Latest Magic Trade Rumors (Kevin O'Connor/The Ringer)

[tiderulz]

No one is giving you a lottery pick for him. You can just take that out of the equation. Take a look at the teams that are rumored to want him. You really think Riley and Danny are trying unload talent or draft picks that are worth anything? Hell no. They are trying to get him and keep their assets. Look at their histories.

Telling you, we’re better off keeping him, unloading Fournier and AG and adding to Vuch and JI than unloading him.

And in my previous post i did say i wouldnt trade him for a bag of peanuts, but I do believe if the Hornets offer us their unprotected 1st which is only 3 games out from being a bottom 5 pick we take it. I dont want anything from the Heat that isnt Herro which isnt going to happen. My point is, Magic fans overvalue Vuc as if he was some superstar. He is a good role player, but once again will never fit our timeline. If the price is right ship him away.

You really believe the Hornets are going to give you an unprotected lottery pick for Vuch?

people act like an unprotected pick equals #1 or #2 pick. Charlotte's pick right now is a non-lottery pick and add Vuc and goes even higher.

[Blue_and_Whte]

I mean we signed Vuc as a FA by offering him more money than anybody else. We could have gotten any number of guys last offseason, we just didn't have any money. if we have money we can sign people, better than Bacon or Ennis or MCW or Clark

What does this even mean? Which players that wanted to sign here are you referencing?

Players want money. Whoever gives them the most is where they are going to go most of the time, especially when you are talking about non-max players (max guys multiple teams offer the same amount)

Our big FA signings recently, Vuc , AG and Ross. We offered them the most money. That is how you sign guys to contracts. Give them the most money. Throw Fournier in there too. Even though AG and Fournier were restricted free agents, did you hear about us matching offer sheets? No, we just offered them the most.

That’s not entirely true. Players likely also consider the composition and location of the team. Again which players are you referencing?

[jonbob17]

What does this even mean? Which players that wanted to sign here are you referencing?

Players want money. Whoever gives them the most is where they are going to go most of the time, especially when you are talking about non-max players (max guys multiple teams offer the same amount)

Our big FA signings recently, Vuc , AG and Ross. We offered them the most money. That is how you sign guys to contracts. Give them the most money. Throw Fournier in there too. Even though AG and Fournier were restricted free agents, did you hear about us matching offer sheets? No, we just offered them the most.

That’s not entirely true. Players likely also consider the composition and location of the team. Again which players are you referencing?

I am referencing the free agents we have signed. Do you have any information suggesting we didn't offer those free agents the most money, and they took less to sign here? I am not saying someone has ever turned down more money to sign somewhere they feel comfortable, but there is zero evidence that our guys did. Vuc's market was estimated to be lower than we signed him to, we just made the market, which is fine, the deal has turned out fine.

[89Magicfan]

And in my previous post i did say i wouldnt trade him for a bag of peanuts, but I do believe if the Hornets offer us their unprotected 1st which is only 3 games out from being a bottom 5 pick we take it. I dont want anything from the Heat that isnt Herro which isnt going to happen. My point is, Magic fans overvalue Vuc as if he was some superstar. He is a good role player, but once again will never fit our timeline. If the price is right ship him away.

You really believe the Hornets are going to give you an unprotected lottery pick for Vuch?

people act like an unprotected pick equals #1 or #2 pick. Charlotte's pick right now is a non-lottery pick and add Vuc and goes even higher.

Doesn’t matter. The lottery odds have changed. There’s a chance that pick can jump to top 3. Even if it doesn’t, a first rounder holds a ton of value in a strong draft. Hornets are not going to add that pick. If they were to add a pick to any deal, I’d be willing to bet it’s a future 1st or probably a 2nd.

[The Effect]

You really believe the Hornets are going to give you an unprotected lottery pick for Vuch?

people act like an unprotected pick equals #1 or #2 pick. Charlotte's pick right now is a non-lottery pick and add Vuc and goes even higher.

Doesn’t matter. The lottery odds have changed. There’s a chance that pick can jump to top 3. Even if it doesn’t, a first rounder holds a ton of value in a strong draft. Hornets are not going to add that pick.

Not if they make the playoffs it cant

[89Magicfan]

people act like an unprotected pick equals #1 or #2 pick. Charlotte's pick right now is a non-lottery pick and add Vuc and goes even higher.

Doesn’t matter. The lottery odds have changed. There’s a chance that pick can jump to top 3. Even if it doesn’t, a first rounder holds a ton of value in a strong draft. Hornets are not going to add that pick.

Not if they make the playoffs it cant

Right but then we go back to what I original stated which is Vuch is worth more to us than what we we get back. In that scenario it would be a late pick which has little potential to be much of an asset to the win loss column.

I just don’t see any scenario where trading Vuch helps us unless a team is just dumb or there’s a disgruntled star wanting out and wants to come here.

[Blue_and_Whte]

I’m trying to wrap my head around some of these deals for Vuc. We got one all star. We suck anyways but some of y’all want to give up that one all star for some bench players so we can continue to suck and hopefully land a future all star in draft instead of just adding that potential future all star with the one all star we already have?!

Yeah...Welcome to the Magic board... A quick summary Vooch is to blame for everything for the last 7 years and net rating is the end all stat.

I dont think any Magic fan is blaming Vuc, but in reality he is not going to lead us anywhere. If you want to be a mediocre team for the next 5 years than lets keep Vuc. The problem with Vuc is, he does not fit the timeline of this team and by the time/if we start competing for anything more than the 8th seed, he will be pushing 35. To me you try and cash in when the value is high which is now, but I am not saying lets trade him for a bag of peanuts either. This is the perfect year for us to tank and so many Magic fans still are anti tank... I dont know about you, but I am tired of being mediocre and having a boring team to watch. I'd rather take the chance and blow it up and try for a high pick this year and give the young guys a chance.

Didn’t you know? Pepe is a fan of Vucevic first and the Magic second. Who cares about results of the last 7 years. Vuc is an allstar reserve for a team with zero dynamic offense capability.

It’s like one of the primary reasons given. Why do we need to blow it up for a high draft pick when we’ll likely already have a high draft pick? Simply Moving Fournier and AG makes us worse. Although everyone outside of JI, Fultz, Cole and Chuma IMO should be on the block there’s Absolutely no reason or rush to move Vooch. We could get everyone back healthy, with a high pick and an established all star next season. Or they blow it up and we suck for another 7 years then people can pick another player to blame it on.

[jonbob17]

Doesn’t matter. The lottery odds have changed. There’s a chance that pick can jump to top 3. Even if it doesn’t, a first rounder holds a ton of value in a strong draft. Hornets are not going to add that pick.

Not if they make the playoffs it cant

Right but then we go back to what I original stated which is Vuch is worth more to us than what we we get back. In that scenario it would be a late pick which has little potential to be much of an asset to the win loss column.

I just don’t see any scenario where trading Vuch helps us unless a team is just dumb or there’s a disgruntled star wanting out and wants to come here.

Why do you think Vuc is worth more to the Magic than anybody else?

[Blue_and_Whte]

Players want money. Whoever gives them the most is where they are going to go most of the time, especially when you are talking about non-max players (max guys multiple teams offer the same amount)

Our big FA signings recently, Vuc , AG and Ross. We offered them the most money. That is how you sign guys to contracts. Give them the most money. Throw Fournier in there too. Even though AG and Fournier were restricted free agents, did you hear about us matching offer sheets? No, we just offered them the most.

That’s not entirely true. Players likely also consider the composition and location of the team. Again which players are you referencing?

I am referencing the free agents we have signed. Do you have any information suggesting we didn't offer those free agents the most money, and they took less to sign here? I am not saying someone has ever turned down more money to sign somewhere they feel comfortable, but there is zero evidence that our guys did. Vuc's market was estimated to be lower than we signed him to, we just made the market, which is fine, the deal has turned out fine.

in your op you suggested that signing Vooch prevented us from signing “any number of players” WHAT. PLAYERS. ARE. YOU. TALKING. ABOUT. Nobody in here said anyone on this team took less to stay here. Also you’re 100% incorrect. Vooch was signed at market value.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Not if they make the playoffs it cant

Right but then we go back to what I original stated which is Vuch is worth more to us than what we we get back. In that scenario it would be a late pick which has little potential to be much of an asset to the win loss column.

I just don’t see any scenario where trading Vuch helps us unless a team is just dumb or there’s a disgruntled star wanting out and wants to come here.

Why do you think Vuc is worth more to the Magic than anybody else?

You mean other than Miami, SA, Cha, and Boston.. and those are just the ones we know of.

[89Magicfan]

Not if they make the playoffs it cant

Right but then we go back to what I original stated which is Vuch is worth more to us than what we we get back. In that scenario it would be a late pick which has little potential to be much of an asset to the win loss column.

I just don’t see any scenario where trading Vuch helps us unless a team is just dumb or there’s a disgruntled star wanting out and wants to come here.

Why do you think Vuc is worth more to the Magic than anybody else?

Because of what we’d get in return. Because the teams that want him or should want him are teams already competing just need a piece like Vuch and if they give up anything of real significance, they would be making a lateral move if not a step back.

Take Boston for instance. They aren’t going to give us Tatum, Brown or Kemba so what does that leave us? A bunch of bench players who might be turn into solid role players? That would be a losing deal for us.

Miami, they’re not giving us Bam, Herro, or Butler so then what? Bench players?

We already are on path for a high draft pick. We have one all star. Stay the path, add to what we have, get healthier and get better. Trading Vuch for other teams third tiers doesn’t do that for us.

[89Magicfan]

Right but then we go back to what I original stated which is Vuch is worth more to us than what we we get back. In that scenario it would be a late pick which has little potential to be much of an asset to the win loss column.

I just don’t see any scenario where trading Vuch helps us unless a team is just dumb or there’s a disgruntled star wanting out and wants to come here.

Why do you think Vuc is worth more to the Magic than anybody else?

You mean other than Miami, SA, Cha, and Boston.. and those are just the ones we know of.

Who else would want or need him? He’s an all star not a franchise star. He’s not going to turn some bottom dweller into a 50 win championship team so why would such a team trade for him? Why would a team trade a high pick in this draft for him? Why would such a team trade any young talent for him?

He’s a piece to a good team that needs a piece. Which is why teams such as Boston want him. However they are not giving up talent or high draft picks. You’re getting their bottom end talent. They want to remain or elevate their status. Not rearrange it. Thus, he’s more valuable to us than to trade him. In most realistic scenarios

[jonbob17]

Right but then we go back to what I original stated which is Vuch is worth more to us than what we we get back. In that scenario it would be a late pick which has little potential to be much of an asset to the win loss column.

I just don’t see any scenario where trading Vuch helps us unless a team is just dumb or there’s a disgruntled star wanting out and wants to come here.

Why do you think Vuc is worth more to the Magic than anybody else?

You mean other than Miami, SA, Cha, and Boston.. and those are just the ones we know of.

If he was worth more to them then he would be on one of those teams by now.

[MagicMatic]

Yeah...Welcome to the Magic board... A quick summary Vooch is to blame for everything for the last 7 years and net rating is the end all stat.

I dont think any Magic fan is blaming Vuc, but in reality he is not going to lead us anywhere. If you want to be a mediocre team for the next 5 years than lets keep Vuc. The problem with Vuc is, he does not fit the timeline of this team and by the time/if we start competing for anything more than the 8th seed, he will be pushing 35. To me you try and cash in when the value is high which is now, but I am not saying lets trade him for a bag of peanuts either. This is the perfect year for us to tank and so many Magic fans still are anti tank... I dont know about you, but I am tired of being mediocre and having a boring team to watch. I'd rather take the chance and blow it up and try for a high pick this year and give the young guys a chance.

Didn’t you know? Pepe is a fan of Vucevic first and the Magic second. Who cares about results of the last 7 years. Vuc is an allstar reserve for a team with zero dynamic offense capability.

It’s like one of the primary reasons given. Why do we need to blow it up for a high draft pick when we’ll likely already have a high draft pick? Simply Moving Fournier and AG makes us worse. Although everyone outside of JI, Fultz, Cole and Chuma IMO should be on the block there’s Absolutely no reason or rush to move Vooch. We could get everyone back healthy, with a high pick and an established all star next season. Or they blow it up and we suck for another 7 years then people can pick another player to blame it on.

Who blamed Vuc for the last 7 years? Thats a bit dramatic. I was pointing out he was one of the only options on offense, hence he is entirely capable of 18-22fga per game. You give 80% of players that kind of green light and they will capitalize on it. Similar to Twolves Kevin Love circa 2010-2014 he's a good stats bad team guy.

None of it resulted in anything substantial for the organization whatsoever, unless you hold allstar appearances for lottery teams in high regard.

[jonbob17]

Because of what we’d get in return. Because the teams that want him or should want him are teams already competing just need a piece like Vuch and if they give up anything of real significance, they would be making a lateral move if not a step back.

Take Boston for instance. They aren’t going to give us Tatum, Brown or Kemba so what does that leave us? A bunch of bench players who might be turn into solid role players? That would be a losing deal for us.

Miami, they’re not giving us Bam, Herro, or Butler so then what? Bench players?

We already are on path for a high draft pick. We have one all star. Stay the path, add to what we have, get healthier and get better. Trading Vuch for other teams third tiers doesn’t do that for us.

He's a piece of the puzzle in these other places. He is not going to get the kind of usage he gets here. He won't put up the same stats.
He's our best player, by a pretty good measure at the moment, and that is our problem. We lack talent.
I will believe we are on a path for a high pick when moves are made, until then the primary focus is still on grinding out wins.

I guess the point is with Vuc, that he is more important to our team than any other team because the amount he produces given our team construct. We over value him based on that production (at least as fans) and probably the front office, and there is probably no chance anyone would would meet that demand. Which is fine, we just need to find a way to get better players if we want to win more games. If we are satisfied with chasing a winning record each year, Vuc is perfect player to build around, and a good enough number 1

[jonbob17]

in your op you suggested that signing Vooch prevented us from signing “any number of players” WHAT. PLAYERS. ARE. YOU. TALKING. ABOUT. Nobody in here said anyone on this team took less to stay here. Also you’re 100% incorrect. Vooch was signed at market value.

My original post was "We may not be able to attract an elite player, but we can still sign good players."

This was in regards to having cap space. Cap space allowed us to sign Vuc and Ross and Gordon and Ennis and all the rest of the players we have signed to contracts and extensions. We can sign players with cap space, which we haven't had much of last season or projected for next.

We signed Vuc to a fair deal, every contract is market value, because that is what the market (any team) is willing to give them. What we don't know is if any team was willing to give him anything close to that. He would have probably got close to that, but we made the market. I would even say he is out producing the value of the contract, depends on the metric of production you use I suppose. Horford got a little more (I think) that off season, but he had more suitors in Philly and Boston, but that was his market price, he is just underperforming, though not as much in his current situation.

[The Effect]

Doesn’t matter. The lottery odds have changed. There’s a chance that pick can jump to top 3. Even if it doesn’t, a first rounder holds a ton of value in a strong draft. Hornets are not going to add that pick.

Not if they make the playoffs it cant

Right but then we go back to what I original stated which is Vuch is worth more to us than what we we get back. In that scenario it would be a late pick which has little potential to be much of an asset to the win loss column.

I just don’t see any scenario where trading Vuch helps us unless a team is just dumb or there’s a disgruntled star wanting out and wants to come here.

Well heres how i see it

Unless we can get a superstar, we arent going anywhere with or without vuc. He has been the cornerstone of this team for almost a decade now and has proven that hes not a guy you center your team around. With him as the focal point, we have 2 playoff wins in 9 seasons......is it fair to blame him, no, but it is what it is

This team needs a complete rebuild and considering the way the team is built, it would have to be done through the draft, and so any 1st rounders we can add at this point would be a huge plus.
Like say we can trade vuc for Monk and a 1st rounder (and zeller for cap reasons), that goes alot futher towards the future success of this team than keeping vuc on a middle of the pack type team. That not only nets us a nice player in monk, a second 1st rounder, but it also ensures that we will be bad this year and next and thats likely 2 top 5 picks.

Now say we can trade vuc for that package, and Evan for a young player and a 1st rounder next year (say denver for Bol and their '22 FRP), thats 2 young prospects, and 2 1st rounders in each of the next 2 years (2 very high ones and 2 mid-to-late 1st). That gives us so much more flexibility going forward, especially as far as AG goes as hes likely to get us something nice in return too.

Now sure this plan requires us sucking for 2 more years, but what if those 2 high first rounders turn into something like Jalen Green and a top 5 pick next year to go with Fultz, monk, isaac, chuma, cole, tRoss and hopefully bamba plus whatever we get for AG
That would put us in a MUCH better position to contend going forward than just running it back year after year with the same core (vuc, evan, ag, tross)

Dont get me wrong, i like vuc alot, but i really dont see the upside to keeping him long term with the team we currently have

[MoMM]

I was pointing out he was one of the only options on offense, hence he is entirely capable of 18-22fga per game. You give 80% of players that kind of green light and they will capitalize on it. Similar to Twolves Kevin Love circa 2010-2014 he's a good stats bad team guy.

So basically are you saying that 80% of the league is equal or better than Vuc in terms of scoring? Uhow! So it seems that the other 20% play/played for Orlando.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Why do you think Vuc is worth more to the Magic than anybody else?

You mean other than Miami, SA, Cha, and Boston.. and those are just the ones we know of.

Who else would want or need him? He’s an all star not a franchise star. He’s not going to turn some bottom dweller into a 50 win championship team so why would such a team trade for him? Why would a team trade a high pick in this draft for him? Why would such a team trade any young talent for him?

He’s a piece to a good team that needs a piece. Which is why teams such as Boston want him. However they are not giving up talent or high draft picks. You’re getting their bottom end talent. They want to remain or elevate their status. Not rearrange it. Thus, he’s more valuable to us than to trade him. In most realistic scenarios

Absolutely 100% correct. It’s just funny that just recently there wasn’t a market for him. Vooch has never been an elite talent. It’s been said here a millions times. But he would instantaneously improve any of those teams mentioned at various levels.

[MoMM]

And in my previous post i did say i wouldnt trade him for a bag of peanuts, but I do believe if the Hornets offer us their unprotected 1st which is only 3 games out from being a bottom 5 pick we take it. I dont want anything from the Heat that isnt Herro which isnt going to happen. My point is, Magic fans overvalue Vuc as if he was some superstar. He is a good role player, but once again will never fit our timeline. If the price is right ship him away.

You really believe the Hornets are going to give you an unprotected lottery pick for Vuch?

people act like an unprotected pick equals #1 or #2 pick. Charlotte's pick right now is a non-lottery pick and add Vuc and goes even higher.

Yes, let's trade Vuc for a mid 1st round pick and draft the next Cole Anthony or Okeke... We will be way better this way...