ImageImageImageImage

Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2

Moderators: Knightro, SOUL, Def Swami, Howard Mass, UCFJayBird, UCF, ChosenSavior

Magic Mops
Freshman
Posts: 98
And1: 29
Joined: May 24, 2021
     

Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1061 » by Magic Mops » Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:09 pm

drsd wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Bro, that's u 17, Ocenia championship. Against Guam, New Zeland and Tahiti.
Guam has population of 160 000 people :lol: It's miracle they fan find 10 kids under age of 17 standing taller than 5'0

Suggs played u 19 world cup. Completley different level of talent due age AND talent perspective.
Hell, Suggs played World cup where his teammate was non other than Halliburton himself.


Giddey has great physical measurements for the PG position; almost to Magic Johnson levels. And he has been playing basketball since he was a tadpole (actually as his mother is a former basketball player, so, since he was a zygote).

For me the point is that i) the PG position is the hardest to play in basketball and thus all NBA rookies PG suck - universally, and then add, ii) Giddey will take noticeably longer than the average entry to the NBA to potentially excel, given his competition limitation, including the ones you make above.

I would think that Giddey would first be a competent starting PG in year 4: that is the 2024/25 season. And that's an if as all new players have a potential to flame out (or get injured).

Sum that up: where is he on the risk/reward wheel to determine a draft slot? Many would have him in the 10-15 range, and others in the 12-25 range. As he is far from a need, I would take a pass on him as there are equal upside players in his range that are more of a positional fit for Orlando: Wagner for example.
..

I completely agree with you on Giddey.

I am in this forum for a few weeks and i must say this Pepe is really exhausting.
Hard to believe he is a Magic Fan.
pepe1991
RealGM
Posts: 14,338
And1: 11,743
Joined: Jan 10, 2016
   

Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1062 » by pepe1991 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:43 pm

Magic Mops wrote:
drsd wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Bro, that's u 17, Ocenia championship. Against Guam, New Zeland and Tahiti.
Guam has population of 160 000 people :lol: It's miracle they fan find 10 kids under age of 17 standing taller than 5'0

Suggs played u 19 world cup. Completley different level of talent due age AND talent perspective.
Hell, Suggs played World cup where his teammate was non other than Halliburton himself.


Giddey has great physical measurements for the PG position; almost to Magic Johnson levels. And he has been playing basketball since he was a tadpole (actually as his mother is a former basketball player, so, since he was a zygote).

For me the point is that i) the PG position is the hardest to play in basketball and thus all NBA rookies PG suck - universally, and then add, ii) Giddey will take noticeably longer than the average entry to the NBA to potentially excel, given his competition limitation, including the ones you make above.

I would think that Giddey would first be a competent starting PG in year 4: that is the 2024/25 season. And that's an if as all new players have a potential to flame out (or get injured).

Sum that up: where is he on the risk/reward wheel to determine a draft slot? Many would have him in the 10-15 range, and others in the 12-25 range. As he is far from a need, I would take a pass on him as there are equal upside players in his range that are more of a positional fit for Orlando: Wagner for example.
..

I completely agree with you on Giddey.

I am in this forum for a few weeks and i must say this Pepe is really exhausting.
Hard to believe he is a Magic Fan.


I wrote it to put things in perspective. Level of competition where stats are pulled :
a) isn't even same age group that Suggs played
b) isn't even same competition in general

It's ocenia tournament where he plays for only "serious" country when it comes to basketball and where you have bunch of islands with population of people smaller than street hood of Nebraska.

In general those u 17 tournaments really don't maen much. I mean Hezonja was MVP and averaged 20,4 ppg in U17 world cup, best tournament 5 were: Hezonja, Jah Okafor, Exum, Winslow and Gabriel Deck. 9 years later and not a single one of them is having serious nba career.


As for Giddey, i don't see it. All i see is no-defense Lonzo Ball/ worst shooting Joe Ingles at apsolute best. Pretty bad shooter right now, i highly doubt he will ever be lead point guard in nba in general and i struggle who he will be able to guard. You have to see how terrible his mid range game is to figure how bad shooter he actually is. Guy was hitting 30 cm over a rim from mid range in some shots. Those 3s don't even look as bad as some of mid range bricks he shot.
Much like Lonzo, very awkward shooting motion, needs ages to adjust ball before shooting, elbow flares too much.


As far as me irritating you. Good. That means i'm not over a top fanboy that will fall head over heels over every bum my favorite team signs, just because he now plays for my favorite team. Much like it was cases when i was dead wrong ( Trae ) or dead right ( Jarret Culver) i will have opinion about player before he gets here, if he gets here. And go from there.
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
User avatar
tiderulz
RealGM
Posts: 31,069
And1: 11,537
Joined: Jun 16, 2010
Location: Atlanta
 

Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1063 » by tiderulz » Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:02 pm

drsd wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Bro, that's u 17, Ocenia championship. Against Guam, New Zeland and Tahiti.
Guam has population of 160 000 people :lol: It's miracle they fan find 10 kids under age of 17 standing taller than 5'0

Suggs played u 19 world cup. Completley different level of talent due age AND talent perspective.
Hell, Suggs played World cup where his teammate was non other than Halliburton himself.


Giddey has great physical measurements for the PG position; almost to Magic Johnson levels. And he has been playing basketball since he was a tadpole (actually as his mother is a former basketball player, so, since he was a zygote).

For me the point is that i) the PG position is the hardest to play in basketball and thus all NBA rookies PG suck - universally, and then add, ii) Giddey will take noticeably longer than the average entry to the NBA to potentially excel, given his competition limitation, including the ones you make above.

I would think that Giddey would first be a competent starting PG in year 4: that is the 2024/25 season. And that's an if as all new players have a potential to flame out (or get injured).

Sum that up: where is he on the risk/reward wheel to determine a draft slot? Many would have him in the 10-15 range, and others in the 12-25 range. As he is far from a need, I would take a pass on him as there are equal upside players in his range that are more of a positional fit for Orlando: Wagner for example.
..

ehh, that isnt a universal truth. There are many rookie PG's that didnt suck and looked good to really good. not saying he will or wont be a good PG (though i have questions about his athleticism and capability to to against more athletic PG's)
Bensational
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 24,295
And1: 9,943
Joined: Apr 10, 2001
     

Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1064 » by Bensational » Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:31 pm

I can’t tell which nickname I like best:

Giddey Giddey Bang Bang

Gig-Giddey Gig-Giddey

Yep, I’m already thinking about nicknames because his game is an obvious plus, and hopefully for the Magic.
basketballRob
RealGM
Posts: 13,684
And1: 5,576
Joined: May 05, 2014
     

Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1065 » by basketballRob » Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:59 pm

Bensational wrote:I can’t tell which nickname I like best:

Giddey Giddey Bang Bang

Gig-Giddey Gig-Giddey

Yep, I’m already thinking about nicknames because his game is an obvious plus, and hopefully for the Magic.
Giddey up

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
sChOlaRlY_Magi
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,507
And1: 278
Joined: Nov 30, 2007
Location: Palanthus
     

Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1066 » by sChOlaRlY_Magi » Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:42 pm

Bensational wrote:I can’t tell which nickname I like best:

Giddey Giddey Bang Bang

Gig-Giddey Gig-Giddey

Yep, I’m already thinking about nicknames because his game is an obvious plus, and hopefully for the Magic.

LOL

This is the type of stuff I miss most on this forum!
Anyone remember who it was that came up with the multi team deals so Kevin Love and Rudy Gay could play in SF? Just so he could say there is GAY LOVE in the Golden state!
User avatar
RookieStar
RealGM
Posts: 11,637
And1: 2,572
Joined: Jul 01, 2009
 

Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1067 » by RookieStar » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:26 pm

sChOlaRlY_Magi wrote:
Bensational wrote:I can’t tell which nickname I like best:

Giddey Giddey Bang Bang

Gig-Giddey Gig-Giddey

Yep, I’m already thinking about nicknames because his game is an obvious plus, and hopefully for the Magic.

LOL

This is the type of stuff I miss most on this forum!
Anyone remember who it was that came up with the multi team deals so Kevin Love and Rudy Gay could play in SF? Just so he could say there is GAY LOVE in the Golden state!


Yeah but you forgot a name. It was supposed to be COUSINS GAY LOVE !!! Some real sweet home Alabama type.
User avatar
msmoore66
Senior
Posts: 577
And1: 39
Joined: Jul 21, 2010
Location: New Zealand
   

Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1068 » by msmoore66 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:44 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
Magic Mops wrote:
drsd wrote:
Giddey has great physical measurements for the PG position; almost to Magic Johnson levels. And he has been playing basketball since he was a tadpole (actually as his mother is a former basketball player, so, since he was a zygote).

For me the point is that i) the PG position is the hardest to play in basketball and thus all NBA rookies PG suck - universally, and then add, ii) Giddey will take noticeably longer than the average entry to the NBA to potentially excel, given his competition limitation, including the ones you make above.

I would think that Giddey would first be a competent starting PG in year 4: that is the 2024/25 season. And that's an if as all new players have a potential to flame out (or get injured).

Sum that up: where is he on the risk/reward wheel to determine a draft slot? Many would have him in the 10-15 range, and others in the 12-25 range. As he is far from a need, I would take a pass on him as there are equal upside players in his range that are more of a positional fit for Orlando: Wagner for example.
..

I completely agree with you on Giddey.

I am in this forum for a few weeks and i must say this Pepe is really exhausting.
Hard to believe he is a Magic Fan.


I wrote it to put things in perspective. Level of competition where stats are pulled :
a) isn't even same age group that Suggs played
b) isn't even same competition in general

It's ocenia tournament where he plays for only "serious" country when it comes to basketball and where you have bunch of islands with population of people smaller than street hood of Nebraska.

In general those u 17 tournaments really don't maen much. I mean Hezonja was MVP and averaged 20,4 ppg in U17 world cup, best tournament 5 were: Hezonja, Jah Okafor, Exum, Winslow and Gabriel Deck. 9 years later and not a single one of them is having serious nba career.


As for Giddey, i don't see it. All i see is no-defense Lonzo Ball/ worst shooting Joe Ingles at apsolute best. Pretty bad shooter right now, i highly doubt he will ever be lead point guard in nba in general and i struggle who he will be able to guard. You have to see how terrible his mid range game is to figure how bad shooter he actually is. Guy was hitting 30 cm over a rim from mid range in some shots. Those 3s don't even look as bad as some of mid range bricks he shot.
Much like Lonzo, very awkward shooting motion, needs ages to adjust ball before shooting, elbow flares too much.


As far as me irritating you. Good. That means i'm not over a top fanboy that will fall head over heels over every bum my favorite team signs, just because he now plays for my favorite team. Much like it was cases when i was dead wrong ( Trae ) or dead right ( Jarret Culver) i will have opinion about player before he gets here, if he gets here. And go from there.


And 1'd for most of your post, but take issue with the bolded part. Doing us an injustice there ;)
basketballRob
RealGM
Posts: 13,684
And1: 5,576
Joined: May 05, 2014
     

Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1069 » by basketballRob » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:14 pm

Lamelo Ball put up better numbers in the NBA than he put up in the NBL. I think the stats translate pretty well.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app
basketballRob
RealGM
Posts: 13,684
And1: 5,576
Joined: May 05, 2014
     

Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1070 » by basketballRob » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:40 am

Giddey is younger and better than Kuminga.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
RookieStar
RealGM
Posts: 11,637
And1: 2,572
Joined: Jul 01, 2009
 

Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1071 » by RookieStar » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:03 am

basketballRob wrote:Giddey is younger and better than Kuminga.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app


Thats ummm a surprising hot take.
Bensational
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 24,295
And1: 9,943
Joined: Apr 10, 2001
     

Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1072 » by Bensational » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:09 am

pepe1991 wrote:As for Giddey, i don't see it. All i see is no-defense Lonzo Ball/ worst shooting Joe Ingles at apsolute best. Pretty bad shooter right now, i highly doubt he will ever be lead point guard in nba in general and i struggle who he will be able to guard. You have to see how terrible his mid range game is to figure how bad shooter he actually is. Guy was hitting 30 cm over a rim from mid range in some shots. Those 3s don't even look as bad as some of mid range bricks he shot.
Much like Lonzo, very awkward shooting motion, needs ages to adjust ball before shooting, elbow flares too much.


Considering the high skill level and IQ Giddey is showing at his age, I think a team can have faith he’s the kind of player who actually will be able to significantly improve his shooting. Lonzo went from a 31% 3pt shooter in his rookie year to now having back to back seasons on 38% shooting in years 3 and 4. His FT% went from 46% to 79% over that time. LaMelo also went from terrible shooting numbers in the NBL to a 35% 3pt shooter and likely ROTY.

Improving Giddey’s range of scoring options is definitely his next big step for increasing his scope. I don’t think he will be a Simmons/Fultz type who becomes too scared to try taking 3’s though. I’d like to see him add a floater, too, because it will be pretty unstoppable with his height if he’s being defended by PGs.

Defensively, coaches will just need to move his assignment around to players he matches up better with, but at 6’8 he could likely handle taking the worst of the wings whilst RJ or someone takes the PG.

Meanwhile, his passing ability is going to ensure he’s putting the others around him into good scoring positions which will make their jobs and development a lot easier. His passing and offensive IQ is off the charts compared to other players in this draft.

To be clear, that’s not a case to anoint him as a star. Lonzo is probably a solid comp for him in that regard.
Bensational
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 24,295
And1: 9,943
Joined: Apr 10, 2001
     

Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1073 » by Bensational » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:12 am

RookieStar wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Giddey is younger and better than Kuminga.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app


Thats ummm a surprising hot take.


How? Giddey’s skill level as a passer and facilitator is unquestionably better than Kuminga’s, Kuminga a significantly better scorer from inside, and they’re both poor shooters from distance right now.

A surprising hot take is setting Doncic as the bar for success for Giddey.
User avatar
RookieStar
RealGM
Posts: 11,637
And1: 2,572
Joined: Jul 01, 2009
 

Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1074 » by RookieStar » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:35 am

Bensational wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Giddey is younger and better than Kuminga.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app


Thats ummm a surprising hot take.


How? Giddey’s skill level as a passer and facilitator is unquestionably better than Kuminga’s, Kuminga a significantly better scorer from inside, and they’re both poor shooters from distance right now.

A surprising hot take is setting Doncic as the bar for success for Giddey.


Defense? Atheleticism?

TBH i dont like the two even for our CHI pick but I havr to admit they dont play the same.
Bensational
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 24,295
And1: 9,943
Joined: Apr 10, 2001
     

Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1075 » by Bensational » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:14 am

RookieStar wrote:
Bensational wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
Thats ummm a surprising hot take.


How? Giddey’s skill level as a passer and facilitator is unquestionably better than Kuminga’s, Kuminga a significantly better scorer from inside, and they’re both poor shooters from distance right now.

A surprising hot take is setting Doncic as the bar for success for Giddey.


Defense? Atheleticism?

TBH i dont like the two even for our CHI pick but I havr to admit they dont play the same.


Athleticism does nothing for you without skill. Highly skilled and lesser athletic players can do just fine. I’m not worried about defense from whatever position Giddey plays because we have Isaac, Bamba, Okeke and RJ to cover that.

Weren’t you asking for skilled and unathletic euro guys just last week? Giddey and Sengun are the two closest to that and you’re not a fan of either, lol.
User avatar
drsd
RealGM
Posts: 29,791
And1: 5,287
Joined: Mar 16, 2003
     

Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1076 » by drsd » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:28 am

Magic Mops wrote:I am in this forum for a few weeks and i must say this Pepe is really exhausting.



We love you Pepe; but love is exhausting.

Image
jezzerinho
Junior
Posts: 326
And1: 190
Joined: Jul 08, 2019
     

Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1077 » by jezzerinho » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:46 am

Pepe is a very knowledgeable poster who clearly loves basketball and has insights on Euro, college and NBA ball.

That said, i don't believe I've ever come across anyone, in any facet of my 50 years on this planet, who is so consistently negative. I don't think it's at all healthy - mentally speaking - to want to correct others and find flaw so exhaustively. I'm sure Pepe has plenty of constructive perspective to share if he wanted, but - sadly for him and for those on here - we only get to hear what everybody did wrong, is bad at, doesn't understand, will fail at, did fail at, can't help being, won't ever be..

Pepe, i hope you have other stuff in your life that brings out more positive emotions, because -paradoxically - basketball doesn't seem to be one of those things.

I would hate for you to leave and my comments are really made out of concern as much as anything else. But you are definitely exhausting!
User avatar
RookieStar
RealGM
Posts: 11,637
And1: 2,572
Joined: Jul 01, 2009
 

Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1078 » by RookieStar » Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:19 am

Bensational wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
Bensational wrote:
How? Giddey’s skill level as a passer and facilitator is unquestionably better than Kuminga’s, Kuminga a significantly better scorer from inside, and they’re both poor shooters from distance right now.

A surprising hot take is setting Doncic as the bar for success for Giddey.


Defense? Atheleticism?

TBH i dont like the two even for our CHI pick but I havr to admit they dont play the same.


Athleticism does nothing for you without skill. Highly skilled and lesser athletic players can do just fine. I’m not worried about defense from whatever position Giddey plays because we have Isaac, Bamba, Okeke and RJ to cover that.

Weren’t you asking for skilled and unathletic euro guys just last week? Giddey and Sengun are the two closest to that and you’re not a fan of either, lol.


First off.. its unathletic EURO. Giddey is from down under.LOL

Second i dont like the two but in terms of player.. I rank Barnes ahead of Sengun. Both non shooters, both big wing size but one is more athletic and better physical measurements for bball. Both have different skillset although both are for leading the team. However, even though I rank Barnes the player ahead, if we are forced to choose one of them with the CHI pick, illnpick Giddy.

P.S. isnt Sengun supposed to be athletic? Posters who like him are hyping up his blocks and all due to his athleticism.
User avatar
RookieStar
RealGM
Posts: 11,637
And1: 2,572
Joined: Jul 01, 2009
 

Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1079 » by RookieStar » Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:25 am

Bensational wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
Bensational wrote:
How? Giddey’s skill level as a passer and facilitator is unquestionably better than Kuminga’s, Kuminga a significantly better scorer from inside, and they’re both poor shooters from distance right now.

A surprising hot take is setting Doncic as the bar for success for Giddey.


Defense? Atheleticism?

TBH i dont like the two even for our CHI pick but I havr to admit they dont play the same.


Athleticism does nothing for you without skill. Highly skilled and lesser athletic players can do just fine. I’m not worried about defense from whatever position Giddey plays because we have Isaac, Bamba, Okeke and RJ to cover that.

Weren’t you asking for skilled and unathletic euro guys just last week? Giddey and Sengun are the two closest to that and you’re not a fan of either, lol.


forgot to add... have you watched the POs this year? Teams are attacking those who cant play defense. Players like Zingis, Bertans, Beverly, Kennard, Drummond, etc are being switched always and getting attacked. Can we really hide Giddey when teams do that?
Bensational
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 24,295
And1: 9,943
Joined: Apr 10, 2001
     

Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#1080 » by Bensational » Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:19 am

RookieStar wrote:
Bensational wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
Defense? Atheleticism?

TBH i dont like the two even for our CHI pick but I havr to admit they dont play the same.


Athleticism does nothing for you without skill. Highly skilled and lesser athletic players can do just fine. I’m not worried about defense from whatever position Giddey plays because we have Isaac, Bamba, Okeke and RJ to cover that.

Weren’t you asking for skilled and unathletic euro guys just last week? Giddey and Sengun are the two closest to that and you’re not a fan of either, lol.


First off.. its unathletic EURO. Giddey is from down under.LOL

Second i dont like the two but in terms of player.. I rank Barnes ahead of Sengun. Both non shooters, both big wing size but one is more athletic and better physical measurements for bball. Both have different skillset although both are for leading the team. However, even though I rank Barnes the player ahead, if we are forced to choose one of them with the CHI pick, illnpick Giddy.

P.S. isnt Sengun supposed to be athletic? Posters who like him are hyping up his blocks and all due to his athleticism.


Ummm, Giddey is white and all white Aussies are of European descent. We didn’t create a different race when we colonised this country, lol.

I can understand people preferring Barnes over Giddey for his defense, but they’ll be sacrificing a much higher level of playmaking by doing so.

Sengun is athletic enough, but his skill profile is the closest to Jokic out of anyone in this draft.

As far as playoffs go, points win games and defense is very much a matchup thing. I’m surprised you care about defense so much now, you didn’t seem to have a problem with Vuc being a complete sieve. And like I said, we’ve already got a solid amount of good defenders, what we don’t have are players who can create plays of any high degree.

Return to Orlando Magic