2020-2021 Regular Season Game 28: Orlando Magic (10-17) at Phoenix Suns (16-9)

[Tarheel]

Okeke won't be a star. His ceiling to me is a Robert Covington type player, which (if he reaches that) is a pretty good pickup in the mid-first round and a valuable guy to have.

I like that he's one of the few players on the team that has half a basketball brain. Long-term, I prefer him to AG for that reason.

In any event he's played like 10 games, so proclaiming him a bust or the next Jimmy Butler are both pretty premature at this point.

[pepe1991]

Okeke won't be a star. His ceiling to me is a Robert Covington type player, which (if he reaches that) is a pretty good pickup in the mid-first round and a valuable guy to have.

I like that he's one of the few players on the team that has half a basketball brain. Long-term, I prefer him to AG for that reason.

In any event he's played like 10 games, so proclaiming him a bust or the next Jimmy Butler are both pretty premature at this point.

Nobody proclaimed him Butler or bust, we just had argument about semantics and what "18-26 bench player" means and is it bad
Me and Tiderulz always have debates without any bad blood

[tiderulz]

Complete lack of context and it's always Ariza that people brought, it's hilarious to me actually.

Seven years into his nba career and he was 33,3% three point shooter on... oh wait... on 2,2 threes a game. Now the kicker: league's avearge that year was 18 threes a game. So him being 2,6% below average, yet only making 0,7 threes a game was irrelevant to context of basketball that was played back then. He was great individual defender who could make wide open 3 from time to time, in league nobody was shooting 3s.
But even more context, 9 of 30 NBA teams that year took less than 16 threes a game.

Do you know how many nba teams this year take less than 26 threes? Zero.

I actually like Okeke, i just don't see anything for him in store when it comes to expending role past -role player. That's my opinion.




This is very dumb attemp to piggybank on inncorect point, making case against you. Jimmy Butler was drafted by team that won most games in nba that year and who logged 42 DNP-CDs that year.
Or you were too lazy to fact check yourself and see that he didn't really "shot" 18% for 3, he literally took 11 threes whole season
Btw , don't tell anybody, but Jimmy Butler last year, in season he took Heat to nba finals, shot 24% for 3, and this year he shoots 15%.
Soo, one would tell...his 3 point shot never really got much better. And yes, he is career 33% for 3, but he was never good jumpshooter.

I don't know how can anybody with straight face tell that Butler isn't elite athlete. At nba combined he had one of the highests vertical leaps that year, measured at 39 inches.

I get what you tried to say, bout your examples were really, really terrible.

Btw, once again, i don't think Okeke "sucks", since a day we drafted him i always thought he will be solid addition to a roster ,i just don't see "star". And i still don't understand why you get so worked up with my " bench player " label. As i have said, there are pleny of great bench players in nba.

its not about Butler shooting low 3 pt %. he improved many parts of his game after age 22. Ben Wallace is another example of late bloomer. Dennis Rodman, Kyle Lowry, Doug Christie, Sam Cassell, Chauncey Billups, Bruce Bowen, Steve Nash, Stockton.

Yes, there are more failure than those that improve, but there are enough that have improved that you dont just completely discount it

Did they improve, or just didn't get a chance to showcase in first place ? Butler is obviously second one. He, even in second year wasn't used at all in first two months, but after injuries ( mostly by Thib running players to the ground) started to get some PT and showcased talent for first time.
Bowen was always same player, for vast majority of teams his skillset ( defense, nothing else) wasn't that useful. Same could be saif for Ben Wallace and Tyson Chandler.

Nash was backup to Hall of famer in his prime, Jason Kidd. Ofc he didn't play much.
Billups had ugly efficiency numbers as rookie, but averaged 11ppg. In second year and through his third year he had nasty shoulder injury i think? Esencially, landing on Minessota, on team that had 2 times allstar PG Terrell Brandon.
Lowry was also hurt during basically whole rookie year.

Most of this is situations and injuries more than anything "development" related. Do you think Minessota developed Malik Bealey, or Pistons over 2 months "developed" Grant? They went from 5th, 6th offensive options to 20 ppg overs course of what ? 1 day, 60 days?
Situation and usage matter.

they improved, including Butler. they improved stats across the board. Oh, Nash started 40 games in Dallas in 98-99 and put up 8 ppg, put up 8.6 ppg the next year. Those were not years behind Kidd, he left Kidd in PHX. Benn Wallace didnt have a valuable skillset? cmon man. im done, go ahead and continue to make your proclamations about kids 10 games into their career.

[pepe1991]

its not about Butler shooting low 3 pt %. he improved many parts of his game after age 22. Ben Wallace is another example of late bloomer. Dennis Rodman, Kyle Lowry, Doug Christie, Sam Cassell, Chauncey Billups, Bruce Bowen, Steve Nash, Stockton.

Yes, there are more failure than those that improve, but there are enough that have improved that you dont just completely discount it

Did they improve, or just didn't get a chance to showcase in first place ? Butler is obviously second one. He, even in second year wasn't used at all in first two months, but after injuries ( mostly by Thib running players to the ground) started to get some PT and showcased talent for first time.
Bowen was always same player, for vast majority of teams his skillset ( defense, nothing else) wasn't that useful. Same could be saif for Ben Wallace and Tyson Chandler.

Nash was backup to Hall of famer in his prime, Jason Kidd. Ofc he didn't play much.
Billups had ugly efficiency numbers as rookie, but averaged 11ppg. In second year and through his third year he had nasty shoulder injury i think? Esencially, landing on Minessota, on team that had 2 times allstar PG Terrell Brandon.
Lowry was also hurt during basically whole rookie year.

Most of this is situations and injuries more than anything "development" related. Do you think Minessota developed Malik Bealey, or Pistons over 2 months "developed" Grant? They went from 5th, 6th offensive options to 20 ppg overs course of what ? 1 day, 60 days?
Situation and usage matter.

they improved, including Butler. they improved stats across the board. Oh, Nash started 40 games in Dallas in 98-99 and put up 8 ppg, put up 8.6 ppg the next year. Those were not years behind Kidd, he left Kidd in PHX. Benn Wallace didnt have a valuable skillset? cmon man. im done, go ahead and continue to make your proclamations about kids 10 games into their career.

Nash was diagnosed with Degenerative spondylolisthesis during Dallas stint, but after he agrivated it by being miss-diagnosed, and Dallas doctors actually "saved" his career. Took time and therapy to get life back on track, let alone basketball.

http://instreetclothes.com/2014/10/24/retrospective-look-steve-nash-injuries-endured/

you have huge Nash restorspective article about Nash with detailed situation in Dallas.


Ben Wallace, come on man, he was never that talented, just hard worker who found his niche with right team. Most teams had no real value of center who has no post game, is 6'8, can't shoot, can't make FTs,has stone hands. We talk about player who was allstar averaging 6,9 ppg. Marcus Camby was always better center than him, people don't ever mention him because he never won ring, nor anybody would ever even mention Ben if he didn't won ring. And they only won ring because Kobe and Shaq tried to kill each other.
In 2006-7 he left and they replaced him with Nazr Mohammed and still won 53 games and went to ECF without Ben. Ben went to Chicago and got swept in first round.
He was excellent at what he did, but what he did was only beneficial to teams that could work around his non existing offense.