A rebuilding model theory: Veteran PG

[Bensational]

This is clearly influenced by what Chris Paul has been doing in OKC and PHX, and it got me wondering what other veteran PGs are available who could have a similar impact.

Isaiah Thomas kind of did it with Boston. George Hill and Horford showed a similar veteran impact on OKC this season. But then Wall and Westbrook are looking like the antithesis of that.

Pepe has said similar things lately, but having a quality PG to direct court play is a big difference maker in competitiveness. There’s a lot to learn about running a team, even more if you’re also charged with becoming a leading scorer.

Trae and Morant are some young PGs who are becoming exceptions and finding that balance early on, but there aren’t any other young PG options I can think of doing the same.

A veteran PG could help propel a quality young wing into the playoffs and competitive basketball sooner than waiting for someone like Suggs to find the balance, for example.

But the league doesn’t seem to be too flush with obvious PGs who might be able to have the CP3 effect. Curry and Lillard obvs but they’re untouchable. Lowry for sure. Maybe Brogdon? Or McCollum?

It got me thinking about how this might effect draft strategy. Draft wise, D’Lo looked like the much more complete package over Booker and even had earlier success. But Booker + CP3 is so much more impactful as collective value than the independent BPA has proven to be so far.

So does that mean not all BPAs are created equally?

Just trying to open this working theory up for some discussion. Thoughts?

[MagicMatic]

This depends really on a few different factors.

Doncic, Simmons, Fox, Mitchell, Murray, Morant, etc. are all young engines for their respective teams. It’s not necessarily a positional status quo per se. Cade will likely fill into this role as well.

Sure, it helps to have a previous superstar in Chris Paul step into the locker room and completely change a team’s mentality day 1. It’s like having another coach on the floor but more involved.

Now, having said all that...

I’m not opposed to having vets on the team. However, Chris Paul is going to be a far superior get than someone like DJ Augustine. Also, the timeframe for this kind of player has to make sense. Not every 35 year old star vet would be “cool” with joining the Magic to teach a bunch of kids how to win while being ringless themselves.

Not all BPA’s are created equally. Fit DOES matter regardless of what anyone will say. Why? Because every situation and roster is different. Potential varies from person to person and their influences/habits form in the early stages of their professional careers. Playing time, style of play, and rosters matter in the context of draft picks. To pretend those things don’t is absurd.

Last point. Timeframes matter. Phoenix in this example have already spent numerous draft picks building their roster of the future. Booker, Ayton, Bridges, Cam are now surrounded by vets. At some point a team like Phoenix has to make those kind of moves to appease a player like Booker and prove to him that winning matters. Sure, they could have tanked for the draft, but what are the chances they land someone better than Booker to replace his production while competing with other lotto teams?

In Orlando’s case I think this idea would make sense with whichever position they chose not to fully invest with youth. I wouldn’t necessarily say Cam Payne is an investment they were concerned with Paul limiting his minutes.

[Bensational]

On the topic of PGs, a name I'm still interested in out of currently available players is Grant Riller. He's stuck behind a lot of backcourt depth in Charlotte, but I think he offers a very mature game for a young player. Plus, he can flat out shoot.

Sort of Malachi Flynn impact but Riller looks like he's got stronger shooting numbers. He could be a Monte Morris type impact player early on - which doesn't sound like much, but when Morris first emerged he became a hot name for a minute. He's still very solid and reliable.

If we could swap one of Anthony or Hampton for Riller + future draft capital, I would do it at this point.

[fendilim]

It really depends on the player you have imo.

CP and IT played with Booker and Tatum,respectively. Both needs a point guard to stabilize the offense. Pretty much what Derek Fisher was to Kobe.

[pepe1991]

It's always good to have established star that knows what it takes to take game to next level.
Most fans hate it because those guys take lot of shots, but it's not suprise that lot of great players were developed in competitive environments.
Ones who don't, more often than not turn into Wiggins type players.

[Skin]

It's not about a veteran PG. It's all about creating a environment where a star veteran would want to play.

CP3 in PHX is a good example. He wouldn't have wanted to get traded there if they didn't have Booker, Ayton, Bridges. ...and they messed up in the draft too with Len, Bender, Jackson, Chriss, etc.

Jimmy Butler is another good example. Miami established a young core of Herro, Adebayo, Robinson.

KD went to GS because they drafted Curry, Klay and Draymond.

Lebron left Miami to go to Cleveland because they drafted Kyrie.

But this is just one rebuilding model. There are others.

[basketballRob]

It's not about a veteran PG. It's all about creating a environment where a star veteran would want to play.

CP3 in PHX is a good example. He wouldn't have wanted to get traded there if they didn't have Booker, Ayton, Bridges. ...and they messed up in the draft too with Len, Bender, Jackson, Chriss, etc.

Jimmy Butler is another good example. Miami established a young core of Herro, Adebayo, Robinson.

KD went to GS because they drafted Curry, Klay and Draymond.

Lebron left Miami to go to Cleveland because they drafted Kyrie.

But this is just one rebuilding model. There are others.

I agree with building an environment. I think free agents will come here now since we got rid of the high usage guys that played no defense.

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[pepe1991]

Chris Paul didn't walk into Suns, Got traded to probably only team that could afford his massive contract.

Jimmy Butler didn't join established core of Adebayo (was backup in a moment) , Robinson( was deep bench , G league guy) or Herro ( wasn't even in nba yet).

KD went to a team that had best regular season record in nba history because it was easiest and safest path toward ringzzzz.

Lebron returned "home" because it was great marketing thing for him to do.


Nobody is comming to Orlando, it's a team that couldn't even keep Ibaka. ffs Gordon asked for trade, guy is Jae Crowder level player.
Only way how they become attractive destination is if they land superstar in draft and trade for another superstar that doesn't care where he plays, somebody like i don't know, Kevin Garnett.

[basketballRob]

Chris Paul didn't walk into Suns, Got traded to probably only team that could afford his massive contract.

Jimmy Butler didn't join established core of Adebayo (was backup in a moment) , Robinson( was deep bench , G league guy) or Herro ( wasn't even in nba yet).

KD went to a team that had best regular season record in nba history because it was easiest and safest path toward ringzzzz.

Lebron returned "home" because it was great marketing thing for him to do.


Nobody is comming to Orlando, it's a team that couldn't even keep Ibaka. ffs Gordon asked for trade, guy is Jae Crowder level player.
Only way how they become attractive destination is if they land superstar in draft and trade for another superstar that doesn't care where he plays, somebody like i don't know, Kevin Garnett.

But probably not happening just like it didn't happen ever before. This is a team that couldn't get Paul Millsap... Twice. Team that was turned down by Porzingis who decided to not go to draft in fear Magic will take him

Butler and CP asked to be traded to those places, no one asked to go play with Vuc and Fournier, and they never would.

I bet Lavine begs to be traded next season.

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[pepe1991]

Chris Paul didn't walk into Suns, Got traded to probably only team that could afford his massive contract.

Jimmy Butler didn't join established core of Adebayo (was backup in a moment) , Robinson( was deep bench , G league guy) or Herro ( wasn't even in nba yet).

KD went to a team that had best regular season record in nba history because it was easiest and safest path toward ringzzzz.

Lebron returned "home" because it was great marketing thing for him to do.


Nobody is comming to Orlando, it's a team that couldn't even keep Ibaka. ffs Gordon asked for trade, guy is Jae Crowder level player.
Only way how they become attractive destination is if they land superstar in draft and trade for another superstar that doesn't care where he plays, somebody like i don't know, Kevin Garnett.

But probably not happening just like it didn't happen ever before. This is a team that couldn't get Paul Millsap... Twice. Team that was turned down by Porzingis who decided to not go to draft in fear Magic will take him

Butler and CP asked to be traded to those places, no one asked to go play with Vuc and Fournier, and they never would.

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Best guess: forced you into bukkake one wild night and nothing for you is the same ever since.

[basketballRob]

Chris Paul has a no trade clause that he waived and Butler made it known he wanted to go to the Heat.

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[basketballRob]

Chris Paul didn't walk into Suns, Got traded to probably only team that could afford his massive contract.

Jimmy Butler didn't join established core of Adebayo (was backup in a moment) , Robinson( was deep bench , G league guy) or Herro ( wasn't even in nba yet).

KD went to a team that had best regular season record in nba history because it was easiest and safest path toward ringzzzz.

Lebron returned "home" because it was great marketing thing for him to do.


Nobody is comming to Orlando, it's a team that couldn't even keep Ibaka. ffs Gordon asked for trade, guy is Jae Crowder level player.
Only way how they become attractive destination is if they land superstar in draft and trade for another superstar that doesn't care where he plays, somebody like i don't know, Kevin Garnett.

But probably not happening just like it didn't happen ever before. This is a team that couldn't get Paul Millsap... Twice. Team that was turned down by Porzingis who decided to not go to draft in fear Magic will take him

Butler and CP asked to be traded to those places, no one asked to go play with Vuc and Fournier, and they never would.

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Best guess: forced you into bukkake one wild night and nothing for you is the same ever since.

We have a 9 year track record.

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[pepe1991]

Chris Paul has a no trade clause that he waived and Butler made it known he wanted to go to the Heat.

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A no-trade clause can be negotiated into a new contract if the player has been in the NBA for at least eight seasons, and has played for the team with which he is signing for at least four seasons. They don't have to be the four most recent seasons

yet another bull$it you made up.

It's pathetic at this stage, actually it has been pathetic for last 2 years and amount of crap you kept saying about mostly Vuc, literally making up stuff that never happend.

For a record for people who actually know anything about basketball- not a single current nba player has no trade clause in nba. It has been for few years now.

[basketballRob]

Chris Paul has a no trade clause that he waived and Butler made it known he wanted to go to the Heat.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

A no-trade clause can be negotiated into a new contract if the player has been in the NBA for at least eight seasons, and has played for the team with which he is signing for at least four seasons. They don't have to be the four most recent seasons

yet another bull$it you made up.

It's pathetic at this stage, actually it has been pathetic for last 2 years and amount of crap you kept saying about mostly Vuc, literally making up stuff that never happend.

For a record for people who actually know anything about basketball- not a single current nba player has no trade clause in nba. It has been for few years now.

He waived his no trade clause. They couldn't trade him unless he did. Half your post doesn't make sense.

I could care less about Vuc, what did we pay him like 250k for every win? Good riddance.


https://valleyofthesuns.com/2020/11/19/chris-paul-trade-phoenix-suns/

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[pepe1991]

Chris Paul has a no trade clause that he waived and Butler made it known he wanted to go to the Heat.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

A no-trade clause can be negotiated into a new contract if the player has been in the NBA for at least eight seasons, and has played for the team with which he is signing for at least four seasons. They don't have to be the four most recent seasons

yet another bull$it you made up.

It's pathetic at this stage, actually it has been pathetic for last 2 years and amount of crap you kept saying about mostly Vuc, literally making up stuff that never happend.

For a record for people who actually know anything about basketball- not a single current nba player has no trade clause in nba. It has been for few years now.

He waived his no trade clause. They couldn't trade him unless he did. Half your post doesn't make sense.

I could care less about Vuc, what did we pay him like 250k for every win? Good riddance.


https://valleyofthesuns.com/2020/11/19/chris-paul-trade-phoenix-suns/

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Chris paul DOES NOT HAVE NO TRADE CLAUSE, you sent link, where there is no single word of no clause. Hoopsrumors, basically the best basic info about everything in nba reports every year status of every player, for 2019-20 and 2020-21 ZERO NBA PLAYERS HAVE NO TRADE CLAUSE.

But no only that, Chris Paul was already TRADED AGAINST HIS WILL TO OKLAHOMA in first place, further more proving he has no trade clause.
Actual proof:

“Absolutely,” Paul said of having the feeling of being stabbed in the back (via Dan Feldman of NBC Sports). “This last situation was one of them. The GM there in Houston, he don’t owe me nothing. You know what I mean? He may tell me one thing but do another thing. But you just understand that that’s what it is.”

Vuc's D is so deep down your troat that you can't stop talking about him 24-7 and make up fake stories about him. Its' most bizzare obsession this forum has ever seen.

And for rest of stuff, like "Chris Paul no trade clause" you just make up stuff. it's creepy actually how you can make up things on sight just to feed into own delusion about something.

[Skin]

pepe be like...



Surprised the mods are letting get away with some of his spew... or maybe they haven't seen it yet.

[basketballRob]

A no-trade clause can be negotiated into a new contract if the player has been in the NBA for at least eight seasons, and has played for the team with which he is signing for at least four seasons. They don't have to be the four most recent seasons

yet another bull$it you made up.

It's pathetic at this stage, actually it has been pathetic for last 2 years and amount of crap you kept saying about mostly Vuc, literally making up stuff that never happend.

For a record for people who actually know anything about basketball- not a single current nba player has no trade clause in nba. It has been for few years now.

He waived his no trade clause. They couldn't trade him unless he did. Half your post doesn't make sense.

I could care less about Vuc, what did we pay him like 250k for every win? Good riddance.


https://valleyofthesuns.com/2020/11/19/chris-paul-trade-phoenix-suns/

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Chris paul DOES NOT HAVE NO TRADE CLAUSE, you sent link, where there is no single word of no clause. Hoopsrumors, basically the best basic info about everything in nba reports every year status of every player, for 2019-20 and 2020-21 ZERO NBA PLAYERS HAVE NO TRADE CLAUSE.

But no only that, Chris Paul was already TRADED AGAINST HIS WILL TO OKLAHOMA in first place, further more proving he has no trade clause.
Actual proof:

“Absolutely,” Paul said of having the feeling of being stabbed in the back (via Dan Feldman of NBC Sports). “This last situation was one of them. The GM there in Houston, he don’t owe me nothing. You know what I mean? He may tell me one thing but do another thing. But you just understand that that’s what it is.”

Vuc's D is so deep down your troat that you can't stop talking about him 24-7 and make up fake stories about him. Its' most bizzare obsession this forum has ever seen.

And for rest of stuff, like "Chris Paul no trade clause" you just make up stuff. it's creepy actually how you can make up things on sight just to feed into own delusion about something.

Chris Paul worked out the trade with the Suns. You're right he didn't have a no trade clause, but he did go to the team he wanted.




https://nba.nbcsports.com/2020/11/11/report-thunder-give-permission-to-chris-paul-to-work-out-phoenix-trade/

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[Skin]

Chris Paul didn't walk into Suns, Got traded to probably only team that could afford his massive contract.

Jimmy Butler didn't join established core of Adebayo (was backup in a moment) , Robinson( was deep bench , G league guy) or Herro ( wasn't even in nba yet).

KD went to a team that had best regular season record in nba history because it was easiest and safest path toward ringzzzz.

Lebron returned "home" because it was great marketing thing for him to do.


Nobody is comming to Orlando, it's a team that couldn't even keep Ibaka. ffs Gordon asked for trade, guy is Jae Crowder level player.
Only way how they become attractive destination is if they land superstar in draft and trade for another superstar that doesn't care where he plays, somebody like i don't know, Kevin Garnett.

Paul wanted out of OKC so he could try to win. That's all he's ever chased. PHX was his best option. He wanted OUT of OKC badly.

Butler joined an established team culture that Miami had built. He had success there because they drafted guys and developed them correctly. Adebayo was a backup and what did they do? They shipped off Whiteside and he bloomed! You are the type that would have never wanted that style of move. Did they "sit Herro" until he "showed it in practice"? Hell no, they played him right away. THAT is what the Magic need to do. Move the deadbeats and see if their young guys can step up. Okeke and WCj have already started showing those signs. I don't get why you're hating to see their progression. ...because they aren't winning? Stunning.

Lebron returned home because they had Kyrie and Love. Without that, he would NEVER have considered it.

NOBODY WAS coming to ORL because Vuc, Fournier and Gordon were NOT an attractive core to join!!! THAT WAS THE PROBLEM! SMH

[ogmagicfan]

I think a veteran PG can be useful on young teams where they haven’t already filled the PG position. If we did look at it, I’d say next offseason would make sense. It depends of if we get Suggs whose a PG forsure or if Fultz develops however.

I’m also not sure which PG we would target in this scenario however. Developing some of our young talent would attract better talent though

[pepe1991]

Chris Paul didn't walk into Suns, Got traded to probably only team that could afford his massive contract.

Jimmy Butler didn't join established core of Adebayo (was backup in a moment) , Robinson( was deep bench , G league guy) or Herro ( wasn't even in nba yet).

KD went to a team that had best regular season record in nba history because it was easiest and safest path toward ringzzzz.

Lebron returned "home" because it was great marketing thing for him to do.


Nobody is comming to Orlando, it's a team that couldn't even keep Ibaka. ffs Gordon asked for trade, guy is Jae Crowder level player.
Only way how they become attractive destination is if they land superstar in draft and trade for another superstar that doesn't care where he plays, somebody like i don't know, Kevin Garnett.

Paul wanted out of OKC so he could try to win. That's all he's ever chased. PHX was his best option. He wanted OUT of OKC badly.

Butler joined an established team culture that Miami had built. He had success there because they drafted guys and developed them correctly. Adebayo was a backup and what did they do? They shipped off Whiteside and he bloomed! You are the type that would have never wanted that style of move. Did they "sit Herro" until he "showed it in practice"? Hell no, they played him right away. THAT is what the Magic need to do. Move the deadbeats and see if their young guys can step up. Okeke and WCj have already started showing those signs. I don't get why you're hating to see their progression. ...because they aren't winning? Stunning.

Lebron returned home because they had Kyrie and Love. Without that, he would NEVER have considered it.

NOBODY WAS coming to ORL because Vuc, Fournier and Gordon were NOT an attractive core to join!!! THAT WAS THE PROBLEM! SMH

As usual, most of things you post are false, manipulating informations of simply making things up. But hey, that's why i wrote "as usual".

Butler joined "established culture" of a team that had :
41-41 record in 2016-17
44-38 record in 2017-18
39-43 record in 2018-19

They shipped off Whiteside and he bloomed! You are the type that would have never wanted that style of move. Did they "sit Herro" until he "showed it in practice"? Hell no, they played him right away.

Like Magic shipped DJ Augustin for Fultz and promoted Isaac in starter? So- double standards and lack of basic logic. Take L no 1.

That was copy past same team and "culture" you hated with passion in Orlando last 2 years. Only thing that changes is your wishy-washy - cherrypicking of facts and claims. Take L on double standards and terrible take. L number 2.

Lebron returned home because they had Kyrie and Love. Without that, he would NEVER have considered it.

Lebron cherrypicked teammates. Every person not mentioned in "letter" was traded in next 2 months. Lebron could have had same team in Alaska if he wanted to. He could have had same team in Minessota, if he wanted to. Lebron is God of nba, thinking otherwise is being very naive.

NOBODY WAS coming to ORL because Vuc, Fournier and Gordon were NOT an attractive core to join!!!

In whole team history Magic never added top 10 player in free agency. Ever. Magic history didn't start with Vuc, Gordon and Evan. So another cherrypicked stupidity, L number 3.

Congratulations. it's not easy to make post and get every single take wrong. You always did, tho.

Back to orginal topic that you contributed with nothing ( as usual). Magic , like any other terrible team, need veteran to set good example for young players if you don't want army of Andrew Wiggins type prospects.
Oladipo in his exit interview with Orlando already said it loud that they had no leadership and innert struggle of players for PT ruind their development. Fools just don't learn anything from past.