-) :-D

The fomo runs deep here. lol
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#342 » by yoyojw17 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:07 pm

basketballRob wrote:
Skin wrote:I thought he was 6'3 with a 6'45 WS, but he's actually 6'1 with a 6'45 WS. Knew he didn't pass the eye test.
I saw 6'1.5", but we'll find out for sure in a couple weeks. They'll list him at 6'2", because they round up.


https://crownhoops.com/2019/10/08/complete-list-of-nba-player-height-changes-and-updates/

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everyone has taken a 1-2" hit for the most part... since they started going with barefoot measurements... so ... yeah... no worries here.
Which is the same height as kyrie.... he'll be fine. lol
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#343 » by JojoSlimbiid » Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:09 pm

Watched a couple highlights of him and I dunno. Saw a bunch of dribbling into jumpers which is nice but I didn't see a ton of penetration and I certainly didn't see any playmaking. Seems like a small one note scorer which isn't necessarily bad for this team.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#345 » by Knightro » Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:35 am

Skin wrote:I thought he was 6'3 with a 6'45 WS, but he's actually 6'1 with a 6'45 WS. Knew he didn't pass the eye test.


He's 6'1" 1/2 barefoot which means he's 6'2" 1/2 in shoes which gets rounded up to 6'3".

In shoes is how college measures height. Hence Anthony being listed at 6'3" at UNC.

The NBA measures height barefoot now, so Anthony will be listed at 6'2" with the Magic.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#346 » by Bensational » Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:07 am

yoyojw17 wrote:
Def Swami wrote:
Nyce_1 wrote:Man, after a few days and nights sleep, and some youtube watching, I just can't get excited about this pick. I'll support him, 1000%, but I just don't see it off available tape. I'm looking forward to preseason games to see him with our guys. I hope he has a good camp and picks up some things quickly.

At best, I see backup PG.

p.s. Kira Lewis would've been

Kira Lewis going 2 picks before the Magic's selection will be a continued tradition of the Magic missing out on good players by a pick or two.

Funniest part about that is.... if we were choosing at 16... there would be people up in arms saying... "we missed out on a possible top tier talent in cole by 1 pick... typical magic" :-) :-D

The fomo runs deep here. lol


It's either that or "we could've traded down for Maxey!!" (or insert name).

Though Haliburton sliding to 12 and Vassell going to the Spurs will be the standout picks, IMO. Knowing we probably could've been aggressive and traded with Phoenix for that pick is disappointing. Their guy would've been there at 15.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#347 » by yoyojw17 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:20 am

Bensational wrote:
yoyojw17 wrote:
Def Swami wrote:Kira Lewis going 2 picks before the Magic's selection will be a continued tradition of the Magic missing out on good players by a pick or two.

Funniest part about that is.... if we were choosing at 16... there would be people up in arms saying... "we missed out on a possible top tier talent in cole by 1 pick... typical magic" :-) :-D

The fomo runs deep here. lol


It's either that or "we could've traded down for Maxey!!" (or insert name).

Though Haliburton sliding to 12 and Vassell going to the Spurs will be the standout picks, IMO. Knowing we probably could've been aggressive and traded with Phoenix for that pick is disappointing. Their guy would've been there at 15.

Sometimes i think the same... but there is soooooo much that happens behind the scenes that we never know about. But... fair enough... Jalen Smith was shown in a couple mocks. might be a surprise to us... but he could have had been higher on others boards. I just don't think trades are easy as WE make it seem. lol... yup i include myself. Note.... no trades were made in the 15 picks.

unlike top heavy drafts... this one was lathered up with quality picks. Might not have a bunch of stars coming out... but this could be a draft where a larger percent of players will be in the league for a while. Here's hoping!
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#348 » by yoyojw17 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:49 am

https://www.nba.com/magic/orlando-magic-scouting-cole-anthony-nba-draft-pick-20201121

Good article that looks at all the steps of Cole Anthony.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#349 » by Knightro » Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:48 am

Once Lewis went off the board, I think the only two players the Magic were truly considering at 15 were Cole Anthony and RJ Hampton.

Had the Celtics taken Anthony at 14, I think the Magic would have taken Hampton at 15.

I think the front office really wanted a guard and I think they wanted to take the biggest swing they could possibly take.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#350 » by PrimeThyme » Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:13 am

Out of all the excuses that people have made for Cole over the course of last season and this draft process, I think the one that holds the most weight for me is just the lack of offensive talent UNC had last year. I mean they truly had absolutely zero playmakers/shot creators on that team and I would be shocked if anyone on that roster ever made it to the league.

You can pick any one of those games (thanks for posting dr3!) and see just how many of their half court offensive possessions would result in the ball swinging to cole with 8 seconds left on the shot clock. This would be after a possession of failed post-up attempts and their guards playing perimeter hot potato for 10 seconds. Then at that point Cole would be forced to throw up a shot.

That's not to say that a good bit of the blame doesn't fall on him tho.

At the end of the day, he just hasn't yet shown the ability to elevate talent. NC desperately needed him to not only create his own shots, but shots for others as well, && he just wasn't able to at a high enough level.

There were also plenty of possessions that failed because of an ill advised shot by Cole or a costly turnover where he was simply trying to do too much

It just makes me wonder who is going to be that playmaker off the bench next season. If we try to force him into that same role with the second unit next year I think it could prove to be disastrous. Optimally, he would be on the floor with Fultz as the two-guard playing a minor secondary playmaking role.

If he is going to be forced to create shots for the Aminus/Bamba's/Bacons/Birchs of the world, he is going to be in for a really long season that won't exactly benefit his development imo.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#351 » by Knightro » Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:28 am

I really wonder if perhaps Anthony's knee was bothering him at Carolina for longer than he let on.

I've been doing a bit of a deep dive into all the YouTube clips I can find from Anthony's pre-UNC days and to my untrained eyes he just looked quite a bit more explosive in high school, EYBL and on the all-star circuit and it wasn't like that was all that long ago.

Really trying to remain hopeful that his North Carolina experience was just the perfect storm of poor teammates, a coaching system that didn't suit his game and injuries because the kid looked so polished and just so good at literally every other stop along the way.

It's not out of the question at all to say Cole Anthony was the best guard in the country when he was age 16, 17 and 18.

He was awful at age 19, there's no denying it, but *hopefully* that was just the outlier and the Magic will benefit from a particularly bad situation that snowballed on him.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#352 » by zaymon » Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:11 am

Regarding Cole role of the bench i am quite confident MCW and Ross will take a lot of the offensive burden. Ross is very underrated pick and roll ball handler and MCW was quite impressive driving to the rim late in the season. Another question is if Okeke will start, but Ennis also can handle the ball a little.
After what he has been through in North Carolina, attacking close outs should be a nice change of pace for him. Our bench with Dj was really rolling at times.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#353 » by Bensational » Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:33 am

PrimeThyme wrote:Out of all the excuses that people have made for Cole over the course of last season and this draft process, I think the one that holds the most weight for me is just the lack of offensive talent UNC had last year. I mean they truly had absolutely zero playmakers/shot creators on that team and I would be shocked if anyone on that roster ever made it to the league.

You can pick any one of those games (thanks for posting dr3!) and see just how many of their half court offensive possessions would result in the ball swinging to cole with 8 seconds left on the shot clock. This would be after a possession of failed post-up attempts and their guards playing perimeter hot potato for 10 seconds. Then at that point Cole would be forced to throw up a shot.

That's not to say that a good bit of the blame doesn't fall on him tho.

At the end of the day, he just hasn't yet shown the ability to elevate talent. NC desperately needed him to not only create his own shots, but shots for others as well, && he just wasn't able to at a high enough level.

There were also plenty of possessions that failed because of an ill advised shot by Cole or a costly turnover where he was simply trying to do too much

It just makes me wonder who is going to be that playmaker off the bench next season. If we try to force him into that same role with the second unit next year I think it could prove to be disastrous. Optimally, he would be on the floor with Fultz as the two-guard playing a minor secondary playmaking role.

If he is going to be forced to create shots for the Aminus/Bamba's/Bacons/Birchs of the world, he is going to be in for a really long season that won't exactly benefit his development imo.


Most likely it will be similar to what we saw last season with DJ. I think Cole could likely learn to run a PnR as well as DJ did, and make the pass to Ross every other play. If Bamba is back and spacing the paint it might help Cole finish better.

But then there will also be a lot of plays where he's left in a corner whilst MCW, or Gordon, or Fournier, or even Aminu (smh) decide to initiate a play.

At times it will be a point of frustration that he's not getting more minutes or burn, and at other times he will look like a bust and we'll want him off the court. Same story as every other rookie, for better or worse.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#354 » by basketballRob » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:46 am

Cole had some historically bad teammates at NC. As a team they shot 303 from 3 pt.
The previous year Coby White had more space with Cam Johnson there. If Cole had the Coby's teammates he would've probably matched his stats.

Coby shot less than 40% last season in the NBA but the last 10 games games he shot great and averaged 26 ppg.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/north-carolina/2020.html


https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/whiteco01.html
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#355 » by pepe1991 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:05 am

basketballRob wrote:Cole had some historically bad teammates at NC. As a team they shot 303 from 3 pt.
The previous year Coby White had more space with Cam Johnson there. If Cole had the Coby's teammates he would've probably matched his stats.

Coby shot less than 40% last season in the NBA but the last 10 games games he shot great and averaged 26 ppg.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/north-carolina/2020.html


https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/whiteco01.html
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Helps when last 10 games you play:
Hornets, Suns, Washington, OKC, Knicks, Dallas, Minessota, Indiana, Brooklyn and Clevland.

Before tail end of that, he averaged 10 ppg on 49% TS and +/- of epic -11.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#356 » by basketballRob » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:12 am

pepe1991 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Cole had some historically bad teammates at NC. As a team they shot 303 from 3 pt.
The previous year Coby White had more space with Cam Johnson there. If Cole had the Coby's teammates he would've probably matched his stats.

Coby shot less than 40% last season in the NBA but the last 10 games games he shot great and averaged 26 ppg.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/north-carolina/2020.html


https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/whiteco01.html
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Helps when last 10 games you play:
Hornets, Suns, Washington, OKC, Knicks, Dallas, Minessota, Indiana, Brooklyn and Clevland.

Before tail end of that, he averaged 10 ppg on 49% TS and +/- of epic -11.
Look at Kemba's first 4 years. 304, 305, 322, and 333 from 3. Then at 25 he raised his 3 pt shooting to 370. Players get better and i could see Coby making a few allstar teams.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/walkeke02.html

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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#357 » by pepe1991 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:43 am

basketballRob wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Cole had some historically bad teammates at NC. As a team they shot 303 from 3 pt.
The previous year Coby White had more space with Cam Johnson there. If Cole had the Coby's teammates he would've probably matched his stats.

Coby shot less than 40% last season in the NBA but the last 10 games games he shot great and averaged 26 ppg.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/north-carolina/2020.html


https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/whiteco01.html
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Helps when last 10 games you play:
Hornets, Suns, Washington, OKC, Knicks, Dallas, Minessota, Indiana, Brooklyn and Clevland.

Before tail end of that, he averaged 10 ppg on 49% TS and +/- of epic -11.
Look at Kemba's first 4 years. 304, 305, 322, and 333 from 3. Then at 25 he raised his 3 pt shooting to 370. Players get better and i could see Coby making a few allstar teams.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/walkeke02.html

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Coby White "run" against garbage teams, during clear intentions of Bulls to tank is equivalent of Mario Hezonja emergency during 2017 when he averaged like 20 points a game. Or Elfrid Payton finding desire to play basketball and chase stats in March and April of every year, right in time to make impression on GM to not trade or draft replacment.

It's meaningless and usless and shouldn't be viewed as anything but level of competition that declines over time as regular season meats it's ends.
Just like Magic would play hard last 10 games against teams that sucked on purpose or saved energy for playoffs- on purpose and entering new regular season fans carried that "but we improved,look at our last 10 games" false hope into new one.

Coby White didn't got better from April 20 to April 22 of same year. Right before his "run" he shot 30-92 ( 32,6% FG) in 8 games prior. But during that streach they played Indiana, Toronto, San Antonio and Philly...later during his scoring streak, they played teams i already named.

Coby is definition of bench player. If everythnig goes right he might become Jeremy Lamb type player.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#358 » by tiderulz » Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:52 pm

Knightro wrote:
Skin wrote:I thought he was 6'3 with a 6'45 WS, but he's actually 6'1 with a 6'45 WS. Knew he didn't pass the eye test.


He's 6'1" 1/2 barefoot which means he's 6'2" 1/2 in shoes which gets rounded up to 6'3".

In shoes is how college measures height. Hence Anthony being listed at 6'3" at UNC.

The NBA measures height barefoot now, so Anthony will be listed at 6'2" with the Magic.

personally, they should list height in shoes. its not like a player is barefoot on the court. they are in shoes on the court so that is the height that matters.
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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#359 » by basketballRob » Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:57 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Helps when last 10 games you play:
Hornets, Suns, Washington, OKC, Knicks, Dallas, Minessota, Indiana, Brooklyn and Clevland.

Before tail end of that, he averaged 10 ppg on 49% TS and +/- of epic -11.
Look at Kemba's first 4 years. 304, 305, 322, and 333 from 3. Then at 25 he raised his 3 pt shooting to 370. Players get better and i could see Coby making a few allstar teams.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/walkeke02.html

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Coby White "run" against garbage teams, during clear intentions of Bulls to tank is equivalent of Mario Hezonja emergency during 2017 when he averaged like 20 points a game. Or Elfrid Payton finding desire to play basketball and chase stats in March and April of every year, right in time to make impression on GM to not trade or draft replacment.

It's meaningless and usless and shouldn't be viewed as anything but level of competition that declines over time as regular season meats it's ends.
Just like Magic would play hard last 10 games against teams that sucked on purpose or saved energy for playoffs- on purpose and entering new regular season fans carried that "but we improved,look at our last 10 games" false hope into new one.

Coby White didn't got better from April 20 to April 22 of same year. Right before his "run" he shot 30-92 ( 32,6% FG) in 8 games prior. But during that streach they played Indiana, Toronto, San Antonio and Philly...later during his scoring streak, they played teams i already named.

Coby is definition of bench player. If everythnig goes right he might become Jeremy Lamb type player.
So based on what Kemba did when he was 20, he's a bench warmer?

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Re: Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15 

Post#360 » by Blue_and_Whte » Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:14 pm

Knightro wrote:I'm sure some of these facts have been shared, but here are a few things that explain some of Cole Anthony and North Carolina's struggles.

North Carolina was a terrible shooting team
-Anthony's UNC teammates combined to shoot 29.1% from the 3 point line for the season.

North Carolina had terrible spacing
-Garrison Brooks and Armando Bacot, two big men who *combined* to take 7 threes the entire season, started every game at the 4 and 5 and each played big minutes.

North Carolina does not run a ball-screen heavy offense
-North Carolina finished just 18% of their plays out of pick-and-roll sets either with passes or shots from the ballhandler. That was 306th nationally.

Now none of these things explain away all of Anthony's struggles by any means, but certainly interesting things to note.

This is the point I keep trying to make. I still didn't like how he played but there is something to say about the talent and lack of spacing having an impact on how he had to play.
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