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21-22 FA you'd like to add?

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Re: 21-22 FA you'd like to add? 

Post#21 » by Skin » Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:58 am

cedric76 wrote:
Skin wrote:NO ONE.... like Knightro said...

But I wouldn't even retain Otto... This summer SUCKS.... BUT NEXT summer is LOADED!

Next year, develop youngin's
Following year, GO BIG!
...and if that don't work, wait for VUC!!!! *I can't believe I said that* :lol: :lol: :lol:


So the best move it to offer a huge 1yr contract to otto

So we still have his bird right for summer 2022 and keep our cap flexibility for that summer

Isaac is coming back next year. Chuma is going to play more SF. Why would we want a huge contract to Otto just so that he plants Chuma on the bench? Forget it. Besides, Ross can play backup SF.
Markelle Fultz, Jalen Green, Chuma Okeke, Jonathan Isaac, Wendell Carter Jr.
Cole Anthony, RJ Hampton, Corey Kispert, Mo Bamba. LET'S GO!
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Re: 21-22 FA you'd like to add? 

Post#22 » by drsd » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:24 pm

Knightro wrote:No one.


And-1

The Magic make their move in the 2022 off-season. That's when all the savings add up for the big spend.


I wouldn't retain Birch, Ennis or Bacon either. If they want to resign Porter Jr, so be it. I'd also trade Ross. He should have a lot of value around the league.


Orlando will need a 3rd string SG, so I am ok with Bacon being retained. Birch really dpends on a contract level. He might command 5M per season on the opp-market. THat's to rich for Orlando. Ennis looks to want to move on and there is zero insntive to keep him here.

Harris and MCW can be the veteran leaders next year. With second contract Fultz and Isaac being forced to assume leadership roles, ready or not.


Agreed. But Harris might need to come off of the bench, playing next to Ross as a bench SF, if the Magic go with an ace SG in the draft. I see Anthony starting opening night with Carter-Williams probably getting the major PG back-up minutes. But if Hampton has a "growth spurt" in his game, Carter-Williams could get some SF minutes as well.


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Re: 21-22 FA you'd like to add? 

Post#23 » by drsd » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:26 pm

DroseReturnChi wrote:its really easy building championship contenders. basically you copy okc presti.


WHat on earth is OKC going to do with 34 draft picks over the next 7 years ?!?!?!?

Even their 17 FRPs is more than a team's roster.


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Re: 21-22 FA you'd like to add? 

Post#24 » by drsd » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:28 pm

zaymon wrote:So next year we will have:

4 Guards: Fultz, Anthony, Harris, Hampton

5 Wings/Forward: Isaac, Okeke, Ross, MCW, Bacon

2 Centers: Carter, Bamba

Thats 11 players + propably 2 lottery talents= 13.
We need 2 more.


Orlando's high SRP probably makes the team. So there is room for only one FA. If the Magic resign Birch, the roster is finished.


I would try to resign Porter on the cheap.


Or Porter.


But: There is a lot if speculation that Orlando would buy-out Porter (so he can join the Lakers). Of course, that is not real until it is.


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Re: 21-22 FA you'd like to add? 

Post#25 » by Max Power » Thu Apr 1, 2021 12:29 am

Having Otto Porter, who’s a classic overpay player isn’t a logical move outside of his contract coming off the books for us. I’d rather see the Magic bring in some different 3’s via the draft or a cheaper option for next year. I’d rather keep T-Ross personally also. Porter doesn’t move the needle for a rebuilding Magic squad. I think Harris and Ross and MCW serve the veteran presence on this young team just fine till the young guys age into that role.
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Re: 21-22 FA you'd like to add? 

Post#26 » by cedric76 » Thu Apr 1, 2021 5:36 am

Skin wrote:
cedric76 wrote:
Skin wrote:NO ONE.... like Knightro said...

But I wouldn't even retain Otto... This summer SUCKS.... BUT NEXT summer is LOADED!

Next year, develop youngin's
Following year, GO BIG!
...and if that don't work, wait for VUC!!!! *I can't believe I said that* :lol: :lol: :lol:


So the best move it to offer a huge 1yr contract to otto

So we still have his bird right for summer 2022 and keep our cap flexibility for that summer

Isaac is coming back next year. Chuma is going to play more SF. Why would we want a huge contract to Otto just so that he plants Chuma on the bench? Forget it. Besides, Ross can play backup SF.


Oh dear
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Re: 21-22 FA you'd like to add? 

Post#27 » by pepe1991 » Thu Apr 1, 2021 6:23 am

drsd wrote:
DroseReturnChi wrote:its really easy building championship contenders. basically you copy okc presti.


WHat on earth is OKC going to do with 34 draft picks over the next 7 years ?!?!?!?

Even their 17 FRPs is more than a team's roster.


..


I've said it before even Gordon requested a trade, i find that stock piling complete overkill.
Vast majority of those picks have very little actual value. Most of them are not projected lottery picks.

I really see no value of adding eight 18 -20 years old on a roster drafted 17-30#. If you look back at previous drafts, most people taken with that range are out of nba after 4 to 6 years.

They will probably just try to draft somebody good in next 2 years and trade almost all of those picks for superstar(s).

Houston is best example why picks don't mean anything really. Houston didn't draft and keep lottery pick since 2011 Marcus Morris ( 14 pick, not even "lottery" ). Last 4 years they traded first round picks. In moment when they decided to start rebuild, they added like 300 first round picks in trades.

I think most GMs finally figured out that picks are nothing but assets. And if lottery isn't top 5-7 pick, it really isn't all that valuable as fans think it is. Probability of drafting allstar from 8-14 range is very, very low.

I think 12# pick hasn't turned into allstar since 1989 or something like that :lol:
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
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Re: 21-22 FA you'd like to add? 

Post#28 » by Skybox » Thu Apr 1, 2021 10:37 am

pepe1991 wrote:
drsd wrote:
DroseReturnChi wrote:its really easy building championship contenders. basically you copy okc presti.


WHat on earth is OKC going to do with 34 draft picks over the next 7 years ?!?!?!?

Even their 17 FRPs is more than a team's roster.


..


I've said it before even Gordon requested a trade, i find that stock piling complete overkill.
Vast majority of those picks have very little actual value. Most of them are not projected lottery picks.

I really see no value of adding eight 18 -20 years old on a roster drafted 17-30#. If you look back at previous drafts, most people taken with that range are out of nba after 4 to 6 years.

They will probably just try to draft somebody good in next 2 years and trade almost all of those picks for superstar(s).

Houston is best example why picks don't mean anything really. Houston didn't draft and keep lottery pick since 2011 Marcus Morris ( 14 pick, not even "lottery" ). Last 4 years they traded first round picks. In moment when they decided to start rebuild, they added like 300 first round picks in trades.

I think most GMs finally figured out that picks are nothing but assets. And if lottery isn't top 5-7 pick, it really isn't all that valuable as fans think it is. Probability of drafting allstar from 8-14 range is very, very low.

I think 12# pick hasn't turned into allstar since 1989 or something like that :lol:


When some owner decides his team is mediocre and, perhaps, his star player is already looking elsewhere...he gets to trade a BIG contract for expirings and the mostly false hope of multiple picks...really, he's just rationalizing all the money he's saving. HOU is the worst/best recent example - they could have had Jarrett Allen and Levert, but chose the expiring Oladipo, having no intention of paying him or keeping him...but, but look at all of the picks.

That's why you really have to give WeHam credit for the Vucevic deal - they traded him for picks that might really be significant - not a handful of BOS or DEN picks in the 20's. One high pick is worth a dozen late ones in the NBA.
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Re: 21-22 FA you'd like to add? 

Post#29 » by drsd » Thu Apr 1, 2021 10:44 am

pepe1991 wrote:I think most GMs finally figured out that picks are nothing but assets. And if lottery isn't top 5-7 pick, it really isn't all that valuable as fans think it is. Probability of drafting allstar from 8-14 range is very, very low.

I think 12# pick hasn't turned into allstar since 1989 or something like that :lol:


Picks in the 10-25 range are projected to be somewhere between marginal starters to useful rotational players. On rookie contracts, year 3 and 4 of such players is good value for filling out a roster. The moneyball-type GMs have figured that out. So will the player's association, and this will be a part of the next CBA negotiation. Having young players be cheaper than vets means shorter careers.

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Re: 21-22 FA you'd like to add? 

Post#30 » by pepe1991 » Thu Apr 1, 2021 11:15 am

drsd wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:I think most GMs finally figured out that picks are nothing but assets. And if lottery isn't top 5-7 pick, it really isn't all that valuable as fans think it is. Probability of drafting allstar from 8-14 range is very, very low.

I think 12# pick hasn't turned into allstar since 1989 or something like that :lol:


Picks in the 10-25 range are projected to be somewhere between marginal starters to useful rotational players. On rookie contracts, year 3 and 4 of such players is good value for filling out a roster. The moneyball-type GMs have figured that out. So will the player's association, and this will be a part of the next CBA negotiation. Having young players be cheaper than vets means shorter careers.

..


Interesting trivia: from 1980 to 2021, picks number 8 and pick number 12 gave epic amount of 2 allstar selections:
8th Pick: Vin Baker, MIL, 1993
12th Pick: Mookie Blaylock, NJN, 1989

I agree that players being ultra cheap for first 3,4 years allows this overuse of draft picks as "free" trail. But due their exstensions, if they are any good, rebuild as process can't last longer than 3 years. Simply gets too expensive very fast. (But again, that's because CBA is made in that fashion ).
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
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Re: 21-22 FA you'd like to add? 

Post#31 » by basketballRob » Thu Apr 1, 2021 11:36 am

pepe1991 wrote:
drsd wrote:
DroseReturnChi wrote:its really easy building championship contenders. basically you copy okc presti.


WHat on earth is OKC going to do with 34 draft picks over the next 7 years ?!?!?!?

Even their 17 FRPs is more than a team's roster.


..


I've said it before even Gordon requested a trade, i find that stock piling complete overkill.
Vast majority of those picks have very little actual value. Most of them are not projected lottery picks.

I really see no value of adding eight 18 -20 years old on a roster drafted 17-30#. If you look back at previous drafts, most people taken with that range are out of nba after 4 to 6 years.

They will probably just try to draft somebody good in next 2 years and trade almost all of those picks for superstar(s).

Houston is best example why picks don't mean anything really. Houston didn't draft and keep lottery pick since 2011 Marcus Morris ( 14 pick, not even "lottery" ). Last 4 years they traded first round picks. In moment when they decided to start rebuild, they added like 300 first round picks in trades.

I think most GMs finally figured out that picks are nothing but assets. And if lottery isn't top 5-7 pick, it really isn't all that valuable as fans think it is. Probability of drafting allstar from 8-14 range is very, very low.

I think 12# pick hasn't turned into allstar since 1989 or something like that
I could see Haliburton making an allstar team.

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Re: 21-22 FA you'd like to add? 

Post#32 » by pepe1991 » Thu Apr 1, 2021 11:43 am

basketballRob wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
drsd wrote:
WHat on earth is OKC going to do with 34 draft picks over the next 7 years ?!?!?!?

Even their 17 FRPs is more than a team's roster.


..


I've said it before even Gordon requested a trade, i find that stock piling complete overkill.
Vast majority of those picks have very little actual value. Most of them are not projected lottery picks.

I really see no value of adding eight 18 -20 years old on a roster drafted 17-30#. If you look back at previous drafts, most people taken with that range are out of nba after 4 to 6 years.

They will probably just try to draft somebody good in next 2 years and trade almost all of those picks for superstar(s).

Houston is best example why picks don't mean anything really. Houston didn't draft and keep lottery pick since 2011 Marcus Morris ( 14 pick, not even "lottery" ). Last 4 years they traded first round picks. In moment when they decided to start rebuild, they added like 300 first round picks in trades.

I think most GMs finally figured out that picks are nothing but assets. And if lottery isn't top 5-7 pick, it really isn't all that valuable as fans think it is. Probability of drafting allstar from 8-14 range is very, very low.

I think 12# pick hasn't turned into allstar since 1989 or something like that
I could see Haliburton making an allstar team.

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Good catch, i forgot he was 12# pick. But it's very hard to get through West and hype machines of big market teams to get to allstar game. Conley averaged 20 ppg and couldn't crack it for years until this year.
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
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Re: 21-22 FA you'd like to add? 

Post#33 » by drsd » Thu Apr 1, 2021 11:55 am

pepe1991 wrote:I agree that players being ultra cheap for first 3,4 years allows this overuse of draft picks as "free" trail. But due their exstensions, if they are any good, rebuild as process can't last longer than 3 years. Simply gets too expensive very fast. (But again, that's because CBA is made in that fashion ).


And we are seeing teams trade away said players, presumably ly to rinse-repeat bringing in a new rotational player on a rookie contract.

I am very confident this is a discussion point in CBA negotiations.


..
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Re: 21-22 FA you'd like to add? 

Post#34 » by basketballRob » Thu Apr 1, 2021 11:56 am

JBSouthpaw wrote:
CLosP wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:
Not really taking a shot by asking if we could upgrade. OKC has 3 young bigs that have shown a bit more of promise than our young guys.
I'm not here for a 2 year tank.
Besides the draft picks, we should add a piece this next year. Then next summer when we have $$, we can push towards the top of the EC.


Orlando should see what they have with Bamba now that he is healthy and not stuck behind Vooch and can compete. With WCJ, he is basically the center of the trade package so it makes sense to give him as much run as possible. I don’t mind Birch as a third big but he shouldn’t play ahead of these two guys. Also, if you aren’t here for a two year tank, I’m not sure what else to tell you lol. I don’t see us retooling that quickly with our two cornerstone pieces returning back from injury not knowing how they’ll be. There are still plenty of teams I would say would be better in a couple of years just based on their roster today unless we get lucky this draft and get an absolute stud.


I think the staff/NBA knows what we have in Bamba and Carter. If you are waiting for this switch to flip, I'm sorry Bamba isn't suddenly going to be able to move his feet faster, or magically box someone out who out weighs him by 50lbs. He is useful, but not at 30 min a game.

Next year isn't a tank year, we may not be in the playoffs or win more than 20, but we should have that as a goal. Tanking is when the starters are majority of crappy players, that won't be our starting five next year.
With Fultz, JI and two 1st round picks in the line up, we aren't tanking.
Some players will be getting better, back into shape (Fultz, J.I., Okeke, Cole)
Some will be learning how to play at the NBA level (two 1st rd picks)
That right there is 6 reasons we aren't taking. Add in MO & WCJ and the 2nd rd pick too for good measure.
We aren't running out Bacon, MCW, Ennis and 2 way players.
That is the difference.

I do like having Harris and Porter back, neither should keep a younger player on the bench, but both can really help.
I think those things with Mo's defense are correctable. That's probably the only thing he's working on with coaches right now. Every time he plays they can evaluate what progress they've made. Mo does move his feet good.

I also think Mo is a prideful guy and when I see him getting embarrassed on defense in these meaningless games, it's a good thing.

As long as he continues to get playing time, the coaches can continue to see what progress he's making and what he needs to work on.

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Re: 21-22 FA you'd like to add? 

Post#35 » by drsd » Thu Apr 1, 2021 12:14 pm

In the last three games, Okeke is on 32 mpg with 18.0/3.0/5.3.

That compares to Gordon's 29 mpg with 14.2/4.2/6.6.

Right now Okeke plays like Gordon on a more palatable contact.
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Re: 21-22 FA you'd like to add? 

Post#36 » by JBSouthpaw » Thu Apr 1, 2021 12:22 pm

basketballRob wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:
CLosP wrote:
Orlando should see what they have with Bamba now that he is healthy and not stuck behind Vooch and can compete. With WCJ, he is basically the center of the trade package so it makes sense to give him as much run as possible. I don’t mind Birch as a third big but he shouldn’t play ahead of these two guys. Also, if you aren’t here for a two year tank, I’m not sure what else to tell you lol. I don’t see us retooling that quickly with our two cornerstone pieces returning back from injury not knowing how they’ll be. There are still plenty of teams I would say would be better in a couple of years just based on their roster today unless we get lucky this draft and get an absolute stud.


I think the staff/NBA knows what we have in Bamba and Carter. If you are waiting for this switch to flip, I'm sorry Bamba isn't suddenly going to be able to move his feet faster, or magically box someone out who out weighs him by 50lbs. He is useful, but not at 30 min a game.

Next year isn't a tank year, we may not be in the playoffs or win more than 20, but we should have that as a goal. Tanking is when the starters are majority of crappy players, that won't be our starting five next year.
With Fultz, JI and two 1st round picks in the line up, we aren't tanking.
Some players will be getting better, back into shape (Fultz, J.I., Okeke, Cole)
Some will be learning how to play at the NBA level (two 1st rd picks)
That right there is 6 reasons we aren't taking. Add in MO & WCJ and the 2nd rd pick too for good measure.
We aren't running out Bacon, MCW, Ennis and 2 way players.
That is the difference.

I do like having Harris and Porter back, neither should keep a younger player on the bench, but both can really help.
I think those things with Mo's defense are correctable. That's probably the only thing he's working on with coaches right now. Every time he plays they can evaluate what progress they've made. Mo does move his feet good.

I also think Mo is a prideful guy and when I see him getting embarrassed on defense in these meaningless games, it's a good thing.

As long as he continues to get playing time, the coaches can continue to see what progress he's making and what he needs to work on.

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I am 100% fine being wrong, but I don't see his foot speed improving. Also, I am not saying he doesn't have a role, like 20 min a game. I'm just not seeing a starter, on starter money when his deal is up. $6-8M backup, I'd be pretty happy with that.
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Re: 21-22 FA you'd like to add? 

Post#37 » by basketballRob » Thu Apr 1, 2021 4:37 pm

JBSouthpaw wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:
I think the staff/NBA knows what we have in Bamba and Carter. If you are waiting for this switch to flip, I'm sorry Bamba isn't suddenly going to be able to move his feet faster, or magically box someone out who out weighs him by 50lbs. He is useful, but not at 30 min a game.

Next year isn't a tank year, we may not be in the playoffs or win more than 20, but we should have that as a goal. Tanking is when the starters are majority of crappy players, that won't be our starting five next year.
With Fultz, JI and two 1st round picks in the line up, we aren't tanking.
Some players will be getting better, back into shape (Fultz, J.I., Okeke, Cole)
Some will be learning how to play at the NBA level (two 1st rd picks)
That right there is 6 reasons we aren't taking. Add in MO & WCJ and the 2nd rd pick too for good measure.
We aren't running out Bacon, MCW, Ennis and 2 way players.
That is the difference.

I do like having Harris and Porter back, neither should keep a younger player on the bench, but both can really help.
I think those things with Mo's defense are correctable. That's probably the only thing he's working on with coaches right now. Every time he plays they can evaluate what progress they've made. Mo does move his feet good.

I also think Mo is a prideful guy and when I see him getting embarrassed on defense in these meaningless games, it's a good thing.

As long as he continues to get playing time, the coaches can continue to see what progress he's making and what he needs to work on.

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I am 100% fine being wrong, but I don't see his foot speed improving. Also, I am not saying he doesn't have a role, like 20 min a game. I'm just not seeing a starter, on starter money when his deal is up. $6-8M backup, I'd be pretty happy with that.
Well we aren't going to keep Mo for 6-8 million. It'll likely be 12-15.

He has another year to prove his worth.

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Re: 21-22 FA you'd like to add? 

Post#38 » by JBSouthpaw » Thu Apr 1, 2021 4:57 pm

basketballRob wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:
basketballRob wrote:I think those things with Mo's defense are correctable. That's probably the only thing he's working on with coaches right now. Every time he plays they can evaluate what progress they've made. Mo does move his feet good.

I also think Mo is a prideful guy and when I see him getting embarrassed on defense in these meaningless games, it's a good thing.

As long as he continues to get playing time, the coaches can continue to see what progress he's making and what he needs to work on.

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I am 100% fine being wrong, but I don't see his foot speed improving. Also, I am not saying he doesn't have a role, like 20 min a game. I'm just not seeing a starter, on starter money when his deal is up. $6-8M backup, I'd be pretty happy with that.
Well we aren't going to keep Mo for 6-8 million. It'll likely be 12-15.

He has another year to prove his worth.

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Agree with this and next year to figure it out.
But, if He were due a contract this summer, you'd be a sucker giving him 10+ with his track record.
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Re: 21-22 FA you'd like to add? 

Post#39 » by basketballRob » Thu Apr 1, 2021 5:03 pm

JBSouthpaw wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:
I am 100% fine being wrong, but I don't see his foot speed improving. Also, I am not saying he doesn't have a role, like 20 min a game. I'm just not seeing a starter, on starter money when his deal is up. $6-8M backup, I'd be pretty happy with that.
Well we aren't going to keep Mo for 6-8 million. It'll likely be 12-15.

He has another year to prove his worth.

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Agree with this and next year to figure it out.
But, if He were due a contract this summer, you'd be a sucker giving him 10+ with his track record.
He's been producing the last 3 game, so we'll see if he can keep it up.

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Re: 21-22 FA you'd like to add? 

Post#40 » by JBSouthpaw » Thu Apr 1, 2021 5:20 pm

basketballRob wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Well we aren't going to keep Mo for 6-8 million. It'll likely be 12-15.

He has another year to prove his worth.

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Agree with this and next year to figure it out.
But, if He were due a contract this summer, you'd be a sucker giving him 10+ with his track record.
He's been producing the last 3 game, so we'll see if he can keep it up.

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Ok, good to know, 11pts and 6 boards is producing.....
More impressed with 3 games in a row from him, he missed the previous 3.
I hope he isn't tired now.

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