ImageImageImageImage

2020-2021 Regular Season Game 58: Orlando Magic (18-39) at Atlanta Hawks (31-26)

Moderators: Howard Mass, UCF, ChosenSavior, Knightro, SOUL, Def Swami, UCFJayBird

User avatar
drsd
RealGM
Posts: 29,596
And1: 5,211
Joined: Mar 16, 2003
     

Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 58: Orlando Magic (18-39) at Atlanta Hawks (31-26) 

Post#141 » by drsd » Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:37 pm

basketballRob wrote:
drsd wrote:Bamba goes 1-5 on 2 points in 19 minutes played. That equalled out a -20 in his plus/minus. Franks, Canndady, and Randle all had "better" stat lines. I am not sure coach Clifford will buy into Bamba early next season unless there is a transformation in his game over the off-season. RIght now Bamba is playing at a G-league level of quality.
We saw Fournier put up 1 or 2 points in 36 minutes before, and did we say let's send him to the G League? Bamba shot 4 3 pt. shots, normally 1 or 2 of those fall. Also we knew his offensive stats would go down when he started playing less minutes with Cole.


When Bamba averages 10ppg/6rpg we can start talking about off-nights. My question: how often does Bamba have an on-night?

He has only had one game this season with more than 10 rebounds.

He is averaging 1 FT attempt per game, which is a rate of 0.1 per minute played. He is shooting well below 50%. These are not competent numbers for a Center.

His TO to assist is above 1, which is awful. The only other Magicians with that are Hampton and Carter. ((Okeke's is 0.3, which is awesome)).

None of that is on coach. Bamba is playing poorly this season.

..
User avatar
drsd
RealGM
Posts: 29,596
And1: 5,211
Joined: Mar 16, 2003
     

Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 58: Orlando Magic (18-39) at Atlanta Hawks (31-26) 

Post#142 » by drsd » Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:37 pm

Bergmaniac wrote:Hampton as a main ballhandler is pretty painful to watch, but it's great for the tank.

Anyway, not much to say about this game. The starters were decent, WCJ again with a very solid game apart from rebounding, the bench was a disaster as expected. Cannady in particular looked so nervous and out of his depth.


His assist / TO is 1. YUCK.


..
User avatar
drsd
RealGM
Posts: 29,596
And1: 5,211
Joined: Mar 16, 2003
     

Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 58: Orlando Magic (18-39) at Atlanta Hawks (31-26) 

Post#143 » by drsd » Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:39 pm

tiderulz wrote:sadly, we cant win and maintain draft position, its all too close. tied for 3 with a bad Detroit team. bad OKC and Cleveland team's just 2 games behind us.


I am still gonna feel about about any given Loss, even though I intellectually accept the Magic has no business inning games.


..
basketballRob
RealGM
Posts: 13,495
And1: 5,508
Joined: May 05, 2014
     

Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 58: Orlando Magic (18-39) at Atlanta Hawks (31-26) 

Post#144 » by basketballRob » Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:51 pm

drsd wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
drsd wrote:Bamba goes 1-5 on 2 points in 19 minutes played. That equalled out a -20 in his plus/minus. Franks, Canndady, and Randle all had "better" stat lines. I am not sure coach Clifford will buy into Bamba early next season unless there is a transformation in his game over the off-season. RIght now Bamba is playing at a G-league level of quality.
We saw Fournier put up 1 or 2 points in 36 minutes before, and did we say let's send him to the G League? Bamba shot 4 3 pt. shots, normally 1 or 2 of those fall. Also we knew his offensive stats would go down when he started playing less minutes with Cole.


When Bamba averages 10ppg/6rpg we can start talking about off-nights. My question: how often does Bamba have an on-night?

He has only had one game this season with more than 10 rebounds.

He is averaging 1 FT attempt per game, which is a rate of 0.1 per minute played. He is shooting well below 50%. These are not competent numbers for a Center.

His TO to assist is above 1, which is awful. The only other Magicians with that are Hampton and Carter. ((Okeke's is 0.3, which is awesome)).

None of that is on coach. Bamba is playing poorly this season.

..
You do know he's averaging near 10 pts., and 6 rebs., this month in 16 mpg, in 9 games. One he only played 3 minutes.

Based on his rebound percentage 17.7%, he's the best rebounder on the team.

I really don't care what he averages, I just like seeing him getting experience.



Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
thelead
RealGM
Posts: 27,219
And1: 14,996
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
 

Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 58: Orlando Magic (18-39) at Atlanta Hawks (31-26) 

Post#145 » by thelead » Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:01 pm

drsd wrote:Bamba goes 1-5 on 2 points in 19 minutes played. That equalled out a -20 in his plus/minus. Franks, Canndady, and Randle all had "better" stat lines. I am not sure coach Clifford will buy into Bamba early next season unless there is a transformation in his game over the off-season. RIght now Bamba is playing at a G-league level of quality.

For the part that is his fault: he is way too comfortable with just shooting 3's and not establishing low post positioning for easy baskets. He's almost an automatic bucket if he catches the ball 5 feet or closer to the hoop. The coaching staff needs to address this.

For the part that is not his fault: he played with Randle (1 ast/1 TO) and RJ (1 ast/2 TOs) running the show. As a big man, you're not going to do much with that pair.
Image
User avatar
tiderulz
RealGM
Posts: 30,911
And1: 11,450
Joined: Jun 16, 2010
Location: Atlanta
 

Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 58: Orlando Magic (18-39) at Atlanta Hawks (31-26) 

Post#146 » by tiderulz » Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:54 pm

drsd wrote:
tiderulz wrote:sadly, we cant win and maintain draft position, its all too close. tied for 3 with a bad Detroit team. bad OKC and Cleveland team's just 2 games behind us.


I am still gonna feel about about any given Loss, even though I intellectually accept the Magic has no business inning games.


..

for this season, i wont feel bad about a loss. wins only hurt us in the big scheme of things. I like to see the playing time of the youngsters. Both good and bad. Identify the bad habits for the coaches to work on, identify the good things to build on. Identify if we have players with ability, or if we should trade them while they have value or "potential".
User avatar
drsd
RealGM
Posts: 29,596
And1: 5,211
Joined: Mar 16, 2003
     

Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 58: Orlando Magic (18-39) at Atlanta Hawks (31-26) 

Post#147 » by drsd » Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:49 pm

basketballRob wrote:I really don't care what he averages, I just like seeing him getting experience.


Here we agree.


..
User avatar
PrimeThyme
General Manager
Posts: 9,074
And1: 12,270
Joined: May 25, 2016
Location: Doak Campbell
 

Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 58: Orlando Magic (18-39) at Atlanta Hawks (31-26) 

Post#148 » by PrimeThyme » Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:02 pm

My favorite thing about WCJ so far is the edge he plays with out on the court. I expected him to be this quiet sort of finesse big after seeing some of his interviews and watching highlights, but that couldn't be further from the case. He's got a chip on his shoulder out there.

He's not afraid to get chippy down in the paint and finish with authority. That's a much-welcomed addition and I hope this team can adopt that identity.

Okeke/Isaac/WCJ is something I'm looking forward to seeing. The biggest question mark I have with it is health, which is a big one, but if they can finally stay healthy I think it has serious potential defensively.
Image
User avatar
Howard Mass
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 59,932
And1: 12,791
Joined: Feb 20, 2001
Location: Longwood, Florida
Contact:
       

Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 58: Orlando Magic (18-39) at Atlanta Hawks (31-26) 

Post#149 » by Howard Mass » Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:13 pm

tiderulz wrote:
Howard Mass wrote:
drsd wrote:
Howard: Are we the only two left rooting for a win?


..


I always cheer on the team.

The reality is they will lose a lot of games down the stretch. I do want a win every now and then while maintaining lottery position.

sadly, we cant win and maintain draft position, its all too close. tied for 3 with a bad Detroit team. bad OKC and Cleveland team's just 2 games behind us.


The crazy thing about The Lottery is it's more unpredictable with the new format.

Still, they do need to lose games so it's a double-edged sword. I'd mostly like not to have long losing streaks while maintaining position.
R.I.P. Dharam Raghubir (A.K.A. Magnumt)

:beer:
User avatar
tiderulz
RealGM
Posts: 30,911
And1: 11,450
Joined: Jun 16, 2010
Location: Atlanta
 

Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 58: Orlando Magic (18-39) at Atlanta Hawks (31-26) 

Post#150 » by tiderulz » Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:32 pm

Howard Mass wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
Howard Mass wrote:
I always cheer on the team.

The reality is they will lose a lot of games down the stretch. I do want a win every now and then while maintaining lottery position.

sadly, we cant win and maintain draft position, its all too close. tied for 3 with a bad Detroit team. bad OKC and Cleveland team's just 2 games behind us.


The crazy thing about The Lottery is it's more unpredictable with the new format.

Still, they do need to lose games so it's a double-edged sword. I'd mostly like not to have long losing streaks while maintaining position.

even with new odds, if we end 3rd, aren't we at least guaranteed 6th no matter what? and that would have 3 teams jump into 1-3. if we end at 4, worse we could be is 7th. and if the above cases happen, it could be a chance that is Chicago moving up so that would be our only pick. could you imagine going thru this season, losing finishing at 4th by 1 game and then having Chicago jump up and we possibly move to 6th?
User avatar
tiderulz
RealGM
Posts: 30,911
And1: 11,450
Joined: Jun 16, 2010
Location: Atlanta
 

Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 58: Orlando Magic (18-39) at Atlanta Hawks (31-26) 

Post#151 » by tiderulz » Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:37 pm

PrimeThyme wrote:My favorite thing about WCJ so far is the edge he plays with out on the court. I expected him to be this quiet sort of finesse big after seeing some of his interviews and watching highlights, but that couldn't be further from the case. He's got a chip on his shoulder out there.

He's not afraid to get chippy down in the paint and finish with authority. That's a much-welcomed addition and I hope this team can adopt that identity.

Okeke/Isaac/WCJ is something I'm looking forward to seeing. The biggest question mark I have with it is health, which is a big one, but if they can finally stay healthy I think it has serious potential defensively.

ive been very surprised with WCJ's play. Did Chicago coaches just not know how to use him? i know he was injured a lot, but either they didnt know how, or Clifford is running the offense thru him like he did Vuc. now that isnt a log term solution in my opinion, but it is showing WCJ to be better skilled than i thought.
User avatar
Howard Mass
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 59,932
And1: 12,791
Joined: Feb 20, 2001
Location: Longwood, Florida
Contact:
       

Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 58: Orlando Magic (18-39) at Atlanta Hawks (31-26) 

Post#152 » by Howard Mass » Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:25 pm

tiderulz wrote:
Howard Mass wrote:
tiderulz wrote:sadly, we cant win and maintain draft position, its all too close. tied for 3 with a bad Detroit team. bad OKC and Cleveland team's just 2 games behind us.


The crazy thing about The Lottery is it's more unpredictable with the new format.

Still, they do need to lose games so it's a double-edged sword. I'd mostly like not to have long losing streaks while maintaining position.

even with new odds, if we end 3rd, aren't we at least guaranteed 6th no matter what? and that would have 3 teams jump into 1-3. if we end at 4, worse we could be is 7th. and if the above cases happen, it could be a chance that is Chicago moving up so that would be our only pick. could you imagine going thru this season, losing finishing at 4th by 1 game and then having Chicago jump up and we possibly move to 6th?


Tiderulz,

It would suck.

It's all going to be the luck of the Lotto regardless in terms of getting a top-4 Pick as those are drawn. I do watch the Lotto Standings though and am very cautious of The Magic winning too much. You really think I want The Magic to go on a winning streak?

Getting sole 3rd would be nice and would prefer it but it doesn't guarantee a Top-4 Pick and I want that.

If Chicago jumped Orlando, that would really tick us all off.

In the end, no matter how bad The Magic are, it's all going to be about luck even if they have the worst record.
R.I.P. Dharam Raghubir (A.K.A. Magnumt)

:beer:
User avatar
Xatticus
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,841
And1: 5,467
Joined: Feb 18, 2016
Location: the land of the blind
         

Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 58: Orlando Magic (18-39) at Atlanta Hawks (31-26) 

Post#153 » by Xatticus » Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:24 am

drsd wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
drsd wrote:Bamba goes 1-5 on 2 points in 19 minutes played. That equalled out a -20 in his plus/minus. Franks, Canndady, and Randle all had "better" stat lines. I am not sure coach Clifford will buy into Bamba early next season unless there is a transformation in his game over the off-season. RIght now Bamba is playing at a G-league level of quality.
We saw Fournier put up 1 or 2 points in 36 minutes before, and did we say let's send him to the G League? Bamba shot 4 3 pt. shots, normally 1 or 2 of those fall. Also we knew his offensive stats would go down when he started playing less minutes with Cole.


When Bamba averages 10ppg/6rpg we can start talking about off-nights. My question: how often does Bamba have an on-night?

He has only had one game this season with more than 10 rebounds.

He is averaging 1 FT attempt per game, which is a rate of 0.1 per minute played. He is shooting well below 50%. These are not competent numbers for a Center.

His TO to assist is above 1, which is awful. The only other Magicians with that are Hampton and Carter. ((Okeke's is 0.3, which is awesome)).

None of that is on coach. Bamba is playing poorly this season.

..


This is such a silly argument. He has the highest rebound rate on the team. I'm not saying he is a good rebounder, because that's an oversimplification of the argument, but it's nonsensical to argue that his rebound totals demonstrate a lack of effort when they obviously demonstrate a lack of minutes. Further, the lack of a statistical outlier would be an indication of consistency as opposed to inconsistency.
"Xatticus has always been, in my humble opinion best poster here. Should write articles or something."
-pepe1991
User avatar
Xatticus
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,841
And1: 5,467
Joined: Feb 18, 2016
Location: the land of the blind
         

Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 58: Orlando Magic (18-39) at Atlanta Hawks (31-26) 

Post#154 » by Xatticus » Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:28 am

Howard Mass wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
Howard Mass wrote:
I always cheer on the team.

The reality is they will lose a lot of games down the stretch. I do want a win every now and then while maintaining lottery position.

sadly, we cant win and maintain draft position, its all too close. tied for 3 with a bad Detroit team. bad OKC and Cleveland team's just 2 games behind us.


The crazy thing about The Lottery is it's more unpredictable with the new format.

Still, they do need to lose games so it's a double-edged sword. I'd mostly like not to have long losing streaks while maintaining position.


I'm really not that bothered by wins as long as they come for the right reasons. I don't think losing should be prioritized right now at the expense of player development. If we are winning games because we are riding vets that won't be here next year, then I have an issue with that.
"Xatticus has always been, in my humble opinion best poster here. Should write articles or something."
-pepe1991
User avatar
drsd
RealGM
Posts: 29,596
And1: 5,211
Joined: Mar 16, 2003
     

Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 58: Orlando Magic (18-39) at Atlanta Hawks (31-26) 

Post#155 » by drsd » Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:42 am

Xatticus wrote:This is such a silly argument. He has the highest rebound rate on the team. I'm not saying he is a good rebounder, because that's an oversimplification of the argument, but it's nonsensical to argue that his rebound totals demonstrate a lack of effort when they obviously demonstrate a lack of minutes. Further, the lack of a statistical outlier would be an indication of consistency as opposed to inconsistency.


I felt that my arguments were about his low FT rate and high TO rate.

:)



..
basketballRob
RealGM
Posts: 13,495
And1: 5,508
Joined: May 05, 2014
     

Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 58: Orlando Magic (18-39) at Atlanta Hawks (31-26) 

Post#156 » by basketballRob » Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:30 am

drsd wrote:
Xatticus wrote:This is such a silly argument. He has the highest rebound rate on the team. I'm not saying he is a good rebounder, because that's an oversimplification of the argument, but it's nonsensical to argue that his rebound totals demonstrate a lack of effort when they obviously demonstrate a lack of minutes. Further, the lack of a statistical outlier would be an indication of consistency as opposed to inconsistency.


I felt that my arguments were about his low FT rate and high TO rate.

:)



..
He doesn't make very many entry passes or from out of the box. I think he needs to post up more, but again you need someone who can get you the pass.

His FTR is much higher than Vuc ever posted. Surprisingly his career average is 152, Mo's is 198. Both really low numbers. Wendell Carter's career FTR is 388. Maybe that's part of the reason the eye test says WCJ is more capable than the other two at playing winning basketball.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app
pepe1991
RealGM
Posts: 14,152
And1: 11,629
Joined: Jan 10, 2016
   

Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 58: Orlando Magic (18-39) at Atlanta Hawks (31-26) 

Post#157 » by pepe1991 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:10 pm

drsd wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
drsd wrote:Bamba goes 1-5 on 2 points in 19 minutes played. That equalled out a -20 in his plus/minus. Franks, Canndady, and Randle all had "better" stat lines. I am not sure coach Clifford will buy into Bamba early next season unless there is a transformation in his game over the off-season. RIght now Bamba is playing at a G-league level of quality.
We saw Fournier put up 1 or 2 points in 36 minutes before, and did we say let's send him to the G League? Bamba shot 4 3 pt. shots, normally 1 or 2 of those fall. Also we knew his offensive stats would go down when he started playing less minutes with Cole.


When Bamba averages 10ppg/6rpg we can start talking about off-nights. My question: how often does Bamba have an on-night?

He has only had one game this season with more than 10 rebounds.

He is averaging 1 FT attempt per game, which is a rate of 0.1 per minute played. He is shooting well below 50%. These are not competent numbers for a Center.

His TO to assist is above 1, which is awful. The only other Magicians with that are Hampton and Carter. ((Okeke's is 0.3, which is awesome)).

None of that is on coach. Bamba is playing poorly this season.

..



Entire nba career*

6th overall pick 3 years later:

5,9 ppg, 54% TS, negative BPM, more turnovers than assists, almost equal amount of fouls per game ( 1,7) to shots made ( 2,4) .
Bamba has been bust in every aspect of that word.

Hammond drafted basically same player twice and both times took collosal L.
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
User avatar
KillMonger
RealGM
Posts: 12,145
And1: 5,862
Joined: Oct 13, 2012
     

Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 58: Orlando Magic (18-39) at Atlanta Hawks (31-26) 

Post#158 » by KillMonger » Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:15 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
drsd wrote:
basketballRob wrote:We saw Fournier put up 1 or 2 points in 36 minutes before, and did we say let's send him to the G League? Bamba shot 4 3 pt. shots, normally 1 or 2 of those fall. Also we knew his offensive stats would go down when he started playing less minutes with Cole.


When Bamba averages 10ppg/6rpg we can start talking about off-nights. My question: how often does Bamba have an on-night?

He has only had one game this season with more than 10 rebounds.

He is averaging 1 FT attempt per game, which is a rate of 0.1 per minute played. He is shooting well below 50%. These are not competent numbers for a Center.

His TO to assist is above 1, which is awful. The only other Magicians with that are Hampton and Carter. ((Okeke's is 0.3, which is awesome)).

None of that is on coach. Bamba is playing poorly this season.

..



Entire nba career*

6th overall pick 3 years later:

5,9 ppg, 54% TS, negative BPM, more turnovers than assists, almost equal amount of fouls per game ( 1,7) to shots made ( 2,4) .
Bamba has been bust in every aspect of that word.

Hammond drafted basically same player twice and both times took collosal L.

which player are you referring to?
Image

FREE MO BAMBA......R.I.P DMX ....... FREE MO BAMBA......R.I.P DMX
basketballRob
RealGM
Posts: 13,495
And1: 5,508
Joined: May 05, 2014
     

Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 58: Orlando Magic (18-39) at Atlanta Hawks (31-26) 

Post#159 » by basketballRob » Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:18 pm

KillMonger wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
drsd wrote:
When Bamba averages 10ppg/6rpg we can start talking about off-nights. My question: how often does Bamba have an on-night?

He has only had one game this season with more than 10 rebounds.

He is averaging 1 FT attempt per game, which is a rate of 0.1 per minute played. He is shooting well below 50%. These are not competent numbers for a Center.

His TO to assist is above 1, which is awful. The only other Magicians with that are Hampton and Carter. ((Okeke's is 0.3, which is awesome)).

None of that is on coach. Bamba is playing poorly this season.

..



Entire nba career*

6th overall pick 3 years later:

5,9 ppg, 54% TS, negative BPM, more turnovers than assists, almost equal amount of fouls per game ( 1,7) to shots made ( 2,4) .
Bamba has been bust in every aspect of that word.

Hammond drafted basically same player twice and both times took collosal L.

which player are you referring to?
He's referring to our starting center tonight. Mo Bamba.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app
pepe1991
RealGM
Posts: 14,152
And1: 11,629
Joined: Jan 10, 2016
   

Re: 2020-2021 Regular Season Game 58: Orlando Magic (18-39) at Atlanta Hawks (31-26) 

Post#160 » by pepe1991 » Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:58 am

KillMonger wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
drsd wrote:
When Bamba averages 10ppg/6rpg we can start talking about off-nights. My question: how often does Bamba have an on-night?

He has only had one game this season with more than 10 rebounds.

He is averaging 1 FT attempt per game, which is a rate of 0.1 per minute played. He is shooting well below 50%. These are not competent numbers for a Center.

His TO to assist is above 1, which is awful. The only other Magicians with that are Hampton and Carter. ((Okeke's is 0.3, which is awesome)).

None of that is on coach. Bamba is playing poorly this season.

..



Entire nba career*

6th overall pick 3 years later:

5,9 ppg, 54% TS, negative BPM, more turnovers than assists, almost equal amount of fouls per game ( 1,7) to shots made ( 2,4) .
Bamba has been bust in every aspect of that word.

Hammond drafted basically same player twice and both times took collosal L.

which player are you referring to?


mo
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.

Return to Orlando Magic