Is Tanking an option?

[drsd]

If we had Ennis back the team was enjoyable to watch. Fournier and AG both play selfish at times, and i enjoy team ball.

Ennis is on the wrong side of 30, but is not showing any declines so far. I am sure Management would be willing to offer him a vet-min to-year deal, if Ennis suggested he was inclined to consider that. But he might find a two-year 6M deal on the market, and the Magic is unlikely to "match" that kind of deal for Ennis, given that in the final year of such a deal, the 2022/23 season, he is nearly certain to be in decline physically.


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[basketballRob]

If we had Ennis back the team was enjoyable to watch. Fournier and AG both play selfish at times, and i enjoy team ball.

Ennis is on the wrong side of 30, but is not showing any declines so far. I am sure Management would be willing to offer him a vet-min to-year deal, if Ennis suggested he was inclined to consider that. But he might find a two-year 6M deal on the market, and the Magic is unlikely to "match" that kind of deal for Ennis, given that in the final year of such a deal, the 2022/23 season, he is nearly certain to be in decline physically.


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My point was that both AG and Fournier tend to hold the ball too much, instead of just shooting or passing. Players like Ennis just make the right play.



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[OrlMagic05]

This is the absolute best time to tank. How can 6 of you not think so?

I am one of the six and my vie is that this is a moo point. Orlando will not win more than 30% of its games through mid-March. Orlando will be a bottom-5 team without tanking.

You win ???

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As a Magic fan havent we learned our lesson yet? Most years we were 1 pick away from a "star" 2014- Embiid, 2015-Porzingas 2018- Trae aka Luka.. 2018 hurt the most because winning the last game of the season switched us and dallas for the 5th worst record. Imagine having Trae or Luka right now.. What is the point of winning when our entire core is out for the season? Might as well tank to have the best possible chance to land a top 3 pick.

[pepe1991]

Tbh we missed on more talents by drafting wrong guys than not tanking hard enough.
2013- Oladipo drafted second---McCullum, Giannis, Gobert go later
2014 Gordon, Payton--- Randle, Lavine, Tj Warren go later
2015 drafted Hezonja 5th---- Booker goes later.
2016 - only time they draft well... it turns out it's Sam Presti drafting for them
2017 drafted Isaac 6th---- Mitchell , Adebayo go late in lottery
2018 drafted Bamba 6th--- SGA , Sexston, Carter, Mitchell Robinson go later


IN theory they could have Giannis, Lavine, Devin Booker, Adebayo and Michell Robinson ( ofc this is not true because they would not end up being lottery team with GIannis and Booker running a show )

[MagicMatic]

Serious question. What sounds more ridiculous? Landing the perfect player via draft to compliment all of Orlando’s role players, or having a true rebuild comprised of multiple draft picks and young guys like every other small market organization?

I have yet to see an example of the former scenario working for a franchise like Orlando (those that can’t acquire big name free agents and have limited trade assets). One of us isn’t living in “reality” about how the league works. You do realize that there have been many iterations of a Vuc/Fournier led offense already over the course of many years.

It’s already been established in this very thread that it takes newly drafted players a few years to acclimate. With that In mind, are you saying Orlando is going to keep Vuc into his next contract and resign Fournier again? The definition of insanity.

I understand people love Vuc/Fournier because Orlando has lacked consistency on offense elsewhere for so long. Other teams have cut bait on much better players (OKC for example) knowing that there is no real end goal in sight. At some point you have to make decisions and stop thinking it’s everyone else that has to be replaced.

I appreciate the glass half full optimism with this roster. However, that safe approach has also gotten Orlando nowhere since Dwight was traded. I’m surprised people are ok with complacency.

Orlando is not going to trade its roster.

But Fournier and Ennis are UFAs. And it is hard imagining Gordon back given that Okeke is OKish and looks to fill that role. Bamba being picked up on a 10M option might be an "if" at this point. Whereas Aminu seems certain to pick up his player option, he could easily be traded. Clark needs to be waived before next season.

Returning for 2021/22, Orlando would be projected to only have Fultz, Anthony, Ross, Bacon, Okeke, Issac, Carter-Williams, and Vučević. That means half the roster will be replaced.
Returning for 2022/23, Orlando would be projected to only have Fultz, Anthony, Okeke, Ross, Issac, and Vučević. That's Orlando's current core. The "untradeables"; of course all players on this roster are tradeable, but these are players one can project Management to retain to build around.

My point is that half the roster will change for next year and only a core will be left in two years. This roster is ripe for structural change simply by how contracts align.

Right. Nobody is claiming that contracts aren’t a thing or that Orlando is going to trade every single player.

What I’m saying is we have been watching the Fournier and Vucevic show for almost a decade and people still find reasons to convince themselves that it’s all somehow going to miraculously work despite years of results. It’s not. It’s also never going to be a “rebuild” with a 30 year old Center making $26m a year working part time as Clifford’s crutch.

Orlando isn’t getting return value for anyone but AG and Vucevic. They aren’t likely trading rookies and the bench players that will just expire. Isaac is the only other player that has value, but this FO won’t trade him and half the other teams probably think he’s not worth investing in due to his injury history.

Right, my point wasn’t that “the roster won’t change”. That’s not the issue. My point was that they needed to move on from a Vucevic/Fournier led offense if you are reading between the lines. NOT 2 years from now, but 2 years ago. Other more successful teams know when to pull the trigger and make big boy decisions. Orlando hasn’t.

Of course most Magic fans like yourself believe every decision should be dictated by expiring contracts to enact structural change. You’ve been led to believe trades aren’t a thing, and that they should only happen as a reaction prior to players expiring if they are 1:1 value return. That in itself is comical considering the thread we are in and partly why Orlando hasn’t been successful in rebuilding.

[drsd]

My point was that they needed to move on from a Vucevic/Fournier led offense if you are reading between the lines. NOT 2 years from now, but 2 years ago. Other more successful teams know when to pull the trigger and make big boy decisions. Orlando hasn’t.

Of course most Magic fans like yourself believe every decision should be dictated by expiring contracts to enact structural change. You’ve been led to believe trades aren’t a thing, and that they should only happen as a reaction prior to players expiring if they aren’t 1:1 value return. That in itself is comical considering the thread we are in and partly why Orlando hasn’t been successful in rebuilding.

Fournier is unlikely to be a Magician from opening night next year. Vučević looks like he ill play out his contract to hold all substatial records in/for Orlando.

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[MagicMatic]

My point was that they needed to move on from a Vucevic/Fournier led offense if you are reading between the lines. NOT 2 years from now, but 2 years ago. Other more successful teams know when to pull the trigger and make big boy decisions. Orlando hasn’t.

Of course most Magic fans like yourself believe every decision should be dictated by expiring contracts to enact structural change. You’ve been led to believe trades aren’t a thing, and that they should only happen as a reaction prior to players expiring if they aren’t 1:1 value return. That in itself is comical considering the thread we are in and partly why Orlando hasn’t been successful in rebuilding.

Fournier is unlikely to be a Magician from opening night next year. Vučević looks like he ill play out his contract to hold all substatial records in/for Orlando.

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So Orlando decided against getting any value from Fournier and want to keep Vucevic around for reasons....sounds like great decision making.

[MagicStarwipe]

I'm afraid the Magic are getting to the point of Dirk/Mavs level loyalty with Vucevic (without the wins, MVP, championship, all-NBA and all star selections of course). I don't know if they can bring themselves to trade him at this point. They may wait for him to retire and make him an assistant coach.