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Assuming the Magic will not tank (at least not yet), what do you do now?

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Re: Assuming the Magic will not tank (at least not yet), what do you do now? 

Post#81 » by Bensational » Fri Jan 8, 2021 11:12 pm

jonbob17 wrote:
Skybox wrote:
Bensational wrote:I wonder if Dallas would do Richardson + Green/Terry for Fournier?

Or if New Orleans would do Fournier + Bamba for Lonzo + NAW?


Lonzo might be asking too much, but I'd love to target NAW and NOLA has really shot it poorly so far. They still have a bunch of picks too if we included Mo.


I think we could target Lonzo, but it will take more than Bamba. Some third team getting AG/Fournier or something along those lines. Do we want/need a 3rd point guard with shooting issues. I don't know, he would be the best passer of the bunch. I think they would have extended him if they were serious keeping them in NO, I know they didn't extend Ingram in advance, but he was almost certainly going to get maxed anyways so no harm. Could you imagine if we traded for Ball? We'd have the 50% of the first 6 picks in the 2017 draft, we could have even signed Josh Jackson in Nov.

I don't think Fournier gets any of those players from Dallas let alone two of them.


I like Lonzo for us as another playmaker who can create for others. He could play alongside Cole as the facilitator whilst Cole looks to score. I think Lonzo's shooting has come good enough to trust him, and his defense, rebounding and passing would be a huge upgrade over Fournier.
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Re: Assuming the Magic will not tank (at least not yet), what do you do now? 

Post#82 » by RookieStar » Fri Jan 8, 2021 11:23 pm

Bensational wrote:
jonbob17 wrote:
Skybox wrote:
Lonzo might be asking too much, but I'd love to target NAW and NOLA has really shot it poorly so far. They still have a bunch of picks too if we included Mo.


I think we could target Lonzo, but it will take more than Bamba. Some third team getting AG/Fournier or something along those lines. Do we want/need a 3rd point guard with shooting issues. I don't know, he would be the best passer of the bunch. I think they would have extended him if they were serious keeping them in NO, I know they didn't extend Ingram in advance, but he was almost certainly going to get maxed anyways so no harm. Could you imagine if we traded for Ball? We'd have the 50% of the first 6 picks in the 2017 draft, we could have even signed Josh Jackson in Nov.

I don't think Fournier gets any of those players from Dallas let alone two of them.


I like Lonzo for us as another playmaker who can create for others. He could play alongside Cole as the facilitator whilst Cole looks to score. I think Lonzo's shooting has come good enough to trust him, and his defense, rebounding and passing would be a huge upgrade over Fournier.


Plus he could guard the SGs while Cole handles the "smaller" guard
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Re: Assuming the Magic will not tank (at least not yet), what do you do now? 

Post#83 » by jonbob17 » Sat Jan 9, 2021 12:19 am

Bensational wrote:
jonbob17 wrote:
Skybox wrote:
Lonzo might be asking too much, but I'd love to target NAW and NOLA has really shot it poorly so far. They still have a bunch of picks too if we included Mo.


I think we could target Lonzo, but it will take more than Bamba. Some third team getting AG/Fournier or something along those lines. Do we want/need a 3rd point guard with shooting issues. I don't know, he would be the best passer of the bunch. I think they would have extended him if they were serious keeping them in NO, I know they didn't extend Ingram in advance, but he was almost certainly going to get maxed anyways so no harm. Could you imagine if we traded for Ball? We'd have the 50% of the first 6 picks in the 2017 draft, we could have even signed Josh Jackson in Nov.

I don't think Fournier gets any of those players from Dallas let alone two of them.


I like Lonzo for us as another playmaker who can create for others. He could play alongside Cole as the facilitator whilst Cole looks to score. I think Lonzo's shooting has come good enough to trust him, and his defense, rebounding and passing would be a huge upgrade over Fournier.


I like him. His shooting isn't as bad as people make it out to be. His FTs are atrocious, but he is not good at getting to the line anyways. He is not as good as his brother is going to be, but he is still a good player. I think it is worth a gamble. Can't have too many playmakers.
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Re: Assuming the Magic will not tank (at least not yet), what do you do now? 

Post#84 » by Message Boar » Sat Jan 9, 2021 12:39 am

If we don't tank.... I guess you hand the keys of the offense to Cole Anthony and develop him as best you can while trying to win, focus on improving his passing/floor general skills so the vets get "their shots".

Trade one of our forwards for another combo- or point guard.

Honestly, in a shortened season we've won so many games already going for a top 3 seed in the lotto is nearly impossible anyway. Hopefully the franchise gets luckier than it has been recently, in one way or another.
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Re: Assuming the Magic will not tank (at least not yet), what do you do now? 

Post#85 » by Skybox » Sat Jan 9, 2021 12:53 am

I doubt Lonzo is even available...BUT if we could somehow come away with Lonzo and NAW, we'd have to do it. Don't know what that would mean for Markelle though, I can't imagine they fit together.
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Re: Assuming the Magic will not tank (at least not yet), what do you do now? 

Post#86 » by Xatticus » Sat Jan 9, 2021 1:05 am

I don't know how you answer this question. If you are asking what I would do, then the obvious answer is that you flip whatever assets you have for assets that will possess more value in two years' time.

If you are asking what I would do if I was Weltman... then I try to pick up a veteran PG on the cheap while staying under the luxury tax threshold. I pray that the team stays close to .500 and I try to project confidence while I work on maintaining good relationships with other front offices under the presumption that I will need a landing spot within the next couple years.

I just couldn't be any more convinced than I am right now that this organization is headed towards a full rebuild within the next couple seasons. It's not going to be pretty and I don't think this front office will be making decisions at that point. Weltman's inaction smacks of fear and while he hasn't given cause for immediate removal, I don't see how you commit to this front office when it comes time for that rebuild. Our veterans aren't very good and don't possess the requisite trade value to reshape the roster quickly. Our young core is a smoldering pile of ashes at this point. The rest of the roster is a collection of journeymen that probably wouldn't have a job in the NBA but for this organization's aversion to second-round picks and player development.
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Re: Assuming the Magic will not tank (at least not yet), what do you do now? 

Post#87 » by Skin » Sat Jan 9, 2021 3:23 am

If we don't tank, then fire WeHam.

If we tank, then fire WeHam.

In both cases they are incompetent in being able to show progression. 4 years in and we are still lead by Henny's guys and are in the same status.
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Re: Assuming the Magic will not tank (at least not yet), what do you do now? 

Post#88 » by Vavol6 » Sat Jan 9, 2021 3:25 am

Ok, I came here to eat crow. Just one gane, but my boy Bone did not look to good tonight. He looks really small out there and he is too jittery and overhelps on defense. His defense was a weakness of his in college.

Also, the shot wasn't going down for him tonight. Hes been a career 35% shooter from 3 and I believe he was over 40% in the G League. But tonight wasn't his night, which is unfortunate because I'm not sure how much of an opportunity he is going to get. I think over time he can show he can be an asset as a shooter and creative playmaker.

The nerves were evident tonight though. Once the game got out of hand, the whole team panicked and were just chunking up 3s. No offense was being run.

Also one last note, I was pretty pissed at Cole Anthony. That dude didn't pass to Bone once when they were in the lineup together(though I'm not sure he passes much at all). I just hope it wasn't a :me-first" decision, but it looked like that was the case. Once he entered in the 4th with Bone on the floor he just tried to bully himself to the rim every play.
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Re: Assuming the Magic will not tank (at least not yet), what do you do now? 

Post#89 » by KillMonger » Sat Jan 9, 2021 3:58 am

At some point you have to know when it's time to blow it up.....wouldn't be the first time a team has done it, it's a tough pill to swallow but there are times it's necessary to get where you ultimately want to go....I mean i wonder when boston knew it was time to blow it up and start collecting assets that eventually led to them drafting Tatum and jalen brown....

It's in Weltham's job descriptions to make tough decisions and it might be time to have that talk with clifford and try to get him on board with a fire sale.....Got to sell it to ownership as well but for a long time now it's been in the air that this iteration of the team has run it's course.....the core of Vuc/AG/Fournier has hit it's ceiling, a team with them at the center is a first round exit at best....it may be time to turn the page but like i said before do you think Weltham knows when it's time to blow it up?
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Re: Assuming the Magic will not tank (at least not yet), what do you do now? 

Post#90 » by minimus » Sat Jan 9, 2021 8:11 am

deggett wrote:
minimus wrote:
deggett wrote:Aaron Gordon for Ricky Rubio + Jaden McDaniels + 2023 protected draft pick?


Jaden McDaniels has high potential, he also plays a position of need. As MIN fan I would prefer to keep him.


Then replace him with Josh Okogie


I would do this type of deal a year ago. But AG has only one full year left in contract. I love his fit in MIN, but I doubt he would stay.
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Re: Assuming the Magic will not tank (at least not yet), what do you do now? 

Post#91 » by drsd » Sat Jan 9, 2021 9:46 am

The Magic just started Anthony, Bacon,Ennis, and Clark.

Can we start to questions Orlando's intentions to win games?

..
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Re: Assuming the Magic will not tank (at least not yet), what do you do now? 

Post#92 » by fendilim » Sat Jan 9, 2021 11:11 am

Skin wrote:If we don't tank, then fire WeHam.

If we tank, then fire WeHam.

In both cases they are incompetent in being able to show progression. 4 years in and we are still lead by Henny's guys and are in the same status.

At some point you have to think that WeHam are really old guys. We need somebody who are dynamic for us to rebuild.

Talent evaluation, we can use their experience, but managing teams and trading, we need someone with youth and vigor. Clearly WeHam is simply being outperformed by the younger generation who are more active and daring.
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Re: Assuming the Magic will not tank (at least not yet), what do you do now? 

Post#93 » by RookieStar » Sat Jan 9, 2021 11:41 am

fendilim wrote:
Skin wrote:If we don't tank, then fire WeHam.

If we tank, then fire WeHam.

In both cases they are incompetent in being able to show progression. 4 years in and we are still lead by Henny's guys and are in the same status.

At some point you have to think that WeHam are really old guys. We need somebody who are dynamic for us to rebuild.

Talent evaluation, we can use their experience, but managing teams and trading, we need someone with youth and vigor. Clearly WeHam is simply being outperformed by the younger generation who are more active and daring.


We did have a young firebrand of a GM who had an eye for talent....

He traded Dipo for the corpse of Ibaka and signed stonehamd bricks to that ridiculous contract. Talk about daring..
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Re: Assuming the Magic will not tank (at least not yet), what do you do now? 

Post#94 » by RookieStar » Sat Jan 9, 2021 11:42 am

drsd wrote:The Magic just started Anthony, Bacon,Ennis, and Clark.

Can we start to questions Orlando's intentions to win games?

..


* tank engine noise in the background *
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Re: Assuming the Magic will not tank (at least not yet), what do you do now? 

Post#95 » by KillMonger » Sat Jan 9, 2021 12:09 pm

drsd wrote:The Magic just started Anthony, Bacon,Ennis, and Clark.

Can we start to questions Orlando's intentions to win games?

..

to be fair they doing it out of necessity rather than choice
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Re: Assuming the Magic will not tank (at least not yet), what do you do now? 

Post#96 » by jonbob17 » Sat Jan 9, 2021 3:06 pm

KillMonger wrote:
drsd wrote:The Magic just started Anthony, Bacon,Ennis, and Clark.

Can we start to questions Orlando's intentions to win games?

..

to be fair they doing it out of necessity rather than choice



Assuming AG and Evan have legitimate injuries.
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Re: Assuming the Magic will not tank (at least not yet), what do you do now? 

Post#97 » by MoMM » Sat Jan 9, 2021 3:22 pm

jonbob17 wrote:
KillMonger wrote:
drsd wrote:The Magic just started Anthony, Bacon,Ennis, and Clark.

Can we start to questions Orlando's intentions to win games?

..

to be fair they doing it out of necessity rather than choice



Assuming AG and Evan have legitimate injuries.

Evan wasn't even playing before Fultz injury, so I believe he is injured (and it is a contract year for him).

As for AG, I assume that maybe he would be able to play, but they just assumed we would lose anyway, so it would be better to save him for the next game.
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Re: Assuming the Magic will not tank (at least not yet), what do you do now? 

Post#98 » by jonbob17 » Sat Jan 9, 2021 3:35 pm

MoMM wrote:
jonbob17 wrote:
KillMonger wrote:to be fair they doing it out of necessity rather than choice



Assuming AG and Evan have legitimate injuries.

Evan wasn't even playing before Fultz injury, so I believe he is injured (and it is a contract year for him).

As for AG, I assume that maybe he would be able to play, but they just assumed we would lose anyway, so it would be better to save him for the next game.


The are probably legit, but they may be extra-cautious because they can afford to at this point. We should be able to tell soon enough if guys are being held out a lot for little knicks and bruises.
Normally guys are playing through minor injuries all the time. AG was hurting for a good portion of the first half last year.
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Re: Assuming the Magic will not tank (at least not yet), what do you do now? 

Post#99 » by Magicfanatic82 » Sat Jan 9, 2021 4:02 pm

Would be nice to shift to a developmental approach. Use AG and Evan to replace with long term fits or projects.
Would New Orleans consalidate JJ and NAW for Evan?
AG can be shiped out to Boston for relief and draft capital.
Then focus on the youth in playing group.
Anthony/MCW/FA?
Reddick/NAW
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If opportunity comes to get something for Reddick/Aminu/Ennis/Birch take it.
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Re: Assuming the Magic will not tank (at least not yet), what do you do now? 

Post#100 » by basketballRob » Sat Jan 9, 2021 4:11 pm

drsd wrote:The Magic just started Anthony, Bacon,Ennis, and Clark.

Can we start to questions Orlando's intentions to win games?

..
It depends what they do tonight. I've been calling for them to tank one of the B2B games for a while. One, you get to see the young players. Two, you rest some players. I wouldn't be surprised to see the win tonight.

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