Is Tanking an option?

[Last Guardian]

We are naturally bad there is not even a reason to debate about tanking. Now we just hope the odds favor us.

[drsd]

We are tanking by default

in this moment injury list:
PG: Fultz ( out for a year) - Cole Anthony ( yet to be figured)
SG: Evan Fourner ( day to day)
SF: Gordon ( 4-6 weeks) / MCW ( should return at some point within week or two )
PF :Isaac ( year ) / Aminu ( probably another 2 weeks or so )

I'm nba and sports fan for years, i have never seen sports team with 7 rotation players hurt ( if it's not some food poisoning or something minor like that ).


As far as trades goes, it all depends on where Fultz,Isaac are at with recovery. If first prognoses don't see them comming back up until calendar year of 2022 than there is no reason to keep Vuc because next year is another waste.

Evan should be traded regardless due contract situation and Gordon should be shopped hard, his health is getting worst every year and how he plays, his game won't age well.

And-1. Plus I add this:

Chuma Okeke has missed 16 games.
Mo Bamba has missed 16 games (although not all to injury/illness).
James Ennis has missed 7 games.
Gary Clark has missed 3 games (although I do not believe to injury).
Terrence Ross has missed a game.

adding that to your list:
Carter-Williams has missed 18 games.
Fultz has missed 17 games
Anthony - none yet. But this could be a lot.
Fournier has missed 11 games.
Gordon has missed 6 games.
Aminu has missed 24 games.
Isaac has missed 25 games.


The arrhythmic here is 144 missed games in total.
As the Magic has played 25 games, that means 5.76 players are missing per game played.

This is getting so bad that Orlando had to waive a two-way player to reset the games available for another two-way player.

Spoiler:

AND still Bamba does not play.

..

[drsd]

I just got ill writing the above.

[Statlanta]

No as long as Vuc is on the roster and even then why should we if non of our draft picks even stay healthy enough to play

[PrimeThyme]

The only thing that makes this year a bit different for me is the fact that it's a condensed season. Normally, I would say no because we would decide to stand pat at the deadline, our guys would come back healthy, and then we would win meaningless games at the end of the year to try and cultivate Weltman's idea of a "winning culture" when in reality we just shot ourselves in the foot and missed out on franchise-changing talent.

Those things will still probably happen, but with a condensed schedule, I'm not sure if we can manage to **** it up as easily as we have in the past. There are still no guarantees though.

This is a bad team, but if they get AG/Fournier back at full health I still wouldn't consider top 5 odds a lock.

[jonbob17]

Ever since the Isaac injury it was the only option for those interested in championships.

Even if they weren’t interested in young players just think he valuable a trade chip a top 3 pick would be.

[AdamTheGreek]

It would be dumb at this point for our front office to not go for a 3-month long tank now.

Even with Vooch healthy, because of all of the other roster injuries, we have the 4th worst record in the NBA today. That's not Nik's fault, we literally lead the league in games missed due to injury (by a wide margin).

Two of our big young pieces are out until next season (Fultz and Isaac).
Say what you will about AG, but he's our best defender available this season, he's been a great catch-and-shoot shooter, and he was at times playing backup ball-handler over the past month. He's out 4-to-6 weeks at min. In a tank, you can prolong that period. If you want to trade AG, do it in the summer, especially if you want to come up for a package like Beal.
Fournier has no future in Orlando. Trade him by the March 25th deadline. WeltHamm waited too long to deal Evan. Now, because of the back spasms, there's not much value I'd expect in return since he's a free agent in the summer.



What are you playing for? Maybe a spot in the play-in? Who wins in that situation? Chuma and Cole are rookies, they can live with missing the playoffs their first go around, especially if they're starting the rest of the season.
Seat/fan revenue? Amway Center still only allows 4,000 fans in. Plus, in a play-in situation, we're not hosting games.

Weltman, Hammond, and Clifford all have expiring contracts after the 2021-2022 season. Tank for 3 months, that's it, it's not 3 seasons. 3 months in a chaotic, COVID-19 impacted 72-game season.

Then you come out of it with Isaac, Fultz, Vooch, Chuma, Cole, a top-5 pick in what's supposed to be a stacked 2021 class.
Hopefully you can get a young talent and/or pick(s) for Fournier and Ross. In the summer, you can trade AG, Bamba, and/or Aminu's expiring with picks of our own for that go-to wing scorer.
If we're healthy, that's a guaranteed playoff team on the rise.

[Xatticus]

I'm growing to hate this word because of the ignorance that goes along with it. Nobody is ever trying to lose. You simply prioritize trying to win at some point further into the future. This means acquiring and developing players that will contribute several years into the future while increasing the quality of talent available to you in the draft. You aren't playing young players with the intention of losing games. You are playing young players because they will be better at a point in time when you have some reasonable chance at being competitive.

This front office is actively sabotaging the future of this franchise by chasing short-term affirmation with some token playoff appearances. This franchise didn't really earn playoff appearances the last couple years. They simply laid claim to the vacant slots in the Eastern Conference the last couple years. This might seem like a meaningless distinction, but if winning half of your regular season games is difficult, then you are deluding yourself in thinking you are playing meaningful basketball.

Look at our roster and ask yourself where these players will be in three years' time. The future is bleak. Advocating for change isn't advocating incompetence. It isn't hoping for defeat. It is acknowledgement of the futility of this roster and the necessity of a sea change to salvage the future. Rebuilding isn't an option. It's a necessity. It has to happen at some point. I can't understand why there is such fear. We have nothing to lose. We have seen half the league rebuild and pass us by while we lament the potentialities of our own while clinging to the same sorry cast that has failed to lift this franchise from the muck.

[drsd]

Look at our roster and ask yourself where these players will be in three years' time.

Before Fultz went down, I was high on this roster. I had Homeristic visions of Fultz hitting a 35% three-ball on 4 attempts a game. That Fournier's contract and Gordon would be coupled to a dominant wing player (example: Beal), that Isaac would regain to 100%, and that Vučević would still have three-more years in his glory days of capacity. Add to that a 5th starter on the wing there to set picks and be scrappy (a Danny Green type), I saw the Magic as potentially having a championship starting five.

Now: I am not sure that Fultz or Isaac will return to expectations, the Wing looks ever worsening in potential trades and acquisitions, and Vučević is well Vuc. He will carry on carrying on. (He must already be the Magician with the most Magic-career losses).

Frankly a fully healthy 2021/22 Magic is for me a probably 41-41 roster with 70-seed upside.

Is it management fault that Isaac and Fultz are injured? A little bit. Both players have known injury issues. We fans should not take these ACL tears as a complete shock. Same with Gordon. How many games has he missed because of muscular and leg-related issues? Feel like about 50 so far.


..

[drsd]

Read on Twitter

Came across this and realized how accurate this is. We are currently at #7.

[I Rasharted]

No, not an option.

Only option is for a capped out gentleman’s sweep.

[Last Guardian]

#4 seems a bit off, have we ever had that many 7 foot players? lol. Everything else is spot on though.

[OrlMagic05]

This is the absolute best time to tank. How can 6 of you not think so?

[drsd]

This is the absolute best time to tank. How can 6 of you not think so?

I am one of the six and my vie is that this is a moo point. Orlando will not win more than 30% of its games through mid-March. Orlando will be a bottom-5 team without tanking.

You win ???

..

[basketballRob]

This is the absolute best time to tank. How can 6 of you not think so?

I am one of the six and my vie is that this is a moo point. Orlando will not win more than 30% of its games through mid-March. Orlando will be a bottom-5 team without tanking.

You win ???

..

I wish the season was over in March.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[purpleswordfish]

I feel like it's not a choice for the Magic right now. Fully healthy, the current roster is a fringe playoff team. With all of the injuries, the results speak for themselves. 2-8 in the last ten games.

[drsd]

I feel like it's not a choice for the Magic right now. Fully healthy, the current roster is a fringe playoff team. With all of the injuries, the results speak for themselves. 2-8 in the last ten games.

For one of those wins, Vučević was in god mode. There simply is neither talent nor depth for the Magic to consistently win games.

But Aminu and Carter-Williams will return at some point, and then Gordon comes back in mid-March. From there a return to a 40% win rate might occur (driving the pro-Tankers mad).


..

[Skybox]

What does tanking even mean to each of you? I think this is a bit like Dem/Repub...we're probably more aligned than we know. I'm for losing games organically, resting vets like Vuc, developing young guys, trading vets like Gordon and Evan (who don't really have a future here due to fit or $$$). Look for undeveloped, underutilized, or even injured players who are possibly undervalued or would fit better with us. Consider trading anyone for the right deal, with the focus on fit and a quick return to relevance. I love "Moneyball", figure out WHAT you need, not who you need, and then look for angles to achieve it. Take advantage of having your two young "cornerstone"(Just a word, I they're not untouchable-by a long shot)players on the DL anyway. ..IF that's "tanking" I'm for it.

If you mean "heart and hustle" , unload EVERY committed contract you can, regardless of return, in a full-fledged nose dive to have as few financial commitments as possible and as many draft picks as possible, so you can chase free agents...that's fool's gold, IMO. The draft is hugely important, but too big a crapshoot (both lottery and baby players) to put ALL of your emphasis on. Free agency isn't like it used to be either, megateams seem to be formulated by stars even BEFORE they become UFA and having the money available doesn't guarantee stars at all anymore.

[ARandomStranger]

While I would much rather be winning than losing games, it is clearly in the best interest of this team to just lose now, and call this season a wash. We can still get better odds at #1 and to be honest this might be a blessing in disguise for us as we all know there was no way that this FO was going to do anything flashy. Instead if we luck into #1, we can actually do something as opposed to tread water for another year. So yeah, tanking is probably the only option unless if something major happens in terms of trades or what not to right the ship.

[MagicMatic]

What does tanking even mean to each of you? I think this is a bit like Dem/Repub...we're probably more aligned than we know. I'm for losing games organically, resting vets like Vuc, developing young guys, trading vets like Gordon and Evan (who don't really have a future here due to fit or $$$). Look for undeveloped, underutilized, or even injured players who are possibly undervalued or would fit better with us. Consider trading anyone for the right deal, with the focus on fit and a quick return to relevance. I love "Moneyball", figure out WHAT you need, not who you need, and then look for angles to achieve it. Take advantage of having your two young "cornerstone"(Just a word, I they're not untouchable-by a long shot)players on the DL anyway. ..IF that's "tanking" I'm for it.

If you mean "heart and hustle" , unload EVERY committed contract you can, regardless of return, in a full-fledged nose dive to have as few financial commitments as possible and as many draft picks as possible, so you can chase free agents...that's fool's gold, IMO. The draft is hugely important, but too big a crapshoot (both lottery and baby players) to put ALL of your emphasis on. Free agency isn't like it used to be either, megateams seem to be formulated by stars even BEFORE they become UFA and having the money available doesn't guarantee stars at all anymore.

People get confused by the term.

“Tanking” is done primarily at the Front Office and ownership level. Coaches and players will never lose on purpose. It doesn’t matter what fans think or want.

It’s a strategy that means putting the roster in a position to acquire better talent. This is done by trading vets, playing youth, and getting investment assets return for years down the line.

OKC just did this successfully. They are remaining competitive and not sacrificing all draft position because they traded for multiple picks. They own Houston’s first (currently 11-14). So instead of watching Westbrook, Adams, and PG get bounced in the first round for 2-3 more seasons, they now get to rebuild by being realistic with their position. You could argue they are even a more exciting team to watch. Orlando refuses to do this with lesser players, in a worse conference, with worse results.

It doesn’t matter if the draft is a crapshoot. Why? Because there aren’t any other options for a team like Orlando. You take that chance 10/10 times or you are left watching the same failing core of players for 7 years.

Free agency isn’t viable for Orlando right now (non-homers don’t need the explanation as to why). Trading in this scenario requires value for value unless the FO absolutely won’t “lose” a trade. This idea matters less if they believed tanking as a strategy was the best option. Why? Because the initial idea isn’t to get 1:1 production replacement at face value. It’s an investment and roster strategy for down the road if only to match salary.

Orlando is bad enough without a tanking directive from the incompetent FO. It took acts of god for Orlando to potentially earn a top 3 pick in a loaded class. We’ll see if it happens.