Re: Vuc - “I Love Orlando & I’m Happy”
Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:10 pm
Ah yes.. the annual “Keep Vooch or Trade him poll”
Sports is our Business
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=2061249
Skin wrote:Skybox wrote:Another moronic poll...what is a "massive haul"? I'd trade him for what I think is a massive haul, but nothing points to that coming.
I also thought that was hilarious. A "massive haul"??? What massive haul. He doesn't command that.
The reason why the Magic are leaning towards keeping him is because the offers have probably been very weak and underwhelming.
Knightro wrote:Nothing at all against Vucevic the man. He's a classy guy and he's obviously a very skilled basketball player who has improved a lot over time.
It's just beyond time to make a change.
Weltman, Hammond, Clifford, Vucevic, Fournier, Gordon and Ross all need to go. The next couple of years might be really ugly, but the present isn't particularly appealing either.
Skin wrote:Knightro wrote:Nothing at all against Vucevic the man. He's a classy guy and he's obviously a very skilled basketball player who has improved a lot over time.
It's just beyond time to make a change.
Weltman, Hammond, Clifford, Vucevic, Fournier, Gordon and Ross all need to go. The next couple of years might be really ugly, but the present isn't particularly appealing either.
RIght? Great guy. Impressive development. Wrong position needed for building a contender.
We need to allocate our big money contracts on other positions. The main thing we need from a Center is defense and that's the one thing Vuc lacks. If all that offense came with good defense, we'd ALL be loving him to the moon and back. It's just not the case.
RookieStar wrote:Skin wrote:Knightro wrote:Nothing at all against Vucevic the man. He's a classy guy and he's obviously a very skilled basketball player who has improved a lot over time.
It's just beyond time to make a change.
Weltman, Hammond, Clifford, Vucevic, Fournier, Gordon and Ross all need to go. The next couple of years might be really ugly, but the present isn't particularly appealing either.
RIght? Great guy. Impressive development. Wrong position needed for building a contender.
We need to allocate our big money contracts on other positions. The main thing we need from a Center is defense and that's the one thing Vuc lacks. If all that offense came with good defense, we'd ALL be loving him to the moon and back. It's just not the case.
The thing is... it's our PF that is giving us the defense ( JI ) while our C is the one giving the offense. So just switch it out?
Skin wrote:RookieStar wrote:Skin wrote:RIght? Great guy. Impressive development. Wrong position needed for building a contender.
We need to allocate our big money contracts on other positions. The main thing we need from a Center is defense and that's the one thing Vuc lacks. If all that offense came with good defense, we'd ALL be loving him to the moon and back. It's just not the case.
The thing is... it's our PF that is giving us the defense ( JI ) while our C is the one giving the offense. So just switch it out?
I think JI certainly helps to mask some of Vuc's deficiencies, but the bigger issue is that on the other hand, with Vuc being such a large part of the offense, it stiffles JI's opportunity for growth on the scoring end. Kinda goes for everyone because they end up deferring to Vuc.
The only guys who have had no issues ignoring Vuc and being gutsy enough to be a primary scorer have been Dipo, Fournier, Tobias, Ross and Jeff fricken Green.
MagicFan101 wrote:If someone offers a *decent young player, cap space and a “guaranteed” (as close as you can get) top 10 pick this year for Vuc then I’ll bite. I just don’t see that happening.
*decent does NOT have to be a star. Just a proven young player with clear starter value.
Skin wrote:RookieStar wrote:Skin wrote:RIght? Great guy. Impressive development. Wrong position needed for building a contender.
We need to allocate our big money contracts on other positions. The main thing we need from a Center is defense and that's the one thing Vuc lacks. If all that offense came with good defense, we'd ALL be loving him to the moon and back. It's just not the case.
The thing is... it's our PF that is giving us the defense ( JI ) while our C is the one giving the offense. So just switch it out?
I think JI certainly helps to mask some of Vuc's deficiencies, but the bigger issue is that on the other hand, with Vuc being such a large part of the offense, it stiffles JI's opportunity for growth on the scoring end. Kinda goes for everyone because they end up deferring to Vuc.
The only guys who have had no issues ignoring Vuc and being gutsy enough to be a primary scorer have been Dipo, Fournier, Tobias, Ross and Jeff fricken Green.
ARandomStranger wrote:Skin wrote:RookieStar wrote:
The thing is... it's our PF that is giving us the defense ( JI ) while our C is the one giving the offense. So just switch it out?
I think JI certainly helps to mask some of Vuc's deficiencies, but the bigger issue is that on the other hand, with Vuc being such a large part of the offense, it stiffles JI's opportunity for growth on the scoring end. Kinda goes for everyone because they end up deferring to Vuc.
The only guys who have had no issues ignoring Vuc and being gutsy enough to be a primary scorer have been Dipo, Fournier, Tobias, Ross and Jeff fricken Green.
I don't think Vuc really stifles anything in terms of people getting their shots. He has been a major part of the offense because really he has been the most reliable offensive option we have had. If JI was a better three point shooter this argument would disappear as Vuc has been an extremely willing passer and is quite capable of making good passes. The main issue in reality is not having a primary scorer at all in general. There is no one as reliable on current roster as a scorer. Ross goes cold, Fournier is too slow to get by most of the league, and even when Kelle is healthy he is not a reliable shooter. If we had another guy who could be relied upon to score big points and was capable of being the primary guy, it would have the effect of opening up Vuc more. In essence it would only increase Vuc's ability to do what he has been doing.
As far as defensive regression, this season isn't really a fair grading stick on that. Our wings are not the best defenders in the world and AG has not been available for a lot of the season. If we had capable wings and JI, this wouldn't even be an issue as our defense would be much better regardless of any defensive regression on his part. Building a team around Vuc is our best option of being relevant right now. If the plan is for a long term future post Vuc, it is time to move on, if the Magic want to be relevant and push for playoffs every year for the next three to four years, Vuc is the guy to build around.
I know this FO will disappoint me either way, but I hope something is done.
RookieStar wrote:MagicFan101 wrote:If someone offers a *decent young player, cap space and a “guaranteed” (as close as you can get) top 10 pick this year for Vuc then I’ll bite. I just don’t see that happening.
*decent does NOT have to be a star. Just a proven young player with clear starter value.
As I said in other threads, the offer of CHA for :
Cody(cap)
1 of Monk/Graham
1 of Miles/PJ
FRP
was the nearest and tempting for me
Another one in PHO was Vuc and filler ( sorry forgot the exact details):
Ayton
Cam
filler
which is also tempting.
Not these Tristan, Neismith and picks
pepe1991 wrote:MagicStarwipe wrote:pepe1991 wrote:Love the results.
Clear indicator clueless crybabies are minority but very vocal one.
Shout out for smart majority
Nice try Dr Spin, but most people who want Vuc traded don't think he's worth a "massive haul" so we didn't vote
wow that's rich, comming from a guy who wanted to build whole team around Elfrid Payton.
"BuT pEPe WhY YoU MeNtion PayTon, hE iS noT heRe "
Don't worry, i only bring him to remind you that you know anything about basketball.
pepe1991 wrote:F Fournier and Vuc and their buddyball . They ignore 3 other players and play 2 on 5 every time.
Vučevic is probably worst starting defender in the league along OKafor.
MagicFan101 wrote:RookieStar wrote:MagicFan101 wrote:If someone offers a *decent young player, cap space and a “guaranteed” (as close as you can get) top 10 pick this year for Vuc then I’ll bite. I just don’t see that happening.
*decent does NOT have to be a star. Just a proven young player with clear starter value.
As I said in other threads, the offer of CHA for :
Cody(cap)
1 of Monk/Graham
1 of Miles/PJ
FRP
was the nearest and tempting for me
Another one in PHO was Vuc and filler ( sorry forgot the exact details):
Ayton
Cam
filler
which is also tempting.
Not these Tristan, Neismith and picks
Phoenix is doing very well this year.
Why would they shake that up by trading Ayton? They also don’t have the pick we want.
RookieStar wrote:MagicFan101 wrote:If someone offers a *decent young player, cap space and a “guaranteed” (as close as you can get) top 10 pick this year for Vuc then I’ll bite. I just don’t see that happening.
*decent does NOT have to be a star. Just a proven young player with clear starter value.
As I said in other threads, the offer of CHA for :
Cody(cap)
1 of Monk/Graham
1 of Miles/PJ
FRP
was the nearest and tempting for me
Another one in PHO was Vuc and filler ( sorry forgot the exact details):
Ayton
Cam
filler
which is also tempting.
Not these Tristan, Neismith and picks
Skybox wrote:RookieStar wrote:MagicFan101 wrote:If someone offers a *decent young player, cap space and a “guaranteed” (as close as you can get) top 10 pick this year for Vuc then I’ll bite. I just don’t see that happening.
*decent does NOT have to be a star. Just a proven young player with clear starter value.
As I said in other threads, the offer of CHA for :
Cody(cap)
1 of Monk/Graham
1 of Miles/PJ
FRP
was the nearest and tempting for me
Another one in PHO was Vuc and filler ( sorry forgot the exact details):
Ayton
Cam
filler
which is also tempting.
Not these Tristan, Neismith and picks
Those two (suggested) offers are MILES apart...the filler in the PHO trade is likely better than CHA's best player included. Monk has played well for a few weeks of his career and is probably valued around a high 2rp by himself. Miles Bridges is a small Aaron Gordon without the passing and defensive versatility. PJ is pretty good. The pick is very limited as they will be in playoffs largely due to their recent old man acquisition and will be limited further if they add another 30 year old All-Star at a position of need.
PHO is much harder to ignore. Vuc is better offensively by a mile but Ayton has become an excellent defender and is very young (and legit huge like Embiid). He could be the defensive backstop many here crave but how does he mesh with limited shooters Isaac and Fultz? Cameron can shoot lights out, but not much else...I'd probably pull the trigger on PHO trade (see I'm not married to Vuc or blind to the fact that he's 30) as he could be a cornerstone for years and, hopefully, our draft pick would provide massive scoring that we will be lacking.
MagicStarwipe wrote:pepe1991 wrote:MagicStarwipe wrote:
Nice try Dr Spin, but most people who want Vuc traded don't think he's worth a "massive haul" so we didn't vote
wow that's rich, comming from a guy who wanted to build whole team around Elfrid Payton.
"BuT pEPe WhY YoU MeNtion PayTon, hE iS noT heRe "
Don't worry, i only bring him to remind you that you know anything about basketball.
LOL you can set your clock to pepe bringing up Payton when he's owned in a back and forthpepe1991 wrote:F Fournier and Vuc and their buddyball . They ignore 3 other players and play 2 on 5 every time.
Vučevic is probably worst starting defender in the league along OKafor.
Oh look... looks like you also KNow NuTHing ABouT BazzKetBall. But this was when you joined the board as a Mario homer. Someone who IS actually out of the league
Re: Elfrid Payton just doesn't make players better
0
Post#5 » by MagicStarwipe » Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:00 am
Keep looking everywhere but where the real problem is.
Re: Does De'Aaron Fox or DSJ have more star potential than Payton?
0
Post#95 » by MagicStarwipe » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:59 am
I could see Fox being good, but I don't like DSJ at all. Elfrid basically moved into the top 15 PG's this season. After the all-star break he was pushing top 10.