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2020-2021 Regular Season Game 10: Orlando Magic (6-3) at Dallas Mavericks (4-4)

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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 10: Orlando Magic (6-3) at Dallas Mavericks (4-4) 

Post#241 » by drsd » Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:31 pm

Knightro wrote:
Husky1 wrote:
Knightro wrote:


Just to be clear, I don’t think Bamba *should* be third string. I think he should be playing every night.

But Clifford clearly has his rotation and Bamba just flat out isn’t in it.

The only game the Bamba played non-garbage minutes this entire season, the Magic had four bigs out with injury.


Birch is going to play a huge amount of PF minutes. There is 10-15 minutes for Bamba already carved out. He just need to prove himself to get it to 20 mpg.
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 10: Orlando Magic (6-3) at Dallas Mavericks (4-4) 

Post#242 » by Knightro » Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:36 pm

drsd wrote:Birch is going to play a huge amount of PF minutes. There is 10-15 minutes for Bamba already carved out. He just need to prove himself to get it to 20 mpg.


This is just not true. Not yet anyway. There is zero indication that there’s 10-15 minutes a game already carved out for Bamba without the Magic suffering another injury or making trade.

If Clifford decides to go with Birch as the full time backup 4 and Bamba as the full time backup 5, that would mean he’s decided to bench Clark which he clearly has not done yet and has shown no willingness to do so.

We’ll see if that changes, but right now this is purely wishful thinking.
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 10: Orlando Magic (6-3) at Dallas Mavericks (4-4) 

Post#243 » by basketballRob » Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:50 pm

Knightro wrote:
drsd wrote:Birch is going to play a huge amount of PF minutes. There is 10-15 minutes for Bamba already carved out. He just need to prove himself to get it to 20 mpg.


This is just not true. Not yet anyway. There is zero indication that there’s 10-15 minutes a game already carved out for Bamba without the Magic suffering another injury or making trade.

If Clifford decides to go with Birch as the full time backup 4 and Bamba as the full time backup 5, that would mean he’s decided to bench Clark which he clearly has not done yet and has shown no willingness to do so.

We’ll see if that changes, but right now this is purely wishful thinking.
I really think the Magic should just write this season off and play the young guys. It's not worth having serious injuries to other players. The schedule this year is too tough and we don't have enough depth now.

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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 10: Orlando Magic (6-3) at Dallas Mavericks (4-4) 

Post#244 » by drsd » Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:28 pm

Knightro wrote:
drsd wrote:Birch is going to play a huge amount of PF minutes. There is 10-15 minutes for Bamba already carved out. He just need to prove himself to get it to 20 mpg.


This is just not true. Not yet anyway. There is zero indication that there’s 10-15 minutes a game already carved out for Bamba without the Magic suffering another injury or making trade.

If Clifford decides to go with Birch as the full time backup 4 and Bamba as the full time backup 5, that would mean he’s decided to bench Clark which he clearly has not done yet and has shown no willingness to do so.

We’ll see if that changes, but right now this is purely wishful thinking.


Birch and Vučević have shared court time this season.

..
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 10: Orlando Magic (6-3) at Dallas Mavericks (4-4) 

Post#245 » by Knightro » Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:51 pm

drsd wrote:
Knightro wrote:
drsd wrote:Birch is going to play a huge amount of PF minutes. There is 10-15 minutes for Bamba already carved out. He just need to prove himself to get it to 20 mpg.


This is just not true. Not yet anyway. There is zero indication that there’s 10-15 minutes a game already carved out for Bamba without the Magic suffering another injury or making trade.

If Clifford decides to go with Birch as the full time backup 4 and Bamba as the full time backup 5, that would mean he’s decided to bench Clark which he clearly has not done yet and has shown no willingness to do so.

We’ll see if that changes, but right now this is purely wishful thinking.


Birch and Vučević have shared court time this season.


They have, yes. I didn't say they haven't.

What I did say, which is accurate, is that there's not currently a path for Bamba to play non-garbage time unless Clifford actively decides to bench Gary Clark or another big man gets injured.
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 10: Orlando Magic (6-3) at Dallas Mavericks (4-4) 

Post#246 » by basketballRob » Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:01 pm

Knightro wrote:
drsd wrote:
Knightro wrote:
This is just not true. Not yet anyway. There is zero indication that there’s 10-15 minutes a game already carved out for Bamba without the Magic suffering another injury or making trade.

If Clifford decides to go with Birch as the full time backup 4 and Bamba as the full time backup 5, that would mean he’s decided to bench Clark which he clearly has not done yet and has shown no willingness to do so.

We’ll see if that changes, but right now this is purely wishful thinking.


Birch and Vučević have shared court time this season.


They have, yes. I didn't say they haven't.

What I did say, which is accurate, is that there's not currently a path for Bamba to play non-garbage time unless Clifford actively decides to bench Gary Clark or another big man gets injured.
Unless they just decide to start occasionally resting players.

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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 10: Orlando Magic (6-3) at Dallas Mavericks (4-4) 

Post#247 » by Knightro » Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:14 pm

Vucevic and Birch have played 52 minutes together and have a -21.4 NET rating which is, not surprisingly whatsoever, the worst 2-man NET rating of any Magic combo that has played at least 50 minutes together.

But it's also worth noting that the biggest single game chunk of those 52 minutes came in the Rockets game that Gordon didn't play. Which also, not coincidentally, is also the only game that Bamba has played non garbage time.
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 10: Orlando Magic (6-3) at Dallas Mavericks (4-4) 

Post#248 » by RookieStar » Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:50 pm

Knightro wrote:
drsd wrote:
Knightro wrote:
This is just not true. Not yet anyway. There is zero indication that there’s 10-15 minutes a game already carved out for Bamba without the Magic suffering another injury or making trade.

If Clifford decides to go with Birch as the full time backup 4 and Bamba as the full time backup 5, that would mean he’s decided to bench Clark which he clearly has not done yet and has shown no willingness to do so.

We’ll see if that changes, but right now this is purely wishful thinking.


Birch and Vučević have shared court time this season.


They have, yes. I didn't say they haven't.

What I did say, which is accurate, is that there's not currently a path for Bamba to play non-garbage time unless Clifford actively decides to bench Gary Clark or another big man gets injured.


Give it time. Im not saying about season-ending or 5 days off injuries but with Covid protocols, load management, the occasional injury and personal reasons, I think we will be able to see a Bamba/Birch combo ( as sad as it seems )
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 10: Orlando Magic (6-3) at Dallas Mavericks (4-4) 

Post#249 » by Landshark » Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:56 pm

Husky1 wrote:We need to tank but how can we have any confidence in Weltham picking the right player? As it looks now ( it can change) they have picked three absolute stinkers last three drafts when studs were available. We’re in all sorts

For all of Hennigan's faults, he could at least identify talent. We would have a core of Oladipo-Harris-Vuc with Gordon and maybe even Sabonis if he had chilled with the panic trades. I remember reading somewhere he would've picked Sabonis anyway w/o the Ibaka trade, and this was right after the draft before we knew he was good.

For Weltham, the draft flattens out after pick 10 or something.
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 10: Orlando Magic (6-3) at Dallas Mavericks (4-4) 

Post#250 » by RookieStar » Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:27 pm

Landshark wrote:
Husky1 wrote:We need to tank but how can we have any confidence in Weltham picking the right player? As it looks now ( it can change) they have picked three absolute stinkers last three drafts when studs were available. We’re in all sorts

For all of Hennigan's faults, he could at least identify talent. We would have a core of Oladipo-Harris-Vuc with Gordon and maybe even Sabonis if he had chilled with the panic trades. I remember reading somewhere he would've picked Sabonis anyway w/o the Ibaka trade, and this was right after the draft before we knew he was good.

For Weltham, the draft flattens out after pick 10 or something.


That was my opinion as well. Henny had an eye for talent. His only problem for me was he was too young for the post and thus other teams had no respect for him and his trades/decisions as well. Probably always trying to lowball or pressure Henny with lopsided deals. But eye for talent? He was top-notch.
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 10: Orlando Magic (6-3) at Dallas Mavericks (4-4) 

Post#251 » by Xatticus » Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:02 am

RookieStar wrote:
Landshark wrote:
Husky1 wrote:We need to tank but how can we have any confidence in Weltham picking the right player? As it looks now ( it can change) they have picked three absolute stinkers last three drafts when studs were available. We’re in all sorts

For all of Hennigan's faults, he could at least identify talent. We would have a core of Oladipo-Harris-Vuc with Gordon and maybe even Sabonis if he had chilled with the panic trades. I remember reading somewhere he would've picked Sabonis anyway w/o the Ibaka trade, and this was right after the draft before we knew he was good.

For Weltham, the draft flattens out after pick 10 or something.


That was my opinion as well. Henny had an eye for talent. His only problem for me was he was too young for the post and thus other teams had no respect for him and his trades/decisions as well. Probably always trying to lowball or pressure Henny with lopsided deals. But eye for talent? He was top-notch.


Hennigan was in over his head. He didn't have the courage of his convictions. He didn't handle free agency well either. His huge problem, however, was acquiescing to the hiring of Skiles. He lost control of the situation because that unprofessional, whiny prick had Martins' ear and our front office fell into disarray due to his power grabbing tantrums. For this reason, I supported Hennigan's firing by the end. He couldn't manage the environment he created. That said, I'd rather have Hennigan in charge of our organization right now and I don't mean that as a compliment towards his abilities. Injuries are not our problem. Believing that things are fine without injuries is our problem. Injuries are just the excuse for this front office's inaction.
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 10: Orlando Magic (6-3) at Dallas Mavericks (4-4) 

Post#252 » by RookieStar » Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:58 am

Xatticus wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
Landshark wrote:For all of Hennigan's faults, he could at least identify talent. We would have a core of Oladipo-Harris-Vuc with Gordon and maybe even Sabonis if he had chilled with the panic trades. I remember reading somewhere he would've picked Sabonis anyway w/o the Ibaka trade, and this was right after the draft before we knew he was good.

For Weltham, the draft flattens out after pick 10 or something.


That was my opinion as well. Henny had an eye for talent. His only problem for me was he was too young for the post and thus other teams had no respect for him and his trades/decisions as well. Probably always trying to lowball or pressure Henny with lopsided deals. But eye for talent? He was top-notch.


Hennigan was in over his head. He didn't have the courage of his convictions. He didn't handle free agency well either. His huge problem, however, was acquiescing to the hiring of Skiles. He lost control of the situation because that unprofessional, whiny prick had Martins' ear and our front office fell into disarray due to his power grabbing tantrums. For this reason, I supported Hennigan's firing by the end. He couldn't manage the environment he created. That said, I'd rather have Hennigan in charge of our organization right now and I don't mean that as a compliment towards his abilities. Injuries are not our problem. Believing that things are fine without injuries is our problem. Injuries are just the excuse for this front office's inaction.


So...SKiles? That means he gave in to the FO decision to hire a coach he doesnt support?
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 10: Orlando Magic (6-3) at Dallas Mavericks (4-4) 

Post#253 » by j-ragg » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:57 am

RookieStar wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
That was my opinion as well. Henny had an eye for talent. His only problem for me was he was too young for the post and thus other teams had no respect for him and his trades/decisions as well. Probably always trying to lowball or pressure Henny with lopsided deals. But eye for talent? He was top-notch.


Hennigan was in over his head. He didn't have the courage of his convictions. He didn't handle free agency well either. His huge problem, however, was acquiescing to the hiring of Skiles. He lost control of the situation because that unprofessional, whiny prick had Martins' ear and our front office fell into disarray due to his power grabbing tantrums. For this reason, I supported Hennigan's firing by the end. He couldn't manage the environment he created. That said, I'd rather have Hennigan in charge of our organization right now and I don't mean that as a compliment towards his abilities. Injuries are not our problem. Believing that things are fine without injuries is our problem. Injuries are just the excuse for this front office's inaction.


So...SKiles? That means he gave in to the FO decision to hire a coach he doesnt support?

Yes.
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 10: Orlando Magic (6-3) at Dallas Mavericks (4-4) 

Post#254 » by pepe1991 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:19 am

Hennigan failed because he married his career sucess as GM to Payton and Gordon. Future of every GM ends up falling on sucess or failure of few key players.
Banking on their potential. That's why everybody outside bubbble of fanbase and few level headed fans knew our PG position is disaster and we had no spacing.

I remember amount of confusion among non- Magic fans when he drafted Gordon and Payton after Oladipo. Oladipo was shaky shooter but Gordon and Payton were complete no-shooters. He kept pretending that shooting is something that can be developed over time.
Projected lineup for next year that offseason was Payton, Oladipo, Harris, Gordon and Vuc. 4 out of 5 players were flat out bad shooters.

2014-15 and our backup PG was Luke Ridnour, because, God forbid challenge rookie for a position. Just pick most worthless playable backup you can find. Things got so bad that Willie Green was part time backup PG.

Skiles wasn't his decison, but that's not suprising, JV was disaster who had no control over team.

Magic didn't build logical roster to this date, last 10 years. Hennigan had no shooting, Weltman went so far to said our shooting "isn't problem" so you have to question people over them, who hire them, because it's clear nobody understands modern basketball.
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 10: Orlando Magic (6-3) at Dallas Mavericks (4-4) 

Post#255 » by drsd » Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:05 am

RookieStar wrote:I think we will be able to see a Bamba/Birch combo ( as sad as it seems )


No team will score inside and the long-ball will be undefended from opponent bigs. I cannot wait!

PLUS: this really points out the depth of backcourt scoring the Magic has on the bench going forward.
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 10: Orlando Magic (6-3) at Dallas Mavericks (4-4) 

Post#256 » by j-ragg » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:48 pm

drsd wrote:
RookieStar wrote:I think we will be able to see a Bamba/Birch combo ( as sad as it seems )


No team will score inside and the long-ball will be undefended from opponent bigs. I cannot wait!

PLUS: this really points out the depth of backcourt scoring the Magic has on the bench going forward.

I wish I saw what you see.
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 10: Orlando Magic (6-3) at Dallas Mavericks (4-4) 

Post#257 » by drsd » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:07 pm

j-ragg wrote:
drsd wrote:
RookieStar wrote:I think we will be able to see a Bamba/Birch combo ( as sad as it seems )


No team will score inside and the long-ball will be undefended from opponent bigs. I cannot wait!

PLUS: this really points out the depth of backcourt scoring the Magic has on the bench going forward.

I wish I saw what you see.


???

i) That a Bamba / Birch combo would lead to a huge number of open jumpers for opponents and
ii) that Orlando's backcourt would not be able to make up for those two's offensive ineptitudes?


..
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 10: Orlando Magic (6-3) at Dallas Mavericks (4-4) 

Post#258 » by RookieStar » Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:43 pm

drsd wrote:
j-ragg wrote:
drsd wrote:
No team will score inside and the long-ball will be undefended from opponent bigs. I cannot wait!

PLUS: this really points out the depth of backcourt scoring the Magic has on the bench going forward.

I wish I saw what you see.


???

i) That a Bamba / Birch combo would lead to a huge number of open jumpers for opponents and
ii) that Orlando's backcourt would not be able to make up for those two's offensive ineptitudes?


..


Sounds about right.. or to quote Steph Curry " I see no lies "
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Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 10: Orlando Magic (6-3) at Dallas Mavericks (4-4) 

Post#259 » by Last Guardian » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:39 am

jonbob17 wrote:
Last Guardian wrote:
jonbob17 wrote:
I would have said zero chance before this year, but man Vuc Is turning it on. I don’t think he would work as well as with Doncic, but at least he is healthy.

You know who would be perfect next to KP is JI, but of course would be two of the biggest injury risks.


Interesting I think Vuc would be fantastic with Doncic, which is what made me think of it. Vuc would help them win now and is less of an injury concern.


I guess it is just a matter that I think a healthy KP is a much better player than Vuc. I think Vuc is great, but he doesn't demand double teams, the way KP does. In my eyes, KP/Doncic is a tier below Lebron/AD. Luka/KP are not the Pick'n'roll combo of Lebron/AD, but KP is a very skilled big like Davis. Vuc is very skilled as well. Again, Vuc's health would be the reason Dallas would prefer Vuc in my eyes, which is an extremely important attribute. Dallas surely doesn't want to waste any more of Doncic on a max salary out for year


I wouldn’t say much better. Definitely a far better rim protector which may overall put him over Vuc, but I would say Vuc is a bit better offensively. He goes inside more often and is more efficient while also being a similar level shooter

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