2020-2021 Regular Season Game 43: Denver Nuggets (25-17) at Orlando Magic (14-28)

[pepe1991]

You mean- he asked trade in February, Magic were in advanced trade talks last week with Houston- and he killed it by saying he won't go to Houston?

He can't "kill it". He doesn't have a no-trade clause. He is welcome to do what no other player has ever done (or maybe Iguodala?) which is sit out this season and next season because he didn't like the trade. And this has nothing to do with a public demand. If this was kept completely private and he let Houston know he doesn't plan on re-signing (which is completely within his rights!), Houston can say that they probably don't want to trade for a player that won't accept a contract offer long term.



"Grr, Gordon won't re-sign in Minnesota or Houston to help our team and kills deals!"

What a good guy he is. That really helped us, didn't it?

A player we're trading away has no obligation to get us the best deal possible or re-sign with a team he doesn't want to play for long term if their contract is ending in the next year or two. The same goes for Fournier whether he had 1 year left or 2.

Denver, another team that is good partner, also was effectivlly scrapped off from a list since he said he wants to BIG MARKET AND CONENDER.

The only thing we do know is he wants to be traded. The whole branding thing unless it's confirmed by him is not something I would take as a serious until it's said out of their mouth publicly. I would assume most veterans whether on trading block or bought out want to go to contenders, so that's no surprise. No matter how much we hate or love a player, they would not pass up being traded to a contender and a chance at a ring. Denver is still being considered a possible trade destination by the big reporters along with Boston and Golden State, so this is a bad example considering he may end up there.

What a hell this is any worst than Dwightmare? Dwight at least was super elite player. We have trade request from role player, underachiving 4th overall draft pick that never acomplished anything.

Because... Dwight.. was our cornerstone player who we never intended on trading and Aaron Gordon is a solid role player and someone who we were probably going to trade regardless if he said anything or not?

It's like waking up one day and your dad that has been there your entire life wants to leave your family forever versus a step dad that your mom was going to break up with in a week saying he's out.

Honestlly, it's complete waste of time to discuss with you about this topic.

If any other player , any other career mediocrity demanded a trade and came up with wishlist of like 4 teams to go there, killed his team flexibility by leaking informations to Celtics beatwriters, and pretty much ,despite not having veto nor no trade clausule- killed off trade talk by leaking he has no interest to play on rebuilding team- you would say and behave different.
But since it's about Gordon, you will die on that shield like you kept dying last 7 years.

Branding is reported from same reporter who reported he requested trade. Same thing Gordon comfirmed himself today.
You just cherry pick "truths " because full report kills everything you claim.

This is worthless debate. Gordon is good guy, he just happend to demand something from a team every year and in return his player's value is Kyle Kuzma and Marcus Morris.. Go figure.

[SOUL]

..
.

None of this has anything to do with what annoys me about the team though? You're just listing why you hate Gordon which is a weird way to prove that you're the one that is "objective", especially when I'm stating that you can copy + paste my argument for Ross, Fournier and Vuc and I will make the same points I'm making for Gordon.

I am not mad that AG turned out to be an average draft pick with an average career here who we invested in. Of course I wish every player who has stuck around here could turn into an all-star that takes us deep in the playoffs, but none of them have done that. Vuc has came the closest but still leaves a lot to be desired, and I wouldn't be mad if tomorrow he said "trade me" whether he was the current all-star Vuc or the pre all-star Vuc.

I will always be more critical of a front office/management than I will of a specific player unless they're a horrible human being.

[zaymon]

I dont care much about Gordon trade request but him being frustrated about the way we have been playing is a little out of place. Its a shot towards Clifford and basically bad luck with injuries which we have no control over. He blames basically everyone except himself. Clifford said many time he envisions Gordon in more passing role, yet he kept shooting those awful fadeaways damaging our offense time and time again. If there is one player who didnt play the right way its Gordon. I believe everyone is frustrated and rightfully so, but all other players seem ok with playing through our best player- Vucevic. If Gordon have problem with that good luck.

[SOUL]

Honestlly, it's complete waste of time to discuss with you about this topic.

I quoted you line by line and refuted every point you made and your response is that it's a waste of time. Prove me right and I'll agree with you. I do agree that in an ideal world, players shouldn't have their wishes honored and that they keep their trade request private. My argument is that every player no matter how good they are or not will have a preference if their names are brought up as a serious trade candidate. Those wishes shouldn't be granted because a player "wants" it.

If any other player , any other career mediocrity demanded a trade and came up with wishlist of like 4 teams to go there, killed his team flexibility by leaking informations to Celtics beatwriters, and pretty much ,despite not having veto nor no trade clausule- killed off trade talk by leaking he has no interest to play on rebuilding team- you would say and behave different.
But since it's about Gordon, you will die on that shield like you kept dying last 7 years.

You keep spouting this and it's not true. The Houston potential trade was prior to Gordon publicly requesting a trade and was killed because presumably there was no commitment to sign there long term. For the 5th time, that is a player's prerogative and career choice. What you're basically saying is "You're not good enough to make that decision! Play longterm where you're traded! How dare you be a free agent next year and not get us a better deal!"

Secondly, there literally is no shield. A shield from somebody I want traded because I think a trade helps the team more than them staying?

Branding is reported from same reporter who reported he requested trade. Same thing Gordon comfirmed himself today.
You just cherry pick "truths " because full report kills everything you claim.

I simply don't think a player will turn down a chance at a ring in Denver to lose in a big market contender (which isn't even Boston tbh), so that leaves what, Lakers? He's not going there.

Okay then, if we're working under the assumption than anything a reporter reports is true which means everything I quoted from Oladipo and Lowry AND Gordon, then how...

(besides saying "Gordon sucks more than them!")

... do those reports make trading scenarios better for Houston and Toronto when their preferences are already known, including a free agency wink-wink to Miami from Olaidpo and Lowry's pre-requisite being re-signed for two years at 35 years old for $25 million?

Seriously. If the crux of your argument is the public trade demand, tell me how those two players helped their team's options with those very specific things being known about what they want "if" it happens?

[SOUL]

I just don't think these things would be hurled at Vuc or Fournier with such conviction from posters besides maybe basketballRob, which I would happily debate in calling him misguided and wrong. Otherwise, I think most posters response would be happy or excited that there will finally be a trade including them instead of them being some plotting villain out to get us the least desirable package.

[pepe1991]

Honestlly, it's complete waste of time to discuss with you about this topic.

I quoted you line by line and refuted every point you made and your response is that it's a waste of time. Prove me right and I'll agree with you. I do agree that in an ideal world, players shouldn't have their wishes honored and that they keep their trade request private. My argument is that every player no matter how good they are or not will have a preference if their names are brought up as a serious trade candidate. Those wishes shouldn't be granted because a player "wants" it.

If any other player , any other career mediocrity demanded a trade and came up with wishlist of like 4 teams to go there, killed his team flexibility by leaking informations to Celtics beatwriters, and pretty much ,despite not having veto nor no trade clausule- killed off trade talk by leaking he has no interest to play on rebuilding team- you would say and behave different.
But since it's about Gordon, you will die on that shield like you kept dying last 7 years.

You keep spouting this and it's not true. The Houston potential trade was prior to Gordon publicly requesting a trade and was killed because presumably there was no commitment to sign there long term. For the 5th time, that is a player's prerogative and career choice. What you're basically saying is "You're not good enough to make that decision! Play longterm where you're traded! How dare you be a free agent next year and not get us a better deal!"

Secondly, there literally is no shield. A shield from somebody I want traded because I think a trade helps the team more than them staying?

Branding is reported from same reporter who reported he requested trade. Same thing Gordon comfirmed himself today.
You just cherry pick "truths " because full report kills everything you claim.

I simply don't think a player will turn down a chance at a ring in Denver to lose in a big market contender (which isn't even Boston tbh), so that leaves what, Lakers? He's not going there.

Okay then, if we're working under the assumption than anything a reporter reports is true which means everything I quoted from Oladipo and Lowry AND Gordon, then how...

(besides saying "Gordon sucks more than them!")

... do those reports make trading scenarios better for Houston and Toronto when their preferences are already known, including a free agency wink-wink to Miami from Olaidpo and Lowry's pre-requisite being re-signed for two years at 35 years old for $25 million?

Seriously. If the crux of your argument is the public trade demand, tell me how those two players helped their team's options with those very specific things being known about what they want "if" it happens?

Read on Twitter

Chris Haynes

Aaron Gordon

Houston Rockets players were under the impression a few days ago that a trade for Gordon was close to being finalized and a last-minute hiccup killed the deal, league sources told Yahoo Sports.

Gordon has no desire to be traded to a team in a rebuild and is only interested in joining a team that has the potential to make a playoff run, sources said.

One key party with knowledge of the talks disputed that it nearly reached the point of completion. It would have likely involved Victor Oladipo. However, any team that seeks a trade for the Orlando Magic versatile forward would prefer to have some assurances that Gordon would agree to an extension, sources said.

This could decrease the trade options for Orlando. Gordon, 25, is set to become an unrestricted free agent in the summer of 2022.

Talks have diminished between Orlando and the Portland Trail Blazers, a source said. The Denver Nuggets are still interested, but there isn't desperation to make a move, sources said.

I quoted you line by line and refuted every point you made and your response is that it's a waste of time. Prove me right and I'll agree with you.

You literally argue reports and treat your feelings like facts, despite every evidence out there proves you wrong. Matter of fact you act like you "proved me wrong " . It's almost as amusing as Payton top 10 pg argument you had in past.
What i even claimed to be wrong? That he fu***ed Houston trade? That's not claim. That's actual fact and what happend. I don't care that you close your eyes and yell :lalalla every time something you don't agree about him comes along.

Again, i give up, it's complete waste of time to argue somebody who's has such a strong emotional investment in anything. You are biased. There is no better word to describe it. Gordon is role player and prima donna with huge ego. OrlandO called him clown. I didn't go that far, but that's not far from truth.

He'll go to contender, be in diminished offensvie role and probably ask for trade again or go to Sacramento to flex his muscles over another franchise that does not have balls to say no his delusions. Magic should have traded him 3 years ago. But nooo, new Paul George, better than 22 y.o. Kawhi and all that nonsense you and guys like you treated like gospel.

[Skybox]

I disagree, if we had any of those guys that you listed we would be a much better team. Except not really sold on Luka, because he's a bad defender also

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Not trying to argue over semantics, but how much better do you really think? I think Vuc is unfairly criticized, but I genuinely think our team and the alleged vision of this FO is so woefully off the mark, that none of the above would make us truly relevant, including LeBron. Our entire roster is constructed of guards that struggle to shoot the ball and tall, lanky athletes without a single refined basketball skill sans Vucevic. Who could seriously help this team if you swapped Vuc with them? I guess what I mean is, what do you see being different about our play style that amounts to a significant change in our performance?

I think Vuc is fairly criticized as far as you can critique someone on results oriented thinking. We haven't won **** with him here. It certainly doesn't make him a bad player, but it is fair to point out that his teams never do well.

By THAT logic, we probably dont want Cade and his underperforming empty stat game. His team got upset- must be his fault

[MagicStarwipe]

i'm siding with every single player on this team over this joke of a front office. Period.

Maybe it's time to root for somebody else? Like Suns, Pelicans or Knicks... or soon to be china team?

Hey pepe, if everybody you meet is a jerk... you're the jerk.

[pepe1991]

i'm siding with every single player on this team over this joke of a front office. Period.

Maybe it's time to root for somebody else? Like Suns, Pelicans or Knicks... or soon to be china team?

Hey pepe, if everybody you meet is a jerk... you're the jerk.

if team you root for makes your life miserable, maybe it's time to find new one? Most fans are bandwagoners for that reason.

[Ducklett]

Not trying to argue over semantics, but how much better do you really think? I think Vuc is unfairly criticized, but I genuinely think our team and the alleged vision of this FO is so woefully off the mark, that none of the above would make us truly relevant, including LeBron. Our entire roster is constructed of guards that struggle to shoot the ball and tall, lanky athletes without a single refined basketball skill sans Vucevic. Who could seriously help this team if you swapped Vuc with them? I guess what I mean is, what do you see being different about our play style that amounts to a significant change in our performance?

I think Vuc is fairly criticized as far as you can critique someone on results oriented thinking. We haven't won **** with him here. It certainly doesn't make him a bad player, but it is fair to point out that his teams never do well.

By THAT logic, we probably dont want Cade and his underperforming empty stat game. His team got upset- must be his fault

That's why results oriented thinking is bad.

[Skybox]

I dont care much about Gordon trade request but him being frustrated about the way we have been playing is a little out of place. Its a shot towards Clifford and basically bad luck with injuries which we have no control over. He blames basically everyone except himself. Clifford said many time he envisions Gordon in more passing role, yet he kept shooting those awful fadeaways damaging our offense time and time again. If there is one player who didnt play the right way its Gordon. I believe everyone is frustrated and rightfully so, but all other players seem ok with playing through our best player- Vucevic. If Gordon have problem with that good luck.

He could be a very good player, and maybe will be, but...he's a child. He probably has someone in his camp feeding him BS about his star power and his "brand" and he's eating it up. I don't disagree with his wanting to leave or about being misused, but he should keep his mouth shut as a professional and just get it done behind the scenes...reminds me of Dwight (but without the real star power). On the other hand, what happened to D12's star power once he left the ORL playpen he was raised in?

[EAS Law]

Lol. These games are so few for Vuc that you have to take every opportunity to bash him whenever our ALL-STAR has a bad game. You seem obsessed.

Vuc is either the weak link, or our team is awful because our FO and their inability to construct a decent roster is unmotivated, uninspiring, and cowardly—it can’t be had both ways.

Vucevic is the only objectively positive thing about this organization at the moment. He’s now a 2x Allstar for Christ’s sake. If we had Embiid, Jokic, Luka, LeBron alone, we’d still be absolutely awful.

Nope, not at all. Thats hilarious. Embiid as a rookie joined the maybe worst team ever, which was built for getting top 3 picks & transformed them from day 1 into a team with a 46+ winning pace.
LeBron lead a team full of roleplayers to the NBA finals on his rookie contract.
The difference is, those guys are elite 2 way players. They are elite on both sides. They have gigantic bigger impact than Vuc. Vuc isnt even elite on one side of the court, as long as he is the worst high volume player ever going to the line (Just this game another example: 25 FGA - 0 FTA)

God, i like Vuc more than my posts suggests, but the glorifying of Vuc here is getting ridiculous. He is a high volume, mediocre eff. offense player, with mediocre to bad defense, on the most important defensive postion. Sure he got his big share of our losing records in the last decade.

Edit: I dont wanna start a Vuc discussion again here
I just dont like fake news, wrong stats, misused stats & 90's eyetests player evaluation. I do the same with other players, when i see it. Like just in the last few weeks the AG is elite on defense or Evan is a good defender posts.I would do the same, if someone wrote Isaac is good on offense.

Lol that’s fair, and I admit my input is 100% eye test as we’ve absolutely beaten the stats to death on Vuc.

My point isn’t to glorify Vuc either—I agree with many that he isn’t a no. 1 guy, but he’s the best we have. My argument is that the absolute garbage our team has become falls largely at the feet of THIS FO. Hennigan messed up on his way out with Oladipo, but imagine that in 4 years, our biggest move has been trading a 2r pick for a guy that many thought was about to be out of the league ala Anthony Bennett. That is literally the biggest move we’ve made in 4 years. The rest has been evaluation and even after we made the POs, we did absolutely nothing to build on that, which is the point of making the POs as a low seed in my opinion.

[thelead]

Maybe it's time to root for somebody else? Like Suns, Pelicans or Knicks... or soon to be china team?

Hey pepe, if everybody you meet is a jerk... you're the jerk.

if team you root for makes your life miserable, maybe it's time to find new one? Most fans are bandwagoners for that reason.

For some of us, this is our local team and a team that we’ve been following since our childhood. I know that may not apply to you so it may be difficult to understand.

[swarlesbarkley]

Someone needs to do the Scooby Doo meme where Shaggy removes pepe's face covering to reveal ezzzp.

So overly aggressive and anti-player not named Vuc. It's tiring watching every thread turn into a pepe diatribe "proving" himself right.

[Def Swami]

SOUL fighting the good fight.

I don't think anyone on the Magic roster are bad people. There are surely some frustrating players. But, I think all these guys are good in nature. I follow this team as close as anyone and would never describe anyone on the team as a diva or prima donna. It's a weird rage campaign some fans have against Gordon. There are a lot of assumptions being made about him based on a lot of nothingness.

This isn't like the Dwightmare where Howard through his teammates under the bus, asked for key players to get traded, dogged it in games, changed his mind mid-season, claimed he was too "loyal", and then requested the same trade 2 months later.

Players requesting trades is just like any employee using their leverage to do what's best for them in any line of work. I have no issue with it. The caliber of player or employee doesn't matter. And how it affects the team or company simply doesn't matter. It's just business. That's the game the Magic and every team have to play. The Magic were ready to ship Gordon to Minnesota 2 months ago. Now Gordon tries to get ahead of the situation to do what's best for him, and he's the villain? There's no loyalty in the business. It's just how the game works. If you're upset by it, don't hate the player. Hate the game.

[pepe1991]

Someone needs to do the Scooby Doo meme where Shaggy removes pepe's face covering to reveal ezzzp.

So overly aggressive and anti-player not named Vuc. It's tiring watching every thread turn into a pepe diatribe "proving" himself right.

It's not my fault that most of forum, since i joined it, keeps picking wrong dogs in a race.
So over years my only major arguments /fights were about:

Elfrid Payton and whole thing about him. I don't think anybody can argue he is the worst starting pg in nba. Go back 4 years ago and there was thread about "Payton championship point guard" with "already above average, soon to be top 10 PG" claims.
I fought back. It's very clear who was right.

Gordon superstar comparisons. NEver made any sense 4 years ago, 7 years after a draft, it's clear who was right and who were just fanboys.

Mo Bamba. I liked Bamba before draft and i hated Trae. I even poked fun at my own terrible judgment about it 2 days ago in a comment. But instad of dying on shield of terrible bench player, after one year i pretty much was first in line to throw bust word.
3 years later, fans still get exited about his gym pictures of him flexing muscles.

Isaac.After one year where he was pretty crappy, he was much better in second year and i was first guy to admit guy showed massive improvments.

So whole thing about me "hating" players always goes back to Payton (terrible terrible player) and Gordon ( role player and nothing else).
But those guys happends to have most loyal fanboys here and most fights about them were very heated because, imo ,their fans refused and still refuse to take pink- glasses off when they talk.

As far as Vuc goes, i talked about annoying habbits of buddy ball- in 2016. Vuc over time simply took his game to next level. Something every other Magic player flat out failed to do so. So, yea I like player that re-invented his game in his late 20s and is one of best players at his position over players who show no progression for years. Sue me.