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Run it back again?!?!?!

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Run it back again?!?!?! 

Post#1 » by Rainwater » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:56 pm

This post might be a bit premature as there is still time in the off-season but it seems like the front office is set on running back the same team with minor changes when clearly bigger changes are necessary. Be it a rebuild, the addition of stars, or something else; something different needs to happen yet this front office is ok with being mediocre and boring. I really don't get it and it is just frustrating. I feel like the magic are the most irreverent team in the league.
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Re: Run it back again?!?!?! 

Post#2 » by The Effect » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:58 pm

No no, this time its gonna be different, they swear!!

Listen, if you run it back enough times, it might just work out!!
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Re: Run it back again?!?!?! 

Post#3 » by Bigmagicfan82 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:00 pm

A copy of what I said in another thread about the matter.

I don't think that they are running it back as much as just a matter of the circumstances.

a) This is a compresses free agency market.
b) There is still alot of uncertainty around the league.
c) The Magic don't have any cap room.
d) The Magic are not contenders and attracting big names.

Even if look at it right now most of the big names are returning back to their old teams. Also most of the contracts are short ones. It seems like teams are just trying to get through this crazy time with as little financial burden as possible. The only team that seems to be the exception to this are the Warriors and Lakers. This doesn't mean that there won't be trades. I don't think they will happen now but I do think that at least one of (maybe more) Gordon, Fournier, and Vuc will be traded by the trade deadline.

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Re: Run it back again?!?!?! 

Post#4 » by D12VCMagic » Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:10 pm

It’s pathetic. I would half get it if the team had momentum or anything but we were one of the worst teams in the bubble and with Isaac injured we are clearly not a threat for anything but a quick first round exit, if we are lucky.

This is the most depressed I think I’ve ever been about the Magic in 20+ years being a fan. Even when the team sucked there was light at the end of the tunnel and it’s not bad when you know it’s a rebuild. But this, this is no hope and no desire for anything better. Sadly this franchise may be doomed to it’s poverty status until we get new ownership.
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Re: Run it back again?!?!?! 

Post#5 » by CZ Eddie » Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:25 pm

Isaac getting injured is pretty much to me as Klay was getting injured to the Warriors.
This upcoming season was supposed to be a breakout year for us.
And it still could be.
But it wouldn't suck if we traded our best older players in on some 2021 1st round picks and give this year to grooming the young athletes we already have.
I don't want us to tank on purpose... that's not what I'm saying.
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Re: Run it back again?!?!?! 

Post#6 » by J the Drafter » Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:37 pm

It seems obvious to me that the front office is focused on improving the team through the draft. It’s slow, and depends on good drafting and good player development, but it’s cheap, it doesn’t require sacrificing players, and if done well it can benefit the team for a decade or more.

Are there any available trades that can match that?
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Re: Run it back again?!?!?! 

Post#7 » by zaymon » Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:44 pm

J the Drafter wrote:It seems obvious to me that the front office is focused on improving the team through the draft. It’s slow, and depends on good drafting and good player development, but it’s cheap, it doesn’t require sacrificing players, and if done well it can benefit the team for a decade or more.

Are there any available trades that can match that?

Well most of the board wants Westbrook or thinks trading all of our veterans guarantees us Cunnigham. Two 100% certain championship options and we chose to slowly develop our core.
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Re: Run it back again?!?!?! 

Post#8 » by TheGlyde » Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:06 pm

Sorry guys... But I called this almost to the letter back in September:
viewtopic.php?p=84616746#p84616746

TheGlyde wrote:
MasterGMer wrote:
That is depressing to hear. So what should we do, in your opinion? So that we can have a future of contention


We are in a tough spot, and over the next year or two I think the best we can realistically hope for is incremental improvements.

1. As I said earlier in this thread, I think Evan opts in and you look to trade him if you can get one of these;
- A younger player with potential (think how we got Evan for Afflalo etc)
- A player who is as good a shooter who doesn't need to dominate the ball
- A better playmaker
But, it has to be on a contract that doesn't handcuff the team down the line, which is not easy.

If you can't get one of the above and the Magic are in playoff contention, rather than make a bad trade they may just ride Fournier out all the way to the end of his contract and try to replace him through the draft/MLE and/or hope by then other scorers have developed.

2. Keep Vuc. As I have said recently in posts the end goal is for the team to make enough money that it doesn't become a money sink for the DeVos family and sold to another city. Vuc keeps us in playoff contention and the right moves and player development around him could improve the team overall.

3. Keep Gordon for now. If Okeke is as good as we need him to be, and Aminu is better than this season, then look to move AG at the trade deadline. Again though, if we are in the playoff hunt, and/or Okeke isn't ready, the Magic may stand pat until Isaac proves he can play.

4. Get some real player development staff in here to get Okeke and #15 off on the right foot, Markelle's 3 point game cooking and a big man coach suited for the modern NBA to help Bamba become servicable.

5. Unless you use #15 on a PG, whoever you bring in to backup Markelle needs to be on a 1-2 year deal (not opposed to it being DJ or MCW). If it is a FA, do not give them this full MLE 4 year garbage they gave Aminu, because if Markelle develops as hoped they backup PG might only be playing < 15mins.

6. Take a punt on Isaac's health and try and extend him cheap now while he is injured, hope for the best, and if he goes down again, well, at least his contract isn't a team killer.

7. The rest of the players, take them or leave them, look for cheap buys like Ennis/Clark and don't take on any bad contracts.

So basically, I am saying in a perfect world we move Evan for someone who is younger but becomes better, we move AG for value/youth at the deadline because Okeke/Aminu are playing well, Markelle and Bamba develop well and Vuc carries over his bubble play to next season...

To me that's the best we can hope for.


Incremental improvements

Anthony in for DJ
Okeke in for Iwundu
Bacon in for Frazier Jr.

Stay tuned for the Isaac extension... Hopefully a Fournier trade is to come.
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Re: Run it back again?!?!?! 

Post#9 » by The Effect » Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:18 pm

Bigmagicfan82 wrote:A copy of what I said in another thread about the matter.

I don't think that they are running it back as much as just a matter of the circumstances.

a) This is a compresses free agency market.
b) There is still alot of uncertainty around the league.
c) The Magic don't have any cap room.
d) The Magic are not contenders and attracting big names.

Even if look at it right now most of the big names are returning back to their old teams. Also most of the contracts are short ones. It seems like teams are just trying to get through this crazy time with as little financial burden as possible. The only team that seems to be the exception to this are the Warriors and Lakers. This doesn't mean that there won't be trades. I don't think they will happen now but I do think that at least one of (maybe more) Gordon, Fournier, and Vuc will be traded by the trade deadline.

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Funny how every other team in the league sees this time as a chance to improve... But not the all knowing weham.... They are clearly to smart for this league, they are playing 3d chess while everyone is playing checkers
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Re: Run it back again?!?!?! 

Post#10 » by basketballRob » Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:21 pm

Delete
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Re: Run it back again?!?!?! 

Post#11 » by Rainwater » Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:40 pm

J the Drafter wrote:It seems obvious to me that the front office is focused on improving the team through the draft. It’s slow, and depends on good drafting and good player development, but it’s cheap, it doesn’t require sacrificing players, and if done well it can benefit the team for a decade or more.

Are there any available trades that can match that?


I don't know the likeliness of getting a good draft pick if you are consistently drafting in the middle of the first round.
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Re: Run it back again?!?!?! 

Post#12 » by MagicMatic » Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:42 pm

TRADE these aging players while they have any value left.

The rest of the justification in this thread is nonsense.


Magic get better through trade and draft only. Picking 14-17 every season, after a first round exit, is the wrong way to go about picking a real direction for a organization with limited options.

Pick a direction. The middle isn’t a direction.
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Re: Run it back again?!?!?! 

Post#13 » by RookieStar » Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:42 pm

TheGlyde wrote:Sorry guys... But I called this almost to the letter back in September:
viewtopic.php?p=84616746#p84616746

TheGlyde wrote:
MasterGMer wrote:
That is depressing to hear. So what should we do, in your opinion? So that we can have a future of contention


We are in a tough spot, and over the next year or two I think the best we can realistically hope for is incremental improvements.

1. As I said earlier in this thread, I think Evan opts in and you look to trade him if you can get one of these;
- A younger player with potential (think how we got Evan for Afflalo etc)
- A player who is as good a shooter who doesn't need to dominate the ball
- A better playmaker
But, it has to be on a contract that doesn't handcuff the team down the line, which is not easy.

If you can't get one of the above and the Magic are in playoff contention, rather than make a bad trade they may just ride Fournier out all the way to the end of his contract and try to replace him through the draft/MLE and/or hope by then other scorers have developed.

2. Keep Vuc. As I have said recently in posts the end goal is for the team to make enough money that it doesn't become a money sink for the DeVos family and sold to another city. Vuc keeps us in playoff contention and the right moves and player development around him could improve the team overall.

3. Keep Gordon for now. If Okeke is as good as we need him to be, and Aminu is better than this season, then look to move AG at the trade deadline. Again though, if we are in the playoff hunt, and/or Okeke isn't ready, the Magic may stand pat until Isaac proves he can play.

4. Get some real player development staff in here to get Okeke and #15 off on the right foot, Markelle's 3 point game cooking and a big man coach suited for the modern NBA to help Bamba become servicable.

5. Unless you use #15 on a PG, whoever you bring in to backup Markelle needs to be on a 1-2 year deal (not opposed to it being DJ or MCW). If it is a FA, do not give them this full MLE 4 year garbage they gave Aminu, because if Markelle develops as hoped they backup PG might only be playing < 15mins.

6. Take a punt on Isaac's health and try and extend him cheap now while he is injured, hope for the best, and if he goes down again, well, at least his contract isn't a team killer.

7. The rest of the players, take them or leave them, look for cheap buys like Ennis/Clark and don't take on any bad contracts.

So basically, I am saying in a perfect world we move Evan for someone who is younger but becomes better, we move AG for value/youth at the deadline because Okeke/Aminu are playing well, Markelle and Bamba develop well and Vuc carries over his bubble play to next season...

To me that's the best we can hope for.


Incremental improvements

Anthony in for DJ
Okeke in for Iwundu
Bacon in for Frazier Jr.

Stay tuned for the Isaac extension... Hopefully a Fournier trade is to come.


If you put it that way then yes, I admit we improved a little. I guess just like everyone else, I too am tired of the buddy-ball plays and other things that just sucks the life of a Magic fan.
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Re: Run it back again?!?!?! 

Post#14 » by Rainwater » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:03 am

zaymon wrote:
J the Drafter wrote:It seems obvious to me that the front office is focused on improving the team through the draft. It’s slow, and depends on good drafting and good player development, but it’s cheap, it doesn’t require sacrificing players, and if done well it can benefit the team for a decade or more.

Are there any available trades that can match that?

Well most of the board wants Westbrook or thinks trading all of our veterans guarantees us Cunnigham. Two 100% certain championship options and we chose to slowly develop our core.


We have been slowly developing Vuc, Evan, and AG for how long now with what results? A borderline playoff squad? Even the secondary core of Fultz, Mo, and Issac doesn't look so bright. At some point you have to admit its not working and you have to try something new. And it doesn't have to necessarily be a rebuild just something different.
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Re: Run it back again?!?!?! 

Post#15 » by Danodez82 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:30 am

I agree 100%@ Rainwater. This team is stuck in mud. Magic have been very patient with Vucevic, Fournier,& Gordon . None of them is a true franchise player or true all star. I’m a HUGE Isaac fan but the truth is that he is injury prone and I would NOT give him an extension. As far as Fultz goes, if he doesn’t improve his 3pt shot I wouldn’t extend him either. He doesn’t seem to be able to extend his arm when he shoots 3’s . When he shoots 15 footers he does. Hopefully he can get this fixed because in today’s NBA your starting guards MUST shoot 3’s. I feel like Magic have to start over. Being a 7th or 8th seed every season and picking 14-17 in the draft is not going to cut it.
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Re: Run it back again?!?!?! 

Post#16 » by Bensational » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:33 am

The scariest thing is if this team manages to stay in contention for a play-in spot, then it will just encourage WeHam to run it back again, but this time with the promise of Isaac elevating the team.

We won't see change unless the team drastically under performs (I don't think it will) or if players walk away from the team, ala DJ.

Here's hoping Fultz, Cole or Okeke blow up this year and force some change.

Or, Gordon becomes the superstar everyone keeps denying he will become. Watch those turnaround jumpers start dropping this season 8)
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Re: Run it back again?!?!?! 

Post#17 » by MagicFan101 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:35 am

Don’t misunderstand me here, I’m pretty damn depressed right now and have little interest in next season beyond the growth of Fultz and getting a look at Cole + Chuma.

So I’m not making excuses for WeHam here.

Still, I am holding out a glimmer of positivity that there are at least 2 legit FRANCHISE STAR talents in the upcoming draft. There are likely a few very good next tier All-Star players as well. This is a good draft class.

With how bad we are going to be and how much better everyone else is getting ... just trying to look at the glass half full.
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Re: Run it back again?!?!?! 

Post#18 » by Blue_and_Whte » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:21 am

MagicFan101 wrote:Don’t misunderstand me here, I’m pretty damn depressed right now and have little interest in next season beyond the growth of Fultz and getting a look at Cole + Chuma.

So I’m not making excuses for WeHam here.

Still, I am holding out a glimmer of positivity that there are at least 2 legit FRANCHISE STAR talents in the upcoming draft. There are likely a few very good next tier All-Star players as well. This is a good draft class.

With how bad we are going to be and how much better everyone else is getting ... just trying to look at the glass half full.
Well everyone and their mother knew Evan would opt and he should. DJ was the definition of a player set to ring chase, there was no way MCW was going to go anywhere else and have to earn his time again. He’s in a pretty comfy role right now and he’s good at it. Ennis, Bacon and Clark are stop gaps. A lot of this stuff played out like people should’ve expected. There’s still some off season left and the deadline.
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Re: Run it back again?!?!?! 

Post#19 » by KillMonger » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:54 am

This is a stealth tank honestly, other teams reloading and getting healthy while we are still on the treadmill. Sure we're running, but we're going nowhere...... I say we're the 9th-10th seed this season
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Re: Run it back again?!?!?! 

Post#20 » by shadrock » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:25 am

The difference i think i see is no long term commitments being made. My HOPE is they are signing short or cheap deals only with a view that we clear cap and start fresh. Id actually prefer we didnt pay for win now moves, but id prefer we saw us trade Vuc/Fournier if that is the case.

Honestly would pay money to punch Alex Martins in the face right now.
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