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Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow!

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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#721 » by JBSouthpaw » Wed Apr 7, 2021 5:49 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:if you are commited to Isaac & Carter PF/C duo, you need PG who can actually shoot.

I don't get where hype for Fultz comming from. Even if you somehow ignore fact guy has ACL tear and athletics being only thing that he is actually good at, last time we saw him healthy, he was easly one of worst starting PGs in nba.

Not only that his jumpshot saw no improvments whatsoever, he aslo shot really poorly from mid range.

Even his contract says how little Weltman and Hammond value him. He esencially got 2year- test drive with 3rd year being team's option. Basically, he has until 2023 to prove he is even worth keeping around as rotation peace, let alone "cornerstone". And he might not even be ready nor healthy enough to recover in time for year 1 of his test trail.

And for crying out loud, stop with this "his college " bulls***, he was done with college 4 years ago. 4 years ago Paul Millsap and Deandre Jordan were allstars and Trump was new president of US. Antient history.


It isn't hype, we've seen him run this team just fine. I'd rather have scorers around him.
Fultz can play some serious D on both guard spots.


I'm not moving assets to put "right " peaces around player that looks like Elfrid Payton's clone most of the nights. I would rather move him for somebody who has skillset required for PG position in 2021 and beyond.
He has been mediocre to bad defender his whole career, college included.

I really don't know what type of games you saw him, and his " serious D" is probably only in his pants.


You need to go back and watch Payton's Magic games. That is insulting, and down right wrong.
we are going to agree to disagree, because we won't see it another way until 2022.
I'll let you use your expertise about what fills his pants. :wink:
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#722 » by PrimeThyme » Wed Apr 7, 2021 5:53 pm

I'm not ready to give up on Fultz per se. I just consistently try to push back on the narrative that he was amidst a breakout pre-injury, or that he can still become the player he was at Washington. We have to adjust our expectations at this point.

You don't draft players to fit his playing style. If the BPA on the board is a PG you take him.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#723 » by pepe1991 » Wed Apr 7, 2021 5:56 pm

JBSouthpaw wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:
It isn't hype, we've seen him run this team just fine. I'd rather have scorers around him.
Fultz can play some serious D on both guard spots.


I'm not moving assets to put "right " peaces around player that looks like Elfrid Payton's clone most of the nights. I would rather move him for somebody who has skillset required for PG position in 2021 and beyond.
He has been mediocre to bad defender his whole career, college included.

I really don't know what type of games you saw him, and his " serious D" is probably only in his pants.


You need to go back and watch Payton's Magic games. That is insulting, and down right wrong.
we are going to agree to disagree, because we won't see it another way until 2022.
I'll let you use your expertise about what fills his pants. :wink:



Image

Basically since a day we traded for Fultz all Fultz hype has been about ability of nba guard to make WIDEEEE open jumper, or even worst, making wide open jumpers against nobody- at practice.
In games, it's pretty much like watching Payton, some drives, some passes, bust most of the time player less on offense, with fanbase that is not ready to accept reality ( yet).

I've said in past, if there was even 1% of chance that Fultz can live up to his predraft hype, 76ers would never let him go. They held onto Embiid for 3 years- for good reason, for Simmons on one season, and gave up on Fultz after year and half. It's clear that something was off.
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#724 » by MagicFan101 » Wed Apr 7, 2021 5:59 pm

PrimeThyme wrote:I'm not ready to give up on Fultz per se. I just consistently try to push back on the narrative that he was amidst a breakout pre-injury, or that he can still become the player he was from Washington. We have to adjust our expectations at this point.

You don't draft players to fit his playing style. If the BPA on the board is a PG you take him.


Right.

I don’t believe in the modern day that a good system can win a championship without super stars.

I do however, believe even a great super star will fail in a bad system (James Harden in Houston).

So don’t try to “fit players” to your roster until you find the super star you want to build a system around.

NOT ONE SINGLE PLAYER on this current roster is worth building or designing a system around. So I don’t care at all about what position they play or style or whatever or how it meshes with Player A or B on the current roster. If said player has the best available chance at being a franchise super star then pick that dude and figure out the system later.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#725 » by JBSouthpaw » Wed Apr 7, 2021 6:26 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
I'm not moving assets to put "right " peaces around player that looks like Elfrid Payton's clone most of the nights. I would rather move him for somebody who has skillset required for PG position in 2021 and beyond.
He has been mediocre to bad defender his whole career, college included.

I really don't know what type of games you saw him, and his " serious D" is probably only in his pants.


You need to go back and watch Payton's Magic games. That is insulting, and down right wrong.
we are going to agree to disagree, because we won't see it another way until 2022.
I'll let you use your expertise about what fills his pants. :wink:



Image

Basically since a day we traded for Fultz all Fultz hype has been about ability of nba guard to make WIDEEEE open jumper, or even worst, making wide open jumpers against nobody- at practice.
In games, it's pretty much like watching Payton, some drives, some passes, bust most of the time player less on offense, with fanbase that is not ready to accept reality ( yet).

I've said in past, if there was even 1% of chance that Fultz can live up to his predraft hype, 76ers would never let him go. They held onto Embiid for 3 years- for good reason, for Simmons on one season, and gave up on Fultz after year and half. It's clear that something was off.

These stats don't mean squat. 3 partial years vs. 6.
Eye test, you can see the difference. come on.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#726 » by basketballRob » Wed Apr 7, 2021 6:52 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
I'm not moving assets to put "right " peaces around player that looks like Elfrid Payton's clone most of the nights. I would rather move him for somebody who has skillset required for PG position in 2021 and beyond.
He has been mediocre to bad defender his whole career, college included.

I really don't know what type of games you saw him, and his " serious D" is probably only in his pants.


You need to go back and watch Payton's Magic games. That is insulting, and down right wrong.
we are going to agree to disagree, because we won't see it another way until 2022.
I'll let you use your expertise about what fills his pants. :wink:



Image

Basically since a day we traded for Fultz all Fultz hype has been about ability of nba guard to make WIDEEEE open jumper, or even worst, making wide open jumpers against nobody- at practice.
In games, it's pretty much like watching Payton, some drives, some passes, bust most of the time player less on offense, with fanbase that is not ready to accept reality ( yet).

I've said in past, if there was even 1% of chance that Fultz can live up to his predraft hype, 76ers would never let him go. They held onto Embiid for 3 years- for good reason, for Simmons on one season, and gave up on Fultz after year and half. It's clear that something was off.
You should make a thread and break down all his shooting percentages, when he's set to return. Cole needs a thread about his shooting also.

It worked for Chuma.

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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#727 » by JBSouthpaw » Wed Apr 7, 2021 6:56 pm

MagicFan101 wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:I'm not ready to give up on Fultz per se. I just consistently try to push back on the narrative that he was amidst a breakout pre-injury, or that he can still become the player he was from Washington. We have to adjust our expectations at this point.

You don't draft players to fit his playing style. If the BPA on the board is a PG you take him.


Right.

I don’t believe in the modern day that a good system can win a championship without super stars.

I do however, believe even a great super star will fail in a bad system (James Harden in Houston).

So don’t try to “fit players” to your roster until you find the super star you want to build a system around.

NOT ONE SINGLE PLAYER on this current roster is worth building or designing a system around. So I don’t care at all about what position they play or style or whatever or how it meshes with Player A or B on the current roster. If said player has the best available chance at being a franchise super star then pick that dude and figure out the system later.


We have failed taking BPA, multiple times in the last 10 years.
Had Evan, drafted Victor, Victor gone
We had Harris, took AG, had to trade Harris.
Had Vuc took Bamba, Vuc is gone.
Had AG, drafted J.I., AG gone

BPA has its merits, but after Cade, preference comes into play
and you have to build a team
You can't get your value out of similar positions.
Unless it's Cade, you don't draft a PG with our 1st pick (Or center).
We can't sink $16.5M of the CAP with a player still growing on the bench.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#728 » by MagicFan101 » Wed Apr 7, 2021 7:10 pm

JBSouthpaw wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:I'm not ready to give up on Fultz per se. I just consistently try to push back on the narrative that he was amidst a breakout pre-injury, or that he can still become the player he was from Washington. We have to adjust our expectations at this point.

You don't draft players to fit his playing style. If the BPA on the board is a PG you take him.


Right.

I don’t believe in the modern day that a good system can win a championship without super stars.

I do however, believe even a great super star will fail in a bad system (James Harden in Houston).

So don’t try to “fit players” to your roster until you find the super star you want to build a system around.

NOT ONE SINGLE PLAYER on this current roster is worth building or designing a system around. So I don’t care at all about what position they play or style or whatever or how it meshes with Player A or B on the current roster. If said player has the best available chance at being a franchise super star then pick that dude and figure out the system later.


We have failed taking BPA, multiple times in the last 10 years.
Had Evan, drafted Victor, Victor gone
We had Harris, took AG, had to trade Harris.
Had Vuc took Bamba, Vuc is gone.
Had AG, drafted J.I., AG gone

BPA has its merits, but after Cade, preference comes into play
and you have to build a team
You can't get your value out of similar positions.
Unless it's Cade, you don't draft a PG with our 1st pick (Or center).
We can't sink $16.5M of the CAP with a player still growing on the bench.


Let us say we have the #4 pick (where we currently stand) and Cade, Mobley and Green have all been selected.

Would you say no to Jalen Suggs simply because he is a Point Guard?

IMO, you take Suggs and trade Fultz.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#729 » by Xatticus » Wed Apr 7, 2021 7:11 pm

RookieStar wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
I expect it too. I mean compared him in PHI to us where he is launching 3s and midranges is already an improvement. Without the injury i was expecting him to continue his improvement.

i just dont think you can automatically expect shooting to improve. you can hope, but not just expect it.

Dwight couldnt increase his FT, AG and his 3 pt shot didnt improve until year 7, and now dropped back down in Denver. Oladipo still hasnt gotten his 3 pt shot up to league avg. in 3 years, Isaac hasnt improved his 3 pt shot. I mean, i hope it does because that is the last thing i think he is missing, but I just cant expect it right now.


Yeah but thats the thing... Fultz already had a reliable and an "ok" percentage shot in college. I mean thats why he was #1 after all. He was a threat from anywhere. He had all the tools for it. But in PHI ( if you believe the gossip of the motorcycle acident ) he lost his shot.


That was a different shot. The one he has now doesn't work. His offensive value all comes from transition. It's not just that he lacks a functional 3-point shot. He simply isn't good enough at anything to succeed in halfcourt offense. He can fairly reliably get that little mid-range jumper, but it isn't a good shot unless you have nothing cooking and a shot clock that is winding down. I'm not into writing off prospects, but I just don't see the path where he ends up being worth anything near what his next contract will pay him. The ink has dried and so we can only hope that he develops, but point guard is a position of need for us.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#730 » by J the Drafter » Wed Apr 7, 2021 7:13 pm

Fultz (like Payton) is a capable dribble penetration threat. He can beat his man, finish at the basket, and pass to an open teammate. Breaking down defenses is an important ability, and not one that should be undervalued.
Remember when Kobe elbowed Jameer in the chin so hard Jameer was knocked down and sent skidding across the floor?
Pepperidge Farm remembers.*

*Futurama
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#731 » by JBSouthpaw » Wed Apr 7, 2021 7:19 pm

MagicFan101 wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:
Right.

I don’t believe in the modern day that a good system can win a championship without super stars.

I do however, believe even a great super star will fail in a bad system (James Harden in Houston).

So don’t try to “fit players” to your roster until you find the super star you want to build a system around.

NOT ONE SINGLE PLAYER on this current roster is worth building or designing a system around. So I don’t care at all about what position they play or style or whatever or how it meshes with Player A or B on the current roster. If said player has the best available chance at being a franchise super star then pick that dude and figure out the system later.


We have failed taking BPA, multiple times in the last 10 years.
Had Evan, drafted Victor, Victor gone
We had Harris, took AG, had to trade Harris.
Had Vuc took Bamba, Vuc is gone.
Had AG, drafted J.I., AG gone

BPA has its merits, but after Cade, preference comes into play
and you have to build a team
You can't get your value out of similar positions.
Unless it's Cade, you don't draft a PG with our 1st pick (Or center).
We can't sink $16.5M of the CAP with a player still growing on the bench.


Let us say we have the #4 pick (where we currently stand) and Cade, Mobley and Green have all been selected.

Would you say no to Jalen Suggs simply because he is a Point Guard?

IMO, you take Suggs and trade Fultz.


So Suggs vs. the other guys left? Kuminga, Barnes, Moody, Johnson??
Not ready to say that, BUT in this scenario, if the FO has deemed Suggs immeasurably better, then yes, you take him.
But if the FO has players graded, say 8 for the SF and 8.5 for the PG, look at need.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#732 » by J the Drafter » Wed Apr 7, 2021 7:41 pm

JBSouthpaw wrote:We have failed taking BPA, multiple times in the last 10 years.
Had Evan, drafted Victor, Victor gone
We had Harris, took AG, had to trade Harris.
Had Vuc took Bamba, Vuc is gone.
Had AG, drafted J.I., AG gone

None of that was about fit, though.

Evan and Victor: someone high up wanted Ibaka, or at least a well-known power forward.
Harris and A.G.: Skiles refused to give Harris playing time in Milwaukee, and then refused to run Harris’ best plays here.
Vuc and Bamba/A.G. and J.I.: the front office decided to tank the season, and shipped out our three strongest and oldest players in pursuit of that goal.
Remember when Kobe elbowed Jameer in the chin so hard Jameer was knocked down and sent skidding across the floor?
Pepperidge Farm remembers.*

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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#733 » by tiderulz » Wed Apr 7, 2021 7:45 pm

Xatticus wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
tiderulz wrote:i just dont think you can automatically expect shooting to improve. you can hope, but not just expect it.

Dwight couldnt increase his FT, AG and his 3 pt shot didnt improve until year 7, and now dropped back down in Denver. Oladipo still hasnt gotten his 3 pt shot up to league avg. in 3 years, Isaac hasnt improved his 3 pt shot. I mean, i hope it does because that is the last thing i think he is missing, but I just cant expect it right now.


Yeah but thats the thing... Fultz already had a reliable and an "ok" percentage shot in college. I mean thats why he was #1 after all. He was a threat from anywhere. He had all the tools for it. But in PHI ( if you believe the gossip of the motorcycle acident ) he lost his shot.


That was a different shot. The one he has now doesn't work. His offensive value all comes from transition. It's not just that he lacks a functional 3-point shot. He simply isn't good enough at anything to succeed in halfcourt offense. He can fairly reliably get that little mid-range jumper, but it isn't a good shot unless you have nothing cooking and a shot clock that is winding down. I'm not into writing off prospects, but I just don't see the path where he ends up being worth anything near what his next contract will pay him. The ink has dried and so we can only hope that he develops, but point guard is a position of need for us.

Shaun Livingston is the best hoped for comparison for Fultz without a 3 pt shot. but that isnt a $20mil/yr player
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#734 » by JBSouthpaw » Wed Apr 7, 2021 7:49 pm

J the Drafter wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:We have failed taking BPA, multiple times in the last 10 years.
Had Evan, drafted Victor, Victor gone
We had Harris, took AG, had to trade Harris.
Had Vuc took Bamba, Vuc is gone.
Had AG, drafted J.I., AG gone

None of that was about fit, though.

Evan and Victor: someone high up wanted Ibaka, or at least a well-known power forward.
Harris and A.G.: Skiles refused to give Harris playing time in Milwaukee, and then refused to run Harris’ best plays here.
Vuc and Bamba/A.G. and J.I.: the front office decided to tank the season, and shipped out our three strongest and oldest players in pursuit of that goal.


They couldn't fit, that most certainly was the case.

No, they didn't want to pay Victor after paying Evan, then Serge and AG couldn't play together.
Harris & AG - No, neither could play SF, weren't going to pay both
The Vuc this def more muddied. They just decided to go all in. BUT just imagine if they would have drafted a PG instead. Sexton or SGA would have been our PG instead of DJ.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#735 » by BCS » Wed Apr 7, 2021 8:09 pm

basketballRob wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:
You need to go back and watch Payton's Magic games. That is insulting, and down right wrong.
we are going to agree to disagree, because we won't see it another way until 2022.
I'll let you use your expertise about what fills his pants. :wink:



Image

Basically since a day we traded for Fultz all Fultz hype has been about ability of nba guard to make WIDEEEE open jumper, or even worst, making wide open jumpers against nobody- at practice.
In games, it's pretty much like watching Payton, some drives, some passes, bust most of the time player less on offense, with fanbase that is not ready to accept reality ( yet).

I've said in past, if there was even 1% of chance that Fultz can live up to his predraft hype, 76ers would never let him go. They held onto Embiid for 3 years- for good reason, for Simmons on one season, and gave up on Fultz after year and half. It's clear that something was off.
You should make a thread and break down all his shooting percentages, when he's set to return. Cole needs a thread about his shooting also.

It worked for Chuma.

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I was about to thank pepe....but true, he might need to create a thread to make it official...lol

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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#736 » by pepe1991 » Wed Apr 7, 2021 8:19 pm

J the Drafter wrote:Fultz (like Payton) is a capable dribble penetration threat. He can beat his man, finish at the basket, and pass to an open teammate. Breaking down defenses is an important ability, and not one that should be undervalued.


Non of them ever runned even average or even funcional offense let alone elite nba offense, mostly because how predictable they are.

Especially in half court set, they have no value,as , off ball, they offer nothing.

Eric Bledsoe is better defender than Fultz , shoots better than Fultz , is more durable than Fultz, yet i highly doubt anybody considers him anything but mediocre PG

Image

This is how he was defended in half court. Defenders treat him as complete no treat. I can't remember when was last time somebody tried to battle to go over a screen when Fultz played. Almost everything he does, in terms of personal stats, is in transition. That's not playoff sustainable offense.
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#737 » by RookieStar » Wed Apr 7, 2021 8:22 pm

Xatticus wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
tiderulz wrote:i just dont think you can automatically expect shooting to improve. you can hope, but not just expect it.

Dwight couldnt increase his FT, AG and his 3 pt shot didnt improve until year 7, and now dropped back down in Denver. Oladipo still hasnt gotten his 3 pt shot up to league avg. in 3 years, Isaac hasnt improved his 3 pt shot. I mean, i hope it does because that is the last thing i think he is missing, but I just cant expect it right now.


Yeah but thats the thing... Fultz already had a reliable and an "ok" percentage shot in college. I mean thats why he was #1 after all. He was a threat from anywhere. He had all the tools for it. But in PHI ( if you believe the gossip of the motorcycle acident ) he lost his shot.


That was a different shot. The one he has now doesn't work. His offensive value all comes from transition. It's not just that he lacks a functional 3-point shot. He simply isn't good enough at anything to succeed in halfcourt offense. He can fairly reliably get that little mid-range jumper, but it isn't a good shot unless you have nothing cooking and a shot clock that is winding down. I'm not into writing off prospects, but I just don't see the path where he ends up being worth anything near what his next contract will pay him. The ink has dried and so we can only hope that he develops, but point guard is a position of need for us.


Exactly. What changed? As has been said, or gossip or whatnot, it was due to an accident. I really dont know if its true or not. He has been trying to get it back though. And don't tell me you havent seen the improvements from when he first came here? At least now he actually takes the wide open shots.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#738 » by pepe1991 » Wed Apr 7, 2021 8:30 pm

BCS wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:

Image

Basically since a day we traded for Fultz all Fultz hype has been about ability of nba guard to make WIDEEEE open jumper, or even worst, making wide open jumpers against nobody- at practice.
In games, it's pretty much like watching Payton, some drives, some passes, bust most of the time player less on offense, with fanbase that is not ready to accept reality ( yet).

I've said in past, if there was even 1% of chance that Fultz can live up to his predraft hype, 76ers would never let him go. They held onto Embiid for 3 years- for good reason, for Simmons on one season, and gave up on Fultz after year and half. It's clear that something was off.
You should make a thread and break down all his shooting percentages, when he's set to return. Cole needs a thread about his shooting also.

It worked for Chuma.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app
I was about to thank pepe....but true, he might need to create a thread to make it official...lol

Sent from my SM-A716U using RealGM mobile app


I opened " ex Magic players" thread in 2016, and in whole thread it was people convincing themselfs how Harris, Sabonis, Oladipo trades were not bad...
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#739 » by MagicTownBaller » Thu Apr 8, 2021 2:11 pm

Read on Twitter


Wow!
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Re: Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow! 

Post#740 » by MagicFan101 » Thu Apr 8, 2021 2:22 pm

MagicTownBaller wrote:
Read on Twitter


Wow!



Just saw!!!


I’m soooo **** happy right now!

Return to Orlando Magic