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Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow!

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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1241 » by JBSouthpaw » Wed May 5, 2021 3:29 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
To me, still don't think they will be any better than what we gave up for them. It is like swapping mediocrity for future mediocrity that is most likely not as good.

You stay in mediocrity by not taking shots.
Look at Boston, all this talent?? they should have taken a real shot and moved some of those players. Any of these super stars that moved in the last 2 years, BOS could have offered a better package.

The FO is taking a shot, it may not work out, but it just may.
When it comes down to it, that is all I want, a FO willing to take these shots, vs. the safe way.

I know I fall on the optimistic side, but I can't fathom being so negative about a season that isn't even here yet.

best home run hitters usually are at the top of strike outs too.


Hopefully, one of the two 1st round picks this year ends up an All-Star talent, otherwise, Magic downgraded and will need to tank another couple years til they get lucky and magically win an all-star level talent in the draft.


It may be more of 1 step back for 2 steps forward vs. "downgraded".

This team going forward is going to be so different, not sure you can compare.

Our PGs will be able to play faster, Vuc and Evan couldn't do that.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1242 » by pepe1991 » Wed May 5, 2021 3:49 pm

JBSouthpaw wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:You stay in mediocrity by not taking shots.
Look at Boston, all this talent?? they should have taken a real shot and moved some of those players. Any of these super stars that moved in the last 2 years, BOS could have offered a better package.

The FO is taking a shot, it may not work out, but it just may.
When it comes down to it, that is all I want, a FO willing to take these shots, vs. the safe way.

I know I fall on the optimistic side, but I can't fathom being so negative about a season that isn't even here yet.

best home run hitters usually are at the top of strike outs too.


Hopefully, one of the two 1st round picks this year ends up an All-Star talent, otherwise, Magic downgraded and will need to tank another couple years til they get lucky and magically win an all-star level talent in the draft.


It may be more of 1 step back for 2 steps forward vs. "downgraded".

This team going forward is going to be so different, not sure you can compare.

Our PGs will be able to play faster, Vuc and Evan couldn't do that.


Yea because mindless runing with no floor spacing ,very little talent is execelly what wins you games.

We went from having 16# pace with Vuc and Evan to having 19# pace without them. Turns out that taking bad shots regardless of speed you sprint or walk to other side doesn't help you shoot or defend better. Shocking.

How usless pace is when it comes to winning. Well fastest nba team are Wizards sitting 5 games below 500. 4th fastest nba team after allstar break is non other than OKlahoma. I think they won like 2 out of 22 games in that period.

On other side of a spectrum, some of slowest NBA teams are Clippers, Nuggets and Suns.

Turns out running isn't very beneficial in sport that is skill, not high jumping and sprinting based. Shocking.

We didn't play slow because it was "good for Vučević" despite casual fans thinking so, we played slow because there is no benefits from playing fast other than increesing chance for injury in mindless sprinting. Also fast pace more often than not just leads to terrible shotjacking. That's why fastest paced teams always tend to have most shot-jackers . Is anybody suprised that fastest NBA teams are teams that have Towns, Wiggins, Edwards, Beal, Westbrook leading them in shots?

i don't know what holds for us, but for our guards, having virtually nobody that can hit open shots or make right decisons with ball, most defenetly won't be beneficial. Especially point guards. But some people think guy shooting 30% for 3 yet takes 5 threes a game is good sing of character ...
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1243 » by basketballRob » Wed May 5, 2021 4:09 pm

It'll be interesting how things play out next season. We've been a really bad offensive team for years with the players we traded getting almost all the usage.

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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1244 » by yoyojw17 » Wed May 5, 2021 4:23 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:
drsd wrote:
Exactly.

Look Magic fans, we have seen that Okeke is an NBA caliber player. We are learning what Bamba can bring when not sulking. We learned that Anthony has swagger and that Hampton is more than a bust. At worst, Orlando now knows it has a deep bench. A HIT on one of the two FRPs and a good FA signing and the Magic will be competitive again.

One can tell a scenario where the Magic has 48+ wins in the 2022/23 season.

I am glad we are seeing players develop. Even if that hurts in the quest for little white balls that fly around a hopper.

.


AND You left out Carter, who has been a bit of a diamond in the rough for us.


To me, still don't think they will be any better than what we gave up for them. It is like swapping mediocrity for future mediocrity that is most likely not as good.


Well, we've already seen some good flashes from all of them. And unlike some of the previous players... there is a lot of untapped potentials that will hopefully rise with their opportunity and hopefully a full off-season of training. We still have to remember that even players like cole anthony and rj hampton were at the top of their recruitment classes and were both 5 star players. I know this doesn't guarantee anything.... but it does help at least demarcate some of the potentials that could exist in the future.

needless to say... after all of this attempt to get a SG of the future... that player may already be on this team. And that's why i want to see what they look like going down the stretch where they are given their time to be EVALUATED during season play.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1245 » by Kent » Wed May 5, 2021 5:24 pm

Looking at the remaining games...

I can't recall any Magic season that ended in so many consecutive road games.

Granted, it's a different season with a different end date.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1246 » by BadMofoPimp » Wed May 5, 2021 5:29 pm

JBSouthpaw wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:You stay in mediocrity by not taking shots.
Look at Boston, all this talent?? they should have taken a real shot and moved some of those players. Any of these super stars that moved in the last 2 years, BOS could have offered a better package.

The FO is taking a shot, it may not work out, but it just may.
When it comes down to it, that is all I want, a FO willing to take these shots, vs. the safe way.

I know I fall on the optimistic side, but I can't fathom being so negative about a season that isn't even here yet.

best home run hitters usually are at the top of strike outs too.


Hopefully, one of the two 1st round picks this year ends up an All-Star talent, otherwise, Magic downgraded and will need to tank another couple years til they get lucky and magically win an all-star level talent in the draft.


It may be more of 1 step back for 2 steps forward vs. "downgraded".

This team going forward is going to be so different, not sure you can compare.

Our PGs will be able to play faster, Vuc and Evan couldn't do that.


So, if we tank 2-3 years and end up with another Dipo, AG and most likely another Mario, then we wasted 3 years to be right back where we started 8 years ago. And, this is the highest odds of where we will end up.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1247 » by pepe1991 » Wed May 5, 2021 5:46 pm

yoyojw17 wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:
AND You left out Carter, who has been a bit of a diamond in the rough for us.


To me, still don't think they will be any better than what we gave up for them. It is like swapping mediocrity for future mediocrity that is most likely not as good.


Well, we've already seen some good flashes from all of them. And unlike some of the previous players... there is a lot of untapped potentials that will hopefully rise with their opportunity and hopefully a full off-season of training. We still have to remember that even players like cole anthony and rj hampton were at the top of their recruitment classes and were both 5 star players. I know this doesn't guarantee anything.... but it does help at least demarcate some of the potentials that could exist in the future.

needless to say... after all of this attempt to get a SG of the future... that player may already be on this team. And that's why i want to see what they look like going down the stretch where they are given their time to be EVALUATED during season play.


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Look at age of all of them

Empty stats on bad teams gave false sense of "bright future" because basketball is sport where somebody will end up with fat box score regardless.

This team today is nowhere near as talented as 2014-15 Magic. Actually, one Gordon was exponentionally more talented than any current Magic player. We just botched his development with yoyoing his position and trying to develop his delusions instad of making him strong pick&roll rolling big and hard working PF.

Needless to say, outside of maybe Cade, this upcomming draft doesn't even have Oladipo level of talent.

We are far, far away from being relevant .
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1248 » by basketballRob » Wed May 5, 2021 6:24 pm

More than likely we'll have a couple of allstars out of the players we already have. I said the same thing years ago and no one believed it. Dipo and Vuc became allstars out of that group.

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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1249 » by thelead » Wed May 5, 2021 6:58 pm

I'm just numb to all of this at this point. Here we are, back to praying for luck. It has gone SO WELL the last decade. If we all just pray a little bit harder, maybe it'll happen this time.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1250 » by yoyojw17 » Wed May 5, 2021 8:03 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
yoyojw17 wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
To me, still don't think they will be any better than what we gave up for them. It is like swapping mediocrity for future mediocrity that is most likely not as good.


Well, we've already seen some good flashes from all of them. And unlike some of the previous players... there is a lot of untapped potentials that will hopefully rise with their opportunity and hopefully a full off-season of training. We still have to remember that even players like cole anthony and rj hampton were at the top of their recruitment classes and were both 5 star players. I know this doesn't guarantee anything.... but it does help at least demarcate some of the potentials that could exist in the future.

needless to say... after all of this attempt to get a SG of the future... that player may already be on this team. And that's why i want to see what they look like going down the stretch where they are given their time to be EVALUATED during season play.


Image

Look at age of all of them

Empty stats on bad teams gave false sense of "bright future" because basketball is sport where somebody will end up with fat box score regardless.

This team today is nowhere near as talented as 2014-15 Magic. Actually, one Gordon was exponentionally more talented than any current Magic player. We just botched his development with yoyoing his position and trying to develop his delusions instad of making him strong pick&roll rolling big and hard working PF.

Needless to say, outside of maybe Cade, this upcomming draft doesn't even have Oladipo level of talent.

We are far, far away from being relevant .

And like life..... not every two players are the same either. therefore.... though there is a correlation... there are still no guarantees that this group of guys... with differents fits, skills, personalities won't break the box that you are currently trying to put them in. We will see. You can't sit here and assume that because... xyz team was like this... therefore the outcome of ABC won't be different.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1251 » by SOUL » Wed May 5, 2021 8:31 pm

Wait are people really arguing to run it back for 8th/9th years with players fighting to make it into the playoffs because .. doing it all over again might lead to the same outcome? It's like staying in a loveless marriage because the next person you fall for might turn into the same thing too.

What's the point of operating a sports team or cheering for a team if your team makes no effort to try to provide a different outcome, even if ultimately it is the same? You know the outcome of one group of players, the other is a complete mystery.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1252 » by Knightro » Wed May 5, 2021 8:41 pm

"We shouldn't rebuild because it isn't likely to work!" is simply not a justifiable excuse to stick with a 35-40 win, 8th seed maxed out roster with no tangible path towards improving on that.

Playing tankball is a long and difficult process that requires a lot of luck, but it's really one of the only ways a small market team can have sustained success outside of EXTREME luck scenarios like landing an MVP at 15 like Milwaukee did or an MVP caliber player in the 2nd round like Denver did or a multiple time DPOY in the late first like Utah did.

Hit on a star player in the draft, get them to to sign at least one contract extension (they all pretty much do because of RFA) and hope like hell before that before said star player's 2nd contract is up that you've done enough personnel wise to convince them to sign a third contract.

That's all teams like Orlando can really do.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1253 » by pepe1991 » Wed May 5, 2021 8:48 pm

Knightro wrote:"We shouldn't rebuild because it isn't likely to work!" is simply not a justifiable excuse to stick with a 35-40 win, 8th seed maxed out roster with no tangible path towards improving on that.

Playing tankball is a long and difficult process that requires a lot of luck, but it's really one of the only ways a small market team can have sustained success outside of EXTREME luck scenarios like landing an MVP at 15 like Milwaukee did or an MVP caliber player in the 2nd round like Denver did or a multiple time DPOY in the late first like Utah did.

Hit on a star player in the draft, get them to to sign at least one contract extension (they all pretty much do because of RFA) and hope like hell before that before said star player's 2nd contract is up that you've done enough personnel wise to convince them to sign a third contract.

That's all teams like Orlando can really do.


Playing tankball and failing at it is execlly how last rebuild played out.
Orlando did tanking rout just 5 years ago. Matter of fact Magic were terrible team that was low -key tanking no longer than 3 years ago.

Magic drafted two lottery picks with 6th pick in 2017 and 2018. 4 years later, they are again in position where 6th pick is most objective outcom.

So what a f** is now different other than fact you try to talk yourself into "new era" because 3 players from also self proclaimed" old era" aren't there?
Was 2016 "new era" compared to 2014 because Oladipo and Harris were no longer there ? Because , since Dwight asked for trade, decade ago, to me it's still same era. Irrelevant semi tanking with no superstar in sight.

Let's not even talk about fact that allegedly future" core" is made of Isaac, Fultz, Wendell Carter and Okeke, who only share 2 things in common:
1) not amazing talents
2) zero ability to stay healthy for long period of time
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1254 » by Knightro » Wed May 5, 2021 9:02 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Playing tankball and failing at it is execlly how last rebuild played out.
Orlando did tanking rout just 5 years ago. Matter of fact Magic were terrible team that was low -key tanking no longer than 3 years ago.

Magic drafted two lottery picks with 6th pick in 2017 and 2018. 4 years later, they are again in position where 6th pick is most objective outcom.

So what a f** is now different other than fact you try to talk yourself into "new era" because 3 players from also self proclaimed" old era" aren't there?
Was 2016 "new era" compared to 2014 because Oladipo and Harris were no longer there ? Because , since Dwight asked for trade, decade ago, to me it's still same era. Irrelevant semi tanking with no superstar in sight.

Let's not even talk about fact that allegedly future" core" is made of Isaac, Fultz, Wendell Carter and Okeke, who only share 2 things in common:
1) not amazing talents
2) zero ability to stay healthy for long period of time


The fact that you're suggesting Isaac, Fultz, Carter and Okeke is the core is where you lose me.

6 weeks ago was the very first step in what is almost assuredly going to be an extremely long rebuilding process in an effort to find all-star caliber talent. You can only overhaul so many spots at one trade deadline.

I would say it's more likely that every single player on the roster right now is gone in the next three years than is a certain part of the core.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1255 » by drsd » Wed May 5, 2021 9:05 pm

yoyojw17 wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:
AND You left out Carter, who has been a bit of a diamond in the rough for us.


To me, still don't think they will be any better than what we gave up for them. It is like swapping mediocrity for future mediocrity that is most likely not as good.


Well, we've already seen some good flashes from all of them. And unlike some of the previous players... there is a lot of untapped potentials that will hopefully rise with their opportunity and hopefully a full off-season of training. We still have to remember that even players like cole anthony and rj hampton were at the top of their recruitment classes and were both 5 star players. I know this doesn't guarantee anything.... but it does help at least demarcate some of the potentials that could exist in the future.

needless to say... after all of this attempt to get a SG of the future... that player may already be on this team. And that's why i want to see what they look like going down the stretch where they are given their time to be EVALUATED during season play.


I am still baffled as to why Orlando got Harris. Does the Magic see him as a player to resign?

..
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1256 » by BadMofoPimp » Wed May 5, 2021 9:11 pm

basketballRob wrote:More than likely we'll have a couple of allstars out of the players we already have. I said the same thing years ago and no one believed it. Dipo and Vuc became allstars out of that group.

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Tobias Harris is a borderline all-star this season.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1257 » by BadMofoPimp » Wed May 5, 2021 9:15 pm

Please, no Hasheem Thabeet!!!
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1258 » by pepe1991 » Wed May 5, 2021 9:20 pm

Knightro wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Playing tankball and failing at it is execlly how last rebuild played out.
Orlando did tanking rout just 5 years ago. Matter of fact Magic were terrible team that was low -key tanking no longer than 3 years ago.

Magic drafted two lottery picks with 6th pick in 2017 and 2018. 4 years later, they are again in position where 6th pick is most objective outcom.

So what a f** is now different other than fact you try to talk yourself into "new era" because 3 players from also self proclaimed" old era" aren't there?
Was 2016 "new era" compared to 2014 because Oladipo and Harris were no longer there ? Because , since Dwight asked for trade, decade ago, to me it's still same era. Irrelevant semi tanking with no superstar in sight.

Let's not even talk about fact that allegedly future" core" is made of Isaac, Fultz, Wendell Carter and Okeke, who only share 2 things in common:
1) not amazing talents
2) zero ability to stay healthy for long period of time


The fact that you're suggesting Isaac, Fultz, Carter and Okeke is the core is where you lose me.

6 weeks ago was the very first step in what is almost assuredly going to be an extremely long rebuilding process in an effort to find all-star caliber talent. You can only overhaul so many spots at one trade deadline.

I would say it's more likely that every single player on the roster right now is gone in the next three years than is a certain part of the core.


6 weeks ago we were on pace to finish with 7th worst record. After trading everybody with any talent, we are 6th worst.

Due our own incompetence, we will, for 6th time in 9 years finish with 5th or 6th or worst record but again, despite being in top 5- we will still not sniff near top 3 worst , witch still gives best chances for us to draft franchise altering star.
Next year, with return of Fultz & Isaac and SOME additions from free agency, it's highly unlikely they will be THIS bad. So again, we will be on treadmill between playin tournament and tanking.

This was year to suck it up and roll over, like Oklahoma did, regardless of trades ( notice how they kept Horford and SGA, but kept them away from court ) and retool roster with some talent next year. Instad, we opted to gut out roster for bodies, but in mean time we collected so much desparate bums that in fight for their own nba careers pushed us away from our orginal plan- tanking.

OKC has lost 18 of last 19 games. Why didn't we held onto Bone , Mane or Hall? They were terrible. That was execlly their purpose. To suck it up for us. Nooo,we had to go out of our way to sign f*** Mo Wagner who is worthless enough to not be worth anything for Celtics, but still is good enough to be heads and shoulder above G league guys and win us one game basically on his own.

Why, against Bulls, Carter Wiliams ( 28), Ross ( 30) Harris (28) and Ennis (31) are logging 30 min each?

We do this basically every year. ONly time we sucked enough to be terrible was that one year we finished with THE worst record in 2013. And ofc ,we got 2# pick. Oladipo. In all other years it's half a***ing with " culture building wins" at end of a season that have no meaning other than ruining tank.


I'm as anti tanker as it gets, just week ago i posted that i don't see much difference between drafting 2# or 4th. But here we are , dancing with 6th worst record. This is far away from comfort zone of me "not caring". We went from having 52,1% chance for top 4 pick to 39,6%. That -12,5% doesn't sound a lot, but that's literally chance for OKC to draft 1# 2# 3# or 4# ( individually).
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1259 » by pepe1991 » Wed May 5, 2021 9:33 pm

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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#1260 » by basketballRob » Wed May 5, 2021 9:51 pm

WCJ out tonight.

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