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Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow!

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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1501 » by OrlandoNed » Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:41 am

fendilim wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
tiderulz wrote:i dont see any way we could get a 1st for Harris. he is that bad, and has been for years


Let's see how we do the reclamation project for him.

Remember last year when MAgic fans claimed we can barely get a 1st for Vuc?

Besides, if all those said about Harris are true ( the great locker room presence, can hold the team down etc etc) then I don't wanna let him go yet. He could be a good influence on our young guys
i dont think harris was brought in to be a reclamation project.

Similar to why we kept Tross this deadline, all direction points to Harris being a good locker room presence. I think that is what we need with out group of young guys. Similar to how all rebuilding teams bring in veterans to help the kids.

Harris was clearly not meant to be anything more than the most expendable piece that Denver could send to match AG's salary. RJ and the 1st were the only real value we got in that trade. Anything that Harris brings is purely a bonus.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1502 » by drsd » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:38 am

OrlandoNed wrote:Harris was clearly not meant to be anything more than the most expendable piece that Denver could send to match AG's salary. RJ and the 1st were the only real value we got in that trade. Anything that Harris brings is purely a bonus.


This might be true, but for now, the question is how he will be used as an asset. As of today, he is the projected starter at SG on openning night. That only changes if Orlando drafts a SG with its top-pick.

Then: will/should Orlando resign Harris - that will become an important question to answer. If no, then he could to be part of a trade package. And thus there is further value out of the Gordon trade.

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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1503 » by Knightro » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:25 am

drsd wrote:
OrlandoNed wrote:Harris was clearly not meant to be anything more than the most expendable piece that Denver could send to match AG's salary. RJ and the 1st were the only real value we got in that trade. Anything that Harris brings is purely a bonus.


This might be true, but for now, the question is how he will be used as an asset. As of today, he is the projected starter at SG on openning night. That only changes if Orlando drafts a SG with its top-pick.

Then: will/should Orlando resign Harris - that will become an important question to answer. If no, then he could to be part of a trade package. And thus there is further value out of the Gordon trade.


Meh.

I don't think it's out of the question that Hampton starts at SG depending on how the draft shakes out.

With Clifford gone I don't think it's a guarantee that any veterans play regular minutes.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1504 » by drsd » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:35 am

Knightro wrote:I don't think it's out of the question that Hampton starts at SG depending on how the draft shakes out.

With Clifford gone I don't think it's a guarantee that any veterans play regular minutes.


I totally agree that the new head coach will not take a legacy-based approach to this roster. Ever starting slot and every rotational minute will need to be earned. I am sure the players know this and are working very hard in anticipation of a new vision.

Actually this is part of the reason I do not think Orlando will be horrible next season. A 30+ win season is entirely reasonable for me if there are no major injuries. And a marginal playoff push in 2022/23 is my hope.

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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1505 » by Knightro » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:58 pm

drsd wrote:I totally agree that the new head coach will not take a legacy-based approach to this roster. Ever starting slot and every rotational minute will need to be earned. I am sure the players know this and are working very hard in anticipation of a new vision.

Actually this is part of the reason I do not think Orlando will be horrible next season. A 30+ win season is entirely reasonable for me if there are no major injuries. And a marginal playoff push in 2022/23 is my hope.


Man I totally disagree.

You could be looking at something like...

G: Fultz, Anthony
G: Veteran (Ross?), Hampton
F: 1st rounder, Okeke
F: Isaac, 1st rounder
C: WCJ, Bamba

That's an intriguing team from a youth perspective, but it's still a team with 7 of their top 10 players on their rookie contracts. Most young guys rarely impact winning for a while. I think that would be a young, fun and ultimately really bad team unless one of the rookies is just way better than anyone could have imagined.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1506 » by The Effect » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:55 pm

OrlandoNed wrote:
fendilim wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
Let's see how we do the reclamation project for him.

Remember last year when MAgic fans claimed we can barely get a 1st for Vuc?

Besides, if all those said about Harris are true ( the great locker room presence, can hold the team down etc etc) then I don't wanna let him go yet. He could be a good influence on our young guys
i dont think harris was brought in to be a reclamation project.

Similar to why we kept Tross this deadline, all direction points to Harris being a good locker room presence. I think that is what we need with out group of young guys. Similar to how all rebuilding teams bring in veterans to help the kids.

Harris was clearly not meant to be anything more than the most expendable piece that Denver could send to match AG's salary. RJ and the 1st were the only real value we got in that trade. Anything that Harris brings is purely a bonus.


I don't think that's 100% true
I think Harris was included in the trade for contract reasons, sure, but I think it's also because he's considered one of the better role model type veta that's good at taking young players under his wing and provide good leadership, which this young team would desperately need after trading away vuc, AG, Evan and aminu

I dont think Harris gets back to his 18ppg level of play, and do think Hampton would start over him if we don't get green, but I think Harris definitely has a place on this team for at least the next year
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1507 » by RookieStar » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:38 pm

The Effect wrote:
OrlandoNed wrote:
fendilim wrote:i dont think harris was brought in to be a reclamation project.

Similar to why we kept Tross this deadline, all direction points to Harris being a good locker room presence. I think that is what we need with out group of young guys. Similar to how all rebuilding teams bring in veterans to help the kids.

Harris was clearly not meant to be anything more than the most expendable piece that Denver could send to match AG's salary. RJ and the 1st were the only real value we got in that trade. Anything that Harris brings is purely a bonus.


I don't think that's 100% true
I think Harris was included in the trade for contract reasons, sure, but I think it's also because he's considered one of the better role model type veta that's good at taking young players under his wing and provide good leadership, which this young team would desperately need after trading away vuc, AG, Evan and aminu

I dont think Harris gets back to his 18ppg level of play, and do think Hampton would start over him if we don't get green, but I think Harris definitely has a place on this team for at least the next year


Yup. Agree. Good thing we have him under contract for next season then. If TD comes and we get a good deal for him, we can always ask him if he wants to sign a lesser but longer deal OR a trade to a team he likes. By then, his good locker room influence would rub off with the rookies already.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1508 » by drsd » Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:11 pm

RookieStar wrote:Yup. Agree. Good thing we have him under contract for next season then. If TD comes and we get a good deal for him, we can always ask him if he wants to sign a lesser but longer deal OR a trade to a team he likes. By then, his good locker room influence would rub off with the rookies already.


If Orlando drafts either Cunningham or Moody, I really, really want Harris to start next year to teach the craft and then hand over the torch for 2022/23. I cannot see a better outcome of Harris' time in Orlando than as a mentor of his eventual replacement.

Frankly that excites me. And it also ensures that the new SG is not burdened with a requirement of immediate success from fans and media.

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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1510 » by Statlanta » Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:30 pm

I'm expecting a 20 win season next season. No reason to think our fortunes are changing especially when our starters are so fragile. Whomever the coach is should ship whatever players he doesn't like immediately before the players get tired of losing and the losing kills their value.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1511 » by RookieStar » Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:21 pm

drsd wrote:
RookieStar wrote:Yup. Agree. Good thing we have him under contract for next season then. If TD comes and we get a good deal for him, we can always ask him if he wants to sign a lesser but longer deal OR a trade to a team he likes. By then, his good locker room influence would rub off with the rookies already.


If Orlando drafts either Cunningham or Moody, I really, really want Harris to start next year to teach the craft and then hand over the torch for 2022/23. I cannot see a better outcome of Harris' time in Orlando than as a mentor of his eventual replacement.

Frankly that excites me. And it also ensures that the new SG is not burdened with a requirement of immediate success from fans and media.

..


Doesn't really have to start. Personal experience, never underestimate the influence ( good or bad ) a veteran who has "seen through the wars" have on you whether just talking to you or showing through example.

Imagine Cade/Suggs/Green as the starting 2-guard and Harris constantly giving advice/encouragement in the bench and when the games is over, he again shows the qualities that players from DEN credited him with by " taking control " of the locker room.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1512 » by Bensational » Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:56 pm

I’m a little wary that Harris’ locker room impact might have been a product of his situation in Denver, and may not carry over here. As an expiring contract on a developing team he’s a bit of a lame duck player, unsure of his role and future with this team. He may not have the same motivation to restore it since he’s not looking at a 4-8 year commitment to the team like he was in Denver.

Ross certainly seems like he might be our veteran. He seems happy in Orlando, and supportive of the young guys. Ross and MCW are the guys I’d love to see stick around to help develop the new team, but I could understand if both wanted to move on to contending teams instead.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1513 » by pepe1991 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:38 am

Bensational wrote:I’m a little wary that Harris’ locker room impact might have been a product of his situation in Denver, and may not carry over here. As an expiring contract on a developing team he’s a bit of a lame duck player, unsure of his role and future with this team. He may not have the same motivation to restore it since he’s not looking at a 4-8 year commitment to the team like he was in Denver.

Ross certainly seems like he might be our veteran. He seems happy in Orlando, and supportive of the young guys. Ross and MCW are the guys I’d love to see stick around to help develop the new team, but I could understand if both wanted to move on to contending teams instead.


Reasons why Harris isn't and won't be leader
a) he is not veteran. But 26 years old player
b) he never got some FAAT contract to the point where he would not care about his stats
c) he has never been great player, he was above average for like 1 and half year


Ross, imo, is too "buddy-buddy" with playes to be vocal leader. Maybe bring somebody like David West as assistent, who is no BS guy and who has enough years and has been great player.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1514 » by drsd » Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:31 am

Statlanta wrote:I'm expecting a 20 win season next season. No reason to think our fortunes are changing especially when our starters are so fragile. Whomever the coach is should ship whatever players he doesn't like immediately before the players get tired of losing and the losing kills their value.


If this was true, obviously Orlando might be drafting very high next year as well. Then coming in to a 2022/23 season where Fultz and Isaac are fully healthy, and Anthony, Hampton, Carter, Bamba and Okeke are all established veterans, one would need to be pretty positive when looking at the prospects of the 2022/23 season. Said rookie would be coming in to a great situation.


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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1515 » by Skybox » Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:28 pm

For the record, WeHam crushed it this trade deadline

...clearly, they won the Den trade. I'll happily concede that they won the CHI trade, although I do feel that Vuc is for real...two lightly protected picks and getting off Aminu is significant for this team at this time (the lottery will cement the value of the trade). I'm not a big WCJ fan, but there's no question that he's a solid player who will be in the league for a long time. I'm still hoping (not betting, but hoping) that Bamba, with a new coach reveals the potential for a floor-spreading, rim protecting octopus. WCJ is better today but I just don't see much of a ceiling for him. Still think Fournier should have fetched more but it was right to move him and it did save us some cap, in addition to the 2rp's....In summary, if WeHam find the right developmental visionary coach to corral and organize the mess of undeveloped potential our young roster now holds (including 2 lottery picks), they deserve a lot of credit. The criticism is whether they should have moved sooner is certainly valid, but I contend they maxed the return on both AG and Vuc.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1516 » by Skybox » Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:44 pm

As to what's next...

Obviously, the lottery and draft are the pinnacles of opportunity coming up, but...

Do we even talk to Otto Porter or just let him walk to a playoff team? If he came back at a reasonable deal, do we even want to deal with the injury risk, or do we relish the financial flexibility his absence creates? He's a nice player, if paid correctly, but does he even want to play for such a young squad? He could definitely fill a need at SF as a solid 3nD young vet.

Do we aggressively try to move Gary Harris' big expiring deal? I'd say more likely at the trade deadline, if some team sees a need for a tough defending, mature player for their playoff run...particularly if he plays well and regains his offense, to some extent. He's another good young (previously solid) 3nD vet who is a really nice piece -if paid correctly. I don't see a need to move too quickly on him as this will be a nursery school of a roster with (potentially) 3 more rookies coming to a team loaded with 2nd year guys.

Is our Center situation strong or weak? WCJ is adequate and sound but does Bamba have a rebirth with a new Coach that he resonates with? Both are coming up for extensions - what's the right move? Bamba has value, IMO - but will be revealed as a certain bust if the new Coach isn't the answer for him-easy to blame Curmudgeon Clifford, but that will ring hollow if Mo still stumbles. I'm Team Mo, but sometimes you have to make a move if you know more about a player's psyche than the other GMs (who think THEY will use him correctly).

Fultz and Isaac - stars on the rise or coulda, shoulda, woulda patients with long deals (see OPJ, Kemba, Hayward, Love, KP, Wall)...all nice players but once the injury bug hit hard, their contracts made them cautionary tales (I realize their deals are reasonable-but will seem less so, if they're in street clothes too often).

It will take a special Coach to survive with this roster...so much potential, so much youthful goofiness. Can Bamba be saved? Which Okeke is the real one? What are Cole's and Hampton's ceilings if their games mature a bit, etc. etc. all the way down the roster.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1517 » by RookieStar » Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:43 pm

Skybox wrote:As to what's next...

Obviously, the lottery and draft are the pinnacles of opportunity coming up, but...

Do we even talk to Otto Porter or just let him walk to a playoff team? If he came back at a reasonable deal, do we even want to deal with the injury risk, or do we relish the financial flexibility his absence creates? He's a nice player, if paid correctly, but does he even want to play for such a young squad? He could definitely fill a need at SF as a solid 3nD young vet.

Do we aggressively try to move Gary Harris' big expiring deal? I'd say more likely at the trade deadline, if some team sees a need for a tough defending, mature player for their playoff run...particularly if he plays well and regains his offense, to some extent. He's another good young (previously solid) 3nD vet who is a really nice piece -if paid correctly. I don't see a need to move too quickly on him as this will be a nursery school of a roster with (potentially) 3 more rookies coming to a team loaded with 2nd year guys.

Is our Center situation strong or weak? WCJ is adequate and sound but does Bamba have a rebirth with a new Coach that he resonates with? Both are coming up for extensions - what's the right move? Bamba has value, IMO - but will be revealed as a certain bust if the new Coach isn't the answer for him-easy to blame Curmudgeon Clifford, but that will ring hollow if Mo still stumbles. I'm Team Mo, but sometimes you have to make a move if you know more about a player's psyche than the other GMs (who think THEY will use him correctly).

Fultz and Isaac - stars on the rise or coulda, shoulda, woulda patients with long deals (see OPJ, Kemba, Hayward, Love, KP, Wall)...all nice players but once the injury bug hit hard, their contracts made them cautionary tales (I realize their deals are reasonable-but will seem less so, if they're in street clothes too often).

It will take a special Coach to survive with this roster...so much potential, so much youthful goofiness. Can Bamba be saved? Which Okeke is the real one? What are Cole's and Hampton's ceilings if their games mature a bit, etc. etc. all the way down the roster.


Honestly? Let Otto walk. Both parties would think it's a win-win situation in that scenario. As to Gary, it's 50/50. Reports are saying he is shaping up back to his old form at the end pf the season AND more importantly, a lot of our guys have spoken up about his good locker room influence. That is priceless especially in our situation next season where we have 3 rookies and 3 sophomores plus Fultz/JI/WCJ/Mo aren't exactly considered vets.

Then again, that 20M price tag coupled with the overloaded position makes you really think what is more important for our situation. I mean with the return of Fultz and MCW as well as the hopeful incoming of Green/Suggs/Cade and maybe a Wagner/BOuknight/wings-galore....
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1518 » by basketballRob » Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:24 am

We could stretch Harris contact and have 31m in cap space and a 17m tpe, 4m tpe, 2m tpe. Let's go all in if we get Cade!

That's the Charlotte blueprint from last season. Draft Ball, stretch Batum, and then sign Hayward.

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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1519 » by MasterGMer » Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:08 am

basketballRob wrote:We could stretch Harris contact and have 31m in cap space and a 17m tpe, 4m tpe, 2m tpe. Let's go all in if we get Cade!

That's the Charlotte blueprint from last season. Draft Ball, stretch Batum, and then sign Hayward.

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We have 18M now without our lottery pick(s). How can we get it to 31M? Stretch Harris for how many years by the rule?

Most importantly, who do you want in Free Agency if we do have 31M?
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1520 » by RookieStar » Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:20 am

MasterGMer wrote:
basketballRob wrote:We could stretch Harris contact and have 31m in cap space and a 17m tpe, 4m tpe, 2m tpe. Let's go all in if we get Cade!

That's the Charlotte blueprint from last season. Draft Ball, stretch Batum, and then sign Hayward.

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We have 18M now without our lottery pick(s). How can we get it to 31M? Stretch Harris for how many years by the rule?

Most importantly, who do you want in Free Agency if we do have 31M?


Better yet, ask.who is available in FA cuz as far as I know, this season is slim pickings. The big FA bonanza is supposed to 22 or 23? Not sure.

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