ImageImageImageImage

Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks

Moderators: Howard Mass, UCF, ChosenSavior, Knightro, SOUL, Def Swami, UCFJayBird

User avatar
SOUL
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 45,714
And1: 26,336
Joined: Dec 11, 2006
Location: 트와이스
     

Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#381 » by SOUL » Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:44 am

Simply couldn't get the talent/injury luck to surround Vuc successfully. Vuc is a floor raiser more than a ceiling raiser, meaning we're not going to go anywhere with him as the first option and that wasn't changing any time soon without a lot of luck. I think it'll be interesting to see him in Chicago with LaVine, they might be able to get a 3rd person to go there in the next year or two.
User avatar
fendilim
RealGM
Posts: 27,908
And1: 3,831
Joined: Jun 11, 2002
Location: 孫悟空, 时间太?!

Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#382 » by fendilim » Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:08 am

neuraldarwinism wrote:i dont know.

i'm semi-surprised we got as much as we did for vuc. all those swap vuc for a top 5 pick trades this offseason seemed wildly unrealistic. would a team picking in the top 10 trade their pick(s) for him this year? idk, doubt it. 3 late lottery-early non-lottery picks or 2, salary dump, and a prospect seems close enough.

plus we get to move off a team designed around a lower priority position whose play style blocks alternative and frankly more enjoyable style of play.

really i have no expectations for this franchise though so anything short of catastrophe while moving our 8th seed core is a minor miracle to me.

What? Right now that pick is top 10 pick, but I highly doubt it will be a top 10 pick with how close the Bulls are to make the playoffs. AND how Vuc fits perfectly well for their team.

Read on Twitter
?s=20


Not to mention, they only upgraded their rotation player Wendell Carter to Vucevic.


The pick will pretty much be the the top 15-20 range, IMO.
Image
User avatar
Knightro
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 10,052
And1: 11,659
Joined: Dec 18, 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
 

Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#383 » by Knightro » Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:25 am

Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter
aussie_pride
Sophomore
Posts: 233
And1: 156
Joined: Nov 21, 2018
         

Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#384 » by aussie_pride » Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:27 am

D12VCMagic wrote:
aussie_pride wrote:I'm not a Magic fan but I really feel sorry for all those of you who like Vucevic. I thought he was one of those guys who you could build your franchise around due to the fact the he was unselfish, loyal and had many good years ahead of him. In my view teams worry too much about the future and not enough about the present. Remember, with draft picks you have no guarantee that they are going to better than Vucevic's current all-star calibre skillset. The other thing to take into account is that people get too presumptuous with the whole age thing. I get that Vucevic is 30 and the Magic want to cash in on him while his value as its highest but that is based on the assumption that Vucevic is not going to be playing at high level in his mid 30s. Do not get me wrong - advanced age is detrimental but only really for those players who rely on speed and athleticism. Vucevic's game does not really embody those two attributes as his game is more about proper shot selection, posting up and making correct basketball plays. Therefore, I could honestly see him playing at high level until his mid to late 30s. My view therefore is that this was a bad trade!


His All Star caliber skillset has brought the team zero success over the course of nine seasons. He is a good player no doubt, but he isn’t a franchise center piece. We’ve tried building around him for nearly a decade and it didn’t work. I think too many people are overvaluing him because he’s made the All Star team. I’m happy to get cap space, picks and start over instead of convincing ourselves we are close because Vooch can make the All Star team at a position that lacks elite talent in the league.

Is it his skillset that has brought the team zero success or is it the skillset of the players around him? One of the reasons why I would keep him is that he is very good at involving his team mates; if he was a more selfish and less inclined to pass then I would tend to agree with you. I also disagree with the mentality that you completely "gut" a roster or "blow it up" and start again; that is such naïve management. For starters, what are you supposed to do in interim while the new core of them team is developing? Accept losing? Like I said, when you rely on draft talent you take a massive risk. On the contrary, if you built around Vucevic you wouldn't necessarily be making the playoffs immediately but you still enjoy some level of success while the team is re-generating.

Then comes the on-court logistics. Orlando has based their entire offense around Vucevic and now that he is gone the coach virtually has to start from scratch and implement a new style of basketball. At least if you kept Vucevic you have some level of fluidity and on-court cohesion. Lastly, Vucevic would add value as a senior pro and a mentor for many young players coming into the franchise. This is something not be underestimated as having highly skilful senior players can aid in the develop of young talent.

In summary, I can understand why Orlando would have felt the need to move on Fournier and Gordon but getting rid of Vucevic was a mistake, not to mention a kick in the teeth for a seriously loyal player. Why more players do not ask for no-trade clauses I will never know!
User avatar
MagicMatic
Head Coach
Posts: 7,271
And1: 7,306
Joined: May 30, 2016
 

Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#385 » by MagicMatic » Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:42 am

aussie_pride wrote:
D12VCMagic wrote:
aussie_pride wrote:I'm not a Magic fan but I really feel sorry for all those of you who like Vucevic. I thought he was one of those guys who you could build your franchise around due to the fact the he was unselfish, loyal and had many good years ahead of him. In my view teams worry too much about the future and not enough about the present. Remember, with draft picks you have no guarantee that they are going to better than Vucevic's current all-star calibre skillset. The other thing to take into account is that people get too presumptuous with the whole age thing. I get that Vucevic is 30 and the Magic want to cash in on him while his value as its highest but that is based on the assumption that Vucevic is not going to be playing at high level in his mid 30s. Do not get me wrong - advanced age is detrimental but only really for those players who rely on speed and athleticism. Vucevic's game does not really embody those two attributes as his game is more about proper shot selection, posting up and making correct basketball plays. Therefore, I could honestly see him playing at high level until his mid to late 30s. My view therefore is that this was a bad trade!


His All Star caliber skillset has brought the team zero success over the course of nine seasons. He is a good player no doubt, but he isn’t a franchise center piece. We’ve tried building around him for nearly a decade and it didn’t work. I think too many people are overvaluing him because he’s made the All Star team. I’m happy to get cap space, picks and start over instead of convincing ourselves we are close because Vooch can make the All Star team at a position that lacks elite talent in the league.

Is it his skillset that has brought the team zero success or is it the skillset of the players around him? One of the reasons why I would keep him is that he is very good at involving his team mates; if he was a more selfish and less inclined to pass then I would tend to agree with you. I also disagree with the mentality that you completely "gut" a roster or "blow it up" and start again; that is such naïve management. For starters, what are you supposed to do in interim while the new core of them team is developing? Accept losing? Like I said, when you rely on draft talent you take a massive risk. On the contrary, if you built around Vucevic you wouldn't necessarily be making the playoffs immediately but you still enjoy some level of success while the team is re-generating.

Then comes the on-court logistics. Orlando has based their entire offense around Vucevic and now that he is gone the coach virtually has to start from scratch and implement a new style of basketball. At least if you kept Vucevic you have some level of fluidity and on-court cohesion. Lastly, Vucevic would add value as a senior pro and a mentor for many young players coming into the franchise. This is something not be underestimated as having highly skilful senior players can aid in the develop of young talent.

In summary, I can understand why Orlando would have felt the need to move on Fournier and Gordon but getting rid of Vucevic was a mistake, not to mention a kick in the teeth for a seriously loyal player. Why more players do not ask for no-trade clauses I will never know!


Nobody with a straight face can honestly say that Orlando didn’t utilize Vuc at every cost since the Dwight trade.

He’s 30 years old on a team that considers their “future” to be comprised of injury riddled young guys. There was nothing left for Vucevic to prove here other than winning a playoff series (which wasn’t going to happen imo).

If you actually cared about Vucevic you would be cheering that he won’t have to put up 20-25 shots a night on a bottom dweller while the Front Office pretends we are playoff bound for another 3 years.

You’ve already stated you aren’t a Magic fan, so no offense, but you wouldn’t really understand what we’ve been watching for 7 years straight. This trade needed to happen.
I Rasharted
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,393
And1: 748
Joined: Nov 05, 2010

Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#386 » by I Rasharted » Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:53 am

thelead wrote:
Skybox wrote:
thelead wrote:I didn't want anything to do with WCJ before the draft and I still don't. I can't believe this is the best they could get for Vuc. We now have to hope for a Lavine or Vuc injury for those picks to be of any value. For all the talk about picks, is another Chuma or Cole (mid round picks) really going to move the needle much?


I can’t believe YOU are already complaining about a Vuc trade


I'm just so bummed because I feel like we got nothing but a shot a the tank back. I'm just not a WCJ fan at all. And then the picks will likely be mid round picks. I wasn't a Vuc fan but damn... we couldn't have gotten back a better return than an underwhelming WCJ and future Chuma/Cole level players?

I'm shocked they got as much as they did for Vuc. Now ORL has more lotto tickets to spend in hopes of landing a star. Simple as that.
basketballRob wrote:Another good benefit about eating plants is that the artery going to your penis gets unclogged and starts flowing real good.
User avatar
tiderulz
RealGM
Posts: 30,785
And1: 11,391
Joined: Jun 16, 2010
Location: Atlanta
 

Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#387 » by tiderulz » Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:15 pm

I Rasharted wrote:
thelead wrote:
Skybox wrote:
I can’t believe YOU are already complaining about a Vuc trade


I'm just so bummed because I feel like we got nothing but a shot a the tank back. I'm just not a WCJ fan at all. And then the picks will likely be mid round picks. I wasn't a Vuc fan but damn... we couldn't have gotten back a better return than an underwhelming WCJ and future Chuma/Cole level players?

I'm shocked they got as much as they did for Vuc. Now ORL has more lotto tickets to spend in hopes of landing a star. Simple as that.

"got as much"?

a journeyman center with 1 year left on rookie deal and cannot stay healthy.

2 picks most likely to be 16-20ish.

thats the return you are shocked about?
I Rasharted
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,393
And1: 748
Joined: Nov 05, 2010

Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#388 » by I Rasharted » Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:17 pm

tiderulz wrote:
I Rasharted wrote:
thelead wrote:
I'm just so bummed because I feel like we got nothing but a shot a the tank back. I'm just not a WCJ fan at all. And then the picks will likely be mid round picks. I wasn't a Vuc fan but damn... we couldn't have gotten back a better return than an underwhelming WCJ and future Chuma/Cole level players?

I'm shocked they got as much as they did for Vuc. Now ORL has more lotto tickets to spend in hopes of landing a star. Simple as that.

"got as much"?

a journeyman center with 1 year left on rookie deal and cannot stay healthy.

2 picks most likely to be 16-20ish.

thats the return you are shocked about?

Correct. We must have had different assumptions about Vuc's value.
basketballRob wrote:Another good benefit about eating plants is that the artery going to your penis gets unclogged and starts flowing real good.
User avatar
tiderulz
RealGM
Posts: 30,785
And1: 11,391
Joined: Jun 16, 2010
Location: Atlanta
 

Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#389 » by tiderulz » Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:24 pm

I Rasharted wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
I Rasharted wrote:I'm shocked they got as much as they did for Vuc. Now ORL has more lotto tickets to spend in hopes of landing a star. Simple as that.

"got as much"?

a journeyman center with 1 year left on rookie deal and cannot stay healthy.

2 picks most likely to be 16-20ish.

thats the return you are shocked about?

Correct. We must have had different assumptions about Vuc's value.

top 3-5 all-star center in his prime..i guess we do
User avatar
neuraldarwinism
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,726
And1: 969
Joined: Dec 24, 2013

Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#390 » by neuraldarwinism » Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:10 pm

fendilim wrote:
neuraldarwinism wrote:i dont know.

i'm semi-surprised we got as much as we did for vuc. all those swap vuc for a top 5 pick trades this offseason seemed wildly unrealistic. would a team picking in the top 10 trade their pick(s) for him this year? idk, doubt it. 3 late lottery-early non-lottery picks or 2, salary dump, and a prospect seems close enough.

plus we get to move off a team designed around a lower priority position whose play style blocks alternative and frankly more enjoyable style of play.

really i have no expectations for this franchise though so anything short of catastrophe while moving our 8th seed core is a minor miracle to me.


The pick will pretty much be the the top 15-20 range, IMO.


that's what im saying--i think 2 picks in the 15-20 range is proper value.
yoyojw17
Analyst
Posts: 3,672
And1: 2,448
Joined: Dec 26, 2011
Location: Gainesville,FL
 

Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#391 » by yoyojw17 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:28 pm

SOUL wrote:
thelead wrote:I'm just so bummed because I feel like we got nothing but a shot a the tank back. I'm just not a WCJ fan at all. And then the picks will likely be mid round picks. I wasn't a Vuc fan but damn... we couldn't have gotten back a better return than an underwhelming WCJ and future Chuma/Cole level players?


What is a Chuma/Cole level player? They're in their first years and we have no idea how they will turn out. And different drafts have different levels of players available at any range, it's about picking correctly (which is another challenge), but I don't think anybody would scoff at another late lottery or 1st rounder because I know at draft time people will complain about not having another 1st round pick or early 2nd to take an interesting player.

Cole was a 15th pick but so was Giannis and Kawhi. Chuma was the 16th pick but so was Vucevic. There is talent to be had even if it is really hard to predict.

Also we don't even know where the pick is gonna land, anything can happen. WCJ, sure, obviously some people are higher on him than others (I want to see him vs Bamba compete to start) but I'm not sure what sort of picks you're expecting for Vuc because most teams who would want Vuc are teams that are already contending, and the Bulls are not that.

In fact, the picks are looking better than what Houston got from Harden currently since the Bulls are still a young team and the Bulls are currently in the 10th spot. It may end up being 15-20 but still..

and don't forget the 28 million that comes off the books this year when porter becomes a free agent. that flexibility mixed with the fournier trade relief and gary harris' expiring next season... make a young, developing, talent magic team a player in free agency for 2022.... with hopefully ideas of what all the players can contribute.... all while outwardly tanking to hopefully find a talent at the top of this draft. I think WeHam played their card reaaaaal well... because there are multiple things achieved through these trades. And at the end you're also giving the young guys an opportunity to continue spreading their wings... and to be honest... gary harris and otto porter may just need changes of scenery. Same could be said of WCJ and RJ. TThere are so many possible outcomes... now just time to get them to grind.

hope we lose every game ... by a matter of 3-6 points from this point on. Just enough to show growth.... but also enough that we aren't that good. :-D Jalen Green.... :pray: lol
ogmagicfan
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,270
And1: 642
Joined: Mar 30, 2014
     

Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#392 » by ogmagicfan » Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:39 pm

tiderulz wrote:
I Rasharted wrote:
tiderulz wrote:"got as much"?

a journeyman center with 1 year left on rookie deal and cannot stay healthy.

2 picks most likely to be 16-20ish.

thats the return you are shocked about?

Correct. We must have had different assumptions about Vuc's value.

top 3-5 all-star center in his prime..i guess we do


I think the picks are fine, these were about the best picks you could get on a market for Vuc. I couldn’t envision any of the teams in the lottery trading for Vuc since they’re in rebuild except the Pelicans, Raptors, or Kings. Bulls are around the same place record wise, and aren’t the best run franchise post-MJ so these picks can convert into something.

Unless you think the Warriors would’ve traded their Minnesota pick for Vuc, I’m curious what teams scenarios you think we could have garnered better picks?
User avatar
neuraldarwinism
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,726
And1: 969
Joined: Dec 24, 2013

Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#393 » by neuraldarwinism » Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:06 pm

zach lowes' takeaway is we got fair market value, it was unrealistic to expect 3 number 1s for a non-jokic/embiid center, and even though the bulls are now a borderline tier 2 playoff team in the east, they have a lot of question marks moving forward which makes the lightly 2023 draft pick pretty risky.

same with ag: fair market value.
User avatar
PrimeThyme
General Manager
Posts: 9,047
And1: 12,222
Joined: May 25, 2016
Location: Doak Campbell
 

Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#394 » by PrimeThyme » Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:14 pm

neuraldarwinism wrote:zach lowes' takeaway is we got fair market value, it was unrealistic to expect 3 number 1s for a non-jokic/embiid center, and even though the bulls are now a borderline tier 2 playoff team in the east, they have a lot of question marks moving forward which makes the lightly 2023 draft pick pretty risky.

same with ag: fair market value.

I think Lowe has been reading too many Twitter threads. He says we've been getting hammered for this trade, but the general consensus from what I've seen outside of Bulls dominated Twitter is that we made off well here.

The Holiday trade isn't even comparable because the picks they traded for are virtually worthless with Giannis resigning && they took on the Bledsoe contract which looks awful at the moment. These Chicago picks have the chance to be legitimate lottery-level picks and we took on a young player still on a rookie contract.

I'll take this trade over the one NO's got every single day of the week. People are acting like Chicago is now this bonafide EC contender, && I'm just not there yet. I think they have many of the same problems that our team has had.
Image
yoyojw17
Analyst
Posts: 3,672
And1: 2,448
Joined: Dec 26, 2011
Location: Gainesville,FL
 

Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#395 » by yoyojw17 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:35 pm

Guess i wasn't the only one that wanted to see this on the court for the rest of the season!!
User avatar
Xatticus
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,720
And1: 5,296
Joined: Feb 18, 2016
Location: the land of the blind
         

Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#396 » by Xatticus » Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:37 pm

tiderulz wrote:
I Rasharted wrote:
tiderulz wrote:"got as much"?

a journeyman center with 1 year left on rookie deal and cannot stay healthy.

2 picks most likely to be 16-20ish.

thats the return you are shocked about?

Correct. We must have had different assumptions about Vuc's value.

top 3-5 all-star center in his prime..i guess we do


You can label him your Supa-Dupa BAMF or whatever else you please. His market was only ever going to be those desperate enough to throw caution to the wind or a pack of vultures coming in to pick the bones clean. Nobody was trading for Vucevic with any degree of certainty that his addition would immediately improve their fortunes. He doesn't have the track record of success to give those assurances. You take a chance if the price is cheap. If it isn't, then what's the point?

Let me put it this way... would you be impressed if San Antonio received a similar haul for DeMar DeRozan? DeRozan is a year older and his contract winds down this year, but is Vucevic actually as good as DeRozan right now? Do you think we could get anything for Vucevic a year from now?

I think we've done very well to get what appears to be three assets with a reasonable chance to provide some long-term value.
"Xatticus has always been, in my humble opinion best poster here. Should write articles or something."
-pepe1991
basketballRob
RealGM
Posts: 12,957
And1: 5,375
Joined: May 05, 2014
     

Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#397 » by basketballRob » Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:46 pm

Bulls have a tough schedule. 10 games in 10 different cities starting tomorrow night.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
swarlesbarkley
Analyst
Posts: 3,135
And1: 1,710
Joined: Jun 18, 2014
   

Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#398 » by swarlesbarkley » Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:48 pm

tiderulz wrote:
I Rasharted wrote:
thelead wrote:
I'm just so bummed because I feel like we got nothing but a shot a the tank back. I'm just not a WCJ fan at all. And then the picks will likely be mid round picks. I wasn't a Vuc fan but damn... we couldn't have gotten back a better return than an underwhelming WCJ and future Chuma/Cole level players?

I'm shocked they got as much as they did for Vuc. Now ORL has more lotto tickets to spend in hopes of landing a star. Simple as that.

"got as much"?

a journeyman center with 1 year left on rookie deal and cannot stay healthy.

2 picks most likely to be 16-20ish.

thats the return you are shocked about?


"Journeyman center"?

WCJ is younger than Bamba.
User avatar
tiderulz
RealGM
Posts: 30,785
And1: 11,391
Joined: Jun 16, 2010
Location: Atlanta
 

Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#399 » by tiderulz » Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:50 pm

swarlesbarkley wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
I Rasharted wrote:I'm shocked they got as much as they did for Vuc. Now ORL has more lotto tickets to spend in hopes of landing a star. Simple as that.

"got as much"?

a journeyman center with 1 year left on rookie deal and cannot stay healthy.

2 picks most likely to be 16-20ish.

thats the return you are shocked about?


"Journeyman center"?

WCJ is younger than Bamba.

yes. to me Bamba doesnt even project to be a journeyman center right now. I see WCJ as a 10-12 ppg, 7-9 rpg type of player. and thats only if he can stay healthy which he hasnt in 3 years
User avatar
swarlesbarkley
Analyst
Posts: 3,135
And1: 1,710
Joined: Jun 18, 2014
   

Re: Nikola Vučević and Al-Farouq Aminu traded to Chicago for Wendell Carter Jr and 2021/2023 1st Round Picks 

Post#400 » by swarlesbarkley » Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:00 pm

tiderulz wrote:
swarlesbarkley wrote:
tiderulz wrote:"got as much"?

a journeyman center with 1 year left on rookie deal and cannot stay healthy.

2 picks most likely to be 16-20ish.

thats the return you are shocked about?


"Journeyman center"?

WCJ is younger than Bamba.

yes. to me Bamba doesnt even project to be a journeyman center right now. I see WCJ as a 10-12 ppg, 7-9 rpg type of player. and thats only if he can stay healthy which he hasnt in 3 years


Ahh you're projecting that label. Gotcha. Pretty tough crowd considering WCJ putting up better numbers at 21 than Vuc at 21. Even if you compare year 3 to year 3 (WCJ 21 and Vuc 23), WCJ better shooting %, better assists, more FTs.

Return to Orlando Magic