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Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2

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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1001 » by basketballRob » Thu Jun 3, 2021 9:07 pm

RookieStar wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:
I am with you on respecting the loyalty Lilliard has FOR PORTLAND. I don’t see that loyalty transferring over in a trade. Instead I see it being a Demar Derozen situation where he becomes extremely bitter and upset about the deal.
It takes a good man to stay for 200m.

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LOL

Well at least he didn't do what some of these divas are doing. Signing the big extension/contract THEN demand to be traded ( Harden *cough cough*)
I remember when were talking about how loyal Dwight was.

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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1002 » by MagicMatic » Thu Jun 3, 2021 9:13 pm

Magic Mops wrote:The Magic pick lands at 3 and Cade and Green are off the board.
Who do you want the Magic to draft?

A) Jalen Suggs

B) Evan Mobley

C) Jonathan Kuminga

D) Moses Moody

E) Scottie Barnes

F) Keon Johnson


As someone that would possibly take Suggs #1, this isn’t a question.

If Orlando ends up at #4 without Suggs, Cade, Green on the board, I’m begrudgingly taking Kuminga and praying he can develop a 3-level offense.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1003 » by RookieStar » Thu Jun 3, 2021 11:03 pm

basketballRob wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
basketballRob wrote:It takes a good man to stay for 200m.

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LOL

Well at least he didn't do what some of these divas are doing. Signing the big extension/contract THEN demand to be traded ( Harden *cough cough*)
I remember when were talking about how loyal Dwight was.

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Then I'll call Dame loyal till the day he demands a trade lol
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1004 » by pepe1991 » Fri Jun 4, 2021 6:23 am

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pepe1991 wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
I mean... it's better? There is still a lot of dumb **** in there. We could start with your failure to normalize your stats. I don't know why you use per game numbers. I mean... I do. I don't know why you think it's valid though. Basically, everything you say would make a hell of a lot more sense if this was a fantasy basketball forum.


Normalazing stats ? You said he is 32% three point shooter to make it bit better than it is. He is career 31,5 who shot 31,5% for Europe level 3 witch is actually long 2 in nba. So from start it's pretty bad.
Than you refuse to acknowledge he can't make free throws at respectful clip that are more often than not serious indicator of invidiual ability to shoot.
Lastly, you ignore what other scouts wrote about him in past.

Mike Schmitz wrote about him during U16 Euro back in 2016

-More of a slightly undersized power forward at this stage. Although he's young, he's very developed for his age. How much more will he grow? -How is he going to score in the half court as the size, length, athleticism and level of play increase? -Really can't shoot at all at this stage. Stiff, funky mechanics with very little touch – 8-for-23 from the free throw line and took only three jumpers all tournament. -Over 75% of his offense came from transition, offensive rebounds, and cuts. Not a guy who's going to go get you a bucket at the end of the clock. -Relies more on his tools around the rim. Can improve his touch versus length. -Ball skills are average in the half court. Limited to strictly straight line drives, although he shows some potential in transition. -Checks quite a few boxes but is missing some important ones (namely shooting). Projects more as a high level role player right now. Is his production mostly a product of his physical gifts and motor in comparison to where most 15-16-year-olds are physically? - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Usman-Garuba-96905/ ©DraftExpress


In 2016 he was 6'7, so in 5 years he didn't grow. In terms of pure size, he is what he is and that's what he will be. There won't be Giannis level growth and he won't show up at your camp being 6'11.
You are drafting high energy, short center that has no business playing PF in modern basketball with very, very limited offensive game that showed basically no development in last 5 years.
In last 5 years he went from not shooting ball at all to shooting very poor percentages all over the board.

He is neither BPA nor he fits Orlando's need.


That's how we do math on planet earth. We round decimals.

Some people move goal posts. You frenetically start throwing up new goal posts everywhere. I never said he was a good shooter. I said it was stupid to use two guys that have attempted 38 combined total 3-point field goal attempts in 20 combined NBA seasons as comps for a guy that hit 35 3-point field goals this year alone.

Great job on pulling up a scouting report for him at age 14 to try to hammer home your point.


Actually factually false. Percentages are rounding on 2 decimales, in some cases to make it for average person easier , on 1. In both cases, nba in particular does NOT round percentages. Even official nba page has 1 decimale.
You did it in sad attemp to showcase him as "almost average" shooter. Where every person can look at his career 41/130 for 3 in 120 games ( 31,5%) and figure for itself we talk about poor shooter .

What goalposts I moved? I compared him to Biyombo & Tristan Thompson due similar size & lenght and you got but**hurt about it. Talking about moving goalposts, you even mentioned his skin collor :crazy:

I said it was stupid to use two guys that have attempted 38 combined total 3-point field goal attempts in 20 combined NBA seasons as comps for a guy that hit 35 3-point field goals this year alone.


Fair, and it would make sesne if you are not the poster that kept crying how dumb Magic were for and i qoute "drafting Barcelona backup who never showed he is plus shooter" and now, 6 years later, you are trying to make a case for Real Mardid backup who shot 11/40 for 3 in Euroleague in addition of 62% FGs ?
Maybe skin color is to you very strong factor of evaluation since you got so but*hurt frist time i compared him to Biyombo?

As far as player comparisons go
ACB League stats, same age:
Player A
17 MPG, 6,4 PPG, 5,1 RPG, 2,3 BPG ---55% FG, 0% for 3 ( 0 -0 ) , 55 % FTs

Player B
18,7 MPG, 5,6 PPG, 5,3 RPG, 0,4 BPG---46% FG, 33,8% for 3 ( 24-71) , 67% FTs

Player C
23,7 MPG, 9,7 PPG, 5,7 RPG, 0,3 BPG---45% FG, 35,8% for 3 ( 34-95), 72% FTs)

Spoiler:
Player A is Biyombo, player B is Garuba player C is Hernagomez



And as far as my draftexpress from 2016 goes, he didn't improve any aspect of his game in 5 years. He is still rim running undersized center who at times plays PF because he is inferior to Trey Thompkins, that nba stud that lasted for 24 games in nba.
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Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1005 » by drsd » Fri Jun 4, 2021 9:23 am

MagicMatic wrote:If Orlando ends up at #4 without Suggs, Cade, Green on the board, I’m begrudgingly taking Kuminga and praying he can develop a 3-level offense.


You might be a lone voice in selecting Kuminga over Mobley.

..
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1006 » by RookieStar » Fri Jun 4, 2021 10:42 am

drsd wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:If Orlando ends up at #4 without Suggs, Cade, Green on the board, I’m begrudgingly taking Kuminga and praying he can develop a 3-level offense.


You might be a lone voice in selecting Kuminga over Mobley.

..


No I think theres aomeone else advocating for.Kuminga.. I forgot who. But any case, its interesting to hear their reasoning on their decision.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1007 » by MagicMatic » Fri Jun 4, 2021 1:41 pm

drsd wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:If Orlando ends up at #4 without Suggs, Cade, Green on the board, I’m begrudgingly taking Kuminga and praying he can develop a 3-level offense.


You might be a lone voice in selecting Kuminga over Mobley.

..


Yeah, I have a bias against taking bigs to a team without an identifiable go-to player. Not really a fan of spending top 5 picks on higher % busts, injured guys, and low valued positions that can be acquired elsewhere.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1008 » by zaymon » Fri Jun 4, 2021 3:25 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
drsd wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:If Orlando ends up at #4 without Suggs, Cade, Green on the board, I’m begrudgingly taking Kuminga and praying he can develop a 3-level offense.


You might be a lone voice in selecting Kuminga over Mobley.

..


Yeah, I have a bias against taking bigs to a team without an identifiable go-to player. Not really a fan of spending top 5 picks on higher % busts, injured guys, and low valued positions that can be acquired elsewhere.


I would argue Kuminga has much higher bust potential than Mobley. Mobley at least is good at basketball. Thats a good sign for future basketball player. Only reason why Kuminga had the ball in his hands is his athletic ability and size.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1009 » by drsd » Fri Jun 4, 2021 3:27 pm

zaymon wrote:I would argue Kuminga has much higher bust potential than Mobley.


Orlando traded Aaron Gordon. We don't need the 2/0 version.


..
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1010 » by zaymon » Fri Jun 4, 2021 3:45 pm

drsd wrote:
zaymon wrote:I would argue Kuminga has much higher bust potential than Mobley.


Orlando traded Aaron Gordon. We don't need the 2/0 version.


..


I dont even know if Kuminga is better prospect than AG. For all his flaws Gordon was 6'8 nimble defender and could shoot a little. Kuminga cant shoot and is bad defender
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1011 » by OrlChamps2030 » Fri Jun 4, 2021 4:24 pm

zaymon wrote:
drsd wrote:
zaymon wrote:I would argue Kuminga has much higher bust potential than Mobley.


Orlando traded Aaron Gordon. We don't need the 2/0 version.


..


I dont even know if Kuminga is better prospect than AG. For all his flaws Gordon was 6'8 nimble defender and could shoot a little. Kuminga cant shoot and is bad defender


That’s just not true.. AG couldn’t shoot for **** when he came out.. the dude shot like 40% on free throws in college IIRC
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1012 » by drsd » Fri Jun 4, 2021 4:58 pm

OrlChamps2030 wrote:
zaymon wrote:
drsd wrote:
Orlando traded Aaron Gordon. We don't need the 2/0 version.


..


I dont even know if Kuminga is better prospect than AG. For all his flaws Gordon was 6'8 nimble defender and could shoot a little. Kuminga cant shoot and is bad defender


That’s just not true.. AG couldn’t shoot for **** when he came out.. the dude shot like 40% on free throws in college IIRC


TO me the argument is that both Gordon and Kuminga come out of college without fundamental basketball skills. This is not a race-to-the-bottom to say which one is "worse".

Man oh man do I hope that Orlando stays in the top4. I would probably hope for Orlando to drop to 6 otherwise so that Kuminga would not be an available draft choice (i.e. so that Orlando can select Moody without that being a selection over Kuminga).

..
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1013 » by drsd » Fri Jun 4, 2021 5:00 pm

Only 1332 hours left to the draft !
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1014 » by zaymon » Fri Jun 4, 2021 5:01 pm

OrlChamps2030 wrote:
zaymon wrote:
drsd wrote:
Orlando traded Aaron Gordon. We don't need the 2/0 version.


..


I dont even know if Kuminga is better prospect than AG. For all his flaws Gordon was 6'8 nimble defender and could shoot a little. Kuminga cant shoot and is bad defender


That’s just not true.. AG couldn’t shoot for **** when he came out.. the dude shot like 40% on free throws in college IIRC


He had some easy to fix mechanical issue, look at his rookie year its 72%. His 3 point shooting was 35% in college
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1015 » by Xatticus » Fri Jun 4, 2021 5:44 pm

drsd wrote:
zaymon wrote:I would argue Kuminga has much higher bust potential than Mobley.


Orlando traded Aaron Gordon. We don't need the 2/0 version.


..


Wasn't Gordon an obviously better prospect than is Kuminga? The only thing Kuminga is better at is FT%.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1016 » by Xatticus » Fri Jun 4, 2021 5:48 pm

drsd wrote:
OrlChamps2030 wrote:
zaymon wrote:
I dont even know if Kuminga is better prospect than AG. For all his flaws Gordon was 6'8 nimble defender and could shoot a little. Kuminga cant shoot and is bad defender


That’s just not true.. AG couldn’t shoot for **** when he came out.. the dude shot like 40% on free throws in college IIRC


TO me the argument is that both Gordon and Kuminga come out of college without fundamental basketball skills. This is not a race-to-the-bottom to say which one is "worse".

Man oh man do I hope that Orlando stays in the top4. I would probably hope for Orlando to drop to 6 otherwise so that Kuminga would not be an available draft choice (i.e. so that Orlando can select Moody without that being a selection over Kuminga).

..


Gordon was a really nice prospect. The FT% was his only real wart.

That said, I'm in agreement that I'd actually rather see us fall out of the top 5 than to land 5th if Kuminga really is the consensus 5th pick. I don't want for us to select him. If we end up with Kuminga, I'd feel the similarly about our future as I do about Cleveland's future with a core of Sexton, Garland, and Okoro, which is not good.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1017 » by zaymon » Fri Jun 4, 2021 6:20 pm

Xatticus wrote:
drsd wrote:
OrlChamps2030 wrote:
That’s just not true.. AG couldn’t shoot for **** when he came out.. the dude shot like 40% on free throws in college IIRC


TO me the argument is that both Gordon and Kuminga come out of college without fundamental basketball skills. This is not a race-to-the-bottom to say which one is "worse".

Man oh man do I hope that Orlando stays in the top4. I would probably hope for Orlando to drop to 6 otherwise so that Kuminga would not be an available draft choice (i.e. so that Orlando can select Moody without that being a selection over Kuminga).

..


Gordon was a really nice prospect. The FT% was his only real wart.

That said, I'm in agreement that I'd actually rather see us fall out of the top 5 than to land 5th if Kuminga really is the consensus 5th pick. I don't want for us to select him. If we end up with Kuminga, I'd feel the similarly about our future as I do about Cleveland's future with a core of Sexton, Garland, and Okoro, which is not good.


I think we wont draft Kuminga even if we have #5 pick. Our front office saw value in AG but their every move was showing they want to trade him. Look at forwards they aquired. Isaac, Okeke, Aminu, (Porter ?). All had shooting potential, all were versatile defenders. I cant see it in Kuminga outside some incredible development. I see more potential in Barnes and Giddey. I hope we pick top 4 though.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1018 » by tiderulz » Fri Jun 4, 2021 6:36 pm

Xatticus wrote:
drsd wrote:
OrlChamps2030 wrote:
That’s just not true.. AG couldn’t shoot for **** when he came out.. the dude shot like 40% on free throws in college IIRC


TO me the argument is that both Gordon and Kuminga come out of college without fundamental basketball skills. This is not a race-to-the-bottom to say which one is "worse".

Man oh man do I hope that Orlando stays in the top4. I would probably hope for Orlando to drop to 6 otherwise so that Kuminga would not be an available draft choice (i.e. so that Orlando can select Moody without that being a selection over Kuminga).

..


Gordon was a really nice prospect. The FT% was his only real wart.

That said, I'm in agreement that I'd actually rather see us fall out of the top 5 than to land 5th if Kuminga really is the consensus 5th pick. I don't want for us to select him. If we end up with Kuminga, I'd feel the similarly about our future as I do about Cleveland's future with a core of Sexton, Garland, and Okoro, which is not good.

I wouldnt say that was his only wart. he had practically zero offensive skills coming out of Arizona. he relied completely on athleticism. no inside game, bad shooter, no 3 pt range. he was ranked and drafted purely on potential.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1019 » by OrlChamps2030 » Fri Jun 4, 2021 6:54 pm

zaymon wrote:
OrlChamps2030 wrote:
zaymon wrote:
I dont even know if Kuminga is better prospect than AG. For all his flaws Gordon was 6'8 nimble defender and could shoot a little. Kuminga cant shoot and is bad defender


That’s just not true.. AG couldn’t shoot for **** when he came out.. the dude shot like 40% on free throws in college IIRC


He had some easy to fix mechanical issue, look at his rookie year its 72%. His 3 point shooting was 35% in college


...on 1.2 attempts a game behind the college 3 point line.

Kuminga shoots 25% on 5 NBA 3P/A a game. Rookie Aaron Gordon shot 27% on 1 NBA 3P/A a game.

18 year old Kuminga shot 63% on FTs.. 18 year old Gordon shot 42% on FTs

Im not even saying Kuminga’s shooting is good (its not).. but it’s just wrong to say Gordon was a better shooter, or that he could shoot a little. That just never happened lol
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1020 » by MagicMatic » Fri Jun 4, 2021 7:04 pm

zaymon wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
drsd wrote:
You might be a lone voice in selecting Kuminga over Mobley.

..


Yeah, I have a bias against taking bigs to a team without an identifiable go-to player. Not really a fan of spending top 5 picks on higher % busts, injured guys, and low valued positions that can be acquired elsewhere.


I would argue Kuminga has much higher bust potential than Mobley. Mobley at least is good at basketball. Thats a good sign for future basketball player. Only reason why Kuminga had the ball in his hands is his athletic ability and size.


I get the rationalization.

I’d still take Kuminga with the hope he can be Kawhi in the absolute ideal scenario.

Rather than taking Mobley with the hope he’s Anthony “always down” Davis in his absolute ideal scenario.

I’m not saying either ARE that close as prospects but you get the point for sake of argument.

At the end of the day they are “fitting” the rest of the roster to this pick if it’s not completely botched. I’m still going with Kuminga in that scenario and I’m not even that much of a proponent.

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