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Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread

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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1641 » by Knightro » Wed Apr 7, 2021 3:09 am

tiderulz wrote:can we take yet another PG?


Giddey? Probably not. His skill set isn't quite different enough from the guys already here to justify it.

Suggs? Absolutely.

Neither Fultz or Anthony are good enough/proven enough to justify passing on Suggs if you believe he can be a top tier point guard.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1642 » by thelead » Wed Apr 7, 2021 3:24 am

Knightro wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
Knightro wrote:
I really don't see how Suggs isn't in the tier with them. I still rank him neck and neck with Green at this point.


Yeah.. I prefer Suggs than Green even but to say those 3 arent on the same tier is just...


I don't like him as a fit with the Magic, but Mobley is pretty clearly seen on that top tier as well. I wouldn't be shocked if he goes 2nd whatsoever.


Everything is fluid for me. For now:

Tier 1:
Green
Cade
Tier 2:
Suggs
Mobley
Tier 3:
Kuminga

All that said, the top 5 are much closer than anyone else that follows IMO. Although, this is how I have them listed right now, I can easily see Kuminga turning into the best player if his jumper becomes dependable.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1643 » by ogmagicfan » Wed Apr 7, 2021 3:28 am

RookieStar wrote:
ogmagicfan wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
Same.. if you are in the top 5 you guard that spot like a dragon guard it's hoard.

I mean MAYBE I can see a top-5 giving up a ton to move to a top-3 only if the top-3 feels that the player they want can be had in the #5 as well


I feel the same, I want to be optimistic that we can possibly trade into the top 4 if we don’t get a pick there.

However if we feel that one of the top 4 players are our guy, I don’t understand why we simply aren’t tanking like all of the other teams at the bottom are clearly doing so we don’t have to squander our other valuable draft assets & players.


Who says we arent? I mean.. other than benching/ buying out/ waiving all.our current lineup and hiring the GLeague Magic to play, the guys we are playing is as tanking as we can get.


Well I’m advocating for us to take more of a Thunder approach/Dallas 3 years ago/76ers approach. Defensively our team is better, offensively it’s worse. We know we have no 1st option or even 2nd option on a championship roster on this team, alot of good to potential elite role player/pieces to that.

We should be buying Otto Porter out, we should be picking up more G-Leaguers to get run to close the season. We should keep Gary Harris shut down for the season along w/ MCW & Ross. We should recognize the importance of this draft and understand that our beet chance of getting an elite 3 level scorer we haven’t had since T-Mac is through the draft. Especially this draft.

If we’re tanking, we should be going all in after trading Vuc, Fournier, & Gordon. We’ve seen where half stepping has gotten us. I’m just not a fan of seeing teams in more favorable positions in rebuilding/assets taking more urgency when if any team needs to be urgent with tanking in the league, it’s us.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1644 » by ogmagicfan » Wed Apr 7, 2021 3:34 am

Knightro wrote:I know he didn't have a good tournament, but I'm still very interested in Moody in the 8-15 range. Played his entire freshman season at 18.

He's a full year younger than Suggs and Mobley, for example.


Moody is my guy with the Chicago pick if he’s still there. Weltham obsession with wingspan/length would hint towards us looking at him heavily there too.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1645 » by ogmagicfan » Wed Apr 7, 2021 3:37 am

RookieStar wrote:
Knightro wrote:
tiderulz wrote:i said the same thing on the T&T board and accused by another Magic fan, calling it a lie that we arent tanking.


I wouldn't say the Magic are actively tanking. If they were, they would do the OKC thing just sit their healthy veterans and Clifford certainly isn't going to go for that. He's coaching to win every night.

It's merely a coincidence that they have so many injuries which is pretty much forcing them to play every player on the roster anyway.


if we sit our healthy vets like Birch Bacon Ennis MCWand Ross...arent they the ones sucking so we lose the games? I mean other than the occasional.sizzling bacon or coin toss head ross, our vets are pretty pedestrian.

I mean look at our wins, werent the new guys the big factor for winning them?


As much as we talk poorly about them, MCW is a very very good defensive guard, Ross is a flamethrower, Ennis has developed into a good 2 way, and Birch is the definition of hustle. Bacon is bacon lol.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1646 » by Knightro » Wed Apr 7, 2021 4:31 am

Knightro wrote:Been about a month. Here's a new overall big board.

1. Cunningham
2. Barnes
3. Green
4. Suggs
5. Kuminga
6. Mobley
7. Moody
8. Cooper
9. Sengun
10. Wagner


Been a month or so since the last update, as we've now had both the trade deadline and the NCAA Tournament to digest.

Here's my latest overall big board. This is *not* necessarily how I see the prospects as fits for the Orlando Magic, just an overall grouping of talent.

Tier 1
1. Cade Cunningham
2. Scottie Barnes
3. Evan Mobley
4. Jalen Suggs
5. Jalen Green
6. Jonathan Kuminga
Tier 2
7. Moses Moody
8. Alperen Şengün
9. Franz Wagner
10. Jaden Springer

I try and factor fit within each tier. I think Barnes/Mobley are *slightly* better overall NBA prospects than the next three guys, but the gap between 2 and 6 is pretty insignificant. With that in mind, factoring in fit, I would select Suggs/Green/Kuminga over Barnes/Mobley.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1647 » by Ducklett » Wed Apr 7, 2021 4:59 am

Knightro wrote:
Knightro wrote:Been about a month. Here's a new overall big board.

1. Cunningham
2. Barnes
3. Green
4. Suggs
5. Kuminga
6. Mobley
7. Moody
8. Cooper
9. Sengun
10. Wagner


Been a month or so since the last update, as we've now had both the trade deadline and the NCAA Tournament to digest.

Here's my latest overall big board. This is *not* necessarily how I see the prospects as fits for the Orlando Magic, just an overall grouping of talent.

Tier 1
1. Cade Cunningham
2. Scottie Barnes
3. Evan Mobley
4. Jalen Suggs
5. Jalen Green
6. Jonathan Kuminga
Tier 2
7. Moses Moody
8. Alperen Şengün
9. Franz Wagner
10. Jaden Springer

I try and factor fit within each tier. I think Barnes/Mobley are *slightly* better overall NBA prospects than the next three guys, but the gap between 2 and 6 is pretty insignificant. With that in mind, factoring in fit, I would select Suggs/Green/Kuminga over Barnes/Mobley.


A lot of these guys can't shoot the 3, which worries me. Cade was shooting 40%. Some of these guys were shooting in the 20s.

I would agree with you that Moses Moody could be the best of the tier 2 guys, but I am not sure that Scottie Barnes and Kuminga are in tier 1. Some of these mock guys think that Kuminga is the second best prospect in the draft, so who knows really.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1648 » by RookieStar » Wed Apr 7, 2021 5:09 am

ogmagicfan wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
ogmagicfan wrote:
I feel the same, I want to be optimistic that we can possibly trade into the top 4 if we don’t get a pick there.

However if we feel that one of the top 4 players are our guy, I don’t understand why we simply aren’t tanking like all of the other teams at the bottom are clearly doing so we don’t have to squander our other valuable draft assets & players.


Who says we arent? I mean.. other than benching/ buying out/ waiving all.our current lineup and hiring the GLeague Magic to play, the guys we are playing is as tanking as we can get.


Well I’m advocating for us to take more of a Thunder approach/Dallas 3 years ago/76ers approach. Defensively our team is better, offensively it’s worse. We know we have no 1st option or even 2nd option on a championship roster on this team, alot of good to potential elite role player/pieces to that.

We should be buying Otto Porter out, we should be picking up more G-Leaguers to get run to close the season. We should keep Gary Harris shut down for the season along w/ MCW & Ross. We should recognize the importance of this draft and understand that our beet chance of getting an elite 3 level scorer we haven’t had since T-Mac is through the draft. Especially this draft.

If we’re tanking, we should be going all in after trading Vuc, Fournier, & Gordon. We’ve seen where half stepping has gotten us. I’m just not a fan of seeing teams in more favorable positions in rebuilding/assets taking more urgency when if any team needs to be urgent with tanking in the league, it’s us.

But this is what I mean. OPJ iss practically a human victory cigar or whatever equaivalent. I barely see him play. Harris isnt playing at all. Our vets are playing 1 game then sitting the next 2 or 3 games just so we have 8 players to play. What else can you do except tell the young guys like rj okeke wcj to ACTIVELY miss shots and turn up their turnovr rates.

We have no first option aside from Ross chucking up shots after the trade dradline. Its just that is apleasant surprise that Okeke turned into that role and is actually being effective at it.

Normally all we did isnt enough to win and thus tank. its just thay stars aligned and our opponents rested their stars.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1649 » by RookieStar » Wed Apr 7, 2021 5:11 am

Knightro wrote:
Knightro wrote:Been about a month. Here's a new overall big board.

1. Cunningham
2. Barnes
3. Green
4. Suggs
5. Kuminga
6. Mobley
7. Moody
8. Cooper
9. Sengun
10. Wagner


Been a month or so since the last update, as we've now had both the trade deadline and the NCAA Tournament to digest.

Here's my latest overall big board. This is *not* necessarily how I see the prospects as fits for the Orlando Magic, just an overall grouping of talent.

Tier 1
1. Cade Cunningham
2. Scottie Barnes
3. Evan Mobley
4. Jalen Suggs
5. Jalen Green
6. Jonathan Kuminga
Tier 2
7. Moses Moody
8. Alperen Şengün
9. Franz Wagner
10. Jaden Springer

I try and factor fit within each tier. I think Barnes/Mobley are *slightly* better overall NBA prospects than the next three guys, but the gap between 2 and 6 is pretty insignificant. With that in mind, factoring in fit, I would select Suggs/Green/Kuminga over Barnes/Mobley.


I still dont get with Barnes being that high. I actually think that although different stuff putting in the table, he is in the tier of jalen johnson so around mid to late teens.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1650 » by ogmagicfan » Wed Apr 7, 2021 5:44 am

RookieStar wrote:
ogmagicfan wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
Who says we arent? I mean.. other than benching/ buying out/ waiving all.our current lineup and hiring the GLeague Magic to play, the guys we are playing is as tanking as we can get.


Well I’m advocating for us to take more of a Thunder approach/Dallas 3 years ago/76ers approach. Defensively our team is better, offensively it’s worse. We know we have no 1st option or even 2nd option on a championship roster on this team, alot of good to potential elite role player/pieces to that.

We should be buying Otto Porter out, we should be picking up more G-Leaguers to get run to close the season. We should keep Gary Harris shut down for the season along w/ MCW & Ross. We should recognize the importance of this draft and understand that our beet chance of getting an elite 3 level scorer we haven’t had since T-Mac is through the draft. Especially this draft.

If we’re tanking, we should be going all in after trading Vuc, Fournier, & Gordon. We’ve seen where half stepping has gotten us. I’m just not a fan of seeing teams in more favorable positions in rebuilding/assets taking more urgency when if any team needs to be urgent with tanking in the league, it’s us.

But this is what I mean. OPJ iss practically a human victory cigar or whatever equaivalent. I barely see him play. Harris isnt playing at all. Our vets are playing 1 game then sitting the next 2 or 3 games just so we have 8 players to play. What else can you do except tell the young guys like rj okeke wcj to ACTIVELY miss shots and turn up their turnovr rates.

We have no first option aside from Ross chucking up shots after the trade dradline. Its just that is apleasant surprise that Okeke turned into that role and is actually being effective at it.

Normally all we did isnt enough to win and thus tank. its just thay stars aligned and our opponents rested their stars.


OP Jr made a game deciding impact in our two wins, specifically on the defensive side.

I would love for Cliff to commit to the tank, but he’s the last kind of coach to and that’s something management shouldve forsaw and bought him out/fired him in that instance. That is influencing us getting wins as much as anything.

From Cliff’s comments before, it seems they’ll be bringing Harris on board soon. The expectation is that we’ll be having players contribute who don’t really matter in our future plans such as OP Jr as the season moves on and those couple wins difference makes a big difference when it comes to odds.

It’s not wanting the young guys to do bad. If they get wins I’m fine with it. It’s putting players (such as G-Leaguers/10 days) that’ll give them the spotlight to have high usage while even when they have good games we don’t pull out wins, which is what I’d assume most of the board wants. The extra effort is the difference between a star or a role player, especially in a top heavy draft.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1651 » by RookieStar » Wed Apr 7, 2021 6:28 am

I think Cliff knows about the tank. I mean im sure we all have different view points but his lineups to me are headscratching as heck. You got the young guys going hot doing good and immediately sat down.. etc etc
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1652 » by GelbeWand09 » Wed Apr 7, 2021 6:43 am

RookieStar wrote:
Knightro wrote:
tiderulz wrote:i said the same thing on the T&T board and accused by another Magic fan, calling it a lie that we arent tanking.


I wouldn't say the Magic are actively tanking. If they were, they would do the OKC thing just sit their healthy veterans and Clifford certainly isn't going to go for that. He's coaching to win every night.

It's merely a coincidence that they have so many injuries which is pretty much forcing them to play every player on the roster anyway.


if we sit our healthy vets like Birch Bacon Ennis MCWand Ross...arent they the ones sucking so we lose the games? I mean other than the occasional.sizzling bacon or coin toss head ross, our vets are pretty pedestrian.

I mean look at our wins, werent the new guys the big factor for winning them?


No, MCW just won us the Clippers game. T Ross & Porter Jr had a big part in the wins against LA & Nola. Ennis since the trade avg. 12.3 ppg on above leaque avg TS%. There is a big different between Porter Jr, Birch, T-Ross, MCW, Ennis vs. Bacon & Randle.
The former are experienced, high motor, very good defensively vets. The others are scrubs, you sign to 10 day contract to tank.
There is a reason why young teams are almost always bad, lost & cant defend. Watch OKC without the vets now. Turning from a middle of the pack defense to the worst defense in the leaque with teams dropping 130+ regularly against them. Same for the Cavs. Now the Cavs play some vets again & suddenely they are competitive again.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1653 » by GelbeWand09 » Wed Apr 7, 2021 6:55 am

Knightro wrote:I'm not sure he's the best fit for the Magic, but a guy who is really rising on my board is Josh Giddey.

The obvious comparison from a statistical standpoint is LaMelo Ball as they're both super tall point guards who filled up the box scores in the Australian League.

Per 40 stats

Ball: 21.6 PTS, 9.4 REB, 8.6 AST, 2.1 STL, 0.2 BLK, 3.3 PF, 3.2 TO on a .39/.28/.70 slash
Giddey: 14.1 PTS, 8.9 REB, 8.3 AST, 1.6 STL, 0.8 BLK, 2.4 PF, 3.6 TO on a .41/.32/.67 slash

Giddey isn't quite as good (I had LaMelo as my No. 1 prospect last year), but he's putting up comparable numbers. He also doesn't turn 19 until October, so he's one of the youngest prospects in the draft.

I think he's going to end up being a top 20 pick, maybe a top 15 pick.



Watched some film of him too last week. Really fun player but i think he ends up more of a playmaking wing. He looks ok defending PG in australia but i have some doubts he can in the NBA. He could be the next skill player outperforming his draft position but he could become a player drafted too high, because of the succes of skill players the last years too.
I dont like him for us, because of his shooting, but he is one of the most interesting players to follow in the next years of this draft for me.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1654 » by Skin » Wed Apr 7, 2021 7:21 am

Knightro wrote:
Knightro wrote:Been about a month. Here's a new overall big board.

1. Cunningham
2. Barnes
3. Green
4. Suggs
5. Kuminga
6. Mobley
7. Moody
8. Cooper
9. Sengun
10. Wagner


Been a month or so since the last update, as we've now had both the trade deadline and the NCAA Tournament to digest.

Here's my latest overall big board. This is *not* necessarily how I see the prospects as fits for the Orlando Magic, just an overall grouping of talent.

Tier 1
1. Cade Cunningham
2. Scottie Barnes
3. Evan Mobley
4. Jalen Suggs
5. Jalen Green
6. Jonathan Kuminga
Tier 2
7. Moses Moody
8. Alperen Şengün
9. Franz Wagner
10. Jaden Springer

I try and factor fit within each tier. I think Barnes/Mobley are *slightly* better overall NBA prospects than the next three guys, but the gap between 2 and 6 is pretty insignificant. With that in mind, factoring in fit, I would select Suggs/Green/Kuminga over Barnes/Mobley.

Wow you're super high on Barnes. Impressive boldness. I think he has skills, but his fit on the Magic is awkward, especially as a poor 3 pt shooter. I'm absurdly high on Ogbaji, so I get being bold.

Tier 1
1. Jalen Green
2. Cade Cunningham
3. Jalen Suggs
4. Jonathan Kuminga - Believer that his range will come along.
5. Evan Mobley
Tier 2
6. Keon Johnson - Not sure his range will come along, but willing to take a chance on upside.
7. Ochai Ogbaji - Over half his shots were 3 pointers at a 38% clip combined with an NBA body and athleticism. Smooth, controlled game.
8. Corey Kispert - Down tournament play, but still has NBA size and 3 pt confidence.
9. Ayo Dosunma - 2 way player w/NBA style game.
10. Moses Moody - SG with reported 7' wingspan, but I question that.
Markelle Fultz, Jalen Green, Chuma Okeke, Jonathan Isaac, Wendell Carter Jr.
Cole Anthony, RJ Hampton, Corey Kispert, Mo Bamba. LET'S GO!
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1655 » by RookieStar » Wed Apr 7, 2021 7:28 am

GelbeWand09 wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
Knightro wrote:
I wouldn't say the Magic are actively tanking. If they were, they would do the OKC thing just sit their healthy veterans and Clifford certainly isn't going to go for that. He's coaching to win every night.

It's merely a coincidence that they have so many injuries which is pretty much forcing them to play every player on the roster anyway.


if we sit our healthy vets like Birch Bacon Ennis MCWand Ross...arent they the ones sucking so we lose the games? I mean other than the occasional.sizzling bacon or coin toss head ross, our vets are pretty pedestrian.

I mean look at our wins, werent the new guys the big factor for winning them?


No, MCW just won us the Clippers game. T Ross & Porter Jr had a big part in the wins against LA & Nola. Ennis since the trade avg. 12.3 ppg on above leaque avg TS%. There is a big different between Porter Jr, Birch, T-Ross, MCW, Ennis vs. Bacon & Randle.
The former are experienced, high motor, very good defensively vets. The others are scrubs, you sign to 10 day contract to tank.
There is a reason why young teams are almost always bad, lost & cant defend. Watch OKC without the vets now. Turning from a middle of the pack defense to the worst defense in the leaque with teams dropping 130+ regularly against them. Same for the Cavs. Now the Cavs play some vets again & suddenely they are competitive again.


Good point.

But you have to admit that MCW also lost us that Lakers game. So i guess its give and take with him.

But he has missed a lot of games already whether thats legit or not.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1656 » by Bensational » Wed Apr 7, 2021 8:10 am

Knightro wrote:I'm not sure he's the best fit for the Magic, but a guy who is really rising on my board is Josh Giddey.

The obvious comparison from a statistical standpoint is LaMelo Ball as they're both super tall point guards who filled up the box scores in the Australian League.

Per 40 stats

Ball: 21.6 PTS, 9.4 REB, 8.6 AST, 2.1 STL, 0.2 BLK, 3.3 PF, 3.2 TO on a .39/.28/.70 slash
Giddey: 14.1 PTS, 8.9 REB, 8.3 AST, 1.6 STL, 0.8 BLK, 2.4 PF, 3.6 TO on a .41/.32/.67 slash

Giddey isn't quite as good (I had LaMelo as my No. 1 prospect last year), but he's putting up comparable numbers. He also doesn't turn 19 until October, so he's one of the youngest prospects in the draft.

I think he's going to end up being a top 20 pick, maybe a top 15 pick.



It’s still really early in the draft but this is the first name outside the top 5 which has really grabbed me. The way he moves with the ball is just gorgeous. It’s not lightning quick, but it’s under control and he’s reading the defended well. That’s what we really lack right now outside of Chuma, who’s much more limited in his on ball skills than Giddey.

I’d take the chance on him adding a 3pt shot to that playmaking, but maybe I’m overly optimistic in players becoming good shooters? I just really value the kinds of lanes and passes bigger players are able to see and pull off over a smaller floor general PG.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1657 » by Skybox » Wed Apr 7, 2021 10:02 am

I’m not sure what ORL can do to please the tankers...we’ve had like 7.5 healthy guys the last few games. If you’re upset with a “stacked” lineup of Ennis, Bacon, Randle, and MCW - I don’t know what to tell you
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1658 » by Nyce_1 » Wed Apr 7, 2021 11:45 am

RookieStar wrote:So just a question to each of you.. with our appearant youth movement ( we have 3 rookies playing significant minutes right now ).

What are the chances our FO doesnt utilize our extra FRP or high SRP? like we either package it with a trade or use it for a Euro draft and stash? or heck do an okeke and look for an injured player right now we can rehab for a year lol

very likely. also depends on where we land/who we pick with our first pick.

Personally, I don't see them bringing in another rookie, but you never know. Could use the pick + ross to move up? Could use both picks + players for a homerun swing (Beal-ish)? No idea what they're thinking up there and hopefully EVERYTHING is on the table.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1659 » by tiderulz » Wed Apr 7, 2021 12:07 pm

Knightro wrote:
tiderulz wrote:can we take yet another PG?


Giddey? Probably not. His skill set isn't quite different enough from the guys already here to justify it.

Suggs? Absolutely.

Neither Fultz or Anthony are good enough/proven enough to justify passing on Suggs if you believe he can be a top tier point guard.

yes, of course if we get Cade as a PG or Suggs then we take him, i just cant see taking another PG in the 2nd round
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1660 » by tiderulz » Wed Apr 7, 2021 12:16 pm

GelbeWand09 wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
Knightro wrote:
I wouldn't say the Magic are actively tanking. If they were, they would do the OKC thing just sit their healthy veterans and Clifford certainly isn't going to go for that. He's coaching to win every night.

It's merely a coincidence that they have so many injuries which is pretty much forcing them to play every player on the roster anyway.


if we sit our healthy vets like Birch Bacon Ennis MCWand Ross...arent they the ones sucking so we lose the games? I mean other than the occasional.sizzling bacon or coin toss head ross, our vets are pretty pedestrian.

I mean look at our wins, werent the new guys the big factor for winning them?


No, MCW just won us the Clippers game. T Ross & Porter Jr had a big part in the wins against LA & Nola. Ennis since the trade avg. 12.3 ppg on above leaque avg TS%. There is a big different between Porter Jr, Birch, T-Ross, MCW, Ennis vs. Bacon & Randle.
The former are experienced, high motor, very good defensively vets. The others are scrubs, you sign to 10 day contract to tank.
There is a reason why young teams are almost always bad, lost & cant defend. Watch OKC without the vets now. Turning from a middle of the pack defense to the worst defense in the leaque with teams dropping 130+ regularly against them. Same for the Cavs. Now the Cavs play some vets again & suddenely they are competitive again.

i hate to say this, but are the young guys from OKC now developing bad habits that will have to be coached out the next year?

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