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Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2

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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1021 » by zaymon » Fri Jun 4, 2021 7:27 pm

OrlChamps2030 wrote:
zaymon wrote:
OrlChamps2030 wrote:
That’s just not true.. AG couldn’t shoot for **** when he came out.. the dude shot like 40% on free throws in college IIRC


He had some easy to fix mechanical issue, look at his rookie year its 72%. His 3 point shooting was 35% in college


...on 1.2 attempts a game behind the college 3 point line.

Kuminga shoots 25% on 5 NBA 3P/A a game. Rookie Aaron Gordon shot 27% on 1 NBA 3P/A a game.

18 year old Kuminga shot 63% on FTs.. 18 year old Gordon shot 42% on FTs

Im not even saying Kuminga’s shooting is good (its not).. but it’s just wrong to say Gordon was a better shooter, or that he could shoot a little. That just never happened lol


Ok so they both couldnt shoot and AG was better defender. In the end AG can impact the game in more ways than Kuminga can and propably will. Of course Kuminga can get better than AG but lets not forget AG was propably better prospect coming into nba.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1022 » by Xatticus » Fri Jun 4, 2021 7:31 pm

tiderulz wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
drsd wrote:
TO me the argument is that both Gordon and Kuminga come out of college without fundamental basketball skills. This is not a race-to-the-bottom to say which one is "worse".

Man oh man do I hope that Orlando stays in the top4. I would probably hope for Orlando to drop to 6 otherwise so that Kuminga would not be an available draft choice (i.e. so that Orlando can select Moody without that being a selection over Kuminga).

..


Gordon was a really nice prospect. The FT% was his only real wart.

That said, I'm in agreement that I'd actually rather see us fall out of the top 5 than to land 5th if Kuminga really is the consensus 5th pick. I don't want for us to select him. If we end up with Kuminga, I'd feel the similarly about our future as I do about Cleveland's future with a core of Sexton, Garland, and Okoro, which is not good.

I wouldnt say that was his only wart. he had practically zero offensive skills coming out of Arizona. he relied completely on athleticism. no inside game, bad shooter, no 3 pt range. he was ranked and drafted purely on potential.


Well... shooting in general, yeah. He was really good at finishing around the basket and he got a lot of attempts at the rim. His assist rate was encouraging and his turnover rate was low. Those are really positive indicators for such a young prospect. If you contrast that with what Kuminga did in the G League, it's really difficult to be optimistic about his future.

There are a number of athletes in this draft that just aren't very good at basketball yet are mocked really high. I'd like to avoid any and all of them. There is a point at which they are good value, but lottery picks are so valuable that I'm loathe to just throwing them away on someone that you are hoping will eventually learn to play basketball. Kuminga, Keon Johnson, and Kai Jones all fit into this category. Jones has some of the worst indicators you will ever see from a projected lottery pick.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1023 » by RookieStar » Fri Jun 4, 2021 8:29 pm

Alright, to those who wanted Kuminga, can you tell me if his regular jumping motion is with 2 feet or 1? People give crap to AG and Cole because they are 2 feet jumpers and not 1 and it limits their ability or something despite their athleticism.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1024 » by tiderulz » Fri Jun 4, 2021 9:36 pm

Xatticus wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
Gordon was a really nice prospect. The FT% was his only real wart.

That said, I'm in agreement that I'd actually rather see us fall out of the top 5 than to land 5th if Kuminga really is the consensus 5th pick. I don't want for us to select him. If we end up with Kuminga, I'd feel the similarly about our future as I do about Cleveland's future with a core of Sexton, Garland, and Okoro, which is not good.

I wouldnt say that was his only wart. he had practically zero offensive skills coming out of Arizona. he relied completely on athleticism. no inside game, bad shooter, no 3 pt range. he was ranked and drafted purely on potential.


Well... shooting in general, yeah. He was really good at finishing around the basket and he got a lot of attempts at the rim. His assist rate was encouraging and his turnover rate was low. Those are really positive indicators for such a young prospect. If you contrast that with what Kuminga did in the G League, it's really difficult to be optimistic about his future.

There are a number of athletes in this draft that just aren't very good at basketball yet are mocked really high. I'd like to avoid any and all of them. There is a point at which they are good value, but lottery picks are so valuable that I'm loathe to just throwing them away on someone that you are hoping will eventually learn to play basketball. Kuminga, Keon Johnson, and Kai Jones all fit into this category. Jones has some of the worst indicators you will ever see from a projected lottery pick.

dont get me wrong, im not pushing Kuminga.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1025 » by pepe1991 » Sat Jun 5, 2021 5:52 am

My case against Kuminga is fact that he will need time to learn how to play basketball and how to shoot, if he ever even gets there. On team as talent depleated and onedimensional ,with poor spacing like Orlando is, will team or him lose any confidence in his development in year 3 and just vawe white flag like Hawks did to Cam Reddish , Wolves to Culver or Knicks to Knox & Ntikilina?

We can pretend that current roster "doesn't matter" but for next at least 3 years of whoever we draft rookie seasons, he will play with combination of Hampton, Cole, Fultz, Carter, Bamba, Fultz, Isaac. It's not like we will trade whole team in 2023. It's simply reality.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1026 » by jezzerinho » Sat Jun 5, 2021 8:52 am

pepe1991 wrote:My case against Kuminga is fact that he will need time to learn how to play basketball and how to shoot, if he ever even gets there. On team as talent depleated and onedimensional ,with poor spacing like Orlando is, will team or him lose any confidence in his development in year 3 and just vawe white flag like Hawks did to Cam Reddish , Wolves to Culver or Knicks to Knox & Ntikilina?

We can pretend that current roster "doesn't matter" but for next at least 3 years of whoever we draft rookie seasons, he will play with combination of Hampton, Cole, Fultz, Carter, Bamba, Fultz, Isaac. It's not like we will trade whole team in 2023. It's simply reality.


Good point. And if there's a FO change, which is very possible, high salary projects who don't produce from a previous GM regime will be first out the door.

Still, all players have their risk elements. Not developing or not doing it fast enough is his.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1027 » by slamjunkie » Sat Jun 5, 2021 12:05 pm

pepe1991 wrote:My case against Kuminga is fact that he will need time to learn how to play basketball and how to shoot, if he ever even gets there. On team as talent depleated and onedimensional ,with poor spacing like Orlando is, will team or him lose any confidence in his development in year 3 and just vawe white flag like Hawks did to Cam Reddish , Wolves to Culver or Knicks to Knox & Ntikilina?

We can pretend that current roster "doesn't matter" but for next at least 3 years of whoever we draft rookie seasons, he will play with combination of Hampton, Cole, Fultz, Carter, Bamba, Fultz, Isaac. It's not like we will trade whole team in 2023. It's simply reality.


You should work on your sentence structure. I can’t get your point…
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1028 » by TDJacksonville » Sat Jun 5, 2021 5:10 pm

Magic Mops wrote:The Magic pick lands at 3 and Cade and Green are off the board.
Who do you want the Magic to draft?

A) Jalen Suggs

B) Evan Mobley

C) Jonathan Kuminga

D) Moses Moody

E) Scottie Barnes

F) Keon Johnson
Mobley then suggs.

Mobley shores the center spot cuz neither Carter or Bamba are star guys.
Suggs is cuz he's a good player but do we really need to take another guy who needs the ball to pair with fultz
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1029 » by tiderulz » Sat Jun 5, 2021 9:12 pm

TDJacksonville wrote:
Magic Mops wrote:The Magic pick lands at 3 and Cade and Green are off the board.
Who do you want the Magic to draft?

A) Jalen Suggs

B) Evan Mobley

C) Jonathan Kuminga

D) Moses Moody

E) Scottie Barnes

F) Keon Johnson
Mobley then suggs.

Mobley shores the center spot cuz neither Carter or Bamba are star guys.
Suggs is cuz he's a good player but do we really need to take another guy who needs the ball to pair with fultz

Suggs to me over Mobley. teams can win without a star at center. they arent winning without a star at guard/wing. and im not sure Fultz stays, he still needs to learn to shoot. and if he does stay, you can never have enough playmakers. Look at Dallas, they fade in 4th quarter because Luka has to do everything
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1030 » by Skin » Sun Jun 6, 2021 7:20 am

tiderulz wrote:
TDJacksonville wrote:
Magic Mops wrote:The Magic pick lands at 3 and Cade and Green are off the board.
Who do you want the Magic to draft?

A) Jalen Suggs

B) Evan Mobley

C) Jonathan Kuminga

D) Moses Moody

E) Scottie Barnes

F) Keon Johnson
Mobley then suggs.

Mobley shores the center spot cuz neither Carter or Bamba are star guys.
Suggs is cuz he's a good player but do we really need to take another guy who needs the ball to pair with fultz

Suggs to me over Mobley. teams can win without a star at center. they arent winning without a star at guard/wing. and im not sure Fultz stays, he still needs to learn to shoot. and if he does stay, you can never have enough playmakers. Look at Dallas, they fade in 4th quarter because Luka has to do everything

Suggs over Mobley. Mobley is 2 years away from being 2 years away. Tide nailed it. Teams don't need Centers. Carter/Bamba is perfectly fine. They are the perfect duo actually. They both offer a little bit different skillsets and the way their time gets balanced out will result in their next contracts being less than they could get if they got 40 mpg.

If Mobley stays skinny and wants to play the 3, then maybe we can have a conversation.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1031 » by KillMonger » Sun Jun 6, 2021 9:25 am

Magic Mops wrote:The Magic pick lands at 3 and Cade and Green are off the board.
Who do you want the Magic to draft?

A) Jalen Suggs

B) Evan Mobley

C) Jonathan Kuminga

D) Moses Moody

E) Scottie Barnes

F) Keon Johnson

for me? kuminga....although i feel this is a very specific scenario as i see Cade/Mobley as 1A/1B in this draft but i guess that depends on who gets what pick
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1032 » by Magic Mops » Sun Jun 6, 2021 12:38 pm

Skin wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
TDJacksonville wrote: Mobley then suggs.

Mobley shores the center spot cuz neither Carter or Bamba are star guys.
Suggs is cuz he's a good player but do we really need to take another guy who needs the ball to pair with fultz

Suggs to me over Mobley. teams can win without a star at center. they arent winning without a star at guard/wing. and im not sure Fultz stays, he still needs to learn to shoot. and if he does stay, you can never have enough playmakers. Look at Dallas, they fade in 4th quarter because Luka has to do everything

Suggs over Mobley. Mobley is 2 years away from being 2 years away. Tide nailed it. Teams don't need Centers. Carter/Bamba is perfectly fine. They are the perfect duo actually. They both offer a little bit different skillsets and the way their time gets balanced out will result in their next contracts being less than they could get if they got 40 mpg.

If Mobley stays skinny and wants to play the 3, then maybe we can have a conversation.

It would be very interesting if Mobley wants to play the 3.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1033 » by basketballRob » Sun Jun 6, 2021 1:13 pm

Skin wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
TDJacksonville wrote: Mobley then suggs.

Mobley shores the center spot cuz neither Carter or Bamba are star guys.
Suggs is cuz he's a good player but do we really need to take another guy who needs the ball to pair with fultz

Suggs to me over Mobley. teams can win without a star at center. they arent winning without a star at guard/wing. and im not sure Fultz stays, he still needs to learn to shoot. and if he does stay, you can never have enough playmakers. Look at Dallas, they fade in 4th quarter because Luka has to do everything

Suggs over Mobley. Mobley is 2 years away from being 2 years away. Tide nailed it. Teams don't need Centers. Carter/Bamba is perfectly fine. They are the perfect duo actually. They both offer a little bit different skillsets and the way their time gets balanced out will result in their next contracts being less than they could get if they got 40 mpg.

If Mobley stays skinny and wants to play the 3, then maybe we can have a conversation.
He plays power forward.

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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1034 » by Anti Chalmers » Sun Jun 6, 2021 2:55 pm

Let’s say we have the number 3 pick, what would you guys think would be enough to trade up for the 1st pick? 3rd pick and two future first?
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1035 » by tiderulz » Sun Jun 6, 2021 4:04 pm

Anti Chalmers wrote:Let’s say we have the number 3 pick, what would you guys think would be enough to trade up for the 1st pick? 3rd pick and two future first?

well, you can look at the Boston trade.

i think Philly ended up just giving 1 future 1st.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1036 » by TDJacksonville » Sun Jun 6, 2021 4:45 pm

Skin wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
TDJacksonville wrote: Mobley then suggs.

Mobley shores the center spot cuz neither Carter or Bamba are star guys.
Suggs is cuz he's a good player but do we really need to take another guy who needs the ball to pair with fultz

Suggs to me over Mobley. teams can win without a star at center. they arent winning without a star at guard/wing. and im not sure Fultz stays, he still needs to learn to shoot. and if he does stay, you can never have enough playmakers. Look at Dallas, they fade in 4th quarter because Luka has to do everything

Suggs over Mobley. Mobley is 2 years away from being 2 years away. Tide nailed it. Teams don't need Centers. Carter/Bamba is perfectly fine. They are the perfect duo actually. They both offer a little bit different skillsets and the way their time gets balanced out will result in their next contracts being less than they could get if they got 40 mpg.

If Mobley stays skinny and wants to play the 3, then maybe we can have a conversation.
we are 2 years from being 2 years away. Host of holes with 0 guys that have super star potential. Suggs to me is good but this guard class feels deeper then pf/c.

Mobley is easily better then Issac offensively and at this point seems more durable.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1037 » by Xatticus » Sun Jun 6, 2021 5:22 pm

Anti Chalmers wrote:Let’s say we have the number 3 pick, what would you guys think would be enough to trade up for the 1st pick? 3rd pick and two future first?


It's moot if Cunningham is the guy for whoever lands first. They aren't trading out of that slot unless they have someone other than Cunningham at the top of the board and can be sure that they will get whoever it is at the top of their board at whatever slot they trade down to.

The precedent is an unprotected future first-round pick, but that means nothing if they haven't already made the decision not to draft Cunningham.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1038 » by RookieStar » Sun Jun 6, 2021 9:57 pm

First off - A team drafting Cade would not trade him away. He fits like a glove to all those tanking teams gunning for the #1 pick.

Second - Mobley a SF? Even if he becomes as skinny as Poku no way does he have the mobility to play SF. Well ok maybe in the 90s era basketball.

Third - you guys want bigs? Really? Well fine if you do, then tank the season away because the available BIG men in the next draft is waaaay better than Mobley and Kuminga. Banchero, Chet and etc.. 6'10-7ft bigs. Some are bruisers some are KD like but with advanced offensive abilities.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1039 » by Nyce_1 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 1:12 am

What happens if Cade and his agent duck teams and hold medical info to Hopefully drop 1 or 2 spots. Would it be effective?
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1040 » by RookieStar » Mon Jun 7, 2021 1:15 am

Nyce_1 wrote:What happens if Cade and his agent duck teams and hold medical info to Hopefully drop 1 or 2 spots. Would it be effective?


You mean likr what Bamba did to us but we ended up drafting him anyway?

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